The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub cf The Establishment Club

First topic message reminder :

Many of you will never have heard of the Establishment Club. It was a counter-establishment club founded by Peter Cook in the seedy parts of Soho in the 1960's. Born out of the satirical roots of Private Eye and That Was The Week That Was (a fantastic satirical BBC live show that pulled few punches). My Dad used to encourage me to watch it (but to be honest, I was a bit young - and in those days most eleven-year-olds would never have been up after 10.30).
But now of course, the Establishment Club is what it says on the tin. With spin-offs worldwide.

Turning to The Dew Drop Inn: Created by Gibson on the weekend of the Irish Grand Slam in '09, it used to be an anarchic mayhem which the Beeb 606 mods to their eternal credit allowed way too much licence. (another BBC tick). But now it's just a comfy self-joining, mutually-admiring, ed I withdraw this assetion] and smug bunch of the politburo from which no member of the v2 team from Hobo to the mods don't sup in mutual admiration.

Sorry to maintain my hereticism. But I'll still put my tuppthwth in the pub from time to time.

R.I.P Rava

Portnoy wrote:No I'm not Cari.

You are choosing to read it that way.

My main theme was to examine the establishmentisation of Da Pub.

Apparently feckless rogues like myself are considered disruptive. But there again you wouldn't want everyone in any society to go along with the masses would you?

And the "pub" isn't going along with the masses, which you seem to be objecting to.

That's new: The establishmentisation of Nottins.

No.

But I hope that I've sown a seed of doubt.

May have an extended germination time though.

p.s. I note that no Politburo members have chosen to comment.

Where are the Owners, Admins and Mods?

Yes the did Portnoy. Here it is-

Hobo wrote:Let me address a few points.

firstly, everyone is welcome in the pub. Conversations do go on in there on various off topic (for rugby anyway) themes. I have on several occasions reminded people that there is an off topic section on the board that people should post on to get a 606v2 view on.

this has always been met with good will and most of the regulars do post in the music, films, tv and news sections now.

There is an element of rugby chat in there but that is usually about social meet ups etc. When threads are started, they are posted in the pub for people to join in with. nothing wrong with that.

Some people do never leave the pub (as in real life - you should see my uncle Albert) but thats their choice.

As for making it a sticky or not, if it wasnt, it would be at the top of the normal articles pretty much 99% of the time. That would be more annoying than having it in its own section IMO.

The pub has the admins seal of approval as it serves its purpose - to keep threads on topic and not meander all over the place.

And as for feeling excluded, you should see the cold shoulders I get when i mention training.

Talking of which, if you need any high quality training at an affordable cost, please PM me. This is not a joke. I need work. Go on, please call. I have two children. And a spendaholic wife.

Portnoy wrote:That's new: The establishmentisation of Nottins.

No. I'm disagreeing with you.

MBTGOG wrote:Yes the did Portnoy. Here it is-

Hobo wrote:Let me address a few points.

firstly, everyone is welcome in the pub. Conversations do go on in there on various off topic (for rugby anyway) themes. I have on several occasions reminded people that there is an off topic section on the board that people should post on to get a 606v2 view on.

this has always been met with good will and most of the regulars do post in the music, films, tv and news sections now.

There is an element of rugby chat in there but that is usually about social meet ups etc. When threads are started, they are posted in the pub for people to join in with. nothing wrong with that.

Some people do never leave the pub (as in real life - you should see my uncle Albert) but thats their choice.

As for making it a sticky or not, if it wasnt, it would be at the top of the normal articles pretty much 99% of the time. That would be more annoying than having it in its own section IMO.

The pub has the admins seal of approval as it serves its purpose - to keep threads on topic and not meander all over the place.

And as for feeling excluded, you should see the cold shoulders I get when i mention training.

Talking of which, if you need any high quality training at an affordable cost, please PM me. This is not a joke. I need work. Go on, please call. I have two children. And a spendaholic wife.

Anyone else place Hobo with Gil from The Simpsons when he mentions training?!

"Doesn't Hobo get a lick of the old brass ring? Doesn't Hobo get a lick!?"

"Honey, you should have seen me with my last customer, I ... no, but I came so close. This guy was as ... Whose voice is that? Is that Fred? ... Aw, you said it was over ... No, don't put him on -- Hello, Fred, h-hi."

prop_lyd wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:Yes the did Portnoy. Here it is-

Hobo wrote:Let me address a few points.

firstly, everyone is welcome in the pub. Conversations do go on in there on various off topic (for rugby anyway) themes. I have on several occasions reminded people that there is an off topic section on the board that people should post on to get a 606v2 view on.

this has always been met with good will and most of the regulars do post in the music, films, tv and news sections now.

