What Ireland need to learn from the Connacht game

First topic message reminder :

Starting from the front and heading back I thought it apt to go and see what bits of information we can/need to learn from the game in Donnybrook tonight as far as I am aware is not being televised.

We need to see if Buckley can play LH and play well.
He has been very disappointing over the first two tests. Very poor scrimmaging and has not been in the loose what we know he can be. Seems to be in a shoot out with Hayes for the fourth prop spot and I think it may just come down to this final game to decide it. Buckley can be exceptional in the loose as seen down south last summer and can scrum as seen in the Autumn against Argentina but can he do it regularly?

We need Cullen to up his performance and see what else Ryan can do.
McCarthy on the bench on Saturday is telling. DK obviously believes that McCarthy and Ryan are quite close standard wise. Ryan has had two tests and now McCarthy will, again it seems like a straight shoot out between the two. Cullen also needs to prove he can up his game, he has been quite ineffective over the last two tests and needs to up the anti quite a bit.

We need to learn whether Jennings can even be considered.
Jennings has played exceptionally well for Leinster this year but injury has ruled him out of all the warm ups thus far. With Ferris back and firing (well fit enough to put on the bench) and Leamy doing quite well so far, we need to see if Jennings can produce something no other backrower can. He is unique in style but can he compete at the highest level (the Connacht game not being the highest level) but again appears a shoot out between Leamy and Jennings with Leamy ahead.

We need to know who will be our 3rd scrumhalf.
Boss vs Murray with Stringer seemingly left out in the cold. Boss has had a good season with Leinster providing a quicker service than before but also a fiery physicality. Murray has had a great run in to the close of the season. Seems to have all the skills needed, appears cool headed and unphased by the big occasions. Best passer of the 4 scrumhalves remaining, good tackler, best boxkicker, good decision making.

We need to double check Wallace can play 10.
It’s been a while since Wallace wore the 10 jersey in green. He won’t be tested too much but we need to see he can do it. Even with Keatley and Mcfadden in the team I’d like Wallace to kick the goals. Needs to show us that he can attack the line hard and can also control the game both in equal measure and where necessary.

We need to see McFadden and Murphy do something special.
As such neither seem to be going to the RWC, as such neither deserve too. They need to show us something that would make DK not want to bring Fitzgerald or Jones. These two seem to be the desperadoes of the group.

My wishlist:
Murray to have a stormer and play the whole second half.
Cullen to up his game.
Jennings to put pressure on Leamy.
Wallace to show us he can control a game.

Trimble is not one dimensional. He has great hands,magnificent defence and as we saw last week is solid under the high ball. His form this year has been better than Bowe.

Yeah just like I did with Sexton 3 years ago Thom...
Jennings is our 7 Jesus, T. Watch Heaslip & SOB play better than they have ever played before for Ireland tomorrow. He is that missing piece of the jigsaw for us to take our game to the next level. And in the manner in which we now want to play. Just my know-it-all opinion like. Leamy? Dont make me laugh.

Wait till tomorrow comes. We'll talk again then. End of Sermon.

Leinster have Jesus and BOD no wonder they one the HC. Also nobody wants Leamy near the team,I hope Jenno plays well tomorrow I don't think he will start ahead of Wally if he goes but it would be great to have another top class backrow in our squad.

More one dimesional in comparison to Bowe for me means Trimble is most likely to run at or through an opponent, I'm well aware of his good defensive attributes and his ability under a high ball. For me Bowe is the cerebral winger, ghost like and a natural finisher. The "more one dimesional" was only in comparison to Bowe's array of skills and should not be interpreted as Trimble is "one dimensional". IMO defences are generally tight these days and for me Bowe is more likely to unlock them than Trimble. Bowe for me is also more of a team player and will look to offload whereas I think Trimble is more of a head down and way to go winger. We are of course splitting hairs here with regards to two very good wingers.

Ruby,
Fair enough. Suffice it to say Id have them both pencilled in to start with Kearney. Earls in at 22. No Leinster bias. Fitzgerald has not done enough and is not as effective as those 2 now. Used be. Plus the fact that they are both better players imo.

You enjoy a quiet one in Amsterdam Mr Gibson and I'll keep an eye on your boys against France and England

I dont think we can question Bowe is a better play now than he was when he left Ulster. Im not so sure i would give the ospreys credit for that though. He realised his potential which he was showing the season before.

when Trimble came through he was being described as the best thing since Mike Gibson (cant remember where that was from but that quote is true). He has been mishandled but i would agree that he is the form Irish winger and deserves his start. I dont think he will get in the big games. I think Kidney will go with Kearney, Earls and Bowe (although i would dearly love to see Earls, Trimble and Bowe). Trimble is now (imo) an out and out winger with the pace, physicality and noues to pick his lines. He is definately more than just physical. His set up for kearneys break against france was fantastic. He took the ball at his 22 and turned inside, stepped a defender, accepted the tackle on his terms and got in a perfect offload.

His offloading is top quality imo but he is judicious when throwing it now. The offload he made to Kyriacou last year against Connacht was ludicrous but i think shows he now knows when to throw it and when to tke the tackle

BOD is the only player who ever matched Michael Cameron Gibson. We have no one even in their vicinity coming through. Once every 30 years...

Having said that.. want Andrew to burn France tomorrow. They are going down by 15.

Believe.

