The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub cf The Establishment Club

Many of you will never have heard of the Establishment Club. It was a counter-establishment club founded by Peter Cook in the seedy parts of Soho in the 1960's. Born out of the satirical roots of Private Eye and That Was The Week That Was (a fantastic satirical BBC live show that pulled few punches). My Dad used to encourage me to watch it (but to be honest, I was a bit young - and in those days most eleven-year-olds would never have been up after 10.30).
But now of course, the Establishment Club is what it says on the tin. With spin-offs worldwide.

Turning to The Dew Drop Inn: Created by Gibson on the weekend of the Irish Grand Slam in '09, it used to be an anarchic mayhem which the Beeb 606 mods to their eternal credit allowed way too much licence. (another BBC tick). But now it's just a comfy self-joining, mutually-admiring, ed I withdraw this assetion] and smug bunch of the politburo from which no member of the v2 team from Hobo to the mods don't sup in mutual admiration.

Sorry to maintain my hereticism. But I'll still put my tuppthwth in the pub from time to time.

R.I.P Rava

Alright Portnoy, how are you?

p.s. I meant to say - why do the regz partake in conversations privately in their overstuffed leather chairs on debates which are already 'out there'?

Portnoy, let's be constructive: what about the pub would you like to see changed? What would improve it?

MBTGOG wrote:Alright Portnoy, how are you?

I'm OK thanks Corporal Munsty Sir!

Good grief, but you're objectionable.

Portnoy wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:Alright Portnoy, how are you?

I'm OK thanks Corporal Munsty Sir!

That's good. How's the weather over yonder? It's really dull here. Looking forward to getting back to Chester so I can at least see some sun at some point.

greybeard wrote:Good grief, but you're objectionable.

Hang on a bit.

No time to take a pause and a breather here?

Just because the boat is rocked, it doesn't mean it's going under.

But there is a self-appointed inner clique...

And a self appointed peanut gallery as well, by the looks of things. You are just as smug and self satisfied as those you are posting about.

Just address the points greybeard.

Attacking the disaffected accuser is a matter of externalising the internal questions.

Portnoy wrote:
But there is a self-appointed inner clique...

Too true, I've just been evicted by glas, but then I shouldn't be drinking during work hours anyway...

Portnoy, any chance you could answer my question? I'd be interested to hear your response.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Portnoy, let's be constructive: what about the pub would you like to see changed? What would improve it?

Sorry Lucky, I missed that in my expected torrent of abuse.

Well I would like to see regz partaking in the open debates rather than muttering silently in the cosy snugs. By that I mean that if an article is open outside about a topic why should the politburo muse about it in camera?

Best thing to do would be to take the pub off sticky.

Portnoy wrote:Just address the points greybeard.

Make one.

Portnoy, I'd agree with you if regs were only discussing things like team selection in the pub, but we also post on the articles where that's being discussed. I know I do.

The pub needn't be a sticky, that's true. But is it really such a problem that it is?

Oh sweet Jesus.

The point is that that it is a comfortable clique. An inner sanctum.

It is a privileged* group which needs a kick up the bum from time to remind themselves that if they have anything to discuss about an issue which out there in the forum.

* free to enter but easy to freeze out

The tone of the pub is establishment, conservative and a long way from it's roots.

The point of my OP was to cause a debate about it's merits and worth...

Thomond wrote:Oh sweet Jesus.

?

Anything wrong with an open debate about a sticky article in the RU forum Thomond?

I notice that Admins and Mods haven't replied.

Maybe they're in conference?

Portnoy,those who are in the pub are among the top posters on this site and a lot of those posts come from outside the pub. It feels like you're banging the same drum.

Portnoy wrote:The point is that that it is a comfortable clique. An inner sanctum.

It is a privileged* group which needs a kick up the bum from time to remind themselves that if they have anything to discuss about an issue which out there in the forum.

* free to enter but easy to freeze out

The tone of the pub is establishment, conservative and a long way from it's roots.

The point of my OP was to cause a debate about it's merits and worth...

Some of what is said here is true. The guys in there are a good laugh and banter but it is pretty easy to be ignored. I used to post in there but don't anymore for that very reason.

I like and respect everyone in there but it's not for me. I certainly would not like to see it ended because it's the main reason a lot of these people are on these boards and I think this place would be worse without their input.

Thomond wrote:Portnoy,those who are in the pub are among the top posters on this site and a lot of those posts come from outside the pub. It feels like you're banging the same drum.

The point is that there is nothing wrong with lifting a slab and seeing underneath from time to time.

I take it you're giving out that people are staying within the pub and not contributing to the rest of the site? It's someones personal choice what they do on here,so that's got nothing to do with me or anyone else. I like to think I've contributed to the rest of the site and post a lot of sections.

That's a shame, Radge - sorry if I've been guilty of ignoring you, it wasn't intentional.

If you want to pop in for a swift half some time, I'll 'pay.'

PM for Thomond.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:That's a shame, Radge - sorry if I've been guilty of ignoring you, it wasn't intentional.

If you want to pop in for a swift half some time, I'll 'pay.'

