The Mayweather vs Pacquiao Debate

First topic message reminder :

It is an issue that polarises the sport, and get the most headlines. It is because the are opposites in the the ring and out.

Inside the ring Mayweather is a defensive fighter, safety first, whilst Manny is an attacking fighting that brings the excitement. Outside the ring Manny is well liked, humble happy and at peace, whilst Mayweather seems angry brash, arrogant, mentally troubled and problems with the law.

It is no surprise since they seem to be polar opposites that they split opinion.

In this thread I would like to discuss how there careers match up and who would win should they eventually face each other in the ring.

Calm down Balti, you know the admin team will look to pounce given the chance, ignore him and move on

D4thincarnation wrote:No surprise there then

D4 I have been following this thread closely. You are sticking just inside the site rules; however I am telling you to STOP with the above type of comments right now. You may mean this as a tongue in cheek gesture...but it appears to be a WUM attempt and a desperate one at that.

People are stating quite clearly that they no longer wish to see these tired discussions and so you are retaliating in this style to spark a reaction.

Please refrain from insulting other users of the board.

I make the same statement to EVERYONE on this section of the forum. The insults need to stop NOW. These boards are here for debate and banter...but this section is quickly descending in to a place where people just come to call each other names. The Admin team have stepped back to allow you to try and sort it out for yourselves...however if this trend of name calling and petty nonsense continues we will be forced to take action on ALL of those that partake in such activities.

It is a shame when these comments need to be made. This is the most active section on the board with some seriously knowledgeable posters and some fantastic debates. Why does there seem to be this need to constantly slip to childish behaviour?

Please, for the sake of everyone, take a step back and think before you respond to something. If you have an issue with others, please just use the predefined methods for drawing attention to them and they WILL be looked in to.

DT.

My ten bob's worth, for what it's worth:

I don't feel that either fighter is ducking the other. Floyd obviously sees Pacquiao as a major threat, yet also doesn't believe that threat is an honest one - he feels that Manny has benefitted from PED use and that the sport, the media and majority of boxing fans are complicit in his foul play due to the Filipino's immense popularity.

Pacquiao is keen to fight Floyd yet is reluctant to take stringent doping tests which would prove, without doubt, that Mayweather's accusations are scurrulous.

Bob Arum isn't as keen to make the fight at this precise juncture as he knows he can make millions with or without Floyd and that Manny is pretty untouchable against anyone else at or around 147 lbs. He also knows that Floyd could halt the gravy train whilst taking gloating to another level.

I feel that if Manny were to agree to stringent testing, Floyd would have no other reason to turn down the fight. There'd be no more arguing over who was ducking the other - and I don't believe Floyd's ego would allow him to turn down the fight under those conditions. It would also benefit the sport immensely and brush away the rumour mongering with a clean broom.

If the two were to fight in the very near future and tested accordingly, I'd side with Floyd to box his way to a tepid yet clear points victory. I don't believe it would be a great fight - merely a great event.

I would, nevertheless, be pulling for Pacquiao.

Good to see you haz. Hope you enjoy the new606.

I feel your post summarises things perfectly.

Balti - you are incorrigible. That was one of the best-written paragraphs I have read on 606. Also entirely against house rules. So deleted.

D4 - your post is likewise against house rules. Further posts WILL RESULT IN CENSURE.

Hello mate, good to see some of the old guard again - some good discussion going on in these parts!

oxring wrote:Good to see you haz. Hope you enjoy the new606.

I feel your post summarises things perfectly.

Balti - you are incorrigible. That was one of the best-written paragraphs I have read on 606. Also entirely against house rules. So deleted.

D4 - your post is likewise against house rules. Further posts WILL RESULT IN CENSURE.

When is acceptable to use this emoticon ?

oxring wrote:Good to see you haz. Hope you enjoy the new606.

I feel your post summarises things perfectly.

Balti - you are incorrigible. That was one of the best-written paragraphs I have read on 606. Also entirely against house rules. So deleted.

