So What We All Think, Positives & Negatives & Changes

by bedfordwelsh Sat 06 Aug 2011, 6:45 pm

This is a Welsh POV

First off I said if we can be with in a score of Egngland at HQ I would be happy.

If you offered me that at half time I would have bitter your arm off - we were down n out of it.

England for the most were far more physical than us but thought we were the fitter at the end which is a good sign.

I wasn't before the game to worried about James and Mitchell starting but now we have to have Jenkins and Jones back with Burns (unless Rees is fit) between them. For me he proved he's better than Bennett even in his short time. Though in all fairness it was one of Bennetts better games.

Priestland for me, had a cracking game, considering he had 10 minutes notice he was playing there.

Back row were very good but AWJ & Davies need rocket up their proverbial.

North is set to stay IMO.

Am a bit unsure about what changes we should make next week, because too many could upset any positivesf from today but there are clearly players like Henson, Delve, L Williams, Brew and the like that need gametime if they are to be given a fair crack at getting on the plane.

For me I would def -

Give R Jones a crack in 2nd row

And for me even as a Dragons fan give Delve a start at 8 next week.

Rees or Burns in between Geth an Adam

by wales606 Sat 06 Aug 2011, 8:15 pm

Id try this....

1. G.Jenkins
2. H.Bennett
3. A.Jones
4. B.Davies
5. R.Jones
6. D.Lydiate
7. S.Warburton
8. G.Delve
9. T.Knoyle
10. J.Hook
11. S.Williams
12. J.Roberts
13. J.Davies
14. G.North
15. R.Preistland/G.Henson

16. R.Bevington
17. L.Burns
18. A.W.Jones
19. T.Faletau
20. M.Phillips
21. R.Preistland/G.Henson
22. S.Williams

by majesticimperialman Sat 06 Aug 2011, 8:36 pm

I think it would be foolish to play Henson at 15 to be honest, He is a much better centre than he is a fullback.

Your front row needs strenghtening for a start,you need a quicker scrum half Phillips seems a bit slow these days.

Shane still has those amazing dancing feet and North is starting to look the real deal...Will Half penny be fit for next weeks clash?

Personaly speaking i thought it was a good game, it was not a high scoring game but a win is a win, and we(England)look forward too next week.

by Taffineastbourne Sat 06 Aug 2011, 8:44 pm

Charteris and Ryan MUST start at 2nd row.Rees if fit should have a go at2 if not,Burns.Bennett is at best average and usually useless.
Give Williams a go at 9,with Phillips on the bench.Delve at 8 with Toby benched.
Henson must play centre or pack up and go home.
Adam and Geth,if fit should start.
Brew should start with Shane on bench.
1/2p at fullback.

by Totallybiasedscarlet Sat 06 Aug 2011, 8:46 pm

Roberts at full back for me. We need cover there and Roberts has the stature to make it his own for the next few years.

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 06 Aug 2011, 8:49 pm

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:Roberts at full back for me. We need cover there and Roberts has the stature to make it his own for the next few years.

Agree with that. Byrne has not looked international class since 2009, and by playing Roberts there Wales could have a better balance in midfield by pairing either Hook or Henson with JD2.

by Totallybiasedscarlet Sat 06 Aug 2011, 8:54 pm

LDCPete wrote:
Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:Roberts at full back for me. We need cover there and Roberts has the stature to make it his own for the next few years.

Agree with that. Byrne has not looked international class since 2009, and by playing Roberts there Wales could have a better balance in midfield by pairing either Hook or Henson with JD2.

That's exactly my thinking. I think Wales' midfield becomes less fluent when we depend on the old battering

much better when we had the dual physical and passing capabilities of JD2 and Scott Williams today.

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 06 Aug 2011, 9:04 pm

Gatland has some real decisions to make over the next two games that I think will ultimately decide how far Wales go at the World Cup.

The way I see it, if everyone is fit, there are a number of shirts that you have definite nailed on 1st choice starters in...

1. Jenkins
2. Rees
3. A. Jones
4. Davies
5. AW. Jones
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton

10. S.Jones (although Priestland looked good today and should get another shot at it next week.)
11. S.Williams

For me the 8, 9, 12,13, 14 and 15 shirts are up for grabs.

Here is how I would like to see Gatland play it over the next 2 games.