Is a way of freezing the debate.

But a fairly crude one - more worthy of the pub itself.

Maybe the pub itself should be off topic?

[ed] - not that I'd want that because there is a value to the pub.

It has been discussed a few times Portnoy,and the consensus seemed to be,that there was no problem going to the off topic section.

Portnoy,

Do you want to write an article giving out about the pub or do you want the ethos and actions of it to change? If the second, please post in there and address your thoughts to them please.

MBTGOG wrote:PM for Thomond.

No PM for Portnoy?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:That's a shame, Radge - sorry if I've been guilty of ignoring you, it wasn't intentional.

Ignore is maybe a harsh word, and I don't for 1 minute it would be anyones intention to Ignore, but perhaps I don't have anything intersting enough to contribute to be acknowleged. It happens but I'm not makin an issue out of it.

It's certainly not advisable to verbally bash something publicly that a lot of posters here hold very dear to their hearts.

Simply put portnoy, "They're not hurting anyone are they?"

Radge,take inspiration from the Rev. He gets ignored but he still posts

Best take my TV Guide away then, because nobody posts in there

The "Pub" can be like a real pub though. When you first pop in to drink, there's the regs chatting away and you just pop up to the bar, order your then maybe slink off to a chair in the corner. Next time you nip in you might have a wee chat to the bar staff, then slink off to that chair. Over time you stay at the bar, chatting to the bar staff, chin-wagging with the others as they come up and order. You might join the pool or darts team (even the pubs golf society if they've got one) after a while. Pubs aren't for everyone and even if you like pubs a good one is hard to find. I like 'drinking' in The Dewdrop and chatting with the regs. On other occasions I pop out to join debates, just depends on the mood I'm in

Absolutely not Radge.

All I wanted to do was explore the direction and purpose of the pub.

Personally I like to pop in from time to time, but I now find it to pompous and worthy.

On 606v1 it used to be a haven from wummers but to be honest there's not an excessive number of those on v2.

I don't understand why the clique need to debate quietly in the pub when they could be doing so openly outside on existing posts.

Cue the facebook alternative.

Not a lot of debate on rugby issues goes on in the pub at the moment, I'd say more people post outside the pub these days.

PenfroPete wrote:Best take my TV Guide away then, because nobody posts in there

The "Pub" can be like a real pub though. When you first pop in to drink, there's the regs chatting away and you just pop up to the bar, order your then maybe slink off to a chair in the corner. Next time you nip in you might have a wee chat to the bar staff, then slink off to that chair. Over time you stay at the bar, chatting to the bar staff, chin-wagging with the others as they come up and order. You might join the pool or darts team (even the pubs golf society if they've got one) after a while. Pubs aren't for everyone and even if you like pubs a good one is hard to find. I like 'drinking' in The Dewdrop and chatting with the regs. On other occasions I pop out to join debates, just depends on the mood I'm in

Nope. Exactly not: the TV guide is brilliant and very appreciated but most often does not engender debate.

All I'm trying to do is ask questions which are never otherwise asked.

All I wanted to do was explore the direction and purpose of the pub.

Do it inside then please where the whole pub will see.

Portnoy wrote:The point is that that it is a comfortable clique. An inner sanctum.

It is a privileged* group which needs a kick up the bum from time to remind themselves that if they have anything to discuss about an issue which out there in the forum.

* free to enter but easy to freeze out

The tone of the pub is establishment, conservative and a long way from it's roots.

The point of my OP was to cause a debate about it's merits and worth...

I'm yet to see anyone who has wanted to come and join in discussions chased out, so I reject your hypothesis sir!

I haven't seen anyone frozen out or not tolerated. This seems to be an issue of perception on the behalf of others rather than an inherent problem.

Any chance you could tell us what those questions are? You seem to give out but not give ways to improve.

Portnoy wrote:All I'm trying to do is ask questions which are never otherwise asked.

Or asking questions that there's little point asking is more to the point.

The topic of moving "the pub" was raised when Portnoy wanted to do his "series of off topic articles". Nobody is bothered by it being moved (out of the "regs"), so why it was mentioned again I don't know.

I also see plenty of the "regs" posting "outside" too, unless I'm imagining it?

Moaning for moaning's sake again. Lighten up a bit.

Notch wrote:
I'm yet to see anyone who has wanted to come and join in discussions chased out, so I reject your hypothesis sir!

I haven't seen anyone frozen out or not tolerated. This seems to be an issue of perception on the behalf of others rather than an inherent problem.

Well apart from nottins maybe....

Look the pub is a clique, so what? For me it serves it's a purpose. It's a wee place I can go and feel shunned and ignored when there's not much going on on the boards or I'm sick of debating Irish back row selection and whether or not Ireland raise their game against England or not.

It what it is, I mean if people don't like it then they don't have to go in there and I think if people respect the regs then they're all friendly enough.

Besides it beats whetherspoons...

Dry humping a cheese grater beats Whetherspoons

greybeard wrote:Dry humping a cheese grater beats Whetherspoons

Never tried it....

roddersm wrote:

greybeard wrote:Dry humping a cheese grater beats Whetherspoons

Never tried it....

