What we learned; France 19- 12 Ireland

First topic message reminder :

1. Healy- Was first choice and remains so. Scrummaged well and a nuisance in the loose
2. Best- Dear oh. The door is firmly ajar for Flannery now. They will both see gametime in the next two games but we cannot afford to lose so much set piece ball.
3. Ross- First choice and in reality only scrummaging TH. We are fooked if he gets injured
4. DOC- Scrapped well. Maybe not as conspicuous as usual but not bad for a 1st game
5. Cullen- Lineout went to pieces and he must take some blame. The difference when POC came on was stark. Still will make the squad
6. Ryan- Should have the lock/backrow spot sewn up. A decent showing
7. SOB- A big plus for me. May not be as effective as some at the ruck but was always busy and made yards. A Ferris,SOB, Heaslip backrow may be an option (have to see what Wally thinks of that though)
8. Leamy- He was ok (not great)but we really need our top 4 backrows above him.
9. Reddan- had a thankless task in the first half and in general. The ball was difficult but still our number 1.
10. ROG- I thought he was very good. Was targetted but fronted up and his kicking helped stifle the french in the 2nd half
11. Fitz- He was poor. Bar one break towards the end he spilled ball a few times. Definately battling with McFadden.
12. Wallace- I would say he has answered a few critics. France came back into it when we started bypassing him again. Kicked beautifully and wasnt shown up physically.
13. Earls- Outshone by Wallace but looked very dangerous when he got space. In a battle with Trimble and Bowe for the wings. Still a starter for me and unlucky at the end.
14. Trimble- Excellent showing. Set Kearney up beautifully for our best attack and looked good defensively. Will have given Kidney a nice headache.
15. Kearney- another decent showing. Looks good under the highball and ran decent lines. Still not really an attacking 15 but so dependable.

16. Flannery-A shame about the last lineout but looks primed to regain his 2 shirt
17. Buckley- Should he even go after that? I understand why Deccie tried him at LH but we are screwed if he takes the field come the RWC. (in a big game)
18. POC- Looked hungry and was an excellent 30 mins or so
19. Heaslip- Much like POC he was excellent
20. Murray- Looks sharp. I would like him to go to the RWC but only if he isnt going to sit on his derriere for the tournament.
21. McFadden- Hard to say really. Behind Wallace after tonight and fighting with Fitz it looks like
22. Jones- I like the cut of him. Looks solid and pacy and put in a lovely kick. Should go but again only if we use him!

I was impressed by Felix Jones and Conor Murray when they came on. I'd be very happy to see them get more gametime.

valjester wrote:
I'm just watching the match again at the moment and for the try, wallace made the tackle but pallison's arms were free to offload for clerc, who went in through the gap between cullen and where wallace had been. I don't think you can really blame him. It was a good french try that was coming.

+ 1 it was a great offload and there was nothing wrong with the tackle. Someone should maybe have picked up Clerc's run but you can't blame Wallace for that.

Notch wrote:I was impressed by Felix Jones and Conor Murray when they came on. I'd be very happy to see them get more gametime.

+ 1 both were superb and I think both should go to NZ.

The only proviso i have over taking Murray and Jones is that they are both used. No point in taking them if we are too afraid to trust them like EOS in 2007. Murray in particular looks like a breath of fresh air at 9. He does seem to take the wrong option on occasion but what young player doesnt. Only 1 way to learn. Give him games!

Declan Kidney said he was giving him a chance based on what he has shown in training. Fair play to the coaches for being open to that at this stage.

roddersm wrote:

valjester wrote:
I'm just watching the match again at the moment and for the try, wallace made the tackle but pallison's arms were free to offload for clerc, who went in through the gap between cullen and where wallace had been. I don't think you can really blame him. It was a good french try that was coming.

+ 1 it was a great offload and there was nothing wrong with the tackle. Someone should maybe have picked up Clerc's run but you can't blame Wallace for that.