D4 - your post is likewise against house rules. Further posts WILL RESULT IN CENSURE.

I was quite irate until I read that. Touche. I'm off to take a breather.

hazharrison: If the two were to fight in the very near future and tested accordingly, I'd side with Floyd to box his way to a tepid yet clear points victory. I don't believe it would be a great fight - merely a great event.
--------

I agree and have always maintained the same. For all the clamour for this fight I believe that it would start off good and fizzle into an anti climax. I think floyd beats manny by dictating the pace, frustrating him with quick clean counters and a bit of spoiling and does enough to a win a narrow but unanimous decision. Stylistically floyd is all wrong for manny. Manny hasn't had a stylistic challenge since Marquez, and floyd does everything jmm does but quicker, slicker, more accurately and smarter. Plus he's bigger. A controlled UD win may cement floyds atg status, but this is a fight that would be remembered for the politics and the occasion rather than the in-ring excitement. Two great fighters, but not a good blend of styles.

They're also both getting on a bit to make for a truly great fight. Don't recall a superfight between 30 somethings resulting in a pulsating contest.

It could be Whitaker-Chavez all over again.

D4thincarnation wrote:

oxring wrote:Good to see you haz. Hope you enjoy the new606.

I feel your post summarises things perfectly.

Balti - you are incorrigible. That was one of the best-written paragraphs I have read on 606. Also entirely against house rules. So deleted.

D4 - your post is likewise against house rules. Further posts WILL RESULT IN CENSURE.

When is acceptable to use this emoticon ?

I'll answer your question better by saying - when is NOT acceptable to use emoticon - and the simple answer - is whenever you're abusing another poster via the medium of smiley.

Baltimora - you and coxy are peas in a pod with D4, you shouldn't get so wound up mate. Look at the way I owned him earlier this thread by presenting him with cold hard facts instead of taking his bait. He left the thread and said he'd return later with his side of the events but he never did, because he knew he couldn't prove me wrong or get under my skin. I'm too cool for him, which is why I own him everytime I can be bothered to engage. You should take the same approach, play it cool, if you get wound up and start effing and blinding and needing to take breathers you're a) in danger of getting banned and b) playing into his hands. It's only a forum mate it's not worth the stress!

Balti,

I have sent you a PM, i would suggest reading it.

Thanks,

KB

Sugar Boy Sweetie


Ok lets start at the beginning.


Manny steps up to lightweight and demolishes Diaz, the WBC champ, with a masterclass performance ending the fight with a brutal KO to put Diaz out of his misery.

After this fight, Manny is asked, what is next? He hints a few more fights at lightweight before moving up and taking on Hatton at 140lbs, he believes that is his limit and that will be his crowning achievement and maybe his final fight.

Manny has options at light-weight a unification match-up or even a 3rd fight with Marquez who followed him up to lightweight.

But Oscar comes in with a huge offer probably over 3 times what Manny has earned in any previous fight.

Not only the money but the coverage Manny would get from fighting Oscar would take Manny to the next level.

One catch though the fight had to be at 147lbs, could Manny compete at that weight, most people called this a miss-match.

Oscar figure Manny like to fight toe to toe and with his chin and punch power he would be a great victory over the p4p no1 to reitre on.

Roach having trained Oscar for Mayweather a year earlier, noticed flaws in Oscars game. He could not throw the right hand anymore, lacked power and timing, and with age he got flat footed and slower.

Roach was so convinced that Manny would beat Oscar because of these factors he would forgo his fee if Manny loss, which about $2 million I think.

Manny put on a masterclass again with the straight left, great body and head movement, the in and out with the right hook to boot.

Oscar was embarrassed and was getting beaten up, he quit on his stool at the end of the 8th with the ref and doctor and cornerman all agreeing it was the right option.

After the fight he was asked what was he next plans, Arum was in the ring with him and Roach and they all agreed that Hatton was there next target and they intended for Manny to go down to 140lbs. Manny only weigh in at 142lbs and could not compete at the weight, and when asked maybe about a fight with Cotto, Manny laughed and Arum said no way Cotto was too big.

