NZ Vs SA

First topic message reminder :

Game kicks off in 5 minutes and i have got out of bed especially.

I love the tri nations, despite the fact that this spring bok side could be lambs to the slaughter, you bever know...

All black lineup looks immense!

Prediction
All blacks by more than 14

The hesitancy from last week was gone for the ABs which was a good sign. The breakdown and ball security was much much better. There was a 20 minute period in the first half where they seemed to get the yips and went a bit OTT on the chip/grubber kicks. I actually though NZ looked most composed with Slade at 10, Carter at 12 and Williams at 13, but then perhaps SA were just on the canvas by then.

Next week's game should be a classic.

Rolland didn't have too bad a game. I thought he made a few overly technical calls especially on guys accidentally brushing against their own team when attacking, and a few dubious calls on flat passes were he brought play back unnecessarily. But over all very encouraging. Only one blindingly bad call near the end of the match when he penalised NZ for collapsing a scrum 5 meters out, which was a strange decision.

Enjoyed the game. Lots of people say John Smit is passed it etc. but I reckon he still has a lot to offer. Thought Piennar was quite good too as was Cowan. Steyn is one dimensional and quite predictable but what he does he usually does well. Some other good performances from some Boks. Nice run from Chilliboy I think it was. How NZ didn't get carded for blatantly moving round the wrong side of the ruck and lying on the ball I'll never know. Though it's no surprise as it was quite similar to the incident which lead to the Heaslip red card last summer. Incredibly frustrating to watch.

For NZ Carter is still the best OH in the world despite a kicking display that would leave even Cooper scratching his head. Jane got off to a slow start giving away possession, running into his own man etc. However, as the game wore on he got better and better. Never really know what to make of him. Was excellent today though. McCaw, great guy, very clever guy, great speaker, will one day be manager of NZ I'd say because he is one of the classiest individuals Ive seen in an AB shirt but can't stand watching him cause he just gets away with so much. Credit to Roland for at least picking up on some of it.

Rolland got it right when penalising the attackers running into their own man but the forward pass calls were wrong IMO.

I think the problem for NZ is who to leave out of the squad rather than who to include. Nice to see the fringe players making such strong statements over the last couple of weeks. Andrew Hore even hit his jumpers today, albeit against the weakest SA second row ever fielded.

I don`t need to defend myself here.I am indeed English.more correctly born English of Anglo-Scottish parents.
Supported the All Blacks since 1953-4 twice my first impressions sticking,first live match i`d ever seen.
It may be said that has`nt waned for over 50 years through thick and thin.
In 1953 the All Blacks were in an interim stage,Kiwi 1946 style played by NH players.Otago style by others.
Wales and France were better than the AB`s that year,I support England and Scotland in that order versus anyone but the All Blacks.
Unlike some I am not stuck in 2003 with England,also I am fully aware under Wavell -Wakefield[before my time] also under Geoff Cooke and Jack Rowell England had some excellent periods just like SCW.
It took SCW 7 years to build his side,and I am as proud of his achievements as any other English fan.
BUT SCW would have been dumped had he been an NZ Coach in1999 as the All Black coaches were.
It is a fact that both Robinson and Ashton had a better win /loss ratio than SCW at the point there sacking.Ashton in particular should`nt have been sacked.
Martin Johnson and his coaching team are doing a good job with his young side.Post RWC when most of the veterans have gone he will stamp his mould on the team.
I was pointing out that HAD an England side put in a performance like that
ENGLAND fans would not be nit picking over the bones like some NZ fans here.
THAT is not a criticsm merely a statement of what I expected from NZ fans generally.
For them is no flowing ecstatic word s like there were for the Aussies last wek.

But no ENGLAND fan was nit picking.

Can`t you understand I was using it as a parallel ,alluding to the difference between expectations from an English and a NZ fan.
I am fully AWARE as far as i know there was no ENGLISH fan,but there certainly was a NH fan nitpicking.