8. Delve/Faletau
9. Knoyle
12. JD2/Henson
13. Hook/JD2
14. Halfpenny/North
15. Roberts/Halfpenny

JD2 I think has to be in there in the midfield, the question is who partners him. I prefer him at 12, and thought Hook looked good at 13 outside of Roberts last year, so think it could work equally well with him outside Davies. With Roberts at fullback they have a solid presence there as well.

by Shifty Sat 06 Aug 2011, 9:15 pm

wales606 wrote:Id try this....

1. G.Jenkins
2. H.Bennett
3. A.Jones
4. B.Davies
5. R.Jones

I wouldn't have Ryan jumping in the middle to be honest mate. Bradley is decent, but to put Ryan with him will mean we get walloped in the lineouts next week. Even when he plays front jumper with Alun-Wyn Jones for the Ospreys the line outs can be a bit iffy against solid teams.

majesticimperialman wrote:I think it would be foolish to play Henson at 15 to be honest, He is a much better centre than he is a fullback

Possibly, but England only had one game plan today, charge straight at the Welsh defence. Would you rather Roberts or Henson trying to stop them?
Henson at Full Back can pick his lines and used his passing game and rugby brain to release players. If you do horses for courses I think Henson may be a better option for full back for a home game against England.

by RubyGuby Sat 06 Aug 2011, 10:05 pm

Henson would be a liability anywhere other than centre - Todays side was raw but there's a good nucleus. Here's mine for next week.

Id try this....

1. G.Jenkins
2. H.Bennett / M Rees
3. A.Jones
4. B.Davies
5. AWJ
6. D.Lydiate
7. S.Warburton
8. Faletau/G.Delve (20 mins for Delve)
9. T.Knoyle
10. S. Jones
11. A. Brew
12. J.Roberts/ Henson (20mins)
13. J.Davies/ S. Williams
14. G.North
15. Byrne/R.Preistland

by Guest Sun 07 Aug 2011, 10:51 am

I thought the game went quite well for Wales, it wasnt as frustrating to watch as previous games, we took our tries well, the 2 North tries were pretty clinically finished.

Given the experience of some of the players I thought we had done well.

Priestland - Thought he played pretty well given the notice he had that he was starting at outside half.
Faletau - Still a bit raw, but has bags of potential, I can see him developping into a very good 8 for us.
J. Davies - He defended well, and did his job in setting up attacks but he wasnt a threat, not the type of threat he is in the Magners.
Tavis Knoyle - Again a raw youngster, he needs more game time, but I would like to see Lloyd Williams get some time next week.

I was also a little confused when Stoddart was replaced by Scott Williams, did he play in the centre with Roberts at Fullback? It didnt look like he played outside half.

by Draigoch Sun 07 Aug 2011, 11:02 am

IronMike wrote:I was also a little confused when Stoddart was replaced by Scott Williams, did he play in the centre with Roberts at Fullback? It didnt look like he played outside half.

In defense Priestland went to full-back because he's got the kicking ability/positional experience to deal with England's kicking game with Scott Williams filling in his place in the line. When in attack Priestland came back at 10 and Jamie went to full-back.

by doctor_grey Sun 07 Aug 2011, 11:16 am

I would think the biggest question for Wales is how to get Priestland more time at out half with the main squad. At club level he sometime looked fantastic and others rather static. So, I would want to get him as much match time as possible. But the question which follows is how to ensure SJ is in game shape and comfortable with the squad (low risk there) and also test Hook one last time. There really is no one else. Stevie is still the starter but if Priestland can continue good form, he can come off and give a kick in the bum, eh?

by TycroesOsprey Sun 07 Aug 2011, 12:27 pm

I think people are being a bit crazy with some of their suggestions.

Roberts as a full back is a liability, yep hes fast and strong i the tackle, cant kick very well however neither can shane and North simply doesnt kick so that would leave us with no real defensive kicker in the back three.

On top of that Roberts played excellently yesterday drawing defenders to him and allowing the ball to be recycled quickly so moving him to full back would remove a potent weapon ffrom our midfield.

Scott Williams is not ready. His contribution to the game involved missed tackles and passing into touch in the England 22 with four players outside him.

