Ireland Team for Scotland Warm Up Clash

by MBTGOG Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

So it's just 12 days to before the season starts up again and the run up to the World Cup starts in earnest. This fixture against Scotland is one of three games before the squad announcement so will be very important when considering selection. This one of Scotland's two games and will probably be seen as the more important to them. What team would you select for this Test?

by funnyExiledScot Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:48 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Lets face facts, whatever centre combination Scotland throw up will not really be a concern to Brian O'Driscoll

I reckon the Scotland team will look something like this :

1. Jacobsen
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Kellock
6. Brown
7. Barclay
8. Denton

9.Cusiter
10. Jackson
11. R. Lamont
12. S. Lamont
13. Ansbro
14. Danielli
15. Cuthbert

16.Cross 17.S Lawson 18.Hines 19.Beattie 20.Laidlaw 21.Morrison 22.Paterson

Kicking duties shared by Cuthbert and Jackson. I reckon Mossy is the stronger option at full back based on how well he played in the 6N but Cuthbert is certainly the future of that position, with Rory Lamont's abilities needed on the wing.

Pretty similar to my team. I think Rob Harley might get a game ahead of Brown based on what AR has said about the uncapped trio getting a chance, but I agree that Denton will get a start, and I think the backs are about right (I had switched CP and Cuthbert, although there's certainly merit in seeing how Jackson gets on with the goal kicking).

by MMC Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:49 am

Good question pete. I think I'd go for...

Court
Flannery
Hayes

Healy is our first choice and we know what he can do so I'd start Court.
Flannery is just coming back from injury and needs gametime, Best has played almost every minute of every Ireland game for the last year so there's nothing to be learned from having him there.
Hayes - last chance saloon to stake a claim for a place (in competition with Buckley).

Ryan
Cullen

Ryan hits lots of rucks and doesn't lack too much in the way of physicality.
I think he'd act as a good foil for Cullen who would then be free to play a POC-like role, which he's more than capable of.

Ferris
SOB
Leamy

We need to see where Ferris is in terms of form and fitness.
SOB needs to prove that he can play 7 at international level and he should be helped by having Ferris there to hit rucks (much in the same way I think the 2nd rows will help each other).

Reddan
Sexton

We need to start our first choice guys for this one. As unpopular as Parks may be, Scottish halfbacks are always more than a handful.

Wallace
O'Driscoll

Wallace is more than capable of keeping Lamont wrapped up all day, and Morrison too if it were him playing. His defence is stronger than many give him credit for. His distribution skills are second to no other in our squad and if D'Arcy struggles for fitness he'll be out starting 12.
O'Driscoll should play at 13 for 50-60 minutes before we do some centre jiggery pokery (which I'll explain shortly).

Fitzgerald (11)
Trimble (14)
Kearney (15)

Strange looking back 3 you may think. Maybe it is, but this is what I'd go for.
Fitzgerald deserves a chance to stake a claim. Playing him in his best position is the fairest way to do this.
Trimble at 14 as it's his best position and we can't keep relying on Bowe to play 80 minutes there, especially if he has to cover another position due to injury.
Kearney at 15 because we're going to need him against the likes of South Africa. Badly.

Bench:
Best
Ross
POC
Heaslip

I've chose 2 strong scrummagers on the bench in Best and Ross.
I think Court will hold his own at LH but I'd worry about Hayes. Having Buckley on the bench would be too risky so I've gone for Ross.

POC and Heaslip coming on would be a huge boost to the forwards. POC to replace Cullen and Heaslip to replace Ferris, with Leamy moving to BS.

Murray
Earls
Jones

OK so the backs subs look weird but bare with me.
ROG has a calf tear, a minor one but let's not rush him back. He's vital to us. Almost as much as Sexton. People can disagree with that to their heart's content - it's my opinion.
Ideally in this game I'd leave Sexton on for the full 80 but since it's a warm up game why not try Paddy there for the last 15 minutes.

I KNOW, I KNOW, he's not a 10. But he will be our emergency 10 cover in NZ, that's almost certain.
Now, as for the centre jiggery pokery I was talking about. As Paddy has been moved to 10 I'd bring Earls off the bench at play him at 13, with BOD going to 12. Experimental? Yes. But again, Earls will probably be our 13 cover if anything happens to BOD so it makes sense. Also, if D'Arcy doesn't make it then we're going to need an extra option at 12 to do us in a pinch. We can't rely on McFadden for this as Kidney may decide to bring Fitzgerald instead.

Finally Jones to come off the bench for Kearney and show us if he's up to it.

