Womens' Open.

First topic message reminder :

Just passed Natalie Gulbis out shopping ahead of the Womens Open.
What's all the fuss about? People make out she's a knockout, bit of a scrubber to be fair. There are scores of better looking women in the game than her.

I had no idea who Caroline Masson was a few days ago (not that I follow LET or LPGA tours particularly), but was v impressed with her swing. Pity she had a touch of the last day major jitters, but wish her well for the future.

Agreed on the swing, i also noticed that Catriona Mathews looks a lot like Tom Watson.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Sky.
Masson looks like a female Kaymer, as they have the same coach it is not surprising. I think she will become a regular major winner.
Cartiona has as good a swing as Watson as well as looking like him.

Anyway, what do I know about golf as I tipped Howell and Masson to win yesterday morning.

Doon the Water wrote:Mav
Have you taken her to watch guid women playin gowf.

Very good for her development, If you can't get to Pro events take her to top amateur events like the British or English.

Can we all have an sharp intake of breath and give Catriona a bit of a blow tomorow. The German girl looks very calm, I think I would put my pennies on her.

DTW..

Unfortuantely I have not been able to take her to anything this year due to the nature of my injury. I did get her tickets for the Open which she went to with my dad and brother which she enjoyed. I am hoping that we can get to plenty of events in the future. Even looking at combining a business trip to the US with her school hols if we can to get to LPGA events for her and have arranged for her to get along to some Am events which my dad's taking her too.

Back to the subject at hand..

Yani Tseng (funnily enough the reason my daughter decided to play golf) 5 majors at 22 years old WOW. She is going to seriously dominate Womens Golf for many years

I'm not sure why Yani Tseng's achievement isn't generating more publicity - if I understand it correctly, NO golfer (man, woman or tiger) has managed to do what she's done in terms of majors haul at that age...?

I find it quite funny when she's asked in interviews how she's feeling mid-tournament whilst in contention, and she replies "I'm very exciting!". It's probably not what quite what she means, but appropriate nevertheless!

I think the issue is that the womens game does not get the media coverage the mens does that coupled with the fact Tigers father Earl pushed his into the limelight so young so everything he did in his Am career and pro career was spotlighted from day one.

But I agree she should get more recognition for her achievements

Have to say I was really impressed with Tseng. She's got a wonderful, fluid, powerful swing and never looked like losing. Five Majors at her age speaks for itself really.

Masson looked pretty good as well. Pity about the meltdown but she looks good enough to win a few Majors in the future.

Am not sure about Tiger being pushed into the limelight so young being a reason for his early recognition - he played some pretty good golf to get that recognition himself!

As for Yani, women's golf is sadly a sport that people just do not watch. Sample as that I'm afraid...

sharrison01 wrote:Am not sure about Tiger being pushed into the limelight so young being a reason for his early recognition - he played some pretty good golf to get that recognition himself!

As for Yani, women's golf is sadly a sport that people just do not watch. Sample as that I'm afraid...

The fact he was on letterman or whoever show it was at a year old hitting golf balls meant any success that was subsequent would gain media focus and the fact that during his Junior golf and AM golf Earl was thrusting the boy into the media limelight it was always going to happen.

Rory's parents did the same and surely that is an opportunity that most parents would take? It's a lot easier to succeed if people already know who you are and that applies to all levels of golf. There are a lot of players that are also in the limelight in some form at a young age but very few go on to have a career like Tiger's or Rory's and to be fair to both sets of parents, it's not as if they are in professional sports themselves.

I think theirs a big difference though to the way each player was brought up and maybe thats a good topic for another thread. With Rory his parents did what they though best for their son with regards to additional jobs, building the putting green at home etc, and I believe he was on tv chipping balls into a washing machine!.

Earl Woods seemed to be far more pushy than Rory's parents from what I know anyway. Earl seemed to continually tell the kid what to do how to play when to play. I even recall reading somewhere a quite by Tiger that his dad made him continue with things over and over until he (earl) was satisfied with the result when all the 9 year old boy wanted to do was have a burger and play footie with his mates. I think there's many more things that we could dig into with how Earl guided and moulded Tiger into what he is whereas Rory's parents encouraged the lads development in a far more natural way.

