What we learned; France 19- 12 Ireland

First topic message reminder :

1. Healy- Was first choice and remains so. Scrummaged well and a nuisance in the loose
2. Best- Dear oh. The door is firmly ajar for Flannery now. They will both see gametime in the next two games but we cannot afford to lose so much set piece ball.
3. Ross- First choice and in reality only scrummaging TH. We are fooked if he gets injured
4. DOC- Scrapped well. Maybe not as conspicuous as usual but not bad for a 1st game
5. Cullen- Lineout went to pieces and he must take some blame. The difference when POC came on was stark. Still will make the squad
6. Ryan- Should have the lock/backrow spot sewn up. A decent showing
7. SOB- A big plus for me. May not be as effective as some at the ruck but was always busy and made yards. A Ferris,SOB, Heaslip backrow may be an option (have to see what Wally thinks of that though)
8. Leamy- He was ok (not great)but we really need our top 4 backrows above him.
9. Reddan- had a thankless task in the first half and in general. The ball was difficult but still our number 1.
10. ROG- I thought he was very good. Was targetted but fronted up and his kicking helped stifle the french in the 2nd half
11. Fitz- He was poor. Bar one break towards the end he spilled ball a few times. Definately battling with McFadden.
12. Wallace- I would say he has answered a few critics. France came back into it when we started bypassing him again. Kicked beautifully and wasnt shown up physically.
13. Earls- Outshone by Wallace but looked very dangerous when he got space. In a battle with Trimble and Bowe for the wings. Still a starter for me and unlucky at the end.
14. Trimble- Excellent showing. Set Kearney up beautifully for our best attack and looked good defensively. Will have given Kidney a nice headache.
15. Kearney- another decent showing. Looks good under the highball and ran decent lines. Still not really an attacking 15 but so dependable.

16. Flannery-A shame about the last lineout but looks primed to regain his 2 shirt
17. Buckley- Should he even go after that? I understand why Deccie tried him at LH but we are screwed if he takes the field come the RWC. (in a big game)
18. POC- Looked hungry and was an excellent 30 mins or so
19. Heaslip- Much like POC he was excellent
20. Murray- Looks sharp. I would like him to go to the RWC but only if he isnt going to sit on his derriere for the tournament.
21. McFadden- Hard to say really. Behind Wallace after tonight and fighting with Fitz it looks like
22. Jones- I like the cut of him. Looks solid and pacy and put in a lovely kick. Should go but again only if we use him!

Dublin_Dave I agree almost with every word of that, however Ferris is available for selection next week and I think if he survives the next two games with his knees intact then he'll be on the plane. To be honest we need him too because no one else really brings what he does to the party.

Edit: Which reminds me ....where the flip is David Wallace? He'd come in handy too .... Is he injured?

Cullen is a player who will do decent in the lineout and I would expect he has a big involvement in the scrum aswell. He isn't a huge tackler and probably won't do much at the breakdown. Paul O'Connell is very similar to him,would you want both playing together? It puts a lot more pressure on your backs and backrow.

Where's Wally??????!!!!!!!!

The bottom right hand corner of the page.

Thomond wrote:The bottom right hand corner of the page.

No not that one, the real one and I don't mean that bloke from Ulster who makes all the wrong descisions either....

Seriously is he injured, he hasn't been mentioned much?

roddersm wrote:Dublin_Dave I agree almost with every word of that, however Ferris is available for selection next week and I think if he survives the next two games with his knees intact then he'll be on the plane. To be honest we need him too because no one else really brings what he does to the party.

Edit: Which reminds me ....where the flip is David Wallace? He'd come in handy too .... Is he injured?

Nope, just being minded. I see Ferris was commenting on his twitter that in some sled pushing comp Wally was first, Ferris 2nd and BOD 3rd!

Thanks Sin. Well there you go then the Munster boys are best at sled pushing....

Mind you It's a bit worrying when your best sled pushers are two OAP's and a guy with 1 leg!

Ferris should defo should go if remotely fit. however im suspicious about his supposed recovery. would love to have a fit ferris at it but reports are not too good.

if jennings was injured fair enough. Alas i think we will go to the world cup with sob as back up 7. Think Jennings would be useful to have down there but Deccie does not for whatever reason. Cest la vie

roddersm wrote:Thanks Sin. Well there you go then the Munster boys are best at sled pushing....