I sure you have been hearing this all your life Emack but I don't understand how someone from England any other country could support NZ.

http://lt.webwombat.com/lt.php?4494
THAT is what I was refering to yesterday about a No Win situation for the ABs

Whatever first impressions stick for me,at Soccer it was Newcastle United.Cricket Yorkshire until the did away with the Yorkshire only born rule.
All Blacks because it was the first side i`d seen was no big deal as you see them about once every 10 years.
Now its a bit different but I have become an expert on NZ Rugby tho it waned from time to time due to pressure of work.

Yep, I think most sensible folks can see where you're coming from emack. The NZ press is reporting that the 'unconvincing but competent' NZ put 6 tries to 1 on a demoralised South Africa missing 21 players'.

This in comparison to the Sydney Morning Herald's reports last week as the 'Rampant' Wallabies "Overwhelmed" "World Cup Champions South Africa" by 5 tries to 2. Australia were at their 'exciting and physical best' apparently. And New Zealand would be sitting up and taking note, and 'fearful' of facing the 'revitalised' Wallabies.

To me I'm not sure you could get a credit card between the Aussies and the ABs at the moment.

TGG do you "always" quote everything you read "accurately" or do you "sometimes" take the odd "liberty"?

emack2 wrote:Whatever first impressions stick for me,at Soccer it was Newcastle United.Cricket Yorkshire until the did away with the Yorkshire only born rule.
All Blacks because it was the first side i`d seen was no big deal as you see them about once every 10 years.
Now its a bit different but I have become an expert on NZ Rugby tho it waned from time to time due to pressure of work.

Fair enough.

For me having played rugby with numerous clubs across Leinster I have always felt a strong sense of identity that has always extended all the way up to the national team. Rugby has always had a big social significance in my life as much as just watching the game and appreciating it for what it is. I have an uncle who played for Wasps and I always thought it was like that in England too.

Full Credit wrote:TGG do you "always" quote everything you read "accurately" or do you "sometimes" take the odd "liberty"?

You could just read the articles, SMH.com.au and nzherald.co.nz and do the comparison for yourself.

Emack is quite right. The NZ media and supporters generally have an objective and critical view of any victory as opposed to fans and media in other parts of the world who go crazy ape bananas over any kind of success. When England beat a depleted and experimental 14 man Australia last year you would've thought the rugby community had got together and collectively awarded them the RWC as a no-contest.

Leinsterbaby,when you watch a match any match.Where your own side or sides i snot involved.Say for me Ireland v Wales,any British team v France,or Australia v SA.not
really interested in either side.
But just pick a side in your head,and if the other side wins you feel down.

Does the New All black jumper remind anyone of this http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UL_Z3Eo-oyk/S_XsToTkgBI/AAAAAAAAANY/tKE2SE0xSIU/s1600/tuxedo-t-shirt.jpg

Or http://www.80stees.com/images/Halloween_Costumes/Cobra-Kai-Skeleton-group.jpg

I preferred the old one without the painted on priest collar.

I predicted a return of the white collar. It was kind of inevitable in terms of the hoodoo surrounding the ABs and the RWC. I guess in this day and age an actual collar isn't practical.

I would've though the SAs were glad to see a priest after today's 80 minutes.

TheGreyGhost wrote:I predicted a return of the white collar. It was kind of inevitable in terms of the hoodoo surrounding the ABs and the RWC. I guess in this day and age an actual collar isn't practical.

I would've though the SAs were glad to see a priest after today's 80 minutes.

Are you quoting from "The Press" again GG?

No linebreaker, that is an opinion all of my own.

New zealand was very good today, but lets behonest here a minutes SA was very poor.

The RWC as not even started yet and already the REF, is favouring NZ.

How many times did Mccaw interferere with the play of the game? and did not even get a talking too.

Rolland tried but McCaw still allowed to get away with too much .... Spent more time on the Boks side of most rucks than on his own ...