I havnt re watched it, but my feeling was that wallace stretched for the tackle of pallison when the next defender (earls maybe?) should have stepped in rather than unnecessarily drifting. i might be wrong though. Good try by France regardless.

clivemcl wrote:

roddersm wrote:

valjester wrote:
I'm just watching the match again at the moment and for the try, wallace made the tackle but pallison's arms were free to offload for clerc, who went in through the gap between cullen and where wallace had been. I don't think you can really blame him. It was a good french try that was coming.

+ 1 it was a great offload and there was nothing wrong with the tackle. Someone should maybe have picked up Clerc's run but you can't blame Wallace for that.

I havnt re watched it, but my feeling was that wallace stretched for the tackle of pallison when the next defender (earls maybe?) should have stepped in rather than unnecessarily drifting. i might be wrong though. Good try by France regardless.

The next defender was fitz. Cullen was inside and should have taken clerc but he was blocked by mermoz.

Agree with Val that was exactly how the try happened

I was horrified by Buckley, he is so frustrating, did do some good counter rucking in all fairness but the guy should be a backrow not a front row at this stage just cos he is so bad at scrummaging

Best was poor IMO, lineout was bad (not all his fault) but was poor at slowing down op ball which is one of his best facets

SOB was weird I thought. Poor at carrying which is normally his strong suit too many knock ons and also didn't make that many yards, may have been targetted by the French, but on the ground was great, won at least 2 turnovers and a penalty at the ruck and was really good at slowing down opposition ball

Reddan I was very impressed by and Murray was excellent (albeit on front foot ball) I particularily like how he hardly moves from the base of the ruck, he seems to stay still as he passes no crabbing and no having to take a big step to pass. Very impressed and would take him to NZ I think.

Great game ROG, really good kicking and much improved defense. Got bounced once but generally hung on. Do think his passing could have been better at times, when he stayed deep (not all the time granted) he'd play flat passes but the French defense in the midfield had come up so Wallace and SOB in particular ended up getting man and ball almost immediately.

POC is an animal

Fitz, a little disappointing. Great offload Trimble and great work under the high ball too.

Kearney has the 15 jersey IMO. Jones should go to the RWC, would like to see him start next week

Earls not great in the centre re: vision and passing but his defense was phenomenal. Still not a 13 IMO.

For the next game.

Bowe?
Darcy?
Ferris?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:For the next game.

Bowe?
Darcy?
Ferris?

If D'arce is fit it will be the death knell for McFaddens chances imo. Saw a quote from McNaughton (cant remember where) saying that Bowe may not be in contention this week. Bad news if true but hopefully Ferris is back. I believe we have missed him massively

Standulstermen wrote:If D'arce is fit it will be the death knell for McFaddens chances imo. Saw a quote from McNaughton (cant remember where) saying that Bowe may not be in contention this week. Bad news if true but hopefully Ferris is back. I believe we have missed him massively

You serious about Bowe? Not good news - Trimble and Fitz have already played their two games so possibly Earls and McFadden on the wings this weekend? Although if McFadden has to play inside centre maybe throw Kearney on one wing? Messy stuff. You're right that D'arcy starting would end McFadden's chances though. He needs to have a great game at centre to make Kidney take him instead of Fitz. In an ideal world we could have our grand slam backrow for Saturday - hope Ferris makes it but he really needs a warm up game before we can take him imo. Flannery to start the match and play an hour and Felix Jones to get the whole game at full back for me too. Will O'Driscoll be back actually? I really think Earls needs to be played on the wing this Saturday so I hope he is!

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Reddan I was very impressed by and Murray was excellent (albeit on front foot ball) I particularily like how he hardly moves from the base of the ruck, he seems to stay still as he passes no crabbing and no having to take a big step to pass. Very impressed and would take him to NZ I think.
Fitz, a little disappointing.
Kearney has the 15 jersey IMO. Jones should go to the RWC, would like to see him start next week

Earls not great in the centre re: vision and passing but his defense was phenomenal. Still not a 13 IMO.

Do you agree me with that kearney will be back at 15 for leinster next season yet?

I was very impressed with reddan, I don't like him as a player and don't rate him particularly highly but he was superb. I rewatched the match today and I don't think he made a mistake. Murray will be Irish scrumhalf within a year imo, so long as he is trusted by munster.
Fitz has been really mixed in the two games and may be playing himself out of contention. He gave away two poor penalties, missed two tackles and was turnover twice. He still did some good things.