There is an element of rugby chat in there but that is usually about social meet ups etc. When threads are started, they are posted in the pub for people to join in with. nothing wrong with that.

Some people do never leave the pub (as in real life - you should see my uncle Albert) but thats their choice.

As for making it a sticky or not, if it wasnt, it would be at the top of the normal articles pretty much 99% of the time. That would be more annoying than having it in its own section IMO.

The pub has the admins seal of approval as it serves its purpose - to keep threads on topic and not meander all over the place.

And as for feeling excluded, you should see the cold shoulders I get when i mention training.

Talking of which, if you need any high quality training at an affordable cost, please PM me. This is not a joke. I need work. Go on, please call. I have two children. And a spendaholic wife.

Anyone else place Hobo with Gil from The Simpsons when he mentions training?!

How the effinell did I miss that.

Sorry Hobo.

prop_lyd wrote:"Honey, you should have seen me with my last customer, I ... no, but I came so close. This guy was as ... Whose voice is that? Is that Fred? ... Aw, you said it was over ... No, don't put him on -- Hello, Fred, h-hi."

I love that character.

Yeah same!! Haven't watched the simpsons for ages

Portnoys; a chronology

I joined 606 at a stage when the Magners was getting on my wick. The Changelang brothers especially. Welsh teams were the match of Irish teams, but were losing matches on incompetence of Scottish referees. That bitterness made me a WUM. I went out of my way to antagonise English and Irish posters, especially the Baron. I considered it a good use of my intellect to hound him.

Over time and having been banned for a comment about Sincero or one of his incarnations I think, I changed my username. It was about the time of the Lions tour. I had a cause and it was a common cause with those people who I had previously wound up. I concentrated on posting about rugby, robustly, but not deliberately antagonistic.

I had sniffed about the pun in the early days, but never got involved. It kept jumping on pages when I couldn't get online and I couldn't be bothered to read back. On those days, I'll be honest the hibernocentric nature was also enough to put me off.

Then after the Lions tour I had a little break and a new phone. That meant I was able to read back the pub in quiet moments and keep up my side of a discussion. What got me in though was Rugbydreamer. Scarlets discussions elsewhere were mental, but dreamer was sensible. Stag was welcoming and I got through the being ignored barrier.

When v2 started I was on here a lot. On occasion I had the last comment on 10 threads. I wanted to make it work. Now I rarely venture outside the pub. I can't tell you why. Currently I am not in rugby mode and that may explain it. I can guarantee you one thing though, once this phoney war is over and the WC and domestic season starts, this place will be buzzing.

Now I can tell you to Flip off if that helps with your persecution complex or I can beg you to post in the pub if you want your ego massaged, I honestly don't care as I appreciate that this board is a collection of random ramblings. All I will say I'd that nobody has told Nottins to Flip off, so I consider that to be a sign of inclusivity.

P.S. The Dewdrop Inn

Do drop in

P.P.S. If you really want to see a clique in action go to the Random Factor

Glas a du wrote:I had sniffed about the pun in the early days, but never got involved. It kept jumping on pages when I couldn't get online and I couldn't be bothered to read back. On those days, I'll be honest the hibernocentric nature was also enough to put me off.

Us Irish can't help it if we like to talk. And we really do like to talk

Well that's nice. As the purpose of my post was to review da pub's wayward progression on v2, it behoves me to respond.

My criticism (not attack) on the pub's ethos is this:

It is a place where mutually approving souls have a tendency to stroke each others' egos. That of course is is not a problem. Da pub has always been a brilliant support group and that's what a really support group should be.

My question is whether or not more than cursory debates on open discussions of a rugby nature should be entertained too much in the pub when there no longer exists a serious wumming environment 'out there'.

By the way if you read the OP, I've edited the 'smug' comment. That was unfounded, uncomplimentary and untrue. So I apologise for that.

But my main point still stands.

And it is not an attack I promise. Otherwise I wouldn't still be chipping in - albeit sometimes being chippy.

"stroke each others' egos"? are you being serious Portnoy? I would like some proof of that.