It's not the strongest side we could field, but I think it's a damn good side nonetheless.

by formerly known as Sam Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:58 am

Not seeing a lot mentioned about Geordan Murphy, which is slightly suprising since I've seen no news ruling him out and he's in the squad. Surely a challenger to Kearney and despite the speed young Jones offers from the games I saw (vs Quinns and I think vs Toulon) not sure he lives up to the hype. Largely forgettable performances and with no international experience. Geordan has got to be worth a run out, on form and fully fit he's one of the best full backs in Europe even with his powers fading. His ability to offer a secondary first receiver would significantly reduce the pressure on Sexton as well.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:00 pm

I get most of your selections I have to say (although don't agree with some but that's fine

) other than the front 5.

I think when bringing in a new player or a returning injured player it makes a huge amount of sense to let them play with players who are closer to being regulars or are regulars IMO.

I think at least one of Healy/Ross should start with Fla so as he is returning to something of a settled team (not very settled) but possibly something of a settled combination

Ryan/Cullen I think playing Ryan with POC (he needs gametime IMO) and bringing on Cullen

by funnyExiledScot Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:01 pm

MMC - pretty much the side I'd pick were I Kidney. My only changes would be to replace Hayes with Buckley, as I think the latter needs to prove himself over 80 minutes, whereas I think with the former you pretty much know what you'll get. I'd also switch Paddy Wallace with Fergus McFadden, and put Wallace on the bench instead of Felix Jones (Kearney needs the full 80 to prove himself, if he misfires, then give Jones the next game, with the better player over the two games getting the final warm-up).

Being fair though, not matter what you do, the mighty Scots will batter you as per the warm-up game before the last WC.

Braveheart

by Thomond Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:02 pm

Sam,Geordan isn't really being considered as Kearney is also only returning from injury and bringing two full backs just back from injury is a little risky.

by MMC Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:09 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:MMC - pretty much the side I'd pick were I Kidney. My only changes would be to replace Hayes with Buckley, as I think the latter needs to prove himself over 80 minutes, whereas I think with the former you pretty much know what you'll get. I'd also switch Paddy Wallace with Fergus McFadden, and put Wallace on the bench instead of Felix Jones (Kearney needs the full 80 to prove himself, if he misfires, then give Jones the next game, with the better player over the two games getting the final warm-up).

Being fair though, not matter what you do, the mighty Scots will batter you as per the warm-up game before the last WC.

I wouldn't be too surprised if that was the case. This is likely to be the most experimental of the sides he chooses given that it's the first one. I'd imagine that as the games go on we'll see fewer and fewer changes until finally in the England game, the likely team to face Australia will be played.

Also, Edinburgh is never an easy place to go to, for any side.

The reason I'd have Jones there to replace Kearney is that I'd like to see the direct contrast of how they do in the same conditions (same teammates, same halfback kicking bombs, same weather etc.). If Jones is really as good as we think he is then this will be his chance to prove it.

Pete,
I agree with you when you say that the front 5 that I've chosen looks a bit weak. I'd stick to my guns on the props I've chosen though. Maybe you could argue for starting Best with Flannery to come on and as you say, start POC instead of Cullen but I'd like to see Cullen get as much game time as possible, especially against this strong Scottish lineout.

by formerly known as Sam Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:16 pm

Sam,Geordan isn't really being considered as Kearney is also only returning from injury and bringing two full backs just back from injury is a little risky..

Is risky if you pick the one that breaks down over the one that doesn't. Why include both in the squad if only one if to be used in the warm up games, seems pointless when the other one (in this case Geordan) is then forced to miss pre season training which could have got him match fit in case of an emergency. Got to give both a little game time or it's a waste having them both there.

by **Notch** Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:19 pm

Wouldn't mind seeing Murphy get a bit of gametime at all.

There are five games (four test matches and a friendly against Connacht) so should be able to accommodate him somewhere. I'd still give Kearney a run out first up because I believe he will be our first choice.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:25 pm

"I wouldn't be too surprised if that was the case. This is likely to be the most experimental of the sides he chooses given that it's the first one. I'd imagine that as the games go on we'll see fewer and fewer changes until finally in the England game, the likely team to face Australia will be played."-MMC

I think this is very true this game and Connacht game will be the ones with the most experimenting.

Why not take Ross ff your bench and start him with Court and Fla then bring on Hayes, that way Court and Fla are getting time

by greybeard Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:33 pm

I'd say the Connacht game will be a very tame affair. It's akin to the Bayonne match of four years ago, quickly arranged to give much needed game time to recovering players, except this time the opposition will not be out to decapitate any and all players in an Ireland shirt.