Mind you It's a bit worrying when your best sled pushers are two OAP's and a guy with 1 leg!

Well, Ferris was boasting about being a Top 3 (of the OAPs).

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:Thanks Sin. Well there you go then the Munster boys are best at sled pushing....

Mind you It's a bit worrying when your best sled pushers are two OAP's and a guy with 1 leg!

Well, Ferris was boasting about being a Top 3 (of the OAPs).

Dub_Dave - Jennings was 4th after BOD according to Ferris!

I imagine that in the next game, the back 3 will start

Earls-Jones-Trimble (Bowe looks like he is out until the English match)
Fitzgerald comes on for Jones at some point (60mins+ please) and Earls goes to 15.

I'd play Murphy in the Connacht game with kearney on the bench.

Really think Earls at 15 is off the cards - I reckon it was a worst case scenario if the others were either injured, a mile off form, or in Felix Jones case not "ready" to step up. Everything looks rosie at 15 currently for Ireland.


Earls needs game time on the wing - no need to mess him around and shift him about constantly- happened at munster last season and his form dipped, the chap will end up jack of all and master of none. Trimble has been class on the wing thus far but ball is in Earls court.

How much cover for full back do we really need!! This give everyone a go a full back is silly.

paddy wallace could do a job at fullback. worked a treat in the welsh game

two victories now lads. then i will start to believe we can beat aus and sth africa down there

If we beat Aus,theen we probably won't have to beat South Africa(providing we see off the challenge of Italy of course)

Jones is competing with Fitzgerald and McFadden for possibly only one remaining backline spot. I'd rather have a decent specialist fullback as an option to play against Russia, especially as Earls and Kearney will both be rested that game.

should have read "or" South Africa. Anytime i have posted today you pernickety toe rags have made valid corrections. No flys on you lot!

The Great Aukster wrote:Jones is competing with Fitzgerald and McFadden for possibly only one remaining backline spot. I'd rather have a decent specialist fullback as an option to play against Russia, especially as Earls and Kearney will both be rested that game.

I think earls will be playing a lot of rugby over the next few weeks. He is obviously seen as the back up 13 as he stayed in the centre even when mcfadden came on. He will play when bod is rested and will also play a part in the other games. I think that jones will probably go, especially considering kearney picked up a slight injury last night. Kidney is a fan of jones which, along with the fact he is a good player in good form, will help him.

Thomond wrote:Cullen is a player who will do decent in the lineout and I would expect he has a big involvement in the scrum aswell. He isn't a huge tackler and probably won't do much at the breakdown. Paul O'Connell is very similar to him,would you want both playing together? It puts a lot more pressure on your backs and backrow.

I disagree with you saying poc doesn't do much at the breakdown. That is one of the areas which sets him apart from other second rows. He is an absolute nuisance and the breakdown and wins more than his fair share of turnover ball. I don't think you can start cullen and poc but poc is capable of playing doc's game if necessary and doing it better than doc if needed. But a poc doc partnership is stronger than a cullen poc partnership.

DOC does more work at the breakdown then POC but Paul is good at the breakdown work when he does do it.

Thomond wrote:DOC does more work at the breakdown then POC but Paul is good at the breakdown work when he does do it.

Not offensively. Doc will be the second man in, to protect Irish ball, often enough but that is because he rarely carries the ball. When it comes to counterrucking or turnovers doc is nowhere to be seen.

Funny how much better DOC and Ryan played when POC came on the other night. (I would like to see Cullen play along side him to see what they would offer.) The man just has the X factor and is one of those leaders you would go through a wall for. Pity for him and luxury for us that he coincided with BOD.

I don't think it matters who's captain between BOD and POC. They're both experienced enough to make the difficult calls. Neither are really brilliant at keeping the ref on side. Well neither are in McCaw's league anyway. Both are vocal motivators and both inspire with their actions on the field. POC is the pack leader. BOD is the backs leader. I reckon the team (including BOD) see POC as a sort of co-captain anyway.