The fight may have been at welter but Manny was not welter.

Now this is where Mosley went to see Roach and asked him for a fight with Manny before the Hatton fight. The Hatton fight had already had been signed and Pacquiao was no welter but Mosley still wanted to fight him, why because that is where Mosley could make the most money.

Roach asked him if he could make 142lbs and Mosley said no.

At this time also Mayweather put in a written offer through Golden Boy to fight Mayweather, unlike Pacquiao Floyd had not had a fight lined up.

As we know Floyd turned down the chance to face Mosley to fight Marquez, who jumped 3 weights in a year for the fight, which he announced the day before Pacquiao fought Hatton.

Roach said if he would have waited a day later he could have negotiation with Manny for a fight.
A deliberate move by Mayweather?

Mosley was asked about fighting Pacquiao at catchweight by a TV station before the Hatton fight and Mosley was not interested in that fight.

Balti,

I have replied to you.

Thanks,

KB

So did Floyd ducked Mosley in favour of fighting Marquez?

Shane put an offer in to fight Floyd, Floyd turned it down and picked up the phone and called Marquez up so he could fight him. When asked when he turned Mosley down he said it was because Mosley was not a PPV attraction and Marquez was. If you look at the PPV figure for each fighter I think you will find this to be false. So Floyd chooses not to fight the welterweight champ and instead fights the lightweight champ at welterweight and in signing it the day before the Pacquiao vs Hatton fight he takes himself out of the running to be Pacquiao's next opponent.


Manny gets his shot at the no.1 light-welter in the world in Hatton a fight he has been looking forward to for some time.

This was meant to be a real test for Manny but Manny blew Hatton away in 2 rounds knocking him down 3 times in the process. The right hook counter worked like a charm, with Hatton lead left hook being so telegraphed. Hatton defence was nowhere and was getting hit with everything and with 10 seconds left in the 2nd round Pacquiao threw everything at Hatton in one punch and put him out cold for 5 minutes, the ref did not even start the count.

Mosley was ringside watching and he was stunned by the performance, lost for words.

Pacquiao only weighed in at 138lbs, so well of the welterweight limit but because the marquee names were at welter Roach said that Manny could have a fight there against Mosley or Cotto at a catchweight of 143/144lbs, having previously said that 140lbs was Manny's limit.

Floyd took himself out of the picture with the Marquez fight, Mosley said no, and Cotto who had just beaten Clottey by SD was interested and began negotiations.

Cotto negotiated the fight up to 145lbs a 1lbs lighter than he weighed in at for Clottey.

Mosley then comes out and says he will fight Pacquiao at a 143/144lbs now, a bit too late now though, but he is just trying to raise his profile for a fight.

Mosley does sign to face Clottey but pulls out of that fight on the advice of Nazim, saying that Clottey is a risky fight with little reward.

Revisionism at its finest. No further comment required. Enjoy.

So Mosley walking in at the wild card asking Roach for a fight with Manny at 147lbs after Roach, Manny and Arum thought that 140lbs was his limit and with the fight with Hatton being lined up.

It is equivalent of Martinez having a fight with Pirog and Ward coming down to his gym and asking for a fight and his trainer saying can you make it 165lbs, Ward saying no and walking away. Is that ducking?

After Hatton Roach gave Mosley the same offer as Cotto, Cotto took it Mosley said no. Manny had already had gone from superfeather to light-welter in less than a year and a half and now he was, it is not surprising Roach wanted a fight at a catchweight on route to welter because of the the speed he was going up the weights.


So because Roach turned down Mosley demands where Pacquiao already had a fight on at the weight bellow where Mosley was asking about and Mosley would not accept a compromise, this is considered a duck by Pacquiao.

Didn't SSM have a fight with Berto lined up only for the quake to end matters.

