Your starter for ten...

A simple question: Is there anything that Stephen Jones would have done if he'd played today that Rhys Priestland didn't?

Honestly.....no. Maybe got the conversion but that's it.

It just occured to me, Dreamer. I don't think he would have added anything, and I say that as someone who has a lot of time for Stephen Jones. Priestland did very well indeed.

No I thought Priestland was superb, though clearly England's game plan wasn't going to be to run at Stephen Jones because he is such a strong defender, so I can't see England changing their tactics to target Priestland a few minutes before kick off so they stuck to their game plan in trying to have forwards hitting the 10-12 channel.
As much as it affected Wales, England too would of planned to be playing against Stephen Jones so it worked both ways. Priestland is far more expansive, and much faster in attack, and this caught England out several times.
Priestland enhanced his credentials but if it's announced he is playing at 10 next week, England will plan for that too and maybe try and go at him a bit more.

Its a conundrum.

Who plays next week?

Preistland hasnt figured at 10 and wont be in Gats plans - but was excellent today and played better than ive seen from Hook or Jones recently

Hook needs gametime at 10 if he is to be considered there.

Jones will need gametime at 10 if he is going to play there at the WC.

We also need a FB, is Byrne fit (do we want Byrne?)

Its a tough choice.

Same here Lucky, Stevo's my favourite player but I don't feel like we actually missed him (which I sometimes have when others have started instead of him at 10)

I was hugely impressed by Priestland today. I was really worried for him, getting his first start for Wales and only finding out 5 mins before kick off he'd be at 10, and he handled it really well. Great composure by him. A bit positionally poor sometimes but he didn't look out of his depth at all. Great introduction to full on test rugby for him I think, and definitely put a marker down for the likes of Hook and Tovey to try and beat.

That's an excellent point, Alyn.

Yeah, v good point Alyn. Although I think they did start running more down the 10 channel in the 2nd half, I think our backrow are quick enough as well to help Priestland out in that area if he does end up getting targetted.

wales606, Lee Byrne's solid under the high ball and he's good coming in to the line, but he's stopped looking to counter-attack, if he ever looked to counter-attack. He'll just kick the ball away. I wish we had an alternative, but I don't think we do this close to the World Cup. James Hook's no full back, that's for sure.

Actually Im quite pleased by that result, For me next weeks team should look somthing like this

1. Gethin
2. Burns(Rees if fit)
3. Adam Jones
4. Charteris
5. Bradley
6. Lydiate.
7. Warburton
8. Delve
9. Phillips (Lloyd Williams to come on second half)
10. Hook
11. Brew (needs gametime now stoddart is out)
12. Gavin
13. Roberts (who I thought played better today than he has done for 2 years)
14. North
15. Byrne

16. Paul James
17. Bennett (who amazingly did ok today)
18. Ryan
19. Tipuric
20. Lloyd Williams
21. Priestland.
22. Scott Williams.

Stoddart is a big loss as he was a shoe in for the squad covering fullback and wing but t gives Brew a chance.

Tycroes, do you think Bradley Davies played well today? I thought he was average at best. He made no ground and lumbered about the place - he's a shadow of the player he was when he made his debut for Wales.

watched bradley carefully, and hes not making the hard yards he was but does a lot of work clearing out and around the breakdown and in the tackle, although i think he missed one for tuilagis try.

The problem is imo that charteris needs an enforcer alongside him for the partnership to work, Ryan is an option in that role but he is so much shorter he would destabilise the scrum. If your not going to play bradley then I think Ryan and AWJ is a better fit.

I like charteris as a player and think he gives us some security in the lineout, he works hard and has improved no end. On top of that I have his jersey from when he first broke into the welsh squad years ago. However the pairing i the second row is so important. As I want to see Luke play I therefore picked Bradley alongside him.

Fair point, Tycroes. I'd prefer to see Charteris play than Alun Wyn, too.

TycroesOsprey wrote:Actually Im quite pleased by that result, For me next weeks team should look somthing like this

I don't want to sound pedantic but Wales did lose! and that should never make you pleased, and worse we lost to England! Which generally annoys the hell into me.
Also consider Wales had pretty much 10 or so first choice players on the field, compared to 3-4 for England. Wales number could raise from 8 to 10-11 if you take into account James and Mitchell have been standing in for several seasons while Gethin and Adam have been out with long term injuries. So I'm certainly not pleased.
I take comfort in the fact we weren't stuffed out of sight which Wales have a track record of doing in non 6 Nations games against England and Wales did try and play attacking rugby and score tries, which is something we haven't seen much of lately.

We lost away, with a second choice front row, third choice outside half, no fullback for a large part of the gamea twenty year old at no 8 and still scored three tries.

Roberts had the best game hes had in years for wales.

The lineout which I had really feared for before the match went better than expected, the scrum just about held its own.

and we lost by four points in a game we could have won as a first match out in a couple of months Im pretty pleased. would have been better had we won but thats a good start for us and I would expect a win next week with the team I put up. Whoever England choose.

Whilst priestland did very well, an injury during the warmup leading to a reshuffle is always going to limit a team somewhat.

wales606 wrote:Its a conundrum.

Who plays next week?

Preistland hasnt figured at 10 and wont be in Gats plans - but was excellent today and played better than ive seen from Hook or Jones recently

Hook needs gametime at 10 if he is to be considered there.

Jones will need gametime at 10 if he is going to play there at the WC.

We also need a FB, is Byrne fit (do we want Byrne?)

Its a tough choice.

For me and if fit Hook has to start next week though it will be unfair on Priestland.

I don't think he was ever more than 3rd choice 10 in Gatlands plans so he may well have put a spanner in the works today. Despite the loss there was some good momentum and positives to take form today so he has to be guarded against whole sale changes.

