How do you stop an In and out fighter?

Manny comes in throws 6/7 punch flurries he gets out and he moves laterally. That's the BASIS of manny.
What if you stop Manny from coming in?
What if you go after him? we know he can't fight going back backwards, he simply doesnt throw punches. We've seen this with another roach fighter Khan.
Manny cannot fight on the inside another flaw from Roach's teaching. Manny eats uppercuts all night.
We saw an elite level in and out fighter recently in the Pascal Hopkins fight. Pascal thought he'd have his way by just coming in and getting out against the slow past his prime hopkins.
What unfolded was Hopkins fighting completely out of character and went after Pascal, Pascal simply had no idea how to deal with this because his game plan was rendered useless - meaning he simply wasnt allowed to come in and get out at will, he wasnt allowed to come in at all.
It is important to hunt Manny and corner him. He like Khan is not defensively gifted. Their defence is their legs (and banging their gloves together and throwing wild flurries) they are hittable. If you come in after the manny attack and follow him - he'll struggle. I believe Floyd walks down Manny and stops him from coming in and getting out. Remember Manny hasnt got KO power @ 147, Floyd isn't there to be hit, his hand speed, defense,timing can't negative Manny's offence I believe this is a mismatch. Mosley will hunt Manny and if he was a little younger and fresher Id heavily favour him

I agree that hunting manny down is the key but he is just so quick on his feet that it is easier said than done. Look at the Margarito fight, ok I admit Margarito wasn't exactly charging at Manny but he was constantly trying to push forward only to receive a barrage of rapid punches on his way in. On the rare occassion he did corner Manny he had his best moments in the fight.
Floyd is by far more agile than margarito and has a much better defence so is less likely to take shots walking in but he is also a counter puncher so it would go against his style to hunt Pacman. It's been debated to death what would happen between those two but that is with good reason - it would be a great fight!
Manny vs Mosely I can only see going to Manny. His other strength is he throws punches from very unusual angles - Cotto said after their fight he simply did not know where the shots were coming from. I don't think we can say Manny doesn't have power - every weight he has fought at he has acheived knockouts. I still rate the knockout against Hatton as one of the best - pure class!
To beat Manny you have to be a seriously good counter puncher (which Floyd is) or you have to beat him at his own game and I can't think of anyone at present who can do that really!

Mosley will hunt Manny and if he was a little younger and fresher Id heavily favour him
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Don't agree if i'm honest mate, when you look at Mosley's record he has always had massive problems with guys with speed and good boxing fundamentals. Cotto outboxed him, so did Wright,Forrest,Mayweather and De La Hoya in the second fight. Mosley is a good fighter but not a great IMO, as for Manny not being good as an inside fighter, he took Cotto to the cleaners in the clinches and up close, he ripped him in almost every exchange.

Cheers Rodders

Rodney wrote: Mosley will hunt Manny and if he was a little younger and fresher Id heavily favour him
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Don't agree if i'm honest mate, when you look at Mosley's record he has always had massive problems with guys with speed and good boxing fundamentals. Cotto outboxed him, so did Wright,Forrest,Mayweather and De La Hoya in the second fight. Mosley is a good fighter but not a great IMO, as for Manny not being good as an inside fighter, he took Cotto to the cleaners in the clinches and up close, he ripped him in almost every exchange.

Cheers Rodders

hello rodbey, respectfully I'll have to disagree on your inside fighting theory. Cotto is not a relevant fighter at the elite level. He is better of facing below elite level guys like colottey, like foreman, chavez jr or mayorga.
I noticed on bbc 606 and maybe on here most people still rate cotto in my opinion (I may be wrong) he is finished I have said before that the beating he received from Margarito was so bad , so conclusive that he can no longer perform at the elite level. Again Ill point to Meldrick Taylor who was still a championship fighter after the 1st chavez fight but he wasn't the same. This is the same situation cotto's facing.
Margarito, even Hatton in that massacre had moments were he backed Manny up.
We have seen Floyd walk down Mosley so he is capable.