Linebreaker wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:I predicted a return of the white collar. It was kind of inevitable in terms of the hoodoo surrounding the ABs and the RWC. I guess in this day and age an actual collar isn't practical.

I would've though the SAs were glad to see a priest after today's 80 minutes.

Are you quoting from "The Press" again GG?

It kinda sums up the mentality of some Kiwis. Actually believing a jersey colour/style can influence performance. I admire McCaws attitude:

"If it comes down to what colour you wear determines how you play then we've got trouble," he said. Basically give me whatever jumper you like and we will win.

majesticimperialman wrote:New zealand was very good today, but lets behonest here a minutes SA was very poor.

The RWC as not even started yet and already the REF, is favouring NZ.

How many times did Mccaw interferere with the play of the game? and did not even get a talking too.

Mate, grow up. Did you even watch the game? McCaw is simply a great player who also knows how to form a good relationship with the ref. There was an almost constant and amiable dialogue between the two. The ref knew exactly what McCaw was doing and was fine with it. He pulled off some majestic stuff winning some vital turn overs. As far as wrong calls go, he probably got away with one, and was unlucky to get pinged for unbinding from a scrum early when the scrum appeared to be over. He's worn some shocking decisions this year, especially in the S15 against the Reds. Rolland had a pretty good game, other than some of his rulings on flat passes - who knows if that came from the assistant refs though.

leinsterbaby wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:I predicted a return of the white collar. It was kind of inevitable in terms of the hoodoo surrounding the ABs and the RWC. I guess in this day and age an actual collar isn't practical.

I would've though the SAs were glad to see a priest after today's 80 minutes.

Are you quoting from "The Press" again GG?

It kinda sums up the mentality of some Kiwis. Actually believing a jersey colour/style can influence performance. I admire McCaws attitude:

"If it comes down to what colour you wear determines how you play then we've got trouble," he said. Basically give me whatever jumper you like and we will win.

Pretty rich considering the debacle over England's absurd all black change strip. The busiest threads on here have been deluded English fans attempting to defend the indefensible around that. If the colour didn't matter, they should have stuck with their traditional colours and not tried to turn themselves into cheap NZ clones...even if half the team are kiwis.

Nonsense. McCaw should have been carded when he killed it on his own line. Houdini wouldn't have escaped a card there.

Watch it again. It wasn't McCaw. Except, apparently in your deluded mind.

TheGreyGhost wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:I predicted a return of the white collar. It was kind of inevitable in terms of the hoodoo surrounding the ABs and the RWC. I guess in this day and age an actual collar isn't practical.

I would've though the SAs were glad to see a priest after today's 80 minutes.

Are you quoting from "The Press" again GG?

It kinda sums up the mentality of some Kiwis. Actually believing a jersey colour/style can influence performance. I admire McCaws attitude:

"If it comes down to what colour you wear determines how you play then we've got trouble," he said. Basically give me whatever jumper you like and we will win.

Pretty rich considering the debacle over England's absurd all black change strip. The busiest threads on here have been deluded English fans attempting to defend the indefensible around that. If the colour didn't matter, they should have stuck with their traditional colours and not tried to turn themselves into cheap NZ clones...even if half the team are kiwis.

McCaw is a class above your average kiwi rugby fan hence the pointless Whinging

Christ on a bike, why are you STILL going on about colour of Englands new away shirt on a thread about the NZ v SA game today ?

Defend the indefensible?

Is this going to keep going all the way until the RWC? And during?

TGG you've got to let the change strip go, haven't you ever heard about imitation being the sincerest form of flattery?

I didn't bring it up the strips. Boomeranga asked if the new AB strip had a priest collar, it went on from there...Leinsterbaby then for some reason thought that was a good opportunity to attack NZ fans. I merely pointed out that NZ weren't alone in creating a strip for the RWC, and at least NZ had stuck with a traditional design rather than borrowing someone else's.

