The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub cf The Establishment Club

by Portnoy Fri 12 Aug 2011, 10:39

First topic message reminder :

Many of you will never have heard of the Establishment Club. It was a counter-establishment club founded by Peter Cook in the seedy parts of Soho in the 1960's. Born out of the satirical roots of Private Eye and That Was The Week That Was (a fantastic satirical BBC live show that pulled few punches). My Dad used to encourage me to watch it (but to be honest, I was a bit young - and in those days most eleven-year-olds would never have been up after 10.30).
But now of course, the Establishment Club is what it says on the tin. With spin-offs worldwide.

Turning to The Dew Drop Inn: Created by Gibson on the weekend of the Irish Grand Slam in '09, it used to be an anarchic mayhem which the Beeb 606 mods to their eternal credit allowed way too much licence. (another BBC tick). But now it's just a comfy self-joining, mutually-admiring, ed I withdraw this assetion] ~~and smug~~ bunch of the politburo from which no member of the v2 team from Hobo to the mods don't sup in mutual admiration.

Sorry to maintain my hereticism. But I'll still put my tuppthwth in the pub from time to time.

R.I.P Rava

by Portnoy Mon 15 Aug 2011, 15:57

PenfroPete wrote:Just blydi spit it out instead of all this pseudo intellectual bull sh!ote - WHAT DO YOU WANT

You may find this useful in compiling your reply - [url=http://www.plainenglish.co.ukblr /driavel-defence.html]LINK[/url]

Penfro, I think that I've tried to explain my point in in every way conceivable. It's just this:

The pub has become establishmentised. Which I suppose is fair enough. That happens.
Issues of a rugby nature and are being discussed 'outside' should only to a limited extent be discussed 'privately' because for the good of the board in general, ideas and opinions should be shared,

That just about sums up the basic argument.
Hardly insurrectionist is it?

I only posted this as a viewpoint - not a call to arms.

But I feel that the defensive call to to arms is a bit excessive. I find it a bit of an overreaction personally.

And I'm not too inclined to repeat my views again in plain or pseudo intellectual English.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 15 Aug 2011, 16:04

Portnoy wrote:
...
Issues of a rugby nature and are being discussed 'outside' should only to a limited extent be discussed 'privately' because for the good of the board in general, ideas and opinions should be shared,

A fair point. But since issues of a rugby nature aren't regularly being discussed in the pub to any great extent, it's one that's a bit redundant.

by Trevor Brennan Rugby Tour Mon 15 Aug 2011, 16:04

Portnoy wrote:R.I.P Rava

Did I miss something? Has there been a death. If so my condolances.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 15 Aug 2011, 16:07

Portnoy

You do realise that this site has a PM function, and that I am sure I am not alone in having used it to have a 1 - 2 - 1 conversation with various people about rugby related issues. Is this too unacceptable to you, as I am not giving my opinion on a thread on the main board?

The pub is not 'The Establishment', it is open to all, including yourself. If people only want to post there, then that is their choice, if they want to post there and elsewhere, or simply post elsewhere and no in there, then that is their choice also.

Nobody on this site is having a gun held to their head to do anything or post on any thread that they don't want to.

Seriously man, this is just a WUM article that does you no credit. You are better than that. Any chance you want to get into a rugby discussion instead of all this nonsense. Come on over to the Wales v England post match discussion thread and let us know your thoughts. Ale

by PenfroPete Mon 15 Aug 2011, 16:16

Trevor Brennan Rugby Tour wrote:
Portnoy wrote:R.I.P Rava
Did I miss something? Has there been a death. If so my condolances.

- Rava is a poster from the original 606 Trev, as a lot of us were. He came over here after that shut down, but has now decided not to post on here. He's grand mind The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub cf The Establishment Club - Page 4 3610695981

The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub cf The Establishment Club - Page 4 3610695981

LDCPete wrote: simply post elsewhere and no in there,

- you've been hanging about with ASBO too much The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub cf The Establishment Club - Page 4 1805857014

by poissonrouge Mon 15 Aug 2011, 16:19

Portnoy,

You say you don't want to attack the people who post in the pub but if your only thought was to get some people to post outside the pub why did you chose to use these ways to describe the pub and those who post there?

"...mutually approving souls have a tendency to stroke each others' egos.."

"...a comfy self-joining, mutually-admiring.."

" ...smug bunch of the politburo..."

"...sup in mutual admiration."

"...self-appointed inner clique."

Can you see that those words are hurtful? This is not the first time you have spoken in such a way.