That said there's the difference that Tiger had an amateur career first and went to Stanford played walker cup (which I believe Rory did maybe wrong there). But as I say a good talking point for another thread and a way we can see the poles apart the players are instead of having the comparisons made of how alike they are. I'm a fan of neither especially Rory cannot take to the kid

Big difference too between the Letterman show and one on BBC NI!

Bob_the_Job wrote:Big difference too between the Letterman show and one on BBC NI!

Same actions, different countries.

As Mav said though, prob a topic for another thread. The Women's Open is hardly turning interest away so lets not hijack their thread...

I certainly take the point of lower audiences/interest levels (reflected also in the relative purses of men's v women's events), but what about Michelle Wie? She came on the scene some time before I took a serious interest in the sport, but I was aware of the hype around her - so it must have been pretty widespread in her case.

At the risk of rabble-rousing given the man's controversial status on this forum, I noted that Peter Alliss made a point of expressing his disappointment/frustration yesterday that she doesn't seem to have fulfilled her talent (yet).

Michelle Wie is a casing point of maybe why Yani doesn;t get the coverage her achievements warrent.

I remember the hype around I believe a 14 year old girl being the next big thing in fact she was the female Tiger and was going to take the men on at their own game, wsa going to break records for the number of Womans majors, got a contract with Nike exploded on scene into a great big ball of nothingness! Hasn't won a major and as far as I am aware though I maybe wrong hasn't won a professional event.

Yani Tseng comes on the scene unknown to anyone and is tearing up the record books.

I think Michelle has now won one or two LPGA events (only in the last year or so mind you), but no majors. Have heard people say she's in the past had bad management/advice and possibly bad attitude, as well as some injury problems. She's just finished or is about to finish college (good on her, IMO), so might now be able to focus more time/attention on her golf.

Possibly too late though if young Miss Mavette has anything to say about it?

I would hope Michelle Wie could kick on and win because the fact she stayed on at college and plays the tour at same time is not easy and good on her for not just relying on the sport for her future. Hopefully she can fulfill her potential, as I say was not certain on tour wins.

Well if miss mavette takes the game up full time she;ll have my support but will let her develop under the guidance of her county coaches and her pro she goes to. Heck i'd caddy for her for free at first to give her help and then step aside to get a proper caddy

Michelle Wie - lots of hype and no (so far) substance. Badly managed IMO.

Had a look at her when I could over the course of the Open and was somewhat surprised at how she swings the club. More her stance/setup really - she has this nasty straight back and appears to be looking at the ball out of the bottom of her eyeballs. I'm not sure that's conducive to having a winning swing. Has she had back problems in the past?

Re. her college studies. I'm sure Stanford cut her as much slack as she needs. What's she studying? She seems to make a significant number of idiotic decisions re. golf rulings, something I would have thought was at odds with someone 'studying' at Stanford.

navyblueshorts wrote:Michelle Wie - lots of hype and no (so far) substance. Badly managed IMO.

Had a look at her when I could over the course of the Open and was somewhat surprised at how she swings the club. More her stance/setup really - she has this nasty straight back and appears to be looking at the ball out of the bottom of her eyeballs. I'm not sure that's conducive to having a winning swing. Has she had back problems in the past?

Re. her college studies. I'm sure Stanford cut her as much slack as she needs. What's she studying? She seems to make a significant number of idiotic decisions re. golf rulings, something I would have thought was at odds with someone 'studying' at Stanford.

I would have thought that it'll be Business Management or something similar where it's not rocket science to get your degree. Agree with you that she could do with better managing herself - doesn't come across as overly endearing and unfortunately hasn't come anywhere near to fulfilling the hype...

She's probably studying American History - which won't take up much of her time apart from trying to work out what is real history and which is Hollywood history

She is studying communications. Among the classes she's taken (both as part of the communications major and outside of that major) are Journalism, American Government, Japanese and classes relating to statistical analysis

I find it quite cynical, this idea of people like Woods and Wie completing their degrees so they have 'something to fall back on' should they not be successful on the course. And then signing multi-million dollar contracts. That'll do to fall back on, thanks very much. As if they're going to bank that and then go and work as a civil servant or something.

