Steve Williams

by oldparwin Mon 08 Aug 2011, 7:23 pm

Steve Williams states that this win with Adam Scott was his most satisfying yet, you would have thought he had all the pressure on him to perform well, but for gods sake he is only a bag man, handing out a golf club to Adam then cleaning it and putting it back in the bag, you could not even class him as a sportsman.

Is it me or do you all feel the same as me, he just a (rich) big headed buffoon

by Thomond Mon 08 Aug 2011, 7:25 pm

While a caddie can help at the end of the day he doesn't make the shots. He is really a pompous ass.

by JAS Mon 08 Aug 2011, 7:57 pm

Well to be honest we don't know the conversations that go on between caddy & player at that level. Scott to be honest should have won multiple majors by now with that Rolls Royce of a swing. You can only conclude that his erstwhile failure to do so is either in his decision making at crucial points in a tournament or some other mental frailty. A top bagman can help with that and know exactly what to say and when to keep his man in the zone at the business end of a tournament. Maybe having a "strong" bagman (replace strong with savvy, bolshie, arsy - whatever adjective you like) is the final piece of the jigsaw that he has needed to kick on.
I personally wouldn't give a flying one if the rest of the world thought my caddy was a pompous ass. If he kept me in the zone, stopped me making rash decisions and generally looked after me on the course he'd be doing his job well.

Having said all that....YES he is still a buffoon but if he offered to caddy for me next years Trilby Tour I'd take him.

by SmithersJones Mon 08 Aug 2011, 10:32 pm

Either he's an absolute idiot or there's very little to choose between any of the top pros in terms of overall capability and he knows he made a difference to Adam's score. I genuinely don't know which is nearer to the truth but they can certainly all hit a ball and some caddies are more in demand than others.

by super_realist Tue 09 Aug 2011, 8:45 am

It might be interesting to see what would happen if players had a tournament every year where there were no caddies. No doubt they help with course management, however they may also provide a conflict of opinion. I wonder what their actual worth in terms of shots per round actually is. I think they could probably save a mid handicap club golfer a raft of shots per round, just not sure how much difference they make in the upper echelons if the game.

by JAS Tue 09 Aug 2011, 9:06 am

I would tend to agree Super (that they could typically save a mid handicapper a raft of shots). In the upper echelons of the game the dividing line between success and failure can be very fine. Even if the caddy just contributes to 1 shot saved it could mean the difference between making or missing the cut, winning or coming 2nd.

No doubt they get overruled plenty as well. I just can't imagine Van de Veldes caddy in '99 saying "Jean you are a mere approach away from destiny, to hell with playing safe, laying up is for wimps, show all your Gallic pride and do it in style!! Here, take this 4 iron and flush it... Just left of the grandstand, there's a good lad!!"

by SetupDeterminesTheMotion Tue 09 Aug 2011, 9:29 am

The guy is a CADDIE. vomit

HE does not hit the little white ball. thumbsdown

He's just a publicity hungry assh*le. Broken Record

by Maverick Tue 09 Aug 2011, 9:34 am

super_realist wrote:It might be interesting to see what would happen if players had a tournament every year where there were no caddies. No doubt they help with course management, however they may also provide a conflict of opinion. I wonder what their actual worth in terms of shots per round actually is. I think they could probably save a mid handicap club golfer a raft of shots per round, just not sure how much difference they make in the upper echelons if the game.

Interesting point you make there. I read an article last year in one of the top golf mags can't remember if it was GM or TG however. They had 2 amateurs play a round at the Oxfordshire with 2 top caddies. 1 of the caddies was Langers former bag man cannot for life of me remember his name (but he's the short curly haired fella caddied for him for years and Seve I think) another was just a regular tour caddie no idea who he caddied for.

Anyway the idea was they played a round a the oxfordshire before the caddies carried for them. Then they went out with the caddie on the bag, the stipulation was the player just hit the shot but the bagman decided what club, what type of shot and where to hit (aim). Then on the greens same thing caddy picked the line and player just rolled the ball towards the hole.

