Ireland vs France, 20th August, AVIVA Stadium

First topic message reminder :

Marc Lievremont has named his side to face Ireland on Saturday, making 13 changes from the team that won in Bordeaux. Meanwhile, Declan Kidney has brought back several experienced players including O'Connell, David Wallace, Heaslip, O'Driscoll and D'Arcy as Ireland's preparations step up a gear. Special mention for Felix Jones, making his first start for Ireland, who looks well positioned to be our World Cup bolter should he grasp this massive opportunity.

The game will be held in the AVIVA Stadium on Saturday the 20th August, Kick-off is at 5pm.

IRELAND Team and Replacements

15 - Felix Jones (Shannon/ Munster)
14 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) Captain
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)

1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
6 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:
16 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon/ Munster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht)
19 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/ Leinster)

FRANCE Team & Replacements:

15 - Cédric Heymans (Toulouse)
14 - Maxime Médard (Toulouse)
13 - Aurélien Rougerie (Clermont Auvergne)
12 - Fabrice Estebanez (Brive)
11 - Alexis Palisson (Toulon)
10 - David Skrela (Toulouse)
9 - Morgan Parra (Clermont Auvergne)

1 - Jean-Baptiste Poux (Toulouse)
2 - Dimitri Szarzewski (Stade Francais)
3 - Nicolas Mas (Perpignan)
4 - Pascal Papé (Stade Francais)
5 - Lionel Nallet (Racing Metro 92) (capt)
6 - Fulgence Ouedraogo (Montpellier)
7 - Louis Picamoles (Toulouse)
8 - Julien Bonnaire (Clermont Auvergne)

Replacements:

16 - Guilhem Guirado (Perpignan)
17 - Fabien Barcella (Biarritz Olympique)
18 - Julien Pierre (Clermont Auvergne)
19 - Raphaël Lakafia (Biarritz Olympique)
20 - Dimitri Yachvili (Biarritz Olympique)
21 - Francois Trinh-Duc (Montpellier)
22 - Vincent Clerc (Toulouse)

Skrela is definitely slower and less inventive than trinh-duc so thats a minus vs last week team (although skrela palyed 10 for most of the game).

the real potential weak-link is the rather new centre partership experiment with one uncapped player (estebanez although I rate him quite a lot specially defensively) and one returning from injury (rougerie). If it works though, it could be quite...brutal.

backrow is in my mind as good as the one from last week (bonnaire has been better than harinordoquy last season, picamoles ahead of lakafia and ouedrago is a very good ball carrier) and front 5 a bit better given there is no marconnet...

Hmmm wouldn't say Dupuy is better than yachvilli. The others though fair enough

red_stag wrote:Didn't see the Duffy twice

No one's ever seen him once!

Anyway, I don't disagree with the team against Connacht, but there are so many possible players in that team who are not even in the extended squad, and most of those that are have next to zero chance of making it to NZ. I'm not convinced playing Connacht is a smart idea.

If we needed 5 games to get everyone match fit, then a match on Thursday followed by a match on Saturday always meant we'd never use this game properly. We have effectively only 4 pre-RWC matches.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
You have Duffy twice too.

Jeesus having Duffy once is bad enough....

I wonder if McFadden will start on the wing with Bowe out. Trimble and Fitzgerald have both played two games but maybe Trimble was subbed last week to keep him fresh to play this week too?

I think Geordan Murphy will feature this week so if McFadden doesn't start on the wing then I don't think he'll play as I'd imagine he'll play in the centre against Connacht.