If we discuss rugby issues in the pub, we do our very best to post those comments outside it as well. You are seeing something that isn't there I'm afraid and creating an issue out of nothing.

I've just come back from a few days away to read this article by you, and I can't even put into words how disappointed I am with you. Really poor form Portnoy.

Portnoy wrote:
My question is whether or not more than cursory debates on open discussions of a rugby nature should be entertained too much in the pub when there no longer exists a serious wumming environment 'out there'.

I take issue with you on that point Portnoy - there are a lot less rugby debates in-pub now than on old 606. And virtually all of the pub regs take vigourous part in rugby debates outside the pub. So IMO you're pontificating about a problem that doesn't exist.

As I said there's nothing wrong with the support mechanism Dreamer,

Absolutely nothing - it great.

As I said, the chit-chat about non-rugby stuff is great (as I write there's stuff going on with MmeF and LSG signing back in and that is most heart-warming).

My comment is about debating stuff on debates in v2 in the pub which really ought to be debated in the 'open'.

I'll take as an example LDCP wrote a brilliant piece earlier (not of all of which I agree) on his take on the EvW match. But that was in the pub and not outside as it were.

As I say there is no problem with brief internal rugby-based comments - of course there's not - my issue is to do with sharing valuable views on already posted discussions in this fledgeling site half in private because it's a bit cosier.

And despite the accusations from all over, I'm trying to be positive for v2 and not negative about the pub.

He did post it outside on the Wales v England post match discussion thread Portnoy.

Seriously, you are talking about somethign that isn't happening.

Portnoy wrote:As I said there's nothing wrong with the support mechanism Dreamer,

Absolutely nothing - it great.

As I said, the chit-chat about non-rugby stuff is great (as I write there's stuff going on with MmeF and LSG signing back in and that is most heart-warming).

My comment is about debating stuff on debates in v2 in the pub which really ought to be debated in the 'open'.

I'll take as an example LDCP wrote a brilliant piece earlier (not of all of which I agree) on his take on the EvW match. But that was in the pub and not outside as it were.

As I say there is no problem with brief internal rugby-based comments - of course there's not - my issue is to do with sharing valuable views on already posted discussions in this fledgeling site half in private because it's a bit cosier.

And despite the accusations from all over, I'm trying to be positive for v2 and not negative about the pub.

Fair call on being positive about the site Portnoy. I'll point out though that LDCP also posted his take on EvW outside in https://www.606v2.com/t11520p200-wales-19-9-england-post-match-discussion - though it's struggled to be noticed in amongst the anthems squabble sadly.

Portnoy wrote:My question is whether or not more than cursory debates on open discussions of a rugby nature should be entertained too much in the pub when there no longer exists a serious wumming environment 'out there'.

Portnoy I fully understand why you ask this question but why oh why did you not phrase it like that in your OP? Instead you use words that a man of your intelligence must know is going to raise hackles and then you wonder why instead of getting a debate you get derision.

"I'll point out though that LDCP also posted his take on EvW outside in https://www.606v2.com/t11520p200-wales-19-9-england-post-match-discussion - though it's struggled to be noticed in amongst the anthems squabble sadly."

Which is why some debates are started in the pub because of all the rubbish outside eclipsing valid points. Maybe the authors of such things want to have a good chat about it instead of posting something and watching it get lost/ignored in an outside thread? What's wrong with that?

Portnoy, as others have already stated, the piece I posted inside the pub I also posted on a discussion thread about the match, as well as on the Sports Gaming section of the forum where I participate in a fantasy rugby game.

Please don't let the facts get in the way of you trying to make something out of nothing though.

Kiwireddevil wrote:
Also, I've removed all the "aorsehole" comments. Unnecessary.

I can live with them - so that's an irrelevance Kiwi.

That's water off a duck's back. And a quite frankly I wish you hadn't.

As I say, my main concern is to share views on v2 in the open.

Never have I been anti-pub. But I have been challenging to received perceptions and the established order.

With only 3000 punters on board, surely the place to discuss rugby is openly and pub talk should be what it says largely what it says on the tin.

Just my heretical view.

It is being discussed openly - why on earth are you refusing to see that?

LDCPete wrote:Portnoy, as others have already stated, the piece I posted inside the pub I also posted on a discussion thread about the match, as well as on the Sports Gaming section of the forum where I participate in a fantasy rugby game.

Please don't let the facts get in the way of you trying to make something out of nothing though.