I agree Reckless, but I meant more in a " telling the grand kids about his days of captaining Ireland"

Feagh McHugh wrote:I agree Reckless, but I meant more in a " telling the grand kids about his days of captaining Ireland"

I don't agree with you on that,sure it would be nice to say I captained the Ireland team for years. But he has captained them a few times and he captained the Lions. It would be a much bigger pity for bod if he never got to play with poc or vice versa. Its scary how much of a difference poc makes to the pack. They play better individually as well as better as a team. Already on this thread I said I think its either a fear of letting him down or a fear of him shouting at them. He leads by example but its disappointing that he has to be there and that others need him to play to their potential. Doc should be ashamed of his performance from last week. He has 70 something caps and he can't play to his best without poc which is pathetic. I don't think cullen poc will work as well as doc poc. I've said it before on here and I still believe it, cullen is not up to international standard. It just doesn't have the physicality for it.

Are there players who are dead certs and we can say there's no point in playing them in the final three matches, except for match fitness?

I wouldn't give Earls, Trimble or Kearney any more matches. They've played, they've done well, they've made the squad as far as I'm concerned. I know Earls has played only one match, but he has youth and exhuberance on his side and hardly looked like he needs any more game time to get match fit. We need to play Murphy, Duffy, Jones (as a starter) Bowe a couple of times each to get them up to speed and in the case of everyone except Bowe to see what they offer.

Any others?

greybeard wrote:Are there players who are dead certs and we can say there's no point in playing them in the final three matches, except for match fitness?

I wouldn't give Earls, Trimble or Kearney any more matches. They've played, they've done well, they've made the squad as far as I'm concerned. I know Earls has played only one match, but he has youth and exhuberance on his side and hardly looked like he needs any more game time to get match fit. We need to play Murphy, Duffy, Jones (as a starter) Bowe a couple of times each to get them up to speed and in the case of everyone except Bowe to see what they offer.

Any others?

Neither will be going unless there are two or three injuries so I'd be surprised if they got any gametime except the connacht match this week. Earls needs more time. Bowe is still injured. I think most of the players who are going need more gametime only players who have ruled themselves out won't see anymore. The only players who have definitely ruled themselves out imo are ronan, mod and horan.

Will the side to face Connacht be named tomorrow? That'll be interesting.

Yeah, if there's a decent squad named I'll go to it. €5 for a student - thanks very much!! and €10 for an adult if they refuse to accept my non mint conditioned and out of date student card isn't the worst either.

I have a feeling it'll be the likes of horan, cronin, hayes, ronan, henry and duffy involved but it could be Ferris' return match...

Notch wrote:Will the side to face Connacht be named tomorrow? That'll be interesting.

I think both sides are announced on wednesday. Wallace will probably play at 10 against connacht so the centre combination for the france game will be very interesting. The scrumhalf selection will be interesting as well because there are 5 going for 4, so whoever misses out is probably out of contention.

I also think Wallace should play 10 against Connacht. Either D'Arcy or BOD to play 12 against France, and then go with the combo we plan to play against the Aussies versus England.

It'll be interesting to see who is called up. Maybe Cave and Henry from Ulster.

Notch wrote:I also think Wallace should play 10 against Connacht. Either D'Arcy or BOD to play 12 against France, and then go with the combo we plan to play against the Aussies versus England.

It'll be interesting to see who is called up. Maybe Cave and Henry from Ulster.

I'm not sure on cave I'd say we might see mcfadden at 13 against connacht. We might see something like darcy mcfadden against connacht and bod earls against france.

We should go all out to win the last two test matches with close to our best team. Winning is a habit and we need to get into it fast. I'd like for us to be ranked as the top team in Europe going into the tournament. That, along with two wins, will give us much needed confidence boost. When is the Connacht match?

valjester wrote:

Notch wrote:I also think Wallace should play 10 against Connacht. Either D'Arcy or BOD to play 12 against France, and then go with the combo we plan to play against the Aussies versus England.

It'll be interesting to see who is called up. Maybe Cave and Henry from Ulster.

I'm not sure on cave I'd say we might see mcfadden at 13 against connacht. We might see something like darcy mcfadden against connacht and bod earls against france.

Wallace-D'Arcy-McFadden and Sexton-BOD-Earls would be awesome!

Not that ROG did anything wrong against France, I thought he was excellent and will be right in the mix for first choice. I also agree with Feckless. We need to get our best players out there playing together to get some results and momentum. But I don't mind if we rotate a bit in some of our stronger positions ie. Sexton and ROG get a game each, O'Brien and Ferris (touch wood) get a game each, Flannery and Best get a game each.