If anyone needs to let it go, it's you guys.

But I'm loving how McCaw is a class above, and yet a filthy cheat within the space of 2 posts.

Why not just admit NZ looked good day, or comment on how poor SA were, or anything, ANYTHING even vaguely to do with rugby, or constructive instead of just popping in to have a hack at NZ fans. Man, you guys are obsessed. I guess it's fear.

NZ were good today, They're terrific with ball in hand. I was hoping SA would make a game of it today at around 20-7 or something but alas they let in a try while on attack. Morne needs to work on his D. It could have been a lot worse for SA, the AB's looked like they were on a training run.

The comment was about the current NZ shirt on a thread about NZ v SA. Why the need to mention England at all ? I know why. One word. Obsession.

TheGreyGhost wrote:If anyone needs to let it go, it's you guys.

I'm an Aussie, I couldn't give a rodent's backside.

I guess you can join the conversation when the next Lions team rocks up in green and gold

Only if they start playing like us

I haven't seen the match yet, only bits and pieces, i wil watch it tomorrow, and give my opinion in the week, I am sure the All Blacks were very good and the Boks very bad.

The boks weren't that bad biltong...just watch the first half.

I saw the first try of the all Blacks and saw McCaw was standing on our side of the ruck puling players out, it also looked like nonu was blocking, but didn't see the replay, will check in slow motion tomorrow.

I also heard that morne steyn's defence was like a running tap.

biltongbek wrote: I also heard that morne steyn's defence was like a running tap.

it was more like a turnstile.

Full Credit wrote:

biltongbek wrote: I also heard that morne steyn's defence was like a running tap.

it was more like a turnstile.

The question is what will PDV do?

Steyn is obviously seriously off form, and certainly doesn't look like he has any confidence left.

Will PDV take Butch james and Lambie instead?

If I know PDV (and I don't) he'll do nothing.

Was surprised Steyn missed a sitter early in the match, then again Carter missed his fair share.

Lambie didn't look too bad tonight, thought he was called on a forward pass that could have been let go.

It was weird because you were replying to a neutral Irish poster GG... about England

We don't really care for England either. I just think its funny they are getting so much stick because they've signed the rights over to Nike to do what they want with their change strip. It's purely a financial decision, the vast variety of different colours, designed to make money by selling shirts. It's really not got anything to do with the Kiwis and never did

Back to the game- South Africa need to persevere with Lambie at 10. Steyn is just filling a jersey right now, and it was unfair really to stick him in at 15. He's an out and out 10- right call to back Lambie, would have tried something else with the fullback. The midfield looks better without Olivier, and Johnson and Ralepelle have the makings of good impact players, but by god they need a whole new pack of forwards, they need a settled defensive structure and they need their experienced players back. They looked like a scratch team and were mercilessly taken apart at times when they didn't have the ball. Add to that a malfunctioning set piece and losing the battle of the breakdown... not a good day for the Boks.

Notch wrote:It was weird because you were replying to a neutral Irish poster GG... about England

We don't really care for England either. I just think its funny they are getting so much stick because they've signed the rights over to Nike to do what they want with their change strip. It's purely a financial decision, the vast variety of different colours, designed to make money by selling shirts. It's really not got anything to do with the Kiwis and never did

Back to the game- South Africa need to persevere with Lambie at 10. Steyn is just filling a jersey right now, and it was unfair really to stick him in at 15. He's an out and out 10- right call to back Lambie, would have tried something else with the fullback. The midfield looks better without Olivier, and Johnson and Ralepelle have the makings of good impact players, but by god they need a whole new pack of forwards, they need a settled defensive structure and they need their experienced players back. They looked like a scratch team and were mercilessly taken apart at times when they didn't have the ball. Add to that a malfunctioning set piece and losing the battle of the breakdown... not a good day for the Boks.

I think, all in all, TriNations rugby boasts the fastest, most intense games of the test rugby arena. And South Africa just can't cope with that kind of pace with this B team.