Now i'd have to dig out the magazines which I sadly hoard! to get exact numbers but, Langers former caddy saved his player who was around a 7 handicap something like 11 shots from his previous round. The other caddie saved the other guy who's handicap was in the region of 18 a further 10 shots.

So while we don't know what sort of difference the top guys get from a good caddy I think there's no doubt that any one of us Am's with the proper course management from a good caddy can significantly improve our scores, and makes me realise why I work as hard on my course management as I do on my long game

by Maverick Tue 09 Aug 2011, 9:35 am

SetupDeterminesTheMotion wrote:The guy is a CADDIE.

HE does not hit the little white ball.

He's just a publicity hungry assh*le.

Sums up Steve Williams 100% perfectly in my mind. All his outburst are to help sell his forthcoming book on his time with Tiger of that i'm in no doubt

by Diggers Tue 09 Aug 2011, 10:44 am

Well ultimately for a guy who carries a bag for a living he's managed to earn a fortune, get famous and be able to indulge in his passion of sports car racing in his spare time....strewth what a plank eh.

by McLaren Tue 09 Aug 2011, 10:49 am

Diggers

He may have realised that being an ass hole could get him the fame he needed to get rich and that is a fair enough strategy, but that still makes him an ass hole.

by shclaff Tue 09 Aug 2011, 11:02 am

Maverick wrote: makes me realise why I work as hard on my course management as I do on my long game

Can you explain how you work to improve your course management?

I could definitely save a few shots!

by Davie Tue 09 Aug 2011, 11:07 am

It may be hard to "work on" course management, but I think it mostly means staying concentrated, considering the options of every shot and not getting caught up in the moment when you are perhaps playing well and feeling you are bullet proof.

I've had a few rounds where I've tried to focus on better course management, seen the positive results, and by the end of the round thinking to myself "I'm playing well, everything is going well, of course I can make this shot, curling around a tree and carrying a pond right on the limit of my range" Doh

by Diggers Tue 09 Aug 2011, 11:09 am

McLaren wrote:Diggers

He may have realised that being an ass hole could get him the fame he needed to get rich and that is a fair enough strategy, but that still makes him an ass hole.

Really, there are plenty of people who arent successful who are ass holes and Im sure lots of unsucessful caddies are ass holes. So he is clearly doing something right.

by goldwolf Tue 09 Aug 2011, 11:19 am

Could it not be the case that he was in fact a very good caddie and a nice guy, but the money he's earned with Woods over the years has made him into what people dislike?

I ask as I don't know what he was like pre Woods. Money does strange things to people.

by McLaren Tue 09 Aug 2011, 11:31 am

GW

Firstly, would just like to say how great it is to see you posting again.

It could well be true that the money and status has gone to his head, the post round interview would most certainly back this up. He was talking as if he and not Adam had won. He also talked of his 133 victories, and not Woods and Normans.

It was also a little odd that he talked of pointing out to Adam the areas of his game he needed to work on. Stevie is not a coach or a statistician so how he would know that is beyond me. Whatever events or facets of his personality have contributed to it, I don’t know, but he is one hell of an arrogant guy.

Will this help drive a player to victory or just annoy the hell out of them? If I was Adam Scott I would probably have dumped Stevie for his little post round interview stunt. There are plenty of better caddies who know when to shut up and keep their cool.

by goldwolf Tue 09 Aug 2011, 11:38 am

Cheers mac. Got a lot of work on a the moment but try and get on when I can.

I didn't see his interview so can't comment. But on the flip side, maybe he's ideal for Scott, he always comes across to me a little shy and uncomfortable with a lot of attention? Perhaps having Williams taking the attention away from him was a help for him?

by Maverick Tue 09 Aug 2011, 11:43 am

shclaff wrote:
Maverick wrote: makes me realise why I work as hard on my course management as I do on my long game

Can you explain how you work to improve your course management?

I could definitely save a few shots!

Simply working on when to attack and when to play safe. What is the right shot for the lie, and where is best to play the next shot from. Then when things don't go to plan whats the best way to minimise the damage.

by SmithersJones Tue 09 Aug 2011, 12:12 pm

Maverick wrote: Langers former caddy saved his player who was around a 7 handicap something like 11 shots from his previous round. The other caddie saved the other guy who's handicap was in the region of 18 a further 10 shots.