I disagree with you on earls, I though he was very assured, and on second viewing, in the second half especially he did a number of lovely passes. The pass to fitz was terrible, similiar to bod to mcfadden against italy, but the most annoying thing was he executed similiar passes running at full tilt in the second half with no difficulty. His passing and vision are fine and I think he could be great there with the right partner.

I should also apologise to ryan and ross who I was critical of yesterday. Ryan got through a huge amount of work. And ross was very good in the loose hitting rucks and cleaning up messy balls.

One of the funniest bits of the match was when france where mauling and ryan was trying to grab the ball, you could here poc screaming at him 'grab it, grab it' and then when it squirted loose 'f**k'

Also worryingly enough, it appears bowe is in danger of missing the english game meaning he will go into the world cup very undercooked. But on the brightside darcy,bod and ferris should be in contention for next week.

mrsuperclear wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:If D'arce is fit it will be the death knell for McFaddens chances imo. Saw a quote from McNaughton (cant remember where) saying that Bowe may not be in contention this week. Bad news if true but hopefully Ferris is back. I believe we have missed him massively

You serious about Bowe? Not good news - Trimble and Fitz have already played their two games so possibly Earls and McFadden on the wings this weekend? Although if McFadden has to play inside centre maybe throw Kearney on one wing? Messy stuff. You're right that D'arcy starting would end McFadden's chances though. He needs to have a great game at centre to make Kidney take him instead of Fitz. In an ideal world we could have our grand slam backrow for Saturday - hope Ferris makes it but he really needs a warm up game before we can take him imo. Flannery to start the match and play an hour and Felix Jones to get the whole game at full back for me too. Will O'Driscoll be back actually? I really think Earls needs to be played on the wing this Saturday so I hope he is!

Depending on whos fit I would say we will see a fairly strong team. McNaughton said that bowe is a doubt for the england game nevermind this game. I would say we are likely to see;

healy fla ross
poc doc
sob wally heaslip; with ferris on the bench
srcumhalf is difficult if murray gets he will be in the 30, boss or stringer must be selected or they're not going
sexton
darcy bod
earls mcfadden
jones, i think he will be selected and if he is I think it means hes going.

This is the last game befor the squad is announced. Ferris, darcy need a game. Darcy is lucky McFadden hasn't really done well. Jennings needs a game too realistically to stand a chance.

Kearney as Leinster 15?? I really amnt sure yet Bru.

Agree with you re Ryan, Ross and Fitz. Think Cullen did a lot of unseen work too

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:This is the last game befor the squad is announced. Ferris, darcy need a game. Darcy is lucky McFadden hasn't really done well. Jennings needs a game too realistically to stand a chance.

Kearney as Leinster 15?? I really amnt sure yet Bru.

Agree with you re Ryan, Ross and Fitz. Think Cullen did a lot of unseen work too

I'll be honest with you and say that cullen was poor, as was doc. Neither did much to help their case but cullen is unfortunate that he was replaced by poc because the difference was huge. The french would kill for a lock as good as poc then again most teams would. I forgot about jennings to be honest. I'm not really sure how to fit him in. His injury really f****d things up. Wally, sob, ferris and heaslip all need gametime. He'll probably get the connacht game unless they plan on leaving wally until the england game. I have to say I thing the injury may have screwed him over in terms of making the plane.

Yeah think Jennings may be out of the picture. Leaky has been playing better as of late but Jennings is quality and means sob is our onl other 7.

I thought sob did the duties of a 7 well yesterday and got in positions to carry but just didn't do the carrying that well.

Darcy really needs to play and play well to
Be included.

Didn't realise bowe was so serious.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Yeah think Jennings may be out of the picture. Leaky has been playing better as of late but Jennings is quality and means sob is our onl other 7.

I thought sob did the duties of a 7 well yesterday and got in positions to carry but just didn't do the carrying that well.

Darcy really needs to play and play well to
Be included.

Didn't realise bowe was so serious.