My team would be somthing like this

1. Gethin
2. Burns
3 Adam
4. Bradley
5. Charteris
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Delve
9. Phillips
10. Hook
11. Brew
12, Gavin
13. Roberts
14. North
15. Byrne

16. Paul James
17. Bennett
18. Ryan
19. Faletau
20.Lloyd Williams
21. Priestland
22. Wellies

That allows us to look at both Hook and Stephen at outside half and give Priestland a look at full back where he is a genuine contender for a spot with Stoddarts injury and Byrnes form questionable. Honestly at home I think that team can beat anything England puts out.

by GavinDragon Sun 07 Aug 2011, 12:30 pm

gethin
burns
jones
davies
charteris
turnball (is he even in the squad?)
tupuric
delve

knoyle
hook
brew
henson
jd
halfpenny
byrne

for me its simple look at the other players in squad who havent had game time

by TycroesOsprey Sun 07 Aug 2011, 1:45 pm

GavinDragon wrote:gethin

for me its simple look at the other players in squad who havent had game time

Then why have Knoyle in your team? Knoyle got a good 25 mins yesterday, Phillips is first choice and after not playing for the Os needs more time and Lloyd Williams looks like hes going to be thrid scrum half in the party so he needs to be on the bench to get some time as well.

by GavinDragon Sun 07 Aug 2011, 1:53 pm

think knoyle deserves a start with lloyd williams getting 30mins or so, could always have lloyd williams on the bench for the argie game to get 20 mins or so as well,

by Seagultaf Sun 07 Aug 2011, 1:59 pm

Too many changes will result in Wales getting crushed. I was biterly dissapointed that Wales failed to beat a very ordinary England side yesterday.

Priestland must play 15 with Jones if fit at 10. Hook if fit could play 13 outside either JD2 or Roberts. Gethin and Adam must play if fit anf I would like to see some experience in the back row. Possibly Jones or Delve at 8.

by deadfred Sun 07 Aug 2011, 2:02 pm

Given the horrible injury yesterday i think our FB options are now one of the key things Gats has to get right.

I would play Priestland there on Sat and possibly have a look at 1/2P for the second half.

What me must not do is put Henson or Hook at FB as its a total waste of their talents.

Front 5 is also an issue and we need to look at different lock combinations as well as Jenks and Jones coming back to front row (Bennet was 14/14 at the the lineouts yesterday!)

Tactically we have to start counter rucking!!! We just let England have the ball for the its half and just lined up to tackle them without putting any real pressure on the tackle area.

Unfortunately, the injury to SJ before the game has messed up the selection plans quite a bit. We now have not seen Priestland at FB so If he starts there on Sat then Byrne will have 1 game before SA to get up too speed.

My backs would be: L.Williams, J.Hook, S.Williams, G.Henson, J.Roberts, L.Halfpenny and Priesltand.

by bedfordwelsh Sun 07 Aug 2011, 2:07 pm

dead,

Have said for ages that he needs to look at Halfpenny at XV. Agree with NOT putting Henson there.

I would give Priestland and Halfpenny a half each maybe.

by TycroesOsprey Sun 07 Aug 2011, 2:07 pm

Ded other than shane who Ithink should be wrapped in cotton wool and we need to look at Brew, your backline is what I would like to see finish teh game but I would have Lloyd W and Preistland on teh bench to come on.

by deadfred Sun 07 Aug 2011, 2:18 pm

TycroesOsprey wrote:Ded other than shane who Ithink should be wrapped in cotton wool and we need to look at Brew, your backline is what I would like to see finish teh game but I would have Lloyd W and Preistland on teh bench to come on.

Makes sense. We just need to make sure the Shane is in top form against SA so we may need to risk him again in one of the two games coming - but yes please God don't let him get injured before we play SA. angel

by Londonwelsh Sun 07 Aug 2011, 2:53 pm

Positives
Rhys Preistland did a good job at 10. When we heard in the stadium he was starting ahead of the injured Jones we had our heads in our hands but credit to him. He was chucked in at the deep end and the boy did well. Huw Bennett actually had a decent game for a change! Warburton was very good for the last 20 mins, Scott Williams did well out of position, Ryan Jones came on and did a good job, AWJ worked hard and of course North bagged 2 tries and caused England a few problems. JD2 had one of his better games for Wales and put in a good hit on Jonny Wilkinson. It wasnt the thumping that some had predicted and Wales finished the game stronger. We also looked a lot fitter due to the Polish training camps. England looked tired in the last 20 mins. We did ok yesterday and came away with some credit. Plenty to work on for next week.