How do you stop an In and out fighter?

Easy. Hit him often as he goes in and out.

Hi Youarethegreatest

Respect your opinion mate, you maybe right but Cotto punch resistance legs still seem to be there, he took an almighty battering off Pacquiao but managed not to get starfished. I still see Cotto as an elite fighter in todays world anyhow, he'd beat Mosley again IMO if they were to face off however I fancy Margarito in the rematch if it happens this summer, can see the same result as the first time I'm afraid.

Cheers Rodders

My Wife manages to stop me getting in and out regularly...

I'll ask her to give you some advice!!

The key to beating an in and out fighter is timing. Time them coming in make them fall short and counter them like Marquez done.

Another thing you can do is look for movements in and out fighters make. Some like to bounce when they are outside than plant there feet to come in. This is easy to time but plenty of fighters are guilty of it.

Others have a habit of dipping their head either to the left or the right consistently. You can time this and catch them with a step to the side and a hook.

Lastly the one thing I think works every time is when the fighters steps out go with him. Follow him and punch, most in and out fighters aren't up to much going backwards.

Watch Starling-Honeyghan............and take notes..

Here's my two-cents:

Manny CAN fight on the back foot, he was able to do it against Margarito, against Cotto (in the first few rounds) and against Hatton.

He's LEAST effective when you circle away from his left and move laterally. Mosely exposed this and so has JMM (though he was willing to stand and counter).

The easiest way to beat Manny is to circle left, wait for him to come in, nail him with the straight right. On the inside, work body and uppercuts. When he wants to punch his gloves together to show he isn't hurt? Try the left hook straight.

Though you are 100% right about waiting to strike AFTER Manny throws his flurries. Watch Marquez vs Pacquaio 1. From the 4th or 5th round on, Marquez was waiting for Manny to bounce back and throws the lead right and chases him down.

Now we know why all these great fighters have failed to beat Manny!!

They didn't employ School project to show them the way!!

Actually, JMM did, that's why I was away from the board for a while. I was Marquez's shoe shine.

I also picked up a fair bit of Spanish from him, I told him about the boards and he told me "Trussman es un yanqui gordo" hehehe.

You may laugh but ironically a spinning back fist is in all seriousness the IDEAL technique to deal with in and out fighters.

The element of surprise and fainting are all employed in this technique.

When they are not surprised...you faint!!!!!!!!

School Project wrote:Actually, JMM did, that's why I was away from the board for a while. I was Marquez's shoe shine.

I also picked up a fair bit of Spanish from him, I told him about the boards and he told me "Trussman es un yanqui gordo" hehehe.

A man of few words, eh. I would have thought he may have added "feo", "pelado" and "tonto" to the description

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My Wife manages to stop me getting in and out regularly...

I'll ask her to give you some advice!!

Vintage Trussman.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:You may laugh but ironically a spinning back fist is in all seriousness the IDEAL technique to deal with in and out fighters.

The element of surprise and fainting are all employed in this technique.

and now vintage ONETWO!

In answer to the OP, I'd have to say timing of the jab, first and foremost. A well timed jab will often negate the speed and make them think twice about rashly jumping in again.

Youarethegreatest wrote:
Remember Manny hasnt got KO power @ 147

I'd challenge that assumption. Are you basing it on the fact he didn't knock out Clottey, Cotto, Margarito, Mosley etc? Clottey was like a turtle in his shell and never opened up. Cotto's harder than a coffin nail. He clearly eased up on Margarito in the last couple of rounds out of sympathy. He was too friendly with Mosley to be really ruthless and knock him out.

I think he's more than capable of KO power around 147lbs, but he doesn't have that ruthless streak to really punish opponents.

A great jab and intelligent footwork are two important tools required to beat an ambush fighter.

Uppercuts also play their part.