The Connacht match is on Thursday night.

Notch wrote:

valjester wrote:

Notch wrote:I also think Wallace should play 10 against Connacht. Either D'Arcy or BOD to play 12 against France, and then go with the combo we plan to play against the Aussies versus England.

It'll be interesting to see who is called up. Maybe Cave and Henry from Ulster.

I'm not sure on cave I'd say we might see mcfadden at 13 against connacht. We might see something like darcy mcfadden against connacht and bod earls against france.

Wallace-D'Arcy-McFadden and Sexton-BOD-Earls would be awesome!

Not that ROG did anything wrong against France, I thought he was excellent and will be right in the mix for first choice. I also agree with Feckless. We need to get our best players out there playing together to get some results and momentum. But I don't mind if we rotate a bit in some of our stronger positions ie. Sexton and ROG get a game each, O'Brien and Ferris (touch wood) get a game each, Flannery and Best get a game each.

The Connacht match is on Thursday night.

Yeah it would be nice to win the two games and I think that kidney will put out strong teams but there is some room for experimentation. Darcy is not fully fit and takes time to get up to speed normally so we would be stronger without him, give him time against connacht and if he does well give him time against england. Some players will be very nervous next week, trying to deal with the pressure of knowing they won't make the squad with poor performances. But players such as ferris, darcy and bowe will go if fit and need to be eased back into make sure they are at their best in the world cup.

valjester wrote:

greybeard wrote:Are there players who are dead certs and we can say there's no point in playing them in the final three matches, except for match fitness?

I wouldn't give Earls, Trimble or Kearney any more matches. They've played, they've done well, they've made the squad as far as I'm concerned. I know Earls has played only one match, but he has youth and exhuberance on his side and hardly looked like he needs any more game time to get match fit. We need to play Murphy, Duffy, Jones (as a starter) Bowe a couple of times each to get them up to speed and in the case of everyone except Bowe to see what they offer.

Any others?

Neither will be going unless there are two or three injuries so I'd be surprised if they got any gametime except the connacht match this week. Earls needs more time. Bowe is still injured. I think most of the players who are going need more gametime only players who have ruled themselves out won't see anymore. The only players who have definitely ruled themselves out imo are ronan, mod and horan.

But how can we say neither will go if neither are played? Surely the point of naming fringe players in the squad is to see if they are good enough to get those final positions. Otherwise there was no point in ever naming them in the first place besides them being injury cover.

If there's no call for them playing any warm up matches then surely the Connacht match is a waste of time?

Well I'd expect to see Murphy and Duffy involved with either 22 this weekend. I expect Murphy to be looked at this weekend for the seniors and Duffy to play against his own province.

greybeard wrote:

valjester wrote:

greybeard wrote:Are there players who are dead certs and we can say there's no point in playing them in the final three matches, except for match fitness?

I wouldn't give Earls, Trimble or Kearney any more matches. They've played, they've done well, they've made the squad as far as I'm concerned. I know Earls has played only one match, but he has youth and exhuberance on his side and hardly looked like he needs any more game time to get match fit. We need to play Murphy, Duffy, Jones (as a starter) Bowe a couple of times each to get them up to speed and in the case of everyone except Bowe to see what they offer.

Any others?

Neither will be going unless there are two or three injuries so I'd be surprised if they got any gametime except the connacht match this week. Earls needs more time. Bowe is still injured. I think most of the players who are going need more gametime only players who have ruled themselves out won't see anymore. The only players who have definitely ruled themselves out imo are ronan, mod and horan.

But how can we say neither will go if neither are played? Surely the point of naming fringe players in the squad is to see if they are good enough to get those final positions. Otherwise there was no point in ever naming them in the first place besides them being injury cover.

If there's no call for them playing any warm up matches then surely the Connacht match is a waste of time?

Murphy might get time in the game against connacht. Jones needs to start a match and kearney needs gametime. I think at this stage kidney has his mind made up that they are his top 2. Duffy won't be going. He was named in the squad as there were doubts over kearney and murphys fitness and whether or not jones would be ready for this level. Those doubts are over. Kearney and Jones are clearly ahead of them. I'd be surprised if duffy starts either match for ireland this week. He will probably play for connacht as that will mean kidney can look over 3 fullbacks but I'm pretty sure hes already made up his mind.