Trimble or McFadden will prob start ahead of Bowe with the other on the bench and Murphy fb for the Connacht game. Probably trade Spence for Cave. Ferris should be in there somewhere. Carr or J.Murphy for Horgan

Makes sense having McF in the France game 22 somewhere so Darcy can be taken off when he runs out of gas and he will.
put him on the wing for Bowe or on the bench ready to come on with Murphy or Trimble at 14

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Hmmm wouldn't say Dupuy is better than yachvilli. The others though fair enough

I think they are of a very similiar standard but that dupuy is better suited to the game that france ought to be trying to play. When I see yachvilli and try in a side my heart sinks as you just know that, like at biarritz, they are going to kick a load of ball. I much prefer when france run in and dupuy is better for this style of rugby. Parra finished the season in terrible form and his pass is very slow. The worse thing about all this is that in saying that his pass is still better than any Irish scrumhalf and I'd take any of them for Ireland in a second.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Trimble or McFadden will prob start ahead of Bowe with the other on the bench and Murphy fb for the Connacht game. Probably trade Spence for Cave. Ferris should be in there somewhere. Carr or J.Murphy for Horgan

Makes sense having McF in the France game 22 somewhere so Darcy can be taken off when he runs out of gas and he will.
put him on the wing for Bowe or on the bench ready to come on with Murphy or Trimble at 14

I don't think Trimble will play another full game. I think Murphy might bench for this game and start against England.

Is Cave, J.Murphy, Horgan and Carr even in the squad? I'd imagine no one will play in either game who aren't in WC consideration but the Connacht game will be the 2nd XV/Squad players and guys who are more on injury standby.

horgan was in my eyes the best winger in ireland throughout the year unfortunately his injuries seem to have coincided with international games pretty sure he is injured now

My two 22's

Healy-Fla-Ross
Poc-Doc
Sob-Heaslip-Wallace
Reddan-Sexton
Darcy-Bod
Earls-Jones-McF

Court, Best, McCarthy, Ferris, Murray, ROG, Trimble

and against Connacht....

Horan-Cronin-Hayes
Ryan-MOD
McL-Leamy-Jennings
TOL-Wallace
J.Murphy-Cave
Carr-Murphy-Fitzgerald

Buckley, Varley, Toner, Ronan, Boss, Kealtey, Duffy

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:and against Connacht....

Horan-Cronin-Hayes
Ryan-MOD
McL-Leamy-Jennings
TOL-Wallace
J.Murphy-Cave
Carr-Murphy-Fitzgerald

Buckley, Varley, Toner, Ronan, Boss, Kealtey, Duffy

You kidding? Connacht would give them such a kicking!

greybeard wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:and against Connacht....

Horan-Cronin-Hayes
Ryan-MOD
McL-Leamy-Jennings
TOL-Wallace
J.Murphy-Cave
Carr-Murphy-Fitzgerald

Buckley, Varley, Toner, Ronan, Boss, Kealtey, Duffy

You kidding? Connacht would give them such a kicking!

Thats a good point, the connacht lads will be going out hell for leather for this game anyway no need to stick a few old friends in there way aswell

Also, I don't see the point of having Duffy on the bench when he could line out for Connacht and get a full game instead of 20 minutes or so.

Having said that, he was in the Connacht team to play Exeter last week, but pulled out with an injury. Don't know if it's likely to keep him out for this week.

Well who would you put in there instead?

Ferris will need to start a game somewhere. Against France or England?

Spence i think has recovered from injury so could be an option against Connacht. More likely to be Cave though

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Well who would you put in there instead?

Please see my post above. I wouldn't have the match in the first place. Players coming back from injury should be lining out with their provinces, who are all playing as well.

red_stag wrote:I'd reckon for Ireland v France:
14 Bowe

Bowe ain't fit according to McNaugton. Next week (England, after squad announced) at earliest he said.

Standulstermen wrote:Ferris will need to start a game somewhere. Against France or England?

I would say it depends on his injury. If there are doubts about him then I'd imagine he'll be introduced from the bench.

The backrow will be interesting because Wallace, Ferris and Jennings have yet to play and Heaslip has only played 30min so all of them need gametime.

.

If he doesnt break down he should be in contention this weekend (according to McNaughton) so i think i would pick him this week and give SOB the England game

ferris is in contention for this week. i would image he will play against connacht and England

caoimhincentre wrote:ferris is in contention for this week. i would image he will play against connacht and England

I doubt that very much. I say he'll play 20 -25 min against France then 60 min against England.