Leamy covers 8 so it means you could play last nights backrow against usa or russia to give ferris(if fit), wally and heaslip a rest.
I think that darcy will go no matter what. Kidney has his favourites and he will pick them. Imo that gives darcy, wallace and fitz an edge in the competition for places. He likes them and knows them so he will go with what he trusts. It will also help leamy, who has surprised me with how well he played. Jennings will miss out because of the injury robbing him of a chance to impress and because there are already two people who cover 7 going.
I'm not sure how serious bowe is but I was very surprised that mcnaughton said he is only hoping to be in contention for the england match because there had be no real indications beforehand that he was injured.

I was surprised by kidney's comments after the match. They were fairly honest and accurate for once. He usually just says nothing in a polite way but this time he went on about how the team have to improve and play for the 80minutes and how he was very disappointed with the first half and obviously the result.

I've been thinking about the teams I'd like to see next week. I'm assuming that Bowe, Kearney and Jennings will be unavailable and Ferris, D'Arcy and BOD will be available.

Versus Connacht;

1. Marcus Horan
2. Jerry Flannery
3. Tony Buckley
4. Donnacha Ryan
5. Mick O'Driscoll (c)
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Niall Ronan
8. Kevin McLaughlin
9. Tomas O'Leary
10. Paddy Wallace
11. Johne Murphy
12. Fergus McFadden
13. Darren Cave
14. Geordan Murphy
15. Gavin Duffy

16. Damien Varley
17. John Hayes
18. Mike McCarthy
19. Chris Henry
20. Isaac Boss
21. Ian Keatley
22. Fionn Carr

Versus France

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Donncha O'Callaghan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Sean O'Brien
7. David Wallace
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonathon Sexton
11. Luke Fitzgerald
12. Brian O'Driscoll (c)
13. Keith Earls
14. Andrew Trimble
15. Felix Jones

16. Sean Cronin
17. Tom Court
18. Leo Cullen
19. Denis Leamy
20. Eoin Reddan
21. Ronan O'Gara
22. Gordon D'Arcy

Really the Connacht game is about gametime for certain players. I think Jerry Flannery and Stephen Ferris need to play a whole game, basically. And come through it. If they do they'd both start against England. Similarly, Paddy Wallace had one of his better games for Ireland on Saturday but he needs to get some gametime at 10 in the warm-ups and this is the right moment to do that. Needs to do some place kicking in a match environment too. Time to give the BOD/Earls partnership a chance. See if it works. Jones and Murray should be rewarded for their form by being included in the 22 again this week. McFadden is a fair bit down the pecking order but it would be good to see what he can do at 12.

Notch wrote:I've been thinking about the teams I'd like to see next week. I'm assuming that Bowe, Kearney and Jennings will be unavailable and Ferris, D'Arcy and BOD will be available.

Versus Connacht;

1. Marcus Horan
2. Jerry Flannery
3. Tony Buckley
4. Donnacha Ryan
5. Mick O'Driscoll (c)
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Niall Ronan
8. Kevin McLaughlin
9. Tomas O'Leary
10. Paddy Wallace
11. Johne Murphy
12. Fergus McFadden
13. Darren Cave
14. Geordan Murphy
15. Gavin Duffy

16. Damien Varley
17. John Hayes
18. Mike McCarthy
19. Chris Henry
20. Isaac Boss
21. Ian Keatley
22. Fionn Carr

Versus France

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Donncha O'Callaghan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Sean O'Brien
7. David Wallace
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonathon Sexton
11. Luke Fitzgerald
12. Brian O'Driscoll (c)
13. Keith Earls
14. Andrew Trimble
15. Felix Jones

16. Sean Cronin
17. Tom Court
18. Leo Cullen
19. Denis Leamy
20. Eoin Reddan
21. Ronan O'Gara
22. Gordon D'Arcy

Really the Connacht game is about gametime for certain players. I think Jerry Flannery and Stephen Ferris need to play a whole game, basically. And come through it. If they do they'd both start against England. Similarly, Paddy Wallace had one of his better games for Ireland on Saturday but he needs to get some gametime at 10 in the warm-ups and this is the right moment to do that. Needs to do some place kicking in a match environment too. Time to give the BOD/Earls partnership a chance. See if it works. Jones and Murray should be rewarded for their form by being included in the 22 again this week. McFadden is a fair bit down the pecking order but it would be good to see what he can do at 12.