Those are quite astounding numbers, Mav. Even if the 7 handicapper had a mare first time round he must have been well under his handicap thanks to the caddy's advice. (Pete Waterman, I believe was the guy's name). And do you mean the 18 handicapper was 10 better or 21?

by Faldono1fan Tue 09 Aug 2011, 12:41 pm

I don't think Pete Waterman would have helped Langer much unless he was into his Kylie. Very Happy

I think it was Pete Coleman.

by Maverick Tue 09 Aug 2011, 12:45 pm

SmithersJones wrote:
Maverick wrote: Langers former caddy saved his player who was around a 7 handicap something like 11 shots from his previous round. The other caddie saved the other guy who's handicap was in the region of 18 a further 10 shots.

Those are quite astounding numbers, Mav. Even if the 7 handicapper had a mare first time round he must have been well under his handicap thanks to the caddy's advice. (Pete Waterman, I believe was the guy's name). And do you mean the 18 handicapper was 10 better or 21?

Thats what I thought when I read the article myself SJ that those numbers were simply quite fantastic. Pete Waterman sounds right to me, always remember his face but never his name. From memory the 7 handicap guy shot something like an 85 on his own back attacking at the wrong times etc. I believe his 2nd round with Pete on the bag was something like a 74 a significant improvement and said something along the lines "I never though of taking the lines the caddy was suggesting till now".

the 18 handicapper was 10 shots better second time around shot something like mid 80's under his handicap instead of in the 90's.

I will have to hunt out the magazine tonight to find the exact details as I know I have it stockpiled in my office at home

by kwinigolfer Tue 09 Aug 2011, 12:49 pm

Faldo,
What's Pete Coleman up to now?

by Maverick Tue 09 Aug 2011, 12:55 pm

I stand correct it's Pete Coleman not waterman!

Cheers Kwini appreciate that, it's all in place now the grey haired curly mop, and definately remember him on Langers bag and now can see him on Faldos..

Not sure what he is upto but was a fascinating article will get Mrs Mav on the hunt whilst i;m working/posting on here

by MustPuttBetter Tue 09 Aug 2011, 12:58 pm

McLaren wrote:He also talked of his 133 victories, and not Woods and Normans.

It was also a little odd that he talked of pointing out to Adam the areas of his game he needed to work on. Stevie is not a coach or a statistician so how he would know that is beyond me. Whatever events or facets of his personality have contributed to it, I don’t know, but he is one hell of an arrogant guy.

Will this help drive a player to victory or just annoy the hell out of them? If I was Adam Scott I would probably have dumped Stevie for his little post round interview stunt. There are plenty of better caddies who know when to shut up and keep their cool.

To be fair, if i was a caddie i would record them also as my 'wins'. In terms of caddying it is a win for him over other caddies. Surely you'd keep a record of how various players have done whilst you were caddying for them?
He may well be a statistician!

I don't particularly like Williams, but I seriously doubt, having just won a WGC, that Scott is about to dump Williams for what is a combination of a badly advised interview and a bit of a media stich up

by SmithersJones Tue 09 Aug 2011, 1:01 pm

Faldono1fan wrote:I don't think Pete Waterman would have helped Langer much unless he was into his Kylie. I think it was Pete Coleman.

Of course, my bad. On a related note, hmmmmmm, Kylie heart

by Faldono1fan Tue 09 Aug 2011, 1:05 pm

Kwini - I know he caddied for Danny Lee last year, but not sure what his more recent movements are. Not sure what age he is, but has been caddying a long time. Think I heard he caddied for Tommy Horton in 1974! He certainly had great success with Langer and a great caddy does make a difference, but they must compliment one another.

by kwinigolfer Tue 09 Aug 2011, 1:17 pm

Faldo,
Danny Lee is likely to qualify for the 2012 PGA Tour membership as well as his European Tour status. Quite an impressive rebound he's made; a bit of a forgotten man over here.