O'Brien will maybe play 60min at 6 against France and then 20min at 7 or 8 against France and then come of the bench against England.

I doubt any of them will play against Connacht.

Would you take Bowe, B'OD, D'Arcy and Ferris all without meaningful game time?

I agree , Ferris should come on for 20 against France then play the first 60 against England.

If he got injured in a nothing warm up against Connacht I would go berserk.

Rods i guess we'll. but you never know who has inside info

caoimhincentre wrote:Rods i guess we'll. but you never know who has inside info

Tell me what you know!!!

Ballroomhero. It looks like Bowe might not feature in the warm ups but everyone else will get gametime.

Is Tuohy still injured too?

roddersm wrote:

caoimhincentre wrote:Rods i guess we'll. but you never know who has inside info

Tell me what you know!!!

Ballroomhero. It looks like Bowe might not feature in the warm ups but everyone else will get gametime.

Good man yourself, ta!

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Is Tuohy still injured too?

Don't think Tuohy is injured he just didn't make the squad.

It's a pity because he was in good form up until he got injured but he didn't quite reach top form again before the season ended.

Artful_Dodger wrote:I agree , Ferris should come on for 20 against France then play the first 60 against England.

If he got injured in a nothing warm up against Connacht I would go berserk.

Surely you'd go berserk regardless of the opposition?

Rodders i know nothing.

I hate to be wrong.

greybeard wrote:
Surely you'd go berserk regardless of the opposition?

Not really the same though is it? The Connacht game isn't a test match. It's just a last opportunity to experiment and keep the fringe players fit. If Ferris is in contention this week I don't see why you would risk him against Connacht as we'll want him against England too.

Anyone in genuine contention for the 1st XV, who hasn't played much so far, needs to play against France and England, unless they are still injured of course.

roddersm wrote:Not really the same though is it?

I'd say if any player got an injury that ruled them out of the RWC they wouldn't care about the circumstances. Saying the injury came against France or England would be no comfort.

Tuohy missed Ulsters first pre-season game through injury, he's ben out for a while.

Stag I don't understand what we learn playing Best again Connacht? He will definitely be in the 22. I would go with Flannery and Best as our two hookers for the last tow games. Give them a game each

Think Fla starting would be a huge boost just so we know he can get through 60 mins or so.

Notch wrote:Stag I don't understand what we learn playing Best again Connacht? He will definitely be in the 22. I would go with Flannery and Best as our two hookers for the last tow games. Give them a game each

I agree Notch and they flipping need game too. Best can't throw and Flannery can't run!

I think Flannery might start against France and Best against England.

Rodders-

I'd be pretty ok with that scenario.

Notch wrote:Stag I don't understand what we learn playing Best again Connacht? He will definitely be in the 22. I would go with Flannery and Best as our two hookers for the last tow games. Give them a game each

Its not about learning. Its about game time. Flannery and Cronin play against France, Best and Varley plays against Connacht. Then Best and Flannery against England. Best, Flannery and Cronin all travel.

Why even bother with Varley if he's no in the training squad?

Flannery and Best start a match each, Cronin on the bench for both. Everyone gets 50-60 minutes each.

I am worried about Ferris. Cant see him making the plane. If he does, he will not be starting vs the big boys. He has played too little.

And, no, its not the same situation as Bowe.

Bowe is a winger and doesnt have a long term injury.

red_stag wrote:
Its not about learning. Its about game time. Flannery and Cronin play against France, Best and Varley plays against Connacht. Then Best and Flannery against England. Best, Flannery and Cronin all travel.

Why the flip would we play Varley? Is he even in the squad?

There's no debate as to who the Hookers will be so it's just about getting them game time. Until Flannery plays a full match Best needs to be considered starting hooker and on the basis of last week he needs game time.

Throwing into Cullen, MOD or Ryan isn't going to sort out our lineout so it's vital that both Best and Flannery get gametime with the 1st choice jumpers and lifters.

Varley was named in the training squad. As for "bothering" with him, I'm suggesting he be backup against Connacht.

roddersm wrote: Until Flannery plays a full match Best needs to be considered starting hooker and on the basis of last week he needs game time.