I'd pay quite a bit to see that team against france, if they clicked they could wreak havoc.

valjester wrote:I'd pay quite a bit to see that team against france, if they clicked they could wreak havoc.

Me too. Fortunately I have a ticket

Notch wrote:

valjester wrote:I'd pay quite a bit to see that team against france, if they clicked they could wreak havoc.

Me too. Fortunately I have a ticket

I'm in the wrong fecking country next week.

Bad news on Bowe if true*.

It will be interesting to see who Kidney selects next week. He said from the outset that noone was going to play more than 2.5 games.

Bearing in mind Paddy Wallace has played two full matches and will probably play some gametime at 10, maybe vs Connaght that probably rules him out.

Kearney, Fitzgerald and Trimble have played two on the bounce as well to you'd imagine they might be rested although that will probably depend on who is fit next week. I think Kidney will want to see Earls on the wing and possibly Fullback too so the centre patrnership will be interesting next week.

I think we might see something like this against France and England:

Vs France

15 Murphy/ Jones
14 McFadden
13 BOD
12 D'arcy
11 Earls
10 Sexton
9 TOL
8 Heaslip
7 Wallace
6 O'Brien
5 POC
4 Cullen
3 Hayes
2 Flannery
1 Court

Bench: Ross, Best, DOC, Ferris, Reddan, ROG, Jones

Vs England

15 Earls
14 Bowe
13 BOD
12 D'arcy
11 Trimble
10 ROG
9 Reddan
8 Heaslip
7 Wallace
6 Ferris
5 POC
4 DOC
3 Ross
2 Best
1 Healy

Bench: Hayes, Flannery, Ryan, SOB, TOL, Sexton, Murphy/Jones

* Edit: Just seen on the Irish times that Bowe isn't available next week.

Ireland need to start remembering how to score tries or they will not get out og their group. On a serious note though, if you play your strongest team agianst England I cannot see anything but an Irish victory.

hi guys been off holidaying for the last few weeks

From what i have seen so far i can add my two cents

1. The ulster fans are starting to look a little desperate with there wallace talk, i used to rememeber them as the most unbiased usually.
he has had two average games, hasnt been bad and hasnt been worth mentioning really. so after each game i dont see the reason for straight away defending him and bigging him up when nobody save for neill francis and george hook(who's opinions mean nout) are the only ones saying anything.

2. kidney is building very good strength in depth for us i feel and the squad looks more like it will be a squad rather then the last one where some people were just there cause you have to name a 30 man squad

3. i'm not calling people out just yet but i remember all the people who had written kearney off completly before a ball had been kicked

4. john hayes should be given a chance soon, we only have ross at TH
court is versitile and can do a job both sides but has been playing mostly LH this year and the other option doesnt bere mentioning

5. BOD's future replacement in my eyes wont come from Mcfadden or earls on what i have seen, It will have to be a young stud at one of the provinces

That is my opinion for anyone that cares

D24tress wrote:
1. The ulster fans are starting to look a little desperate with there wallace talk, i used to rememeber them as the most unbiased usually.
he has had two average games, hasnt been bad and hasnt been worth mentioning really. so after each game i dont see the reason for straight away defending him and bigging him up when nobody save for neill francis and george hook(who's opinions mean nout) are the only ones saying anything.

keith Wood was criticising his defence too in the 1st game. I don't think he was anything other than solid in both games so there is nothing to 'big up' in my view.

However when you hear people criticise his defence when he was joint top tackler and see him be singled out for 'continually taking the wrong option in an Irish Jersey' by the Irish media against France then you feel a need to defend him againt such blatant bias which obviously influences many fans views of him.

He hasn't done anything overly eye catching in either game but his performances certainly compare favourably with what any of the other 12 options have produced this year so I think it is gross double standards to single him out for criticism.