Had a very pleasant conversation with Tommy Horton at a Ryder Cup where he was working for Tony Jacklin - most interesting perspective regarding European Golf / IMG influence / PGA Tour etc. Long time ago and you'd think his opinions would be dated now, but really just proof that the more things change the more they stay the same.

by Davie Tue 09 Aug 2011, 1:24 pm

I'm quite surprised a caddie would knock so many shots off an 18 handicapper. It's all very well saying "hit it there" but often that's easier said than done!

I can well understand it with a lower handicap (and therefore consistently more accurate) but if a caddy were to say to me "don't hit driver, hit a 4 iron and put it just there", I'd understand what he was saying but the ability to actually do it would probably be beyond me! (consistently at least)

by McLaren Tue 09 Aug 2011, 1:32 pm

Davie

I think it would be possible for a very good caddie to keep a 6 off an 18 handicappers card, or at least minimise the probability of a 6.

Somethimes a horror shot can mean a six is inevitable but if an 18 handicapper is playing well course management mistakes often result in big numbers. A caddie could stop this.

by Doc Tue 09 Aug 2011, 1:35 pm

First up I can't stand the mouthy git and reckon he got more 4rsey with Tiger because he was the bloke who was taking out his empties before the snapper caught him with his pants down. Stevie thought he should have some of Tigers leftovers ....

I think I'm right in saying that Adam and Tiger were good mates going back a number of years. Adam and Tiger were thought to be the future of golf etc, etc and became close attending each others weddings etc. Stevie is an all black as is Adam and they were very matey years ago back home and again when Tiger and Adam hooked up. No caddie knows Firestone like Stevie as its been Tigers tournament for years now, so the decision to have Williams on the bag was an easy one as an experiment, which will now run into this week too.

I did read somewhere a couple of years ago, that a newspaper in NZ mentioned that Williams had ridiculed Adams game and said the Tiger was now streets ahead of his compatriot, so don't know how that went down.

by kwinigolfer Tue 09 Aug 2011, 1:38 pm

Think you're letting your rhetoric overwhelm the facts, Doc

Not a Republican are you?

by JDandfries Tue 09 Aug 2011, 1:40 pm

Interesting, Doc, but was that a deliberate attempt to stir some NZ v AUS debate?

I am sure you know Williams is from NZ and Scott from Australia?

In any case - Williams has come out of this very poorly for me, acting like a spoilt child, and not a very bright one at that!

by TM2K Tue 09 Aug 2011, 4:41 pm

Pete Coleman is a little before my time but from what guys at my club have told me lived in New Malden (his house backed on to Malden GC) and is a really great guy.

I also heard that he enjoyed a punt a little bit too much and pretty much gambled away most of his career earnings which is really sad. This was all a few years back so not quite sure what he is up to these days.

by sharrison01 Tue 09 Aug 2011, 4:51 pm

Williams has never been particularly endearing but there is little doubt that he is one of the best if not the best caddie out there. Tiger also wasn't a particularly great bloke but he has again been at the very top of what he does. Not saying that you have to be an ass hole to achieve but both of their arrogance and single mindedness have been a big part in them being as good as they are and in winning so much their arrogance is only fuelled.

Respecting how good they are at their jobs is a completely different issue to liking them as people. I wouldn't want a beer with either but there are few caddies and tour pro's out there that wouldn't swap their CV's with them...

by Maverick Tue 09 Aug 2011, 4:56 pm

sharrison01 wrote:Williams has never been particularly endearing but there is little doubt that he is one of the best if not the best caddie out there. Tiger also wasn't a particularly great bloke but he has again been at the very top of what he does. Not saying that you have to be an ass hole to achieve but both of their arrogance and single mindedness have been a big part in them being as good as they are and in winning so much their arrogance is only fuelled.

Respecting how good they are at their jobs is a completely different issue to liking them as people. I wouldn't want a beer with either but there are few caddies and tour pro's out there that wouldn't swap their CV's with them...

No-one likes and ass. But as SH says above, single mindedness as well as being completely driven and focused on what you do is how you achieve so much. Personality doesn't come into it. I run my business in a focused and driven way, I like to think I'm a good boss but my focus is on one thing for my company the goal and that goal is cash flow in my bank account. If I was a loveable guy all the time then my business would fail miserably.