" pompous and worthy"

by red_stag Mon 15 Aug 2011, 16:22

Fully agree MrsP.

by Portnoy Mon 15 Aug 2011, 16:28

Something tells me that my post is causing an over-reaction.

So I'd like to stop it here. Not in Cari's way - to suppress debate.

But because it's getting too emotional.

But I'd object to the debate being locked.

by PenfroPete Mon 15 Aug 2011, 16:31

by Portnoy Mon 15 Aug 2011, 16:38

poissonrouge wrote:Portnoy,

You say you don't want to attack the people who post in the pub but if your only thought was to get some people to post outside the pub why did you chose to use these ways to describe the pub and those who post there?

"...mutually approving souls have a tendency to stroke each others' egos.."

"...a comfy self-joining, mutually-admiring.."

" ...smug bunch of the politburo..."

"...sup in mutual admiration."

"...self-appointed inner clique."

Can you see that those words are hurtful? This is not the first time you have spoken in such a way.

" pompous and worthy"

This is indeed not the first time I have spoken in such a way MmeF.

But selecting chosen phrases isolated from their context is stretching it a bit far.

Problem is that I have have confidence in my rationale.

And it's not exactly revolutionary. Just an opinion which I'm prepared to defend.

How's the mouse?

by **rodders** Mon 15 Aug 2011, 16:40

Portnoy wrote:
But I'd object to the debate being locked.

What debate?

Hey Penfro tell Rava to come back, we need someone to represent Ballymoney on here Wink

.

by poissonrouge Mon 15 Aug 2011, 16:43

But those are the parts of your posts which I suspect people are offended by. That is why I have quoted them.

You are of course fully entitled to your opinion I am just curious as to why you chose to express it in such an emotive and unpleasant manner.

by Portnoy Mon 15 Aug 2011, 16:43

PenfroPete wrote:

Innit?

I've had my say. It's not been agreed with.

I offered to lay down my arms hours ago (without changing my views) and the tirade continues.
But if I don't respectfully answer all comments, then that would be an insult to any poster.

by Cari Mon 15 Aug 2011, 16:49

Portnoy your replies don't seem to be offering any coherent debatable answers. Like I said earlier, you're just attacking the pub as you have been for ages, and in the process insulting those within it who include people that have shown you courtesy and kindness in person. Why? So you can just wind people up? Sad.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon 15 Aug 2011, 16:54

THIS THREAD HAS NOW BEEN LOCKED

Spoiler:

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 15 Aug 2011, 16:56

All, Portnoy has withdrawn his comments that got people's back up. Re-digging old ground is simply going to add to the rancour that's already covered that stuff.

He's re-summarised his argument as quoted below. For the good of everyone's tempers can we keep debate to that.

The pub has become establishmentised. Which I suppose is fair enough. That happens.
Issues of a rugby nature and are being discussed 'outside' should only to a limited extent be discussed 'privately' because for the good of the board in general, ideas and opinions should be shared,

by Cari Mon 15 Aug 2011, 16:59

Kiwi - with all due respect, the trouble is he's not debating his points effectively. People have replied to the points you've highlighted above but he's just replying with WUMs. That's why I suggested the thread be locked. Not because I'm pro-establishment or whatever BS he thinks it is, but because the debate is going nowhere and it isn't even a valid one.

by poissonrouge Mon 15 Aug 2011, 17:01

Kiwi,

I must have missed his post where he withdraws the things he said.

If there was one it might help.

by Portnoy Mon 15 Aug 2011, 17:10

All I have to say for myself is that this is no way an attack on the pub I really do appreciate.

It is genuinely a question about its purpose, growth and the development of v2.

I wanted to respond to MmmeF's unncontextualised phrases. But that will add nothing to the 'debate'.

It's not an attack. It's a view.

by **Notch** Mon 15 Aug 2011, 17:16

Let's not gang up on Portnoys. He's entitled to his views.

I think he's in the minority, but he's entitled to air his views on the subject should he so desire without us jumping on his back. I think it's been pointed out how certain things he's said could be construed as hurtful and offensive to certain posters, but we're not going to change it. Let's all live and let live.

Portnoys, I don't really understand why you've decided to take such a contrarian stance but I hope that you can continue to contribute views on rugby on this board and I look forward to discussing the nuances of Ulster vs Tigers when those games come around.

It would be great if you could see fit to let this topic go as you're only succeeding in winding up some good people to no avail. Best wishes mate.

by Portnoy Mon 15 Aug 2011, 17:20

Cari wrote:Kiwi - with all due respect, the trouble is he's not debating his points effectively. People have replied to the points you've highlighted above but he's just replying with WUMs. That's why I suggested the thread be locked. Not because I'm pro-establishment or whatever BS he thinks it is, but because the debate is going nowhere and it isn't even a valid one.