So if Team Roach turns down another offer its ok. If Floyd turns down an offer its ducking? Am I on the right track here?

So Pacquiao fights Cotto and puts on a master class performance, putting down Cotto twice and stopping him in the 12th.

After the fight Pacquiao makes his intention clear that he want to fight Mayweather. And goes on the record saying he wants the fight.


Mayweather come out with a TV interview claiming Pacquiao would be an easy fight for him and if Pacquiao want the fight all he has to do is asked, and thats exactly what Pacquiao does.

Mayweather very carefully never says he wants to fight Pacquiao.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_eJOUjiA8c

Mayweather is very disrespectful of Pacquiao's skills calling one dimensional.

lol Floyd even says Pacquiao is saying he is going on vacation as an excuse.

As you can see Floyd tactic is to say Pacquiao is not good enough to face him, no mention of him being too good so Floyd is suspicious of why is he so good.

So that was Floyd stance after the Cotto fight, then negotiations began in early December for a fight March 13th after Pacquiao publicly called Floyd out, no response publicly from Floyd though.

Answer my question please.

D4 we don't need a history of mannys career peppered with glorification of a "masterclass" against a limited fighter like Diaz coupled with sly digs about floyd 'ducking' Mosley to face Marquez. That was acknowledged as a tune up, are you suggesting floyd should have fought Mosley with 21 months ring rust when you've been so vocal about the 17 months Mosley had? And he fought mostly in his next fight so no ducking done. Once again you are playing with the truth to suit you own argument and getting your digs in at the same time. As a consequence no-one on here can take your opinion seriously on this matter.

And we don't need to go all the way back to '08 so you can smother mannys every move in superlatives, the point I made was about the process of the original negotiations from which manny walked away, that was all.

In the negotiations the gloves sized were agreed upon, the ring size, the venue, the pot, everything was agreed upon. Still no word from Floyd about blood tests.

Roach and Manny were worried about Floyd not hounoring the weight agreement just as he did with Marquez and only did it because of the tuppence of a fine he had to pay to coming in over the limit.

Floyd had gotten bigger in his retirement and had refused to get on the ring scales against Marquez. Roach did not want Mayweather to come in over the 147lbs limit and and just pay Pacquiao a token amount. So they put in a clause saying every pound Mayweather comes in over he has to pay $10m.

This is when Floyd first mentions the blood testing, and he has said "they had a clause so he wanted a clause too.

azania wrote:Didn't SSM have a fight with Berto lined up only for the quake to end matters.

Yes

He also had a fight with Clottey in November planned too but pulled out of that fight.

azania wrote:So if Team Roach turns down another offer its ok. If Floyd turns down an offer its ducking? Am I on the right track here?

Many was fighting a light-welter at the time, Roach offer Mosley a compromise but Mosley didn't want it. Floyd and a firm concrete offer from Mosley and Mayweather turned it down, saying Mosley was not a PPV attraction and that Marquez was.

Mayweather vs Marquez 1m PPV including cinema and bar buys
Mayweather vs Mosley 1.4m PPV

So what was the real reason Floyd?

D4thincarnation wrote:In the negotiations the gloves sized were agreed upon, the ring size, the venue, the pot, everything was agreed upon. Still no word from Floyd about blood tests.

Roach and Manny were worried about Floyd not hounoring the weight agreement just as he did with Marquez and only did it because of the tuppence of a fine he had to pay to coming in over the limit.

Floyd had gotten bigger in his retirement and had refused to get on the ring scales against Marquez. Roach did not want Mayweather to come in over the 147lbs limit and and just pay Pacquiao a token amount. So they put in a clause saying every pound Mayweather comes in over he has to pay $10m.

This is when Floyd first mentions the blood testing, and he has said "they had a clause so he wanted a clause too.

Floyd was fined $1m per pound against Marquez.

So Manny can put all the clauses he wants....no probs. When Floyd puts in his clause which is fair seeing as he would have to go thru the same process as manny its ducking? If floyd asked manny to take tests and he not to, then i can see manny's POV. In this instance it is clear to all that Manny ducked out of the tests either because he was juicing or because he was ducking. Which is it?