However away from the course i'm a cheery person, like a laugh and enjoy the craic but I know when to switch that off and thats what the guys at the top of their profession do excatly the same whether their Tiger, Williams, Sir Nick Faldo or anyother sportsman. The driven focused self obsessed win far more.

by oldparwin Tue 09 Aug 2011, 5:04 pm

Mav
I am not saying that he is not focused on doing his job, but Adam Scott played the shots not him, but he seems to think that the credit for the win belongs to him. Total Buffoon

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 09 Aug 2011, 8:02 pm

Thomond wrote:While a caddie can help at the end of the day he doesn't make the shots. He is really a pompous ass.

Amen!

Diggers wrote:Well ultimately for a guy who carries a bag for a living he's managed to earn a fortune, get famous and be able to indulge in his passion of sports car racing in his spare time....strewth what a plank eh.

Well done Steve. I could win the lottery next week and become as rich as him etc etc....Williams however, no matter what he does, will always be an @rse.

I may be mistaken but I'm sure Mr. Scott was playing pretty well at Augusta w/o that glorified porter on his bag. He's a tool. TBH, if I was Scott I'd be having a not-so-quiet word with him about the interviews he may be giving in the future. The guy whose camera he stole and dumped in a lake when on TW's bag could have done the World a favour if he'd done what he should've and punched his lights out.

by oldparwin Wed 10 Aug 2011, 1:13 pm

I wonder how many tournaments Scott will keep Williams on his bag, he seemed upset at the news conference having to defend Williams.
It would appear that with Williams on his bag, then the friendly relationship he had with Tiger could be severely tested.

My betting will be after this last Major Scott will dump him

by BlueCoverman Wed 10 Aug 2011, 1:20 pm

My bet would be that if he wins again he won't!...

by Maverick Wed 10 Aug 2011, 1:26 pm

He didn't look comfortable at the press conference i'd agree with that but even though the guy is a complete tool there's no doubting he probably is the best caddy out there and therefore tool or no tool, Adam Scott won't dump him, more likely just reign him in a little and reap the rewards of what can be a good partnership

by MustPuttBetter Wed 10 Aug 2011, 1:29 pm

If Adam Scott is winning or going close to winning with Williams on the bag, whether it's anything to do with Williams or not, i can't see Adam ditching him.
I guess it depends what's more important to him - having an easy life in press conferences or winning. I suspect we all know the answer

by Maverick Wed 10 Aug 2011, 2:10 pm

Appears that Williams has seen the error of his ways, Below is a transcript from most recent interview he has done:

Caddie Steve Williams has admitted he should not have been so outspoken in the aftermath of helping Adam Scott win the WGC-Bridgestone Invitational in Akron on Sunday.

The New Zealander appeared to think he had won the tournament himself when he spoke to camera afterwards and called it "the most satisfying win of my career", despite having shared in 13 majors with Tiger Woods.

"Looking back on it, I was a bit over the top," Williams told FOXSports.com. "I had a lot of anger in me about what happened and it all came out.

"I said what I said, but I'm not going to say any more about Tiger. I had a lot of emotions going on all week. You hear people say 'How good are you now that you're not caddieing for Tiger?', things like that and it makes you want to prove yourself.

Rob Lee on the US PGA
"When we were coming down the stretch and all those people were calling out my name, I mean I've never experienced anything like that and when Adam won, all of a sudden, all that emotion poured out.

"But, look, it's time to move on. The Tiger thing is over."

Flattered
However, Scott brushed off the talk surrounding Williams' comments as a storm in a teacup, saying he was 'flattered' by his remarks.

"Having a quiet word with Steve is not very easy - he's a big guy, you know," laughed Scott. "He feels the way he feels. I just took what he said as confidence for me. If he really feels that that was one of his great wins then I'm kind of flattered.

"It fills me with confidence and I think that's what his intention is to be honest.

"He was really excited to win. Obviously he had not won for a little while (November 2009 was Woods's last victory) and he's really passionate about it.

