Rate these 10 Super Middleweights

First topic message reminder :

For this list i've mixed up the old with the new and even though it might a bit unfair on the fighters that are still active... in what order would you rate them?

Who'd finish top and who would be bottom of the pile?

Chris Eubank
Carl Froch
Nigel Benn
Andre Ward
Joe Calzaghe
Mikkel Kessler
Michael Watson
Roy Jones Jnr
Steve Collins
Sven Ottke

JDandfries wrote:Froch's wins over Taylor, Abraham, Pascal, Johnson and Dirrel are better than anything Calzaghe fought, except for Kessler and Hopkins (which he lost IMO) and Lacey. You can certainly discount most of his opponents as low qulity, and Eubank and Reid were washed up!

AND in his 3rd last fight, when he was supposed to be God, Calzaghe fought Peter Mafredo, he should have been arressted for that!

Reid washed up? Cant say I agree with that. He was never that great to begin with but cant agree he was washed up.

Will say again that Im not sure why Abraham and Johnson for instance are held in such high regard. Johnson was 42 and had lost to pretty much everyone decent at light heavy. If you say Eubank and Reid were washed up then equally it could be argued that Taylor was also and had barely even won a fight at Super Middleweight. Abraham was exposed as being pretty limited and probably not suited to Super Middleweight anyhow.

Im not trying to belittle Frochs wins, but it seems inconsistent to me to paint wins over a veteran like Johnson or an fairly average Abraham as vastly superior to many of Calzaghes wins or to accuse Eubank and Reid as being washed up but somebody like Taylor as top of his game.

For me the Taylor win and Eubank win are pretty much comparable (worth pointing out that Calzaghe wasnt outboxed for large periods also.)

The Johnson and Abraham wins are probably the 3rd/4th/5th best wins of Frochs career bracket and I wouldnt consider them miles above the equivalents in Calzaghes best wins colums.

Reid washed up when Joe fought him???

Think your getting Joe mixed up with Froch

It also seems to have become common place for the anti JC mob to claim Hopkins beat JC, he won a points decison in America, against the champ, who tried to cheat his way across the finishing line because the fight had turned against him. Hopkins then went on to make what was the original line from the anti JC brigade, about him being old and past it, look like nonsense.

Everyone seems to have ranked Eubank and Benn above Collins. I'm not the biggest boxing fan in the world but didn't Collins beat both of them?

drive4show wrote:Everyone seems to have ranked Eubank and Benn above Collins. I'm not the biggest boxing fan in the world but didn't Collins beat both of them?

Right place right time mate

Day V Lately wrote:

drive4show wrote:Everyone seems to have ranked Eubank and Benn above Collins. I'm not the biggest boxing fan in the world but didn't Collins beat both of them?

Right place right time mate

Maybe but you could say that about pretty much any fight. I seem to remember Benn, Eubank, Collins and Watson all being around at the same time and having a whole series of fights against each other.

I'd put Collins at the top of those 4.

Collin's beat Benn and Eubank on the slide.

Calzaghe beat Jones jr, David Diaz beat Morales, doesnt give them the better legacy.

I rate Collins, he was tough as hell, but I'd still have himk below Benn and Eubank

Day V Lately wrote:Collin's beat Benn and Eubank on the slide.

Calzaghe beat Jones jr, David Diaz beat Morales, doesnt give them the better legacy.

I rate Collins, he was tough as hell, but I'd still have himk below Benn and Eubank

That's fair enough, it's all about opinions and I respect yours.

But you're wrong

Eubank and Benn are above Collins and by a fair distance too.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:So it's better to fight a fighter coming off a loss than an undefeated one?

Suppose beating the highly rated Dawson was being at the right place at the right time

Yep it kinda was. Strange as Dawson was ranked 8th by the Ring Magazine when Pascal beat him but Pascal didn't inherit Dawson's spot when he beat Dawson. Strange that. The Ring Mag (the experts) must have taken the view that Dawson lost through having a mare rather than Pascal won through being outstanding. It's all relative, not going to argue anymore but a convincing win against Brewer was a good win for Calzaghe at the time, rate Pascal as highly as you want, I have never rated Jean Claude personally. I was saying on ESB for ages that BHop would beat him much against the general flow of opinion who felt Pascal would be too much to chew.

Besides Brewer was coming off a win before he met Calzaghe.

Dawson was ranked number one by the ring magazine at the time of the Pascal fight who was ranked number hence why the ring lineal championship was on the line or am I mistaken on that?

I said all along that Pascal would lose to Hopkins and regardless of age he's still a phenomenal fighter so there is absolutely no shame in that but I suppose beating the divisions 1 and 3 in Dawson and Diaconu is an irrelevance not to mention being the first man in 15 years to floor Hopkins.

Brewer was coming off a win over some guy called Zuniga having been blasted out by Echols earlier in the year, that is some form going into a world title fight

Are you Welsh, Boon?

Colonial Lion wrote:I think to a certain extent some of Frochs wins have been glamourised due to the Super Six format.

Abraham and Johnson in particular I would rate as little better than much of Calzaghes opposition. Pascal is Frochs best win for me but ranks some way below Calzaghes victories over an unbeaten Kessler and Hopkins at light heavyweight. One of whom beat Froch and the other of which beat Pascal.I thought Calzaghe got slightly lucky beating Hopkins but notwithstanding overall the results suggest to me he was a notch up from Froch and Kessler who rank below.

Froch still has time though and wins over Ward and Kessler would certainly give him a strong argument to rival or surpass Calzaghe.

I agree.

The mainstream boxing concensus of Froch has been helped by the fact that his big fights have come immediately one after the other, while Calzaghe on the other hand tended to have a few soft defences in between his better opponents.

Overall though, I'd say that Froch's wins over Taylor, G Johnson and Abraham are quite similar and comparable to Joe's wins over Eubank, Bika and Lacy.

However, its the Welshman's victories over Hopkins and Kessler that stand out on his record and currently place him firmly above Froch in any ranking.

Apologies on Watson... forgot that he only had just the one at Super Middle.

Been some good dabate.

1. Roy Jones Jnr - ofcourse

(indicating big gulf in class)

2. Joe Calzaghe
3. Chris Eubank
4. Nigel Benn
5. Carl Froch
6. Mikkel Kessler
7. Andre Ward
8. Steve Collins
9. Michael Watson
10. Sven Ottke
.