Negatives
I thought the front row was weak yesterday. The scrum wasn’t that good yesterday. Paul James struggled and was brushed aside by Tuilagi en route to his try Craig Mitchell was awful yesterday. He bumped into his own man, missed a couple of important tackles and failed to keep straight in the scrum. Yet again another average performance from Mike Phillips. Although Knoyle's inexperience showed with a couple of silly errors we had much quicker ball and looked a lot more lively and dangerous when in England's 22. I read a couple of papers this morning that said Phillips played well. All I saw at Twickenham was yet another average game from Phillips. Charteris was dreadful when he came on. I dont care what any Dragons fans says or anyone else for that matter, never in a month of Sundays is Luke Charteris an International standard lock. At this level he's not good enough. I'm still not convinced about Roberts/Davies centre partnership either. Big negative is the injury to Stoddart. Terrible injury and a big shame because he would have been a useful squad member at the World Cup. Good luck to him. clap

by flyhalffactory Sun 07 Aug 2011, 3:25 pm

Mr Gatland is between a rock and a hard place....... does he succumb to the clamour of the pink cowboy hats n' short tee shirt big arms bridgade and play the "welsh way", and bring his "creative" players or go for continuity and just thinker with the players who didn't perform.

Positives
* Patience and teamwork - alot of communication yesterday
* Fitness - the English were flagging at the end
* Bennett - scrummaged well, excellent in the set piece, and around the edges
* Burns - good game off the bench
* Charteris - so much better than AWJ
* Warburton - immense game, good capts performance
* Ryan Jones - has to start
* Phillips - best game for 2 seasons
* Knoyle - upped the intensity when he came on, was continually looking for the tryline, very good confident performance
* Priestland - took control of his nerves, and considering it was thrust on him had a bloody good game, has to be Jones back-up
* Wingers - they score tries don't they, job done then
* Davies - nullified the massive threat of Tuilagi, could have done more in attack, worked well again with Roberts
* Roberts - massive massive game, phew!!. Davies ability to nullify the combined threat of the English midfield, and Phillips quicker distribution meant that Roberts could play off the shoulder of Priestland, and what a difference that made, I bet Fluety and Tuilagi are nursing some bruises today.
* Stoddart - was looking so assued in defence and so dangerous in attack, what a massive loss to Wales in the WC

Negatives

* James - poor game, he let Tuilagi run through him, why oh why isn't Iestyn Thomas (ML player of the year in his position) in the welsh squad?
* Mitchell - poor game, mullered in the scrum continually by the "2nd choice" Corbisiero
* Davies - not his best game, I would start Ryan Jones next week
* AWJ - poor game, understrength in the scrum, no agression, let Tuilagi go through him twice and was at fault with his try
* Lydiate - poor performance, gave away 4th min pen, tackles were weak, out of position for Haskell try
* Faletua - poor performance, inexperience showed out of position, weak in tackle
* Scott Williams - deffo not a 10, did well out of position, bench next week at best

Changes
Lets give the pink cowboy hats their way and if fit why not play

15 Byrne or 1/2p
14 1/2p or Brew
13 Roberts
12 Henson
11 Shane
10 Hook
9 Williams
8 R Jones
7 Warburton
6 Lydiate
5 AWJ
4 Bradley
3 Adam
2 Rees
1 Geth

Personally I would select

15 1/2p
14 North (Brew)
13 Henson (Davies)
12 Roberts
11 Williams
10 Hook (Priestland)
9 Knoyle (Williams)
8 Delve
7 Warburton
6 Turnbull
5 R Jones
4 Charteris (Davies)
3 Jones
2 Rees (Burns)
1 Jenkins (I Thomas get him in NOW)

by Guest Sun 07 Aug 2011, 3:27 pm

Disagree with you on Craig Mitchell, I thought considering this was his first match back after suffering a dislocated shoulder, and he lasted the full 80mins, that he played very well. Yes our scrum wabbled a bit at the end of the 1st half, but he continued to hit rucks, defend well and was always there in support. Great first match back for him I think.