"I think it all got a little out of hand, but we'll just go on from there and hopefully we'll let our clubs do the talking for the rest of the week.

"He was asked these questions and he gave his honest answer I assume. With anything related to Tiger Woods, it's all scrutinized and blown out of proportion a lot of the time I think, but I guess it's newsworthy stuff."

Williams was dismissed by Woods last month after working on his bag for more than 12 years.

by Diggers Wed 10 Aug 2011, 2:47 pm

I think the one thing that clearly shines out from all of this is that Scott is a really good guy.

by pedro Wed 10 Aug 2011, 4:10 pm

Maverick wrote: I run my business in a focused and driven way, I like to think I'm a good boss but my focus is on one thing for my company the goal and that goal is cash flow in my bank account. If I was a loveable guy all the time then my business would fail miserably.

Sounds like my neighbourhood pimp.

Maverick wrote: Steve Williams: "I said what I said, but I'm not going to say any more about Tiger."

Yeah, just until the book comes out...

I think SW is an a-hole as well, but he's clearly good at what he does. Apparantly he has a big ego and never came to terms with the fact that he always stood in the shadow of Tiger. And (unlike Tiger I must say) it also seems he never made it to the 19th hole, getting his manhood boosted by easy women -- probably adding to his bitterness. Just my psedo-psychological analysis... Dog

by Maverick Wed 10 Aug 2011, 4:12 pm

pedro wrote:
Maverick wrote: I run my business in a focused and driven way, I like to think I'm a good boss but my focus is on one thing for my company the goal and that goal is cash flow in my bank account. If I was a loveable guy all the time then my business would fail miserably.
Sounds like my neighbourhood pimp.

Whats your neighbourhood it might be me... Whistle

by milkyboy Wed 10 Aug 2011, 7:37 pm

i commented on another thread a few days after seeing his interview. What a tool, he barely mentioned scott, it was about him being number 1. I guess everyone figured he had it lucky with tiger and this was his way of proving he was good... doesn't make him any less of a tool though.

As for caddies saving mid handicappers shots? I'd say that depends on the mid-handicapper. Some have excellent course management and some don't. On my course i know the best line off the tee and what side to miss every fairway and every green if i'm going to miss. On a course i've never played before it's different. For most of us, its all very well knowing where it should be going, its just doing it that's the problem!

As for the magazine article, I'm sure they helped to a degree, but most people are going to score better on a second round on a new course. When they've been able to see where they should have been!

by barragan Wed 10 Aug 2011, 8:16 pm

milkyboy wrote:As for the magazine article, I'm sure they helped to a degree, but most people are going to score better on a second round on a new course. When they've been able to see where they should have been!

yes, an interesting extension to the experiment would have been to send them out afterwards on their own again and see how much they'd learned and how close they could get to their round 2 scores.

by Guest Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:31 pm

i think its wrong williams gave that interview took the focus away from adam scott' brilliant performance.

by gaelgowfer Thu 11 Aug 2011, 12:06 am

Unless Williams is going to retire post book, then he will have to be very careful how he (or rather his ghost writer) pens this best-seller Whistle

for surely it would be impossible for him to find a caddieing job again if he were to publicly divulge privileged information given by any player.

To quote the caddie mantra ... turn up; keep up and shut up! ... springs to mind.

by Rangiora Thu 11 Aug 2011, 8:47 am

Steve Williams came to my club in 2008 as part of our centenary celebrations.

He came along with his wife, very nice and talked for around 90 mins.

He came across as "ordinary kiwi guy" someone one who's not afraid to say it how it is. His talk was a little " Blue " at times but gave quite an insight as to the relationship between caddy and player.

His stories revolved around all the players he has caddied for but mostly Tiger, very funny some of them.

He also talked about the Foundation he had set up with his wife and their involvement with Starship. Children's charity. I believe he donated a $1,000,000 to that cause alone.

He then fielded questions from the floor and then did the Obligatory auction . Proceeds shared between us and Foundation

All in all a top night .

Just thought it would interesting to see the other side rather than the very public one we've been seeing lately

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