I don't believe TW completed his degree. A quick internet search concurs, although I wouldn't say that's definitive proof. He'll be OK though I imagine (expect he could live off the interest on the interest...).

Whilst at it, I've also had a look into Michelle Wie's situation. Was a bit mistaken above - she's due to graduate next year. I probably heard she was done for the academic year and mistakenly thought that was the end of her course.

It's an interesting notion though about having something to fall back on after a career has finished. I'm currently intending to play a lot of golf when I retire. What do professional golfers expect to do afterwards?!?

Most Playing Pros become Club Pros which is pretty hard on the good Club Pros.

Golf Club committee men/women become seduced by a 'name' whilst the guy who keeps a good shop and is a good coach is overlooked.
Usually ends in tears.

Mind you I know a few playing pros who are now factory workers /shop salesmen.
Most of the retired club pros I know are either keen gardeners or still play a lot of club golf or a mixture of both. One is a red hot bowls player, another tours UK/ Europe in one of those big houses on wheels. The few retired women golf pros I know all married rich older men!

Lets face it Michelle is a. A woman and b. American so its unlikely she was ever going to get cut much slack on here.
Its funny that Rory seems to get cut so much more slack for hits prattish outbursts than a girl who was in a massive media spotlight when she was in her mid teens does.
Seems to me that her biggest "mistake" was daring to think she could compete with men.

Back to Yani Tseng.
There's little doubt that her lack of celebrity in the U.S. is due to two reasons:
1).The diminished status of the LPGA Tour, fewer than half the numbrer of tournaments in the USA than twenty years ago for instance, with prize funds about the same. Virtually none of these events are on "Network TV" and viewership continues to decline.

2).The fact she's Asian. If her name was Morgan Pressel or Paula Creamer, the US marketing machine would pick her up and make her a worldwide phenomenon. As it is, I'd guess fewer than 1% of Americans have any clue who she is, let alone any of her achievements. There are still as many column inches in the US press about Michelle Wie than about the rest of the LPGA put together.

I used to love watching the LPGA on TV; now it's virtually unavailable and what there is is unwatchable (not because the women aren't good, they are terrific, slow but terrific, but the productions are so bad).

Having 5 majors is not going to help Yani in the long term either. Whatever she does her record will always have a note to mention she got 5 shots a year at a major while others got 4.

She is at the moment about 10 years ahead of Sorenstam in terms of time to 5 majors. As always it is difficult to compare generations but that is just amazing.

Nay Bother wrote:She is studying communications. Among the classes she's taken (both as part of the communications major and outside of that major) are Journalism, American Government, Japanese and classes relating to statistical analysis

Seriously???? Now that is funny.

Diggers wrote:Lets face it Michelle is a. A woman and b. American so its unlikely she was ever going to get cut much slack on here.
Its funny that Rory seems to get cut so much more slack for hits prattish outbursts than a girl who was in a massive media spotlight when she was in her mid teens does.
Seems to me that her biggest "mistake" was daring to think she could compete with men.

Now, now. Stop basing everything on preconceptions. My opinion of Wie has little do with the fact she's a woman or an American and everything to do with her public utterances, ignorance of rules, absurd ideas about whom to compete against and the numbskull hype surrounding her (to be fair, this may not be much of her doing).

Navy, its not a preconception on here to see that women golfers arent allowed much time or indeed respect and that Americans aren't universally loved.
I have read enough posts on both subjects on here and the old 606 to be utterly convinced of that.
Wie is basically a perfect example of those two things wrapped together in a package that people can have a go at.
Why anyone who chooses to pursue an academic career as well as playing pro sport should be mocked is a bit beyond me to be honest. I mean Id be gutted if my little girl ended up as a successful pro golfer and studied ta one of the worlds best universtities.
OK so she can be a bit annoying but I do think she gets way too much grief personally. Lets face it, its not like she's Ian Poulter and really deserves hammering.......

Personally speaking don't have anything against any women golfers or any yanks with the exception of Paul Azinger and Tim Finchem.