That said there are players that definately need game time if they are to put thier case forward.

Thing is with Priestland we now really need to see him at full back with Stoddarts injury. more than ever we need backup for Byrne at full back or we will be stuck with Hook there.

TycroesOsprey wrote:Thing is with Priestland we now really need to see him at full back with Stoddarts injury. more than ever we need backup for Byrne at full back or we will be stuck with Hook there.

Henson needs to be given a game also, why not at Full back? It will be easier for him than Center.

I believe Preistland is much better than S Jones at 10 and I believe S Jones has not had a game as good as today's performance in three years, I think Preistland should stay at 10 we have wasted too much time with S Jones we know what he can do and not do, he should be a bench player at best. If S Jones was 10 today I don't believe we would be within 15 points of England.

I'd play Priestland at 15 next week despite today. Chances are Gatland will want to give Wellies and Hook a start anyway and Priestland's best chance of a start is still 15.

He played so well at ten this week of course, but he needs to be tried now where he was meant to start. Give him next week and hopefully make Byrne switch on against the Argentinians.

[quote="AlynDavies"]

TycroesOsprey wrote:
Also consider Wales had pretty much 10 or so first choice players on the field, compared to 3-4 for England. Wales number could raise from 8 to 10-11 if you take into account James and Mitchell have been standing in for several seasons while Gethin and Adam have been out with long term injuries. So I'm certainly not pleased.

What a load of cobblers.

Wales and England both had probably half a first choice team out.

And you can't tell anyone that Mitchell has usurped jones at tighthead. Seriously that is a ridiculous statement.

What on earth are you on about this front row playing for a couple of seasons???

Mitchell played this year. James last year. Bennet has never been a first choice hooker at club or national level.

Maesteg. Wales had more first teamers playing than England. I think only 4 of the England team played against Ireland. I'd say Wales had 8 first teamers and I agree with tycroes. That front row could well play against south Africa, due to injuries. Paul janes had featured heavily for Wales in the last 2 years. There have been times when Bennett been first choice for Wales and the ospreys. Its funny. Bennetts normally fairly good in the loose and poor at throwing, But the reverse happened yesterday.
I'd expect a stronger England team next week and possibly a completely new back-line. I expect to see charteris start. Ryan jones in at 8. But with the knock to Stephen jones and stoddart now unavailable. It will beinteresting to see who plays 10 and 15.

The OP thread is a simple question albeit a loaded question.

So having just watched the game. The answer must be YES, few simple things.

STRUCTURE
Looseplay - Wales were caught out a number of time in the loose, you always see Jones telling and urging his players if they (normally the forwards) if they are not providing support. An example is the first penalty given away (Lydiate and Brad Davies)

Positioning - After the 1st Wales try, there was 10-15 mins of intense pressure around the breakdown and middle of the park, and another example was Lydiates position in the scrum and his back up cover when Haskell scored if you looked at Phillips he was on the right side for cover next to Shane and then looked up and run to the other side of the scrum as Priestland / Roberts were not in position. The Tuilagi try was a combo of very poor defending I mean he went through James and AWJ as if they were youth players, but the try was made by Wilkinsons sniping run through the 10/12 channel , and reverse pass....... where was the half back cover?.

EXPERIENCE
Take Wilkinson and his two drop goals, contrast that with Warburton making two runs when the option was on for 6 points. Wales were never behind by that much, and yet on occasions you made the wrong call, running instead of going for the %age game, as Gatland said its a shame that the conversion didnt go over as two points meant then you would have made those right calls.

So the answer is Yes............. Jones would certainly have tinkered with a few things during those 80 mins and they might have made a difference

I was disappointed by James yesterday has he has been playing really well for us.

If Jones is fit then Jones plays simple as IMO.

If fit it has to be Jones, he is still Wales best 10. Priestland must now play 15, with Stoddard out and Byrne not playing well he must get a try out.

The other issue in the backs is that both first choice centres are 12s. So if Hook is fit he could play 13 outside JD2 or Roberts.

Up front Wales will need Adam Jones to shore up the scrums. Also Lydiate works his socks off but for me looks to struggle for pace at test level. Macusker would be an option but please not JT or Buggy Boy.

glamorganalun wrote:I believe Preistland is much better than S Jones at 10 and I believe S Jones has not had a game as good as today's performance in three years, I think Preistland should stay at 10 we have wasted too much time with S Jones we know what he can do and not do, he should be a bench player at best. If S Jones was 10 today I don't believe we would be within 15 points of England.

I agree. We should play Hook at 10 with Priestland as the cover. SJ has had his day. If WG did do that (which he won't) then I would start the Eng game with 1/2P at FB. Then we would either have Hook or Priestland as our 10s with either Byrne, Priestland or 1/2P at FB. This will not be the case though as WG will go with SJ on Saturday and the also start with hime against SA no doubt with Phillips at SH.

maestegmafia wrote:
What a load of cobblers.

Wales and England both had probably half a first choice team out.

And you can't tell anyone that Mitchell has usurped jones at tighthead. Seriously that is a ridiculous statement.

What on earth are you on about this front row playing for a couple of seasons???

Mitchell played this year. James last year. Bennet has never been a first choice hooker at club or national level.

I never said Mitchell usurped Jones at any point, I said "James and Mitchell have been standing in for several seasons while Gethin and Adam have been out with long term injuries". Wales have introduced a lot of young players in recent years under Gatland and many of those have cemented their places in the team. I'm not trying to belittle my own country by saying Wales had a lot of first choices out and England played a reserves side, but it's common sense that Warburton, Lydiate, North, Davies, while first choice for Wales are International novices, and needs as much experience as possible.