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:So if Team Roach turns down another offer its ok. If Floyd turns down an offer its ducking? Am I on the right track here?

Many was fighting a light-welter at the time, Roach offer Mosley a compromise but Mosley didn't want it. Floyd and a firm concrete offer from Mosley and Mayweather turned it down, saying Mosley was not a PPV attraction and that Marquez was.

Mayweather vs Marquez 1m PPV including cinema and bar buys
Mayweather vs Mosley 1.4m PPV

So what was the real reason Floyd?

What weight did Manny fight Oscar? Welterweight or below? So in short Manny wanted to fight 2 weight drained fighters in a row. Do you know what the effects of weight draining is to a boxer?

Did Floyd fight SSM after SSM got into the ring after the JMM beat-down.

Sorry D4 Floyd has sold more PPVs that Manny

Ok back to the story :yawn:

Now everybody on the old 606 were saying the fight is good as done and will happen, but I always had my doubts because of Floyd's previous record.

Pacquiao agree to the blood test, to take place at the beginning of the press tour, 30 day before the fight and after the fight.

We all thought this would be a good compromise at the start.

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:So if Team Roach turns down another offer its ok. If Floyd turns down an offer its ducking? Am I on the right track here?

Many was fighting a light-welter at the time, Roach offer Mosley a compromise but Mosley didn't want it. Floyd and a firm concrete offer from Mosley and Mayweather turned it down, saying Mosley was not a PPV attraction and that Marquez was.

Mayweather vs Marquez 1m PPV including cinema and bar buys
Mayweather vs Mosley 1.4m PPV

So what was the real reason Floyd?

What weight did Manny fight Oscar? Welterweight or below? So in short Manny wanted to fight 2 weight drained fighters in a row. Do you know what the effects of weight draining is to a boxer?

Did Floyd fight SSM after SSM got into the ring after the JMM beat-down.

Sorry D4 Floyd has sold more PPVs that Manny

142lbs

D4thincarnation wrote:Ok back to the story :yawn:

Now everybody on the old 606 were saying the fight is good as done and will happen, but I always had my doubts because of Floyd's previous record.

Pacquiao agree to the blood test, to take place at the beginning of the press tour, 30 day before the fight and after the fight.
We all thought this would be a good compromise at the start.

Which fight are you referring to? The first called off attempt? If so, that is a flat out lie.

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:So if Team Roach turns down another offer its ok. If Floyd turns down an offer its ducking? Am I on the right track here?

Many was fighting a light-welter at the time, Roach offer Mosley a compromise but Mosley didn't want it. Floyd and a firm concrete offer from Mosley and Mayweather turned it down, saying Mosley was not a PPV attraction and that Marquez was.

Mayweather vs Marquez 1m PPV including cinema and bar buys
Mayweather vs Mosley 1.4m PPV

So what was the real reason Floyd?

What weight did Manny fight Oscar? Welterweight or below? So in short Manny wanted to fight 2 weight drained fighters in a row. Do you know what the effects of weight draining is to a boxer?

Did Floyd fight SSM after SSM got into the ring after the JMM beat-down.

Sorry D4 Floyd has sold more PPVs that Manny

142lbs

So he came in at welterweight?

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:In the negotiations the gloves sized were agreed upon, the ring size, the venue, the pot, everything was agreed upon. Still no word from Floyd about blood tests.

Roach and Manny were worried about Floyd not hounoring the weight agreement just as he did with Marquez and only did it because of the tuppence of a fine he had to pay to coming in over the limit.

Floyd had gotten bigger in his retirement and had refused to get on the ring scales against Marquez. Roach did not want Mayweather to come in over the 147lbs limit and and just pay Pacquiao a token amount. So they put in a clause saying every pound Mayweather comes in over he has to pay $10m.

This is when Floyd first mentions the blood testing, and he has said "they had a clause so he wanted a clause too.