Yes and I would start Flannery against France, Best against Connacht.

Fair enough, I had forgotten Varley was in the training squad.

But I'd play Best against France and Fla against Connacht, a full game against Connacht isn't going to be as demanding as a full game against France and, while I don't think he should be wrapped in cotton wool, I think he'd benefit from that more.

red_stag wrote:
Yes and I would start Flannery against France, Best against Connacht.

Stag Best needs to start another full game with the 1st choice pack. Starting him against Connacht is a waste of time. I'd imagine Flannery and Best will rotate and do 60/20 in the last two test matches.

Besides Cronin needs more game time too so is bound to start against Connacht.

Boyne Ferris will be playing at the weekend so lets not write him off yet eh?

roddersm wrote:
Stag Best needs to start another full game with the 1st choice pack. Starting him against Connacht is a waste of time.

Why? I've seen what he can do with 1st choice pack. He had 5 games with them in 6 Nations and another last week. He's currently our first choice. I'd rather get Flannery back up to speed with the team and get Best some game time against the West Men.

Yeah i dont get the negativity regarding Ferris. By all accounts McNaughtons recent report was very positive that he would be in consideration this weekend. If he can get 20mins and then 60mins (although Caoimhin centres idea of a start against Connacht and England has merit) then he will travel. Couple that with the US game and IF he makes it through injury free then he will be in contention for the Australia game.

That being said our first choice backrow at present is SOB, Wally and Heaslip. Ferris has to prove 1st fitness and then form. If he does both i cant see Kidney not selecting him. If he doesnt prove both then its our current backrow

red_stag wrote:Why? I've seen what he can do with 1st choice pack. He had 5 games with them in 6 Nations and another last week.

Because the lineout was a shambles against France and Best has only played 10 min with POC, DOC, Ross etc. which isn't enough to get our set piece functioning.

If Flannery is fit enough he may leapfrog Best in the next few games but Best needs to be ready to play the big games too because regardless of who is 1st choice both will feature a fair bit.

Hang on, folks. It's not as if the last game is approaching. There is always the England game afterwards.

Maybe Cronin against Connacht to see if he can finally show some skils, Best and Flannery get the France and England starts? Although Cronin has had so many chances now he's in danger of becoming the next Buckley.

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:
Stag Best needs to start another full game with the 1st choice pack. Starting him against Connacht is a waste of time.

Why? I've seen what he can do with 1st choice pack. He had 5 games with them in 6 Nations and another last week. He's currently our first choice. I'd rather get Flannery back up to speed with the team and get Best some game time against the West Men.

He looked like he needs gametime at test level intensity. Obviously if he plays in the Connacht game he can play versus England again, but I'd like to see him start one and come off the bench in one. Same with Flannery. They both need to get up to speed.

red_stag wrote:

Notch wrote:Stag I don't understand what we learn playing Best again Connacht? He will definitely be in the 22. I would go with Flannery and Best as our two hookers for the last tow games. Give them a game each

Its not about learning. Its about game time. Flannery and Cronin play against France, Best and Varley plays against Connacht. Then Best and Flannery against England. Best, Flannery and Cronin all travel.

I'm afraid it is about learning. It shouldn't be, but it is. Whats going wrong with our lineout and how to fix it is what I'd like to learn... them getting time together is important, won't help is Best is off practicing with the pack for the Connacht team this week. That unit obviously needs more time together on the pitch.

At this stage I think our lineout is going to cost us dearly at the World Cup. A few years ago we could have used it to starve Australia of possession. We won't be able to do that now unless it improves dramatically. And we're gonna come off second best if we get into a running rugby contest with them.

I'm sorry but I have no trust in our lineout anymore and I'm desperately looking for Flannery's throwing to improve it. If we lose to Australia we'll be playing South Africa in the quarters. We know what happened to Rory Best and the lineout last time we played them. I see no evidence that it would be any different this time.

I want Flannery to be our starting Hooker. So I want him to get as much game time as possible to prove he's up to it.