Notch wrote:

Notch wrote:It was weird because you were replying to a neutral Irish poster GG... about England

We don't really care for England either. I just think its funny they are getting so much stick because they've signed the rights over to Nike to do what they want with their change strip. It's purely a financial decision, the vast variety of different colours, designed to make money by selling shirts. It's really not got anything to do with the Kiwis and never did

Back to the game- South Africa need to persevere with Lambie at 10. Steyn is just filling a jersey right now, and it was unfair really to stick him in at 15. He's an out and out 10- right call to back Lambie, would have tried something else with the fullback. The midfield looks better without Olivier, and Johnson and Ralepelle have the makings of good impact players, but by god they need a whole new pack of forwards, they need a settled defensive structure and they need their experienced players back. They looked like a scratch team and were mercilessly taken apart at times when they didn't have the ball. Add to that a malfunctioning set piece and losing the battle of the breakdown... not a good day for the Boks.

I think, all in all, TriNations rugby boasts the fastest, most intense games of the test rugby arena. And South Africa just can't cope with that kind of pace with this B team.

Yes, those guys have very little experience and those that can play at this level aren't enough to make up for the defensive blunders of the rest.

Notch, I absolutely agree. Lambie looked the real deal at 10. Morne is woeful. I would also consider Pienaar as fly-half cover too ahead of Steyn. Rossouw, Johnson, Ralepelle, Smit, Lambie and Jacobs have looked good over last weeks and this mornings game. These guys should keep their places in the squad and when injured players return the Bokke should be a force again.

Notch wrote:

Notch wrote:It was weird because you were replying to a neutral Irish poster GG... about England

We don't really care for England either. I just think its funny they are getting so much stick because they've signed the rights over to Nike to do what they want with their change strip. It's purely a financial decision, the vast variety of different colours, designed to make money by selling shirts. It's really not got anything to do with the Kiwis and never did

Back to the game- South Africa need to persevere with Lambie at 10. Steyn is just filling a jersey right now, and it was unfair really to stick him in at 15. He's an out and out 10- right call to back Lambie, would have tried something else with the fullback. The midfield looks better without Olivier, and Johnson and Ralepelle have the makings of good impact players, but by god they need a whole new pack of forwards, they need a settled defensive structure and they need their experienced players back. They looked like a scratch team and were mercilessly taken apart at times when they didn't have the ball. Add to that a malfunctioning set piece and losing the battle of the breakdown... not a good day for the Boks.

I think, all in all, TriNations rugby boasts the fastest, most intense games of the test rugby arena. And South Africa just can't cope with that kind of pace with this B team.

Australia's B team is nothing to write home about either! At least Dingo Deans had the decency not to subject us all to it again.

How did Deysel get on? I heard he played quite well, think he'll make the world cup squad?

flankertye

To be honest I can't remember seeing him much on the pitch. Had a good season but the only problem for Deysel is that he is in competition for 1 of probably 5 back row places against the following

Schalk Burger
Juan Smith
Pierre Spies
Williem Alberts
Heinrich Brussow
Danie Russouw
Ashley Johnson
Ryan Kankowski
Daune Vermeulen (think he will not make it through injury)

Danie Russouw may make it as a cover lock (very much like Martin Corry).

Think Deysel will not make it

I'd take

Schalk Burger
Willem Alberts
Pierre Spies (albeit well overrated)
Juan Smith (if fit)
Heinrich Brussow (if fit)

That was also not the nz A side as such.
We still have at least thorne, mealamu, o franks, Gear, woodcock, and read to return and also dagg and toeava for the bench.
gotta be pretty happy with our playing depth with sivi also to figure somewhere. Especiallly when considering the backups for SA and partcularly oz, who look very thin if key injuries to 9, 10,7 or 15 hit.

9, 10,7 or 15 hit

And New Zealand won't be struggling if they get injuries at 7 or 9?