Floyd was fined $1m per pound against Marquez.

So Manny can put all the clauses he wants....no probs. When Floyd puts in his clause which is fair seeing as he would have to go thru the same process as manny its ducking? If floyd asked manny to take tests and he not to, then i can see manny's POV. In this instance it is clear to all that Manny ducked out of the tests either because he was juicing or because he was ducking. Which is it?

So what is it, is Floyd saying Manny is an easy fight and he is not good enough to face him, or he is too good and must be using PEDs, he can't have it both ways.

Are you debating with yourself here? Your response bears little correlation to my questions. Try again. Manny put in clauses. Floyd put in clauses. Manny walked away from Floyd's clause. Floyd is accused of ducking because Manny cant agree to his clause? Strange logic you employ there mate.

Now wanna try answering my question? Not the question you hoped I asked, but the actual question I asked.

azania wrote:Are you debating with yourself here? Your response bears little correlation to my questions. Try again. Manny put in clauses. Floyd put in clauses. Manny walked away from Floyd's clause. Floyd is accused of ducking because Manny cant agree to his clause? Strange logic you employ there mate.

Now wanna try answering my question? Not the question you hoped I asked, but the actual question I asked.

Was trying to address Sugar boy's question but it is a long winded affair.

Manny clause was valid as Floyd had shown no respect for Marquez or boxing how he came in over an agreed limit and paid some like $500k.

But the main problem was that Floyd never had any intention making weight and wanted to come in at 147lbs as he said he would even though he had signed a contract with Marquez for 144lbs.

Floyd's clause, what does that have do with anything, I though it was an easy fight Floyd and Manny is nothing special.

But the main problem was that Floyd never had any intention making weight and wanted to come in at 147lbs as he said he would even though he had signed a contract with Marquez for 144lbs.
-------------------------

Incorrect actually, he signed for a Welterweight fight with stipulations of £1mil for every pound he weighed over 144lb, you can only make a fight at the full limit of a division or an over the weight fight where weight isn't important. You stipulate in contracts penalties if weighing over a certain amount but you cannot force someone to weigh within a catchweight.

imperialghosty wrote:But the main problem was that Floyd never had any intention making weight and wanted to come in at 147lbs as he said he would even though he had signed a contract with Marquez for 144lbs.
-------------------------

Incorrect actually, he signed for a Welterweight fight with stipulations of £1mil for every pound he weighed over 144lb, you can only make a fight at the full limit of a division or an over the weight fight where weight isn't important. You stipulate in contracts penalties if weighing over a certain amount but you cannot force someone to weigh within a catchweight.

He had an agreement with Marquez, the guy has no honour or respect, for welching on his agreement.

D4 - you're totally blabbering on here to no constructive end.

The facts are that negotiations happened, manny put in a host of demands which floyd accepted, floyd made a demand that they both undergo random testing and manny refused. He then refused a compromise offer of 14 days - why would he refuse that if he wanted the fight? He then walked away and fought clottey. 6 months later he made a public deadline for floyd to agree the same stipulations that manny previously refused, ie 50/50 and 14 day cut off.

That is the scenario I presented to you last week.

Your only possible argument is that floyd would have "known" manny would refuse, and his pre-empting of this was a very cunning way of ducking the fight, which is total far fetched nonsense.

Re-counting mannys career from Marquez II onwards is irrelevant to this point and simply a diversionary tactic for you to distract from the fact that you have no logical arguement to the point, other than the crystal ball theory, which simply doesnt wash.

You have no winning arguement here, everyone can see that.

Sweetie is a wally..fancy offering constructive arguments and logic to this guy..

It was a 147lb fight D4 with monetary stipulations, he is well within his rights to weigh anything upto 147lbs if he's willing to pay.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:D4 - you're totally blabbering on here to no constructive end.