Watched a few holes of Wie when I was at Carnoustie on Friday, and saw her spend a fair bit of time signing autographs etc. with fans after her round. Right enough, the level if interest in her seemed out of all proportion to her actual achievements to date. She seems to have putting woes now, resorting to the belly putter. Never a good sign in one that's still so young, so she may never come close to fulfilling her early promise. Didn't realise how tall she was, although she was playing with a couple of munchkins, which possibly made her look even taller!

I was slightly disappointed in the size of the galleries at Carnoustie. I'd never attended a women's event before, and was fully expecting the crowds to be way down on the men's Open equivalent - but I was still surprised by how easy it was to get green-side and tee-side, even for the big name groupings - and into the grandstand at the 18th, which was the ONLY one on the course (I think). Great access to the players as a spectactor, but slightly disappointing level of interest for the women's game in general. I'd go back in an instant though. Not sure where it is in 2012, but will certainly be attending St Andrews in 2013.

On kwini's points about Tseng's lack of celebrity in the USA, I'd add a third reason - she ain't a looker! Sad, but true, when it comes to the commercialsim of the sport. Do you think the hype about Wie would have been anything like the same level if she'd looked like the back end of a bus? (not suggesting that Yani does BTW!)

kwinigolfer wrote:Back to Yani Tseng.
There's little doubt that her lack of celebrity in the U.S. is due to two reasons:
1).The diminished status of the LPGA Tour, fewer than half the numbrer of tournaments in the USA than twenty years ago for instance, with prize funds about the same. Virtually none of these events are on "Network TV" and viewership continues to decline.

2).The fact she's Asian. If her name was Morgan Pressel or Paula Creamer, the US marketing machine would pick her up and make her a worldwide phenomenon. As it is, I'd guess fewer than 1% of Americans have any clue who she is, let alone any of her achievements. There are still as many column inches in the US press about Michelle Wie than about the rest of the LPGA put together.

I used to love watching the LPGA on TV; now it's virtually unavailable and what there is is unwatchable (not because the women aren't good, they are terrific, slow but terrific, but the productions are so bad).

kwini

Do you see the LPGA and ELPGA tours combining to form a 'world tour'? Would be an interesting concept and also would be interesting to see what sort of influence it would have on the two main men's tours. Woods and Mickelson have been prepared to travel for many years now and there seem to be a few more following their example now.

Who knows, maybe in a few years we will see Norman's vision of a world tour actually happening.

Hi d4s,
I really don't see the LPGA and ELPGA Tours combining, don't see where the perceived value might be for the LPGA. There's no significant sponsorship in Europe other than for the Evian event, and no marquee players.
Meanwhile, there's increasing presence in Asia and that will surely continue.

And I still think Phil will spend a summer season in Europe with his family, perhaps playing half a dozen events from Wentworth to Ireland during US school hols (usually from early June to mid-August).
My expectation is that Tiger will make himself a golfing free agent, perhaps not until he's regained some semblance of form but, when he's put another Major away, watch out Tim Finchem. He's made no effort in recent years to conform to the Tour minimum of 15 events played and that is more two fingers at the system than injury. He'll trawl around the World collecting big fat appearance fees in an effort to revitalise his sponsorship income.
(Perhaps it's significant that he's joined Greg Norman's "Medallist Club" in Florida . . . . . ?)

kwini

I saw a rundown of the ladies world rankings at the weekend, was quite shocked to see the lack of Euro players near the top. 3 in the top 30, best Brit is 35th. Expected to see all the Asian girls dominating but not quite to the extent that they have done. Guess you are right about the merger, ELPGA tour offering the world #3 towards a world tour is hardly going to sway the decision.

Sorry to be pedantic chaps, but it's the LET in the Europe, not ELPGA (no such thing). Agree that they are highly unlikely to join forces - there's no mileage in that. Sad that women's golf is suffering from lack of sponsorship but when the men's Irish Open can't attract a sponsor, what chance the women?

Apologies LP, should have checked. But as you say . . . . .

Not sure about the Irish Open, a bit chicken and egg I would think given pathetic lack of support from leading European players.