Well, hopefully not.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:43 pm

I can see the Connacht match being a bit silly almost with players playing because they weren't at the french game the evening before

Horan-Fla/Cronin-Buckley/Hayes
Ryan/Cullen-MOD
McLoughlin-Leamy-Jennings
Murray-Humphreys
McFadden-Fitzgerald
?-Murphy-?

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:58 pm

The English game really has to be the full team doesn't it. The second French match too has to have something of a decided look about it with just a few selection bits going on

by MMC Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:23 pm

That Bayonne game was awful alright. I'm looking forward to the warmup games. It's so so different to last time. Last time I was terrified that 1 of our "Starting 15" would get injured. And so were they.

This time we have so many positions up for grabs. It's fantastic.

by MBTGOG Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:29 pm

Anyone think it might have been better to have had a warm up game in New Zealand? Say against a provincial side?

by valjester Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:33 pm

MBTGOG wrote:Anyone think it might have been better to have had a warm up game in New Zealand? Say against a provincial side?

No. Its better to have it against proper teams as opposed to a provincial side full of players who are out to make a name for themselves. It would be repeating the mistakes of 2007 again.

by MMC Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:33 pm

It could end up turning into a "Bayonne" though Munsty. Probably slightly different given that NZ aren't in our group and France were, but even so, I'd be slightly worried.

I like the idea of it other than that though. The thought of an extra week to settle in and to have a game already under your belt on NZ soil before the competition has started would be an advantage.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:35 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Lets face facts, whatever centre combination Scotland throw up will not really be a concern to Brian O'Driscoll

I reckon the Scotland team will look something like this :

1. Jacobsen
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Kellock
6. Brown
7. Barclay
8. Denton

9.Cusiter
10. Jackson
11. R. Lamont
12. S. Lamont
13. Ansbro
14. Danielli
15. Cuthbert

16.Cross 17.S Lawson 18.Hines 19.Beattie 20.Laidlaw 21.Morrison 22.Paterson

Kicking duties shared by Cuthbert and Jackson. I reckon Mossy is the stronger option at full back based on how well he played in the 6N but Cuthbert is certainly the future of that position, with Rory Lamont's abilities needed on the wing.

Radge, think you won't be far wrong with that. If Beattie is fit and finding form, I'd expect to see him get some action, and agree that Denton and Harley are certain to get game-time too. Think he'll go with Paterson at FB, just so that our best backline gets a couple of decent tests cos I don't think that they've played together before

by MBTGOG Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:49 pm

valjester wrote:
MBTGOG wrote:Anyone think it might have been better to have had a warm up game in New Zealand? Say against a provincial side?

No. Its better to have it against proper teams as opposed to a provincial side full of players who are out to make a name for themselves. It would be repeating the mistakes of 2007 again.

I think you'll find the New Zealand sides would go about the game very differently to how the French sides do. As MMC the pros of it are playing a game over there and getting used to the conditions and atmosphere.

by valjester Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:01 pm

MBTGOG wrote:
valjester wrote:
MBTGOG wrote:Anyone think it might have been better to have had a warm up game in New Zealand? Say against a provincial side?

No. Its better to have it against proper teams as opposed to a provincial side full of players who are out to make a name for themselves. It would be repeating the mistakes of 2007 again.

I think you'll find the New Zealand sides would go about the game very differently to how the French sides do. As MMC the pros of it are playing a game over there and getting used to the conditions and atmosphere.

Not worth the risk imo.

by MBTGOG Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:08 pm

There's a risk whoever we play but this at least would give us a game in New Zealand before the comp started.

by **Notch** Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:12 pm

I'd say the IRFUs decision to hold the games at home is partly financial.

England and France are the two biggest draws outside of the All Blacks and two home games against those two will cash in nicely on the additional interest generated by the World Cup.

What am I saying? Partly financial? Try mainly financial!

by valjester Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:26 pm

MBTGOG wrote:There's a risk whoever we play but this at least would give us a game in New Zealand before the comp started.

I think they've got it right with the warm ups selected. Let them arrive in new zealand completely focused on the world cup and spend the first week there settling in and working on their drills before using the second week to focus on the usa. Imo having a game against a provincial team would be distracting and unnecessary. It is likely that the majority of the players who start against the usa and australia will also start against france and england, therefore I think a weekend off would be better preperation than playing another match. Also it may have been hard to get any provincial teams due to the ITM cup.

by The Great Aukster Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:13 pm

Apparently Kearney is especially focussed and raring to go and has been working as hard as he has ever worked in the last two seasons. I'd expect him to start and play the full 80 to test him properly. IMO Kidney will also want to test Flannery, Ferris and TOL for the whole game as well.