Group Cpt Lionel Mandrake wrote:

Youarethegreatest wrote:
Remember Manny hasnt got KO power @ 147

I'd challenge that assumption. Are you basing it on the fact he didn't knock out Clottey, Cotto, Margarito, Mosley etc? Clottey was like a turtle in his shell and never opened up. Cotto's harder than a coffin nail. He clearly eased up on Margarito in the last couple of rounds out of sympathy. He was too friendly with Mosley to be really ruthless and knock him out.

I think he's more than capable of KO power around 147lbs, but he doesn't have that ruthless streak to really punish opponents.

Nonsense.

He hasnt knocked anyone out at 147. You can make excuses for anything.

Manny has a lot of power at 147, it comes partially from the speed and the suprising angles he throws punches, the thing is a lot of them are bracing for the shots as Manny throws about 5-6 punches at once. When he caught Cotto with the uppercut he was moving backwards, hell of an uppercut a lot of power to do it. Only punch he landed clean on Mosley decked him and he was clearly completely shocked at what had happened. 7 pounds below sparking Hatton out easy enough. Marg has one of the best chins in the game and was prepared to walk through hell to get to him with what a 20 pound advantage?

Personally I believe the man has real KO power in his gloves.

As for how to beat in and out fighters, well it's difficult to say, as there isn't really one single answer and if you're a boxer you have certain strengths and certain weaknesses that you have to adhere to. There are very few complete fighters and those are the likes of the Mayweathers and Whittakers of this world who can do next to anything technically.

In term sof beating Manny, I've commented on it a million times before, and I agree with everything School Project says, it is THE way, watch the first Morales fight, circling to the left and was able to fire back at him, Barrera 2 circled to the left, wasn't able to do enough to win as he was pretty much past it by this stage but he showed glaring weaknesses and showed as to how Manny didn't understand how to approach a guy circling to the left. Last example is Marquez, first round in the trilogy, tried to push him back he got spanked, he changed tactics used his movement, the last one was the nail on the head as to how to beat Manny. He just used his incredible tactical nause (sp) this was a man that at lightweight had been pushed into a real dogfight with a good fighter but most certainly not great in the likes of Katsidis and Diaz, but yet was able to tame a great 147 in Pac. It's all about tactics, picking your moments waiting for the flurries and making them fall short, quick counters and have respectable enough power to back him up every now and then, using yuor good jab to suprise him to stop him coming in, and decent enough head movement.

Manny hits too hard and you probably end up getting knocked out like cotto did. When backed up, both Khan and Pacquiao put the gloves up and let you hit them (wide Open for uppercuts.

The way to beat Pacquiao is to do what Marquez did, he has done it arguably three times, forget the decision.

johnson2 wrote:

Group Cpt Lionel Mandrake wrote:

Youarethegreatest wrote:
Remember Manny hasnt got KO power @ 147

I'd challenge that assumption. Are you basing it on the fact he didn't knock out Clottey, Cotto, Margarito, Mosley etc? Clottey was like a turtle in his shell and never opened up. Cotto's harder than a coffin nail. He clearly eased up on Margarito in the last couple of rounds out of sympathy. He was too friendly with Mosley to be really ruthless and knock him out.

I think he's more than capable of KO power around 147lbs, but he doesn't have that ruthless streak to really punish opponents.

Nonsense.

He hasnt knocked anyone out at 147. You can make excuses for anything.

I didn't say he had knocked anyone out at 147, but I suspect he's more than capable of doing it, he just hasn't in the fights I mentioned above for the reasons I believe.

I agree with the circle left concensus.

The biggest difference between a Manny-style in/out fighter and a Pascal is that one of Pacquiao's greatest strengths is one of Pascal's most glaring weaknesses: Workrate. Pascal is fast and powerful and works in bursts, usually dropping off in the second half of a bout. Guys like that hate pressure, hate guys who make them work 3 minutes a round, that's why Hopkins hunting him was so effective. I don't see anyone at welterweight who can go to Pacquiao and win, that's exactly what he wants.

Agreed. Manny looks as fresh in round 12 as he does in the first. His fitness is off the scale.