The facts are that negotiations happened, manny put in a host of demands which floyd accepted, floyd made a demand that they both undergo random testing and manny refused. He then refused a compromise offer of 14 days - why would he refuse that if he wanted the fight? He then walked away and fought clottey. 6 months later he made a public deadline for floyd to agree the same stipulations that manny previously refused, ie 50/50 and 14 day cut off.

That is the scenario I presented to you last week.

Your only possible argument is that floyd would have "known" manny would refuse, and his pre-empting of this was a very cunning way of ducking the fight, which is total far fetched nonsense.

Re-counting mannys career from Marquez II onwards is irrelevant to this point and simply a diversionary tactic for you to distract from the fact that you have no logical arguement to the point, other than the crystal ball theory, which simply doesnt wash.

You have no winning arguement here, everyone can see that.

Not at all Manny did not put in a host of demands.

This falsehood about Floyd agreeing to Manny's gloves, what a load of rubbish, Floyd wanted 8oz and so did Manny.

There was and agreement, Manny only request was that the weight penalties for Floyd as he proved he cannot be trusted over this matter.

And it was then and only the when blood testing was brought into the equation.

This is your problem, unless you were at negotiations you can possibly know what order demands were made, fact of the matter is you know no better than the average person so stop making out you do.

Can't believe i'm wasting my time trying to talk logically to you

imperialghosty wrote:It was a 147lb fight D4 with monetary stipulations, he is well within his rights to weigh anything upto 147lbs if he's willing to pay.

Not at all, Floyd's team approach Marquez for a fight, even when Mosley had an offer turned down. Marquez wanted the fight at 140lbs as he said that was the most he can move up to but Mayweather wanted 147lbs. They made a compromise to have it at 144lbs.

Mayweather never had any intention of sticking to his word and that why Roach felt the need for that $10m stipulation.

There is no 144lb division so your opinion is futile

imperialghosty wrote:This is your problem, unless you were at negotiations you can possibly know what order demands were made, fact of the matter is you know no better than the average person so stop making out you do.

Can't believe i'm wasting my time trying to talk logically to you

All of this was released and about at the time. There interview where Marquez has given saying the same thing.

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:D4 - you're totally blabbering on here to no constructive end.

The facts are that negotiations happened, manny put in a host of demands which floyd accepted, floyd made a demand that they both undergo random testing and manny refused. He then refused a compromise offer of 14 days - why would he refuse that if he wanted the fight? He then walked away and fought clottey. 6 months later he made a public deadline for floyd to agree the same stipulations that manny previously refused, ie 50/50 and 14 day cut off.

That is the scenario I presented to you last week.

Your only possible argument is that floyd would have "known" manny would refuse, and his pre-empting of this was a very cunning way of ducking the fight, which is total far fetched nonsense.

Re-counting mannys career from Marquez II onwards is irrelevant to this point and simply a diversionary tactic for you to distract from the fact that you have no logical arguement to the point, other than the crystal ball theory, which simply doesnt wash.

You have no winning arguement here, everyone can see that.

Not at all Manny did not put in a host of demands.

This falsehood about Floyd agreeing to Manny's gloves, what a load of rubbish, Floyd wanted 8oz and so did Manny.

There was and agreement, Manny only request was that the weight penalties for Floyd as he proved he cannot be trusted over this matter.

And it was then and only the when blood testing was brought into the equation.

Even if manny only made one demand, that would still be one more than floyd prior to the testing request. Why should Team Pacquiao always dictate terms to their opponent and expect nothing back?

Manny refused the random testing, he refused the 14 day cut off comprimise, he walked away from negotiations to fight clottey instead, he came back 6 months later asking fir the deal he refused before to be signed, end of.

imperialghosty wrote:There is no 144lb division so your opinion is futile

It doesn't matter he made a promised to Marquez signed a contract saying the fight would be at 144lbs and yet had no intention of sticking to it. Marquez was a career feather who was forced to move up 3 weights in a year at the age of 36 to make Floyd look good, and yet Floyd could not even honour his word with Marquez, disgraceful as a boxer and as a man.