Disagree with you on Charteris as well. He secured line out ball (bar one I think), tackled and supported well and did all asked of him, no dreadful performance by him at all.

by Guest Sun 07 Aug 2011, 3:29 pm

flyhalf - that's uneccesarily unfair on Scott Williams. Of Course he's not a 10, he only got put there out of necessity, I thought he played well out of position. Gats would never have put him there if not for the injuries to SJ and Stodds. Give him a proper chance at centre, before labelling him as a negative.

by Londonwelsh Sun 07 Aug 2011, 3:32 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
Positives
* Charteris - so much better than AWJ

Come again ? Did you not see Charteris yesterday ?

I'm interested to know why you think Charteris is ''so much better than AWJ" ?

by flyhalffactory Sun 07 Aug 2011, 3:33 pm

rugbydreamer wrote:Disagree with you on Craig Mitchell, I thought considering this was his first match back after suffering a dislocated shoulder, and he lasted the full 80mins, that he played very well. Yes our scrum wabbled a bit at the end of the 1st half, but he continued to hit rucks, defend well and was always there in support. Great first match back for him I think.

Disagree with you on Charteris as well. He secured line out ball (bar one I think), tackled and supported well and did all asked of him, no dreadful performance by him at all.

I have to agree with londonwelsh here Mitchell had a poor game Steven outperformed him throughout. But to balance it I thought he was watching a different game with regards Charteris (very good) and AWJ (very poor) Shocked

Isn't it great this forum site!!!

by Guest Sun 07 Aug 2011, 3:34 pm

Steven's has had regular game time and been playing well for Saracens, Mitchell has been out injured since Feb/March - I think people need to take this into consideration before slating him so much. He'll only get better with more game time I think.

And yep, good forum! Smile

by flyhalffactory Sun 07 Aug 2011, 3:35 pm

rugbydreamer wrote:flyhalf - that's uneccesarily unfair on Scott Williams. Of Course he's not a 10, he only got put there out of necessity, I thought he played well out of position. Gats would never have put him there if not for the injuries to SJ and Stodds. Give him a proper chance at centre, before labelling him as a negative.

Dreamer I totally agree with you (as per my comments!!), yes perhaps negative is not the right box!!............ in fact if it hadn't been for Roberts very good performance I would have advocated a 1st choice of pairing

12 Williams
13 Davies

Williams is a very good centre

by Guest Sun 07 Aug 2011, 3:38 pm

I thought Williams and Davies linked up very well when Scott came on the pitch, we finally saw Davies do more in attack.

I don't like playing Davies outside of Roberts just for the fact we use Roberts as crash ball and the ball rarely gets past him, giving Davies very limited time on the ball to do anything other than defend. He is too much of an attacking threat to waste that way I feel.

You're right though Roberts did play very well, excellent in defence and looked more dangerous in attack then he's done for a long time, he drew defenders every time, just a shame we couldn't get the ball back quick enough all the time to exploit that more.

by bedfordwelsh Sun 07 Aug 2011, 3:40 pm

I though James and Mitchell had poor games yesterday and whilst Bennett had one of his best lets PLEASE not think he should be anywhere near 1st choice side.

Jenkins n Jones need to start.

2nd row needs a shake up R Jones for me with Davies.

Delve at No8 with Dan and Sam.

Hope we get to see Brew given a run Hook at 10 Priestland or Halfpenny at XV.

And he who shall remain nameless needs gametime if Gatland is serious about taking him

by flyhalffactory Sun 07 Aug 2011, 3:45 pm

rugbydreamer

I think yesterday performance suggests that Gatland tried to mix it up a bit tactically by using Roberts more offensively and Davies more defensively to catch their midfield counterparts on the hop, and also Davies was more concerned with the threat of the centres (he did rush out of defence a few times in the Baa Baas game)

And yes you are right Williams/Davies did link well. for the life of me I don't know why Gatland didn't put Roberts at 15 (he can play there!!), Davies 13, Williams 12, and kept Priestland at 10

by Londonwelsh Sun 07 Aug 2011, 3:46 pm

Disagree with you on Charteris as well. He secured line out ball (bar one I think), tackled and supported well and did all asked of him, no dreadful performance by him at all. [/quote]

Rugbydreamer,
2 key incidents in that game involved Charteris.

1. He won lineout ball and then had knocked out of his grasp by an English player. Not acceptable given his height and stature.
2. When receiving the ball in the line out he failed to deliver the ball to Knoyle or any of the other forwards; we lost the ball and lost our position in their 22.