I thought Wallace had a very good game Saturday - not the worlds greatest but put in a good shift and was pick of the centres - Im not from Ulster and several neutrals said here yesterday they agreed re Wallace. Think you are being harsh.

Fully agree with you re Earls and McFadden didnt think they were the answer before and that has only been reinforced.

John Hayes will have to put his body on the line for Ireland again.

To be honest, I thought he was one of our best players on Saturday. Possibly our best back. Decision making was superb.

If you want to see the other side of the coin go and read some other forums and papers. You'd think he was public enemy number one.

I thought Trimble, Reddan and O'Gara played also played very well, but no-one is giving them stick that they don't deserve so there's no real need to reply, you see?

sorry i am not saying that they cannot defend him at all
but i'd like to think that most people know there rugby on here and there is alot of pre emptive praise been thrown at him following the two games.
i think the best thing for wallace is if he wasnt mentioned at all,

Another point and this is should be noted when talking about backs play.
We will not see many if any of the moves they will hope to do in the world cup, with how good video work and defences are these days i think that can be expected of most teams, Thats why we are not seeing some flowing moves off first phase ball.

I also think that ROG will play a massive part in the world cup, Dont think he should start against australia but i think he should defo start against italy and if we are going in against south africa he should prob start aswell,
well that is just based on saturday.

D24tress wrote:Thats why we are not seeing some flowing moves off first phase ball.

I thought it was due to the fact the quality of the ball we're getting from first phase is shamefully poor.

That also but we have not seen sexton rog or wallace really open up the passing and try some moves.

The best backs move we have had was when five players just passed the ball to the right until we had an overlap

I think Ireland are really really missing Stephen Ferris at the breakdown - a lot of the ball we are getting is poor and our backs arent able to execute cutting edge attacks as a result.

Artful_Dodger wrote:I think Ireland are really really missing Stephen Ferris at the breakdown - a lot of the ball we are getting is poor and our backs arent able to execute cutting edge attacks as a result.

Massively, we massively need our backrows to do more clearing out and Ferris is the master. I'm worried that even a backrow of O'Brien, Wallace and Heaslip will not do enough to clear the rucks.

Would love to see this team against France.

Healy – Flannery – Ross
Cullen – POC
Ferris – Heaslip – O’Brien
Murray – Sexton
Earls – Wallace – O'Driscoll– Bowe
Jones

Best – Court – O’Callaghan – Wallace – Reddan – ROG – Kearney

It’s a good mix of our known strong, our promising young and returning injured players. Someone will no doubt tell me that half the team are on the doctors table now though.

We're also missing ball carriers,until Heaslip was introduced on Saturday it was Healy and O'Brien (and O'Briens ball carrying was poor by his standards) on their own,no other forward made a run of any signifigance.

I think there is one point that everyone has missed and hasn't been discussed yet!

Murphy got gametime for Leicester at the weekend and still has to come into consideration.

Kearney and Jones will be prob the Fullbacks, but if Murphy gets gametime against France or England and impresses he to make make the plane.

Murphy is still a great fullback has played wing for Ireland before, and cover the back 3 positions better than anyone else.

I may consider taking an expericeed player like Murphy who can play full back very well and cover wing well enough, ahead for Fitzgerald who isn't playing great on the wing, and not as great at full back, or Mcfadden.

I still think that Murphy has to considered as a Squad player, who could make th eplane due to his versatility in the back 3, and may even be first choice fullback for certain games.

anyone else agree?

Mickado wrote:Would love to see this team against France.

Healy – Flannery – Ross
Cullen – POC
Ferris – Heaslip – O’Brien
Murray – Sexton
Earls – Wallace – O'Driscoll– Bowe
Jones

Best – Court – O’Callaghan – Wallace – Reddan – ROG – Kearney

It’s a good mix of our known strong, our promising young and returning injured players. Someone will no doubt tell me that half the team are on the doctors table now though.

Mickado (good day out yesterday - you had us worried!). Back on topic.

I think Leo Cullen has been very poor over the two games (particularly for the lack of leadership), if not being able to sort out the lineout. Unlike DOC, he does nothing around the pitch. Why would you have him in with POC, considering that POC is a decent enough lineout operator?