Sorry Pete, I haven't had time to get round to rugby issues today and as I've been away I found it necessary to address my critics.

Later no doubt I'll bang on about the paucity of attacking flair shown by England and the shocking lack of captaincy demonstrated by Tindall...

"With only 3000 punters on board, surely the place to discuss rugby is openly and pub talk should be what it says largely what it says on the tin".

So in a nutshell you're saying the pub should stay off topic and all rugby matters discussed in the appropriate sections elsewhere?

Who are you to try and dictate what others can discuss and where? Isn't that hypercritical of you? You're banging on about exclusivity, and yet you're excluding some people yourself by saying where they should post.

Portnoy wrote: By the way if you read the OP, I've edited the 'smug' comment. That was unfounded, uncomplimentary and untrue. So I apologise for that.

- big deal, you’ve still kept the “self-joining, mutually-adimiring, bunch of the politburo from which no member of the v2 team from Hobo to the mods don't sup in mutual admiration.”

Anyway - a really brilliant WUM, you certainly seem to have wound a fair few of us up

Cari wrote:"With only 3000 punters on board, surely the place to discuss rugby is openly and pub talk should be what it says largely what it says on the tin".

So in a nutshell you're saying the pub should stay off topic and all rugby matters discussed in the appropriate sections elsewhere?

Who are you to try and dictate what others can discuss and where? Isn't that hypercritical of you? You're banging on about exclusivity, and yet you're excluding some people yourself by saying where they should post.

Oh dear.

You can read into my article and posts whatever you want to Cari. And you can extrapolate my words in whatever way you want to.

It won't change the sentiment of what I meant.

Er...that was a direct quote I took from you Portnoy. In what other way am I supposed to take it? Maybe you should be more articulate with your opinion instead of turning it on me?

And in the context of the overall debate, it's representativeness.

I've read this thread again and you just don't make your point(s) clearly. Perhaps if you cut out the BS and get to the point then people will give your "debate" some serious thought? All I can read into it, is what I stated above. I As always you are just attacking the pub and you have insulted the very people who've been generous and kind to you from it.

maybe I am missing the point here, but are any of the pub going regulars hurting anyone? If they want to have a wee area to discuss things other than rugby whats the problem?

I can't help but think this is a mountain out of a mole hill

Radge - it's just Portnoys slagging it off as per.

In all fairness, reading back again I notice Portnoys did answer Lucky's question - just.

Portnoy wrote:Well that's nice. As the purpose of my post was to review da pub's wayward progression on v2, it behoves me to respond.My criticism (not attack) on the pub's ethos is this:It is a place where mutually approving souls have a tendency to stroke each others' egos. That of course is is not a problem. Da pub has always been a brilliant support group and that's what a really support group should be.My question is whether or not more than cursory debates on open discussions of a rugby nature should be entertained too much in the pub when there no longer exists a serious wumming environment 'out there'.By the way if you read the OP, I've edited the 'smug' comment. That was unfounded, uncomplimentary and untrue. So I apologise for that.But my main point still stands.And it is not an attack I promise. Otherwise I wouldn't still be chipping in - albeit sometimes being chippy.

I'm the chairman of the South Wales Texel Breeders Club. Anybody can join. However it only seems sensible that those interested in Texel sheep do so. Do you want to criticise us for lacking inclusiveness and being cliquey?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:maybe I am missing the point here, but are any of the pub going regulars hurting anyone? If they want to have a wee area to discuss things other than rugby whats the problem?

I can't help but think this is a mountain out of a mole hill

As I've clearly said Radge, and I don't want to be misconstrued here - In a new forum with only a relatively tiny number of posters on the RU board, discussions about topics which are already open should be self-limiting in the pub.

It is not an attack despite the way it's being interpreted.

I referenced LDCP's article earlier and explained my story on that.

I think that it does behove pub regulars to chat generally on the open threads about rugby issues which generally they do.

I do not and have not suggested proscribing rugby debate in the pub. That would be a nonsense - and I (think) I've said that.

Brief references to external debates (like PCP's alluded to earlier) are great. But to my mind extended rugby debates on existing topics in the pub are the worst of both worlds.

And as I want both the pub and v2 to succeed, I guess I have to continue to defend my position from the paranoic responses of the regz,

I'm not a Reg of the pub though, and the purpose of this post continues to elude me. If you are trying to change something that works on pretty much all levels for all the people who post on it I would question why and be inclined to think there is something else that is upsetting you.