Heard that some of the coaches weren't too amused with D'Arcy postponing his op. until after his holiday and effectively ruling him out of this and maybe the next game. I can't see BOD starting this game so Kidney will want experience at 12 and probably start Wallace there with one of Earls/McFadden/Bowe/Trimble outside him.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:20 pm

Ausker, where in the world did you hear all this?

by Sin é Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:30 pm

Keith Earls is going to be kept a busy boy if anything happens to any of 11-15! We're be in right trouble if anything happens to him.

I think D'Arcy got engaged on his holidays this year - might explain the delay in having his op.

by MBTGOG Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:33 pm

Sin é wrote:Keith Earls is going to be kept a busy boy if anything happens to any of 11-15! We're be in right trouble if anything happens to him.

I think D'Arcy got engaged on his holidays this year - might explain the delay in having his op.

How dare he have a life outside of rugby!

by **Notch** Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:33 pm

It is still a bit of a concern; not a great attitude...

by MBTGOG Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:34 pm

Notch wrote:It is still a bit of a concern; not a great attitude...

Great attitude towards what?

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:37 pm

Don't understand why he couldn't have done it earlier tbh.

Kearney may be pumped and ready to go but we don't know if he actually will play well, he hasn't played really, really, well in quite some time

I agree that Ferris, Fla, TOL, Kearney need time but what other game (Connacht aside) could you play Murray and Jones in? The Scotland game is a good option to give them time in

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:43 pm

Is anyone coming to this game? If so fancy meeting up for a pint?

by **Notch** Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:44 pm

MBTGOG wrote:
Notch wrote:It is still a bit of a concern; not a great attitude...

Great attitude towards what?

Towards making 100% sure he holds his place in the team and has a good pre-season.

by funnyExiledScot Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:46 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Is anyone coming to this game? If so fancy meeting up for a pint?

I'm afraid I can't make it up to Edinburgh for the game sadly. I'm already assuming it's going to be on TV?

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:48 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:

I'm afraid I can't make it up to Edinburgh for the game sadly. I'm already assuming it's going to be on TV?

Don't think so FES. I'm almost 100% certain this game or the Italy game is getting shown on the Telly

by greybeard Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:49 pm

Notch wrote:
MBTGOG wrote:
Notch wrote:It is still a bit of a concern; not a great attitude...

Great attitude towards what?

Towards making 100% sure he holds his place in the team and has a good pre-season.

Does that mean you think he actually doesn't care too much about going to the RWC? I'd find that a bit unbelievable. This is what they've been waiting for for the past 4 years, especially the players that were there in 2007 and have a score to settle.

If he hasn't elected for immediate surgery it's because he believes it to be the best action to take.

by **Notch** Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:52 pm

I don't know, I don't know the guy and I don't know his reasons. I'm not gonna chat nonsense about him on the internet. But if he could have done more to ensure he was available for full training and gametime sooner the coaches are within their rights to be irritated.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:54 pm

The injury was sustained in the Hcup final I know that much anyways

Are the warm ups not on tv??? Not cool RTE, not cool. furious

by funnyExiledScot Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:06 pm

Getting engaged BEFORE a World Cup isn't smart. What if Ireland win? Surely he'd be entitled to an upgrade. I guess he could always renege....

by MBTGOG Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:21 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:The injury was sustained in the Hcup final I know that much anyways

Are the warm ups not on tv??? Not cool RTE, not cool.

The two French games are. SKY have the England game and as far as I know, no one has picked up the Scotland game yet.

by MBTGOG Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:22 pm

Notch wrote:
MBTGOG wrote:
Notch wrote:It is still a bit of a concern; not a great attitude...

Great attitude towards what?

Towards making 100% sure he holds his place in the team and has a good pre-season.

Okay, not a great attitude towards that but I think getting engaged to your wife is a little bit more important than rugby.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:40 am

Possibly setanta?

by **rodders** Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:11 am

MBTGOG wrote:
Okay, not a great attitude towards that but I think getting engaged to your wife is a little bit more important than rugby.

Well thats a matter of opinion really. Besides why would you want to get engaged to your wife? Very Happy

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:17 am

roddersm wrote:
MBTGOG wrote:
Okay, not a great attitude towards that but I think getting engaged to your wife is a little bit more important than rugby.

Well thats a matter of opinion really. Besides why would you want to get engaged to your wife?

+1

by InjuredYetAgain Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:32 pm

Sin é wrote:Jennings broke something during the Magners. Doubt if he will be up to being involved in any meaningful way against Scotland.

Was it wind or sweat that he broke?
I think both coaches will play full strength/first choice teams for most of the game but will change integral units like half-backs, back 3 en masse to test combos. I don't know how many subs are allowed to be used.
I'm actually looking forward to going to Murrayfield without 15 layers of clothing on. I might actually fit on the seat.

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