Mickado wrote:Would love to see this team against France.

Healy – Flannery – Ross
Cullen – POC
Ferris – Heaslip – O’Brien
Murray – Sexton
Earls – Wallace – O'Driscoll– Bowe
Jones

Best – Court – O’Callaghan – Wallace – Reddan – ROG – Kearney

It’s a good mix of our known strong, our promising young and returning injured players. Someone will no doubt tell me that half the team are on the doctors table now though.

Apparently Bowe is definitely out next week and is touch and go for the England game. I think Trimble is playing well at 14 though, but I would like to see Tommy back in the mix all the same.

Kingshu wrote:
I still think that Murphy has to considered as a Squad player, who could make th eplane due to his versatility in the back 3, and may even be first choice fullback for certain games.

anyone else agree?

Er yes and no. I think he will still be in consideration and you are right about his versatility although I don't think he was the pace anymore to play wing, however Kearney isn't great on the wing.

I'm 100% certain Kearney will go and I think Jones might too, so Murphy will need to play pretty well to get back in the mix.

Sin, yeah the crystals of hope were forming in my heart at half time, we exceeded my expectations (and that of most hurling people!) so I’m proud of how we played. Boland was immense!

I went for Cullen purely because I’d like to see him play with POC again. he was poor and had a hand in the bad lineout, but POC and DOC are nailed on starters in the WC, I would just like to see the two lineout callers start together, we’ve only seen it a handful of times and I recall our defensive lineout was excellent. It probably won’t happen as Cullen has already started 2 games.

Trimble has been going great and wouldn’t consider him “dropped” from my team, he’s already on the plane as far as I’m concerned, but if Bowe was back he’d need the gametime more. If Bowe is out then Trimble to start at 14 again.

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:Would love to see this team against France.

Healy – Flannery – Ross
Cullen – POC
Ferris – Heaslip – O’Brien
Murray – Sexton
Earls – Wallace – O'Driscoll– Bowe
Jones

Best – Court – O’Callaghan – Wallace – Reddan – ROG – Kearney

It’s a good mix of our known strong, our promising young and returning injured players. Someone will no doubt tell me that half the team are on the doctors table now though.

Mickado (good day out yesterday - you had us worried!). Back on topic.

I think Leo Cullen has been very poor over the two games (particularly for the lack of leadership), if not being able to sort out the lineout. Unlike DOC, he does nothing around the pitch. Why would you have him in with POC, considering that POC is a decent enough lineout operator?

I thought he was good in the first game
Lineout was a problem in the second and its fair to say that POC has come back in fine form

Also his leadership cannot be questioned however its hard to lead a team playing together for the first time. Nobody stepped up at all to offer some leadership in the first half on saturday.
However when o'connell and heislip came on we saw two leaders

On a side note I have never seen healy or heislip look so lean
same to an extent with SOB

D24tress wrote:

5. BOD's future replacement in my eyes wont come from Mcfadden or earls on what i have seen, It will have to be a young stud at one of the provinces

That is my opinion for anyone that cares

I think its a bit soon to be writing either off just yet, bearing in mind that it was their a) first game of the season with b) unfamiliar partners particularly when up against a the French centre partnership which is France's version of BOD & D'Arcy as they play together for Perpignam.

I think you have to think back to BOD's early days (he was a strike runner back then) to think of what kind of replacement you might get now.

I though Cullen was excellent against Scotland actually but he has to take a share of the flack for the lineout on Saturday. That said perhaps the worst line out call was the overthrow at the tail at the end by Flannery and POC so you can't just point the finger at Best and Cullen (although both were poor).

I though DOC too was found wanting on Saturday too and I'd like to see Cullen and POC get some gametime together.

I asked the same question last week about what Cullen does? From what I see he hangs around the side of rucks, mostly offside, but fairplay gets away with it. Against Scotland, he was one of the lowest tacklers with 5 - against France he made 4 (DOC made 8 which was the highest no of tackles made and DR made 8 as well).

For the French lineout, he had every advantage he had his leinster props Healy & Ross (though I think Ross is poor at lifting anyway).