I gonna agree with the majority. Fighting a fight that doesn't really exist.

Well I'm going to go with you Staggy.

I guess that my point has been made.

I'm not sure that it wasn't a point worth making though. In fact it was a point well worth making (not that it'll make any difference).

What about my point?

(Insert expletive to ironically highlight the paradox in question)

What POINT was that Portnoy ? When phrasing your reply please take these people as your guide LINK after all I think everyone can agree, we need a more contemporary reimagining of our compatible administrative matrix approaches

The point is Penfro, that he likes the pub, but doesn't.

Glas a du wrote:Portnoys; a chronology

I joined 606 at a stage when the Magners was getting on my wick. The Changelang brothers especially. Welsh teams were the match of Irish teams, but were losing matches on incompetence of Scottish referees. That bitterness made me a WUM. I went out of my way to antagonise English and Irish posters, especially the Baron. I considered it a good use of my intellect to hound him.

Over time and having been banned for a comment about Sincero or one of his incarnations I think, I changed my username. It was about the time of the Lions tour. I had a cause and it was a common cause with those people who I had previously wound up. I concentrated on posting about rugby, robustly, but not deliberately antagonistic.

I had sniffed about the pun in the early days, but never got involved. It kept jumping on pages when I couldn't get online and I couldn't be bothered to read back. On those days, I'll be honest the hibernocentric nature was also enough to put me off.

Then after the Lions tour I had a little break and a new phone. That meant I was able to read back the pub in quiet moments and keep up my side of a discussion. What got me in though was Rugbydreamer. Scarlets discussions elsewhere were mental, but dreamer was sensible. Stag was welcoming and I got through the being ignored barrier.

When v2 started I was on here a lot. On occasion I had the last comment on 10 threads. I wanted to make it work. Now I rarely venture outside the pub. I can't tell you why. Currently I am not in rugby mode and that may explain it. I can guarantee you one thing though, once this phoney war is over and the WC and domestic season starts, this place will be buzzing.

Now I can tell you to Flip off if that helps with your persecution complex or I can beg you to post in the pub if you want your ego massaged, I honestly don't care as I appreciate that this board is a collection of random ramblings. All I will say I'd that nobody has told Nottins to Flip off, so I consider that to be a sign of inclusivity.

I've emboldened the points that I think you want addressing Glas (tell be if I'm wrong):

Over time and having been banned for a comment about Sincero or one of his incarnations I think, I changed my username. It was about the time of the Lions tour. I had a cause and it was a common cause with those people who I had previously wound up. I concentrated on posting about rugby, robustly, but not deliberately antagonistic.


I was sent to the glasshouse for a period on v1 Glas. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. But in this case I promise you, I was not trying to be antagonistic. Just reflective in hopefully positive way.

When v2 started I was on here a lot. On occasion I had the last comment on 10 threads. I wanted to make it work. Now I rarely venture outside the pub. I can't tell you why. Currently I am not in rugby mode and that may explain it. I can guarantee you one thing though, once this phoney war is over and the WC and domestic season starts, this place will be buzzing.

I don't work that way. I'd much rather be 'out there' than in the pub in the new non-wumming environment.
But I hold the pub emotionally so highly that I dared to challenge its core values.
I have a thick skin and others don't...

Now I can tell you to Flip off if that helps with your persecution complex or I can beg you to post in the pub if you want your ego massaged, I honestly don't care as I appreciate that this board is a collection of random ramblings. All I will say I'd that nobody has told Nottins to Flip off, so I consider that to be a sign of inclusivity. [/quote]


I do post in da pub on a spasmodic basis and do so without any fear of paranoia. I know that I'm not flavour of the decade.
Mainly I've built a 'reputation' (as I see it) in the pub not for being necessarily objectionable but just rocking the Celtic coracle.

All I have to say is that my intentions are honourable.

Gods Portnoy, you just don't have a clue do you?

"just rocking the Celtic coracle" - says it all if that's what you really think.

Just blydi spit it out instead of all this pseudo intellectual bull sh!ote - WHAT DO YOU WANT

You may find this useful in compiling your reply - LINK

The foe button is your friend, folks.

I think this thread should also be locked now. Waste of fecking time.

This is quite an enjoyable read.

I'm reminded of a Groucho Marx quote for some reason...

I agree. (good read)

It is fascinating watching the undefendable being defended, and I think a jolly good fight being put up too!