It was a dreadful performance i'm afraid.

by flyhalffactory Sun 07 Aug 2011, 3:48 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:I though James and Mitchell had poor games yesterday and whilst Bennett had one of his best lets PLEASE not think he should be anywhere near 1st choice side.

Jenkins n Jones need to start.

2nd row needs a shake up R Jones for me with Davies.

Delve at No8 with Dan and Sam.

Hope we get to see Brew given a run Hook at 10 Priestland or Halfpenny at XV.

And he who shall remain nameless needs gametime if Gatland is serious about taking him

I think Lydiate had a pretty average game yesterday Wales know what he can do now, I think Turnbull needs a game to see what the options are

8 Delve 7 Warbuton 6 Turnbull for next weekend

by flyhalffactory Sun 07 Aug 2011, 3:57 pm

Londonwelsh wrote:Disagree with you on Charteris as well. He secured line out ball (bar one I think), tackled and supported well and did all asked of him, no dreadful performance by him at all.

[/quote]Rugbydreamer,
2 key incidents in that game involved Charteris.

1. He won lineout ball and then had knocked out of his grasp by an English player. Not acceptable given his height and stature.
2. When receiving the ball in the line out he failed to deliver the ball to Knoyle or any of the other forwards; we lost the ball and lost our position in their 22.

It was a dreadful performance i'm afraid. [/quote]

londonwelsh
AWJ let Tuilagi through for his try it was a dire tackle, paperthin in defence he let Fluety go through him as well, no agression in the set piece, lineout was good tho. Agree Charteris failed in that lineout or two, but in the loose wasn't as fragile as AWJ.

by Londonwelsh Sun 07 Aug 2011, 4:14 pm

[quote="flyhalffactory. [/quote]
AWJ let Tuilagi through for his try it was a dire tackle, paperthin in defence he let Fluety go through him as well, no agression in the set piece, lineout was good tho. Agree Charteris failed in that lineout or two, but in the loose wasn't as fragile as AWJ. [/quote]

I take your point but if there was anyone to blame for Tuilagi's try it was Paul James. He went through Paul James as if he wasnt there. Paul James is normally a good tackler but should have done a lot better to stop Tuilagi.

by flyhalffactory Sun 07 Aug 2011, 4:17 pm

Yes he went through them both .......... which is even worse!!, compounded to it was how they left Wilko go through what 15 metres as well...!!

by manofgwent Sun 07 Aug 2011, 4:47 pm

Not sure charteris was the only 2nd row not to secure good ball. What about the build up to haskells try. Bradley Davies slapping down the ball to nobody. It was difficult to tell if it was stevie wonder's throw or just stupidity from Bradley.
Personally I thought our defence was pretty decent. If you spend a bit of time tracking the welsh back row forwards, you can see just how much work they get through. Lydiate, warburton and faletau and also Ryan jones were tireless in defence. Also warburton was outstanding. You can see why he's been made captain at just 22. The boy i's going to be one if the best 7's in the world for years to come.
I thought the front row was our main problem. I'm also not too sure about the fitness our Adam jones, Rees or Jenkins. Anybody else know when they're gonna be available.
The 2nd row is up for grabs.
I think faletau will feature in the WC, but think gatland will start Ryan jones against SA.
I'd like to see knoyle start next week. With Williams on bench.
10. Hook or jones next week.
I think Henson will start. It would have been too risky to start him at twickenham. If things went wrong. He'd be taking loads of stick. Give him a home game to play in, but if he's poor again, I don't think he should go.
Maybe try brew. Again not sure when halfoennys available.
15. Priestland.
I expect England to bring a very strong side down to Cardiff and it should be a cracker.
One positive for me was that we didn't seem as nervy as we have done recently.

by GavinDragon Sun 07 Aug 2011, 4:56 pm

flyhlaf how was lydiate 'out of position' for the haskell try, last time i checked flankers had to stay bound to the scrum, theres not a back rower in wales who could have stopped haskell from that far out and at that angle!

by irnbrew Sun 07 Aug 2011, 5:49 pm

Aye flyhalf you know how much i rate Warburton and Lydiate so as above when the scrum was wheeled there should have been a back of Wales slideing across to fill the gap Gatland alluded to it after the game he said one of my players forgot what their role was meaning exacly what i have said To quote Barns on the T.V. there was nothing Lydiate could do to prevent that try

by flyhalffactory Sun 07 Aug 2011, 6:05 pm

Gavin / Irnbrew

"One of my players forgot what their role was" IMHO was directed at Lydiate.................... Firstly Lydiate "unbinded" rising too early, then pulled in the english openside which in effect increased the momentum of wheeling the scrum ....... result Haskell had an open space to attack poor old Shane.