Best's throwing was poor, but that could also be put down to a lack of confidence in who is is throwing to.

Rodders - Flannery just overthrew the ball. The only thing you could blame POC for was being over confident in Flannery being able to hit the back of the lineout.

Best's throwing was poor, but that could also be put down to a lack of confidence in who is is throwing to.

Rodders - Flannery just overthrew the ball. The only thing you could blame POC for was being over confident in Flannery being able to hit the back of the lineout.

Can you seriously not see anything hypocritical about that post?

Sin E you dont half mix up some nonsense with some sense -

You are now speculating that Best doesn't trust Cullens jumping so this affected his confidence, which in turn caused his darts to mis-fire.
And
Ross is a poor lifter.

You just made both those up.


But I agree Cullen was poor on Saturday both at line out time and in the loose.

Sin é wrote:I asked the same question last week about what Cullen does? From what I see he hangs around the side of rucks, mostly offside, but fairplay gets away with it. Against Scotland, he was one of the lowest tacklers with 5 - against France he made 4 (DOC made 8 which was the highest no of tackles made and DR made 8 as well).

For the French lineout, he had every advantage he had his leinster props Healy & Ross (though I think Ross is poor at lifting anyway).

Best's throwing was poor, but that could also be put down to a lack of confidence in who is is throwing to.

Rodders - Flannery just overthrew the ball. The only thing you could blame POC for was being over confident in Flannery being able to hit the back of the lineout.

Sin I think Cullen is good player. He brings a calm authority to the game and works hard in the rucks. Generally he reads the game well. Obviously he doesn't get around the pitch as much as DOC but it's horses for courses I suppose. Remeber with the tackle count that Cullen didn't play the full match.

You might have a point on the lifters. I'm not singleing out Flannery and POC (who was awesome) but there seems to be a chronic problem with our lineout that seems to persist regardless of who is throwing and jumping. I don't understand why we don't compete on the opposition throws either.

I'm not absolving Best either. He was pretty poor and there was at least 1 crooked throw in there but quite a few times he hit his jumper but the French had read it and disrupted. The whole thing was a shambles and you have to wonder how critical Hayes, O'Kelly and Easterbuy were to our lineout over the years because it's been in decline for a while now.

Standulstermen wrote:

20. Murray- Looks sharp. I would like him to go to the RWC but only if he isnt going to sit on his derriere for the tournament.

I think that makes no sense. You're really saying Murray should ahead of Boss and Stringer? Stringer I can handle but Boss has been closing out/winning games in the white hot heat of the European Cup all last season? Unless you mean not taking TO'L?

..And the other point I was making was that Cullen is getting a grilling for his line out calls and leadership but that was a poor call by POC to go to the back of the lineout on the last play of the game. What didn't he just go to the front and secure possession?

Add that to the descision to go for the posts rather than the lineout and thats two poor calls which could have cost us a win or draw. It's seems like double standards to criticise Cullen's leadership and not POC's however impressive POC's individual performance was.

I think Cullen's acclaim as a leader is a bit overstated. It was Sexton who stepped up for the Heineken final, not Cullen for instance. The previous win, I think it was Rocky Elsom. And then of course, BOD is usually around. (I don't rate Heislip as a leader - not after the incident in New Zealand when he couldn't keep his cool).

I think he is more annoying at rucks than actually doing anything. He doesn't carry at all like POC does. he had one good game against France in the lineout 2 years ago (when the French were not bothered). Since then, London Irish showed up Leinster's lineout (the HCup game in the RDS).

roddersm wrote:..And the other point I was making was that Cullen is getting a grilling for his line out calls and leadership but that was a poor call by POC to go to the back of the lineout on the last play of the game. What didn't he just go to the front and secure possession?

Add that to the descision to go for the posts rather than the lineout and thats two poor calls which could have cost us a win or draw. It's seems like double standards to criticise Cullen's leadership and not POC's however impressive POC's individual performance was.

The last call was a poor decision. But the other one wasn't .... very shaky lineout and ROG's kicking up to then was excellent.

EDIT: I don't think decision making and leadership is the same thing. POC inspired everyone to lift their game a bit when he came on.