Of course my inability to defend my very minor and let's be honest extremely esoteric post done nothing has done nothing to prevent the debate from raging.

And I do not reply in wums.

by Cari Mon 15 Aug 2011, 17:39

That's a great post Notch. Smile

by PenfroPete Mon 15 Aug 2011, 17:40

Kiwireddevil wrote:All, Portnoy has withdrawn his comments that got people's back up.

To be fair he hasn't though Kiwi - "But now it's just a comfy self-joining, mutually-admiring, ed I withdraw this assetion] ~~and smug~~ bunch of the politburo from which no member of the v2 team from Hobo to the mods don't sup in mutual admiration."

All he's done is 'withdraw' the smug bit by crossing it out. Why not DELETE it and the other bit's about mutually-admiring, politburo ..etc if he genuinely wants to withdraw it The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub cf The Establishment Club - Page 4 3610695981

by robbo277 Mon 15 Aug 2011, 17:46

I'll say one thing for this discussion though, I've learned a new word: Politburo. I'll definitely be trying to work it into discussions tonight!

by Portnoy Mon 15 Aug 2011, 17:46

Notcavh wrote:Let's not gang up on Portnoys. He's entitled to his views.

I think he's in the minority, but he's entitled to air his views on the subject should he so desire without us jumping on his back. I think it's been pointed out how certain things he's said could dobe construed as hurtful and offensive to certain posters, but we're not going to change it. Let's all live and let live.

Portnoys, I don't really understand why you've decided to take such a contrarian stance but I hope that you can continue to contribute views on rugby on this board and I look forward to discussing the nuances of Ulster vs Tigers when those games come around.

It would be great if you could see fit to let this topic go as you're only succeeding in winding up some good people to no avail. Best wishes mate.

Twice I've tried to.

But I take real exception to people who want to throttle debate through establishment connections.
views
And despite the official plea and the unofficial scam to close this post, unfortunately whilst the questions and criticisms come in what am I supposed to do?
Run away? Just shut up (the preferred option)? Or stand my ground (the least preferred option)?

"Portnoys, I don't really understand why you've decided to take such a contrarian stance but I hope that you can continue to contribute views on rugby on this board and I look forward to discussing the nuances of Ulster vs Tigers when those games come around."

It is a debate which has got out of proportion. And one which many have taken exception to. But I have some rigour in my views as you may have surmised.

by **Notch** Mon 15 Aug 2011, 17:50

Just leave it and go out and enjoy your life, really, would be my advice. We've all got a common love and passion for the sport and we can enjoy it and discuss it together. Whether or not you decide to post in the pub, I'm sure we can all (hopefully) just get on in our mutual appreciation of the game and our shared rugby fan experience?

I don't see the need for this argument at all. And that goes for both the original post and those of us who have perhaps taken it the wrong way. Make tea, not war.

by Thomond Mon 15 Aug 2011, 17:53

Would coffee be alright?

by Cari Mon 15 Aug 2011, 17:54

Portnoy it's got out of hand because the Mods have allowed it to. This thread was opened with a comment that concerned an unclear debate and was littered with insults and yet it was allowed to stay. So what constitutes a WUM article?

In addition to that the way in which you have (not) articulated your view has stoked the ongoing discussion but at least you've got the reaction you wanted.

I'm not going to comment on this thread anymore, but I will close by saying the mods have scored a bit of an own goal by keeping this thread up. There's no need for it, and it seems to me that some WUMs can have free reign when they want because as I said, I would've considered the opening post a WUM and edited it or removed it.

by Portnoy Mon 15 Aug 2011, 17:55

PenfroPete wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:All, Portnoy has withdrawn his comments that got people's back up.
To be fair he hasn't though Kiwi - "But now it's just a comfy self-joining, mutually-admiring, ed I withdraw this assetion] ~~and smug~~ bunch of the politburo from which no member of the v2 team from Hobo to the mods don't sup in mutual admiration."

All he's done is 'withdraw' the smug bit by crossing it out. Why not DELETE it and the other bit's about mutually-admiring, politburo ..etc if he genuinely wants to withdraw it

Because I openly deleted the 'smug' assertion because that is just plain wrong Pete. And I wanted to openly retract the word. So I openly did it to avoid any accusations of hypocricy.

The rest I'll stand by though..

by Portnoy Mon 15 Aug 2011, 17:58

Notch wrote:Just leave it and go out and enjoy your life, really, would be my advice. We've all got a common love and passion for the sport and we can enjoy it and discuss it together. Whether or not you decide to post in the pub, I'm sure we can all (hopefully) just get on in our mutual appreciation of the game and our shared rugby fan experience?