What wetherspoons? Lucky you!

Let me address a few points.

firstly, everyone is welcome in the pub. Conversations do go on in there on various off topic (for rugby anyway) themes. I have on several occasions reminded people that there is an off topic section on the board that people should post on to get a 606v2 view on.

this has always been met with good will and most of the regulars do post in the music, films, tv and news sections now.

There is an element of rugby chat in there but that is usually about social meet ups etc. When threads are started, they are posted in the pub for people to join in with. nothing wrong with that.

Some people do never leave the pub (as in real life - you should see my uncle Albert) but thats their choice.

As for making it a sticky or not, if it wasnt, it would be at the top of the normal articles pretty much 99% of the time. That would be more annoying than having it in its own section IMO.

The pub has the admins seal of approval as it serves its purpose - to keep threads on topic and not meander all over the place.

And as for feeling excluded, you should see the cold shoulders I get when i mention training.

Talking of which, if you need any high quality training at an affordable cost, please PM me. This is not a joke. I need work. Go on, please call. I have two children. And a spendaholic wife.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
What wetherspoons? Lucky you!

No humping a cheesegrater...but I can see the comparison with whetherspoons...

And what are we discussing in there now rodders?

What happened, Portnoys, is that people form friendships over time. Thats whats changed since it started. That's why its changed. The regular posters get to know each other better.

For me the word 'clique' implies an unwelcome, insular attitude that isn;t really ever present in the pub. Mainly, people who are friendly get treated as such and people who aren't, aren't.

I'm a very outspoken, opinionated person with a talent of starting arguments and upsetting peoples delicate sensibilities and I tend to get on just fine in there.

Thomond wrote:Any chance you could tell us what those questions are? You seem to give out but not give ways to improve.

That is a matter for internal debate.

What is the purpose of the pub?
Should there be a tacit agreement that open topical debates be discussed in existing articles?

I don't see the discussion going on ed[this topic] in the pub apart from the 'that's Portnoy just being Portnoy' comment.

The Establishment dismisses self-analysis as the rantings of a looney. Plus ca change.

Notch wrote:For me the word 'clique' implies an unwelcome, insular attitude that isn;t really ever present in the pub. Mainly, people who are friendly get treated as such and people who aren't, aren't.

Yup.

I pop in every so often to say hello and add a small (yet incredibly insightful) contribution. I don't feel unwelcome. I don't feel like there's a clique. I see a group of posters who know each other so well they're practically finishing each others sentences. That's what online communities can eventually become.

Virtual pubs can't be forced into being something they are not. They evolve into the grouped personality of those involved. To say a pub should be one way or another, or to say it should change, is to say those posters themselves are the problem. Which is, however you put it, a personal attack on posters on here. Not cool.

Portnoy wrote:All I wanted to do was explore the direction and purpose of the pub.

Why must it have either, Portnoy, how very pro-Establishment of you to assume that it would?!

Portnoy wrote:Personally I like to pop in from time to time, but I now find it to pompous and worthy.

So, hmm, let me get this strait, it was ok when you posted regularly in there, but now that you don't, it's not?

Portnoy wrote:On 606v1 it used to be a haven from wummers but to be honest there's not an excessive number of those on v2.

That's certainly how it started, but it moved way beyond that, but you already know that cos you were part of that experience

Portnoy wrote:I don't understand why the clique need to debate quietly in the pub when they could be doing so openly outside on existing posts.

What clique? it's self-selective and nobody can prevent anyone else from having a say - as you say, there is debate going on in there, mostly healthy, and according to the gospel of St Portnoy, that's a good thing? Most of us do contribute, some more heavily than others, altho it may be difficult to discern that cos it tends to be in areas of particular interest (ie Irish selection, Ireland to reach the semis, further Irish delusion, etc.! ) Perhaps you've forgotten that many of the so-called 'regz' have been posting 'virtual pub' comments to one another for a couple of years or more, so a certain level of friendship has developed (regardless of the fact that many have also met up in real life) - this might make it more difficult for others to feel they can contribute, but there's plenty who have joined over time, and a few who have decided it's not for them - don't you just love the exercise of free-will?

Portnoy wrote:Cue the facebook alternative.

I don't have FaceAche, nor any desire to get an account, so it'll be the main boards plus the pub for me - hope that's alright with you, Dai?

R.I.P. the real Portnoy

Notch wrote:
For me the word 'clique' implies an unwelcome, insular attitude that isn;t really ever present in the pub.

Well I don't know about that. I used the word clique because I think it adequately describes the pub but I don't think that suggests that the pub is insular or unfriendly.

Clearly there are a group of people who have a strong bond and they form the core of the pub. Obviously anyone else who goes in there will not feel part of that. I don't think thats a problem though as long as everyone is respectful of everyone else.

Until 606V2 I didn't know there was a such thing as a "virtual pub" and to be honest I'm still trying to work out how to get a drink in there....

Don't forget GAA,Asbo! Portnoy,apologies for that comment it was out of line but you do really infuriate me sometimes. The pub in my view is for a group of people who have gotten to know each other both on and off the forum.