I for my sins played blindside for best part of 10 yrs, Lydiate at blindside was the only player to have been aware, in that position you drive down and collapse the drive not what Lydiate did and help the wheel motion.

Its pretty plain of you look at the video replay........... Barnes is talking out of his hat

by irnbrew Sun 07 Aug 2011, 6:12 pm

Sorry Fly but your wrong and added to that what you said about tackleing you can bet your bottom dollar that Lydiate and Warburton will be the two top tacklers yesterday.And thats no way to talk about poor Barnsy Fly

by flyhalffactory Sun 07 Aug 2011, 6:18 pm

irnbrew

I am not wrong (in my opinion of course) ask any blindside what was wrong with that passage of play, secondly if flankers don't make the most tackles then they shouldnt be on the field, they have to in any set piece.

I will always give credit when a player performs well and in my mind on this occasion Lydiate didnt perform to his usual standard.

Most humblest apologies to Barnsy.............. he is after all one of my all time heros

by flyhalffactory Sun 07 Aug 2011, 6:20 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:irnbrew

I am not wrong (in my opinion of course) ask any blindside what was wrong with that passage of play, secondly if flankers don't make the most tackles then they shouldnt be on the field, they have to in any set piece.

I will always give credit when a player performs well and in my mind on this occasion Lydiate didnt perform to his usual standard.

Most humblest apologies to Barnsy.............. a great rapper (that England WC song made my eyes water) after that goal he scored against Brazil, well he is after all one of my all time heros

by bedfordwelsh Sun 07 Aug 2011, 6:39 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:I though James and Mitchell had poor games yesterday and whilst Bennett had one of his best lets PLEASE not think he should be anywhere near 1st choice side.

Jenkins n Jones need to start.

2nd row needs a shake up R Jones for me with Davies.

Delve at No8 with Dan and Sam.

Hope we get to see Brew given a run Hook at 10 Priestland or Halfpenny at XV.

And he who shall remain nameless needs gametime if Gatland is serious about taking him

Flyhalf,

Dont agree with you about Ltdiate thoguht his work rate was very good but agree we now know what he can do so wouldn't have problem with Turnbull having crack there.

I think Lydiate had a pretty average game yesterday Wales know what he can do now, I think Turnbull needs a game to see what the options are

8 Delve 7 Warbuton 6 Turnbull for next weekend

by TycroesOsprey Sun 07 Aug 2011, 7:19 pm

fhf, the comment about players forgetting their role was directed at Phillips, watch the try again. Watch Phillips instead of tracking around the back on a wheeling scrum and allowing his flanker to cover, follow the england no 9 round to the right he realises what hes done turns and runs around the back of the scrum late.

defensive scrum, no 9 covers the wheel as the two flankers are officlaly bound, Phillips would have been taught that at school but had a rush of blood to teh head. and if you were a flanker you were taught to trust your no 9 to do that.

Scott Williams, defensivly naive and positioning all wrong admittedly was playing out of position and also butchered possesion in the english 22 by passing straight out. Not ready yet.

by GavinDragon Sun 07 Aug 2011, 8:01 pm

fly i take your point on about lydiate picking his head up but he only did this after the scrum had wheeled, from then on there was not much he could do to change the direction of the wheel or stop haskell,

i agree with you it was not his best game in a wales shirt too many penalties and im all for giving others ago, although theyl have to play very weell to take the shirt

by Seagultaf Sun 07 Aug 2011, 8:03 pm

Harsh on Scott Williams for that pass into touch. It drifted just infont of 3 or 4 Welsh players none of whom ran onto the ball. If they had done we would have been priasing him for a wonderfull pass!

by manofgwent Sun 07 Aug 2011, 11:18 pm

On the Haskell try. Gatland's comments were based at Phillips. No player in lydiate's position would have been able to stop him. Phillips had gone around the wrong side, the front row were easily wheeled and all this came from bennett's poor throw and Bradley slapping the ball down. You do have to wonder about our decision making. Bennett isn't the best throwing hooker. Why didn't we throw to the front of the line-out, take the ball in and clear our lines?

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