I don't see the need for this argument at all. And that goes for both the original post and those of us who have perhaps taken it the wrong way. Make tea, not war.

Agreed. That's the third time now.

by **Notch** Mon 15 Aug 2011, 18:03

Thomond wrote:Would coffee be alright?

Never!!!

Nah, actually, its fine.

by Guest Mon 15 Aug 2011, 18:04

Coffee in the morning, then tea in the afternoon.

by Thomond Mon 15 Aug 2011, 18:05

I don't drink Coffee,except for Iced Coffees and I must be one of the few Irish people who doesn't drink 5 cups of tea a day.

by poissonrouge Mon 15 Aug 2011, 18:13

"Because I openly deleted the 'smug' assertion because that is just plain wrong Pete. And I wanted to openly retract the word. So I openly did it to avoid any accusations of hypocricy.

The rest I'll stand by though.."

Thankyou for clarifying that Portnoy. I had hoped you hadn't meant those words but clearly you did.

by Portnoy Mon 15 Aug 2011, 18:49

Yes. Unfortunately the context (removing the s word) is

"self-joining, mutually-admiring bunch of the politburo from which no member of the v2 team from Hobo to the mods don't sup in mutual admiration."

To be honest I wish I'd chosen a better word than politburo for an influential inner circle. But that's the best I could come up with. Politburo implies too much (unfairly in this context) political influence.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 16 Aug 2011, 09:28

SafeAsMilk wrote:Coffee in the morning, then tea in the afternoon.

I couldn't drink coffee first thing. But then I'm a teahead.

by Mickado Tue 16 Aug 2011, 12:33

Notch wrote:
prop_lyd wrote:"Honey, you should have seen me with my last customer, I ... no, but I came so close. This guy was as ... Whose voice is that? Is that Fred? ... Aw, you said it was over ... No, don't put him on -- Hello, Fred, h-hi."

I love that character.

Based on Jack Lemmon’s character in Glengary Glenross I believe. Cracking movie.

by Portnoy Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:35

Honey I do love the kids.

If you take my meaning.

by Glas a du Fri 19 Aug 2011, 10:26

Portnoy, you're a good man I'm sure. Why the belligerence? Are you that angry with yourself/the world?

by Portnoy Fri 19 Aug 2011, 10:45

Glas a du wrote:Portnoy, you're a good man I'm sure. Why the belligerence? Are you that angry with yourself/the world?

Myself. But I do promote my version of the greater good.

by TheGreyGhost Fri 19 Aug 2011, 10:52

I don't know about this thread, it's becoming some comfy meandering self-joining mutually admiring club. On that basis and since this topic is already catered for on pub thread I call for it to be locked or merged.

by Glas a du Fri 19 Aug 2011, 12:25

Here here.

by Portnoy Fri 19 Aug 2011, 12:49

Hear hear! too Glas.

I don't agree with GG's comment in any way because it was bollix and he has his own single fixed agenda.

Trouble is with me that is that I have a series of unclubbable articles but I remain defiantly independent.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 19 Aug 2011, 12:50

You are a rock. You are an island. Very Happy

by Glas a du Fri 19 Aug 2011, 12:57

And we all know how that song ends.

music

Cecilia your breaking my hart... music

by Portnoy Fri 19 Aug 2011, 13:11

Glas a du wrote:And we all know how that song ends.

Cecilia your breaking my hart...

The last line is "I fall on the floor and I'm laughing"

by Guest Fri 19 Aug 2011, 13:14

Portnoy wrote:
Glas a du wrote:And we all know how that song ends.

Cecilia your breaking my hart...

The last line is "I fall on the floor and I'm laughing"

Simon and Garfunkel patent the ROFL!

by Portnoy Fri 19 Aug 2011, 13:18

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Portnoy wrote:
Glas a du wrote:And we all know how that song ends.

Cecilia your breaking my hart...

The last line is "I fall on the floor and I'm laughing"

Simon and Garfunkel patent the ROFL!

Something like that that Safe.

by TheGreyGhost Fri 19 Aug 2011, 13:59

Portnoy wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
Portnoy wrote:
Glas a du wrote:And we all know how that song ends.

Cecilia your breaking my hart...

The last line is "I fall on the floor and I'm laughing"

Simon and Garfunkel patent the ROFL!

Something like that that Safe.

Although notably whilst wearing all black clothes.

by Glas a du Fri 19 Aug 2011, 14:42

Is there a song they complete with the words:

music

My flip bottom fell off I was laughing so much... music

by Sponsored content