I think Jennings should go to the RWC, and I hope we see a great game from him and his Leinster colleagues tomorrow.

All in all though, there's very little question over who our best four backrows are.

There's a question of tactics; the way Ireland approach the breakdown, the balance of the pack, is very different. Should we take a leaf out of Leinsters book? Maybe. It's always good to be open to new ideas but the backrow systems we've used have worked exceptionally well. We've consistently won turnovers in games and contested the breakdown without a 'natural 7'. So why change?

The reason why is David Wallace- or rather, his potential absence. David Wallace is a magnificent player for us because he holds everything together. He plays like a 6, but he does all the work of a 7. We haven't put out a backrow that looks balanced without him since Easterby/Quinlan had their day.

So if Wallace doesn't travel, we need Jennings. I'm not going to lie to save the die-hard Leinsturr boys feelings; going from Wallace to Jenno is a big step down in my view. But trying to shoehorn Leamy in there won't work. I know who I would give the last backrow spot on the plane to.

By the by, I think Ferris can play 7 for us. The way he contests the breakdown is very different to a traditional 'fetcher' but he is very effective in slowing ball down and making a nuisance of himself, and his clearing out and counter-rucking is excellent. I would not have a problem if he got gametime at 7. He's intelligent enough to make it work.

No, that wouldn't worry me. The fact he's no gametime and a knee made of glass would. I hope and pray he comes through this match alright.

Amen Gibbo

Its another and very popular school of thought Notch and well put. We dont know if Jenno is a big step down internationally. He has been a better player than Wally provincially for nigh on 3 years now. One thing I am sure of is, SOB is not, and never will be at Jennings level at 7. He is wasted there. That has been proven time and time again.

1F at 7? Dont think so. Not fast enough to the breakdown. Great with ball in hand and a powerful counter-rucker. Just not nimble enough for a top-class Openside. Wally is a World Class ball carrier and still a phenomenal athlete at 35. But hes not in the same mould as Pocock, McCaw or even Warburton now. Jennings is the only player we have to combat them at their specialist level. To be perfectly honest... Our backrow to beat Oz... and Oz alone should be:

6. Ferris
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip.

SOB as impact.

It has everything in its armoury to negate and dominate Pocock, Elsom, Palu, et al
1F essential in clearing out the rucks. Heaslip and he to carry. But who is going to win and secure the ball for them in the 1st place?. I just read Brent Pope saying the same thing on Jennings. Alluded to Warburton and Pocock proving last weekend that a natural 7 is essential in the New Game vs the lumbering, ball-carrying backrows of SA and England. Ben Kay prompted him. Said Jennings was the best 7 he ever played with. He may have some experience in this. He played with Back for Leicester. As did Jenno. And won a RWC.

In saying all that, Jenno is playing his first minute of rugby v France tomorrow, since breaking his arm in the ML Final. Where he was the best player on the field. Along with Wally as it happens. Jennings graphically helped turn the tide in the last HC Final too.Same in the 2009 Final. The evidence is compelling. His task is huge in trying to convince Kidney (EOS was the same) -to change a mindset that has held Ireland back for years, in a game vs a strong French backrow. So, no pressure then Shane.

I have no problem with Wally playing for Ireland as 1st choice 7. I just think that we could do with Jennings, as another unique backrow option, to actually help us progress to a SF for the 1st time in our history. To do that, we must be beat Oz. With SOB and Heaslip alongside him tomorrow, he will fit in seemlesly to the unit. Leamy brings nothing new to the table now. other than just pure average, backup at 6(not needed) and 8. Jennings could do it as well as him now. Has done at 6. Leamy has not been the same player he once was after his last injury. But history tells us that Kidney may pick him no matter what happens tomorrow. His tactical blind-side, imo.

jennings did well in the Magners final securing lots of turnover ball, but so did the Munster backrow of D Ryan, D Wallace & Coughlan.

As for Jenning's poor performance in green because of who he was with - Leamy has had to put up with similar issues in any games he started and I don't see him getting any credit for that. Against Scotland it was Mike McCarthy, Niall Ronan & Leamy at 8 that started and Kevin McLaughlin who came on. Against France it was D Ryan, SOB & Leamy at 8 again and Heaslip came on for him, not to mention what the tight 5 were like.

Even going back to the last time Leamy started for Ireland at 6 against Scotland in the 6Ns with SOB at 8 (who was dominated by Parisse at 8), Jennings was the only player who didn't get any gametime.

The only way he will go to the world cup is if David Wallace isn't fit to go and we may give up on doing well if that is the case.

Jennings got 50 mins against the ABs (Heaslip's red card incident game) when he came on for John Muldoon when he broke his leg. In the 30 mins that Muldoon was on, he made 7 tackles, in the 50 mins that jennings was on he made 2 and Wally made 8 (DOC & Cronin really worked hard on the defense that day).

Gibson wrote:Its another and very popular school of thought Notch and well put. To be perfectly honest... Our backrow to beat Oz... and Oz alone is:

6. Ferris
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip.

SOB as impact.

It has everything in its armoury to negate and dominate Pocock, Elsom, Palu, et al
1F essential in clearing out the rucks. Heaslip and he to carry. But who is going to win and secure the ball for them in the 1st place? You get ONE guess... I just read Brent Pope saying the same thing. Wish he'd mind his own business. Said that Warburton and Pocock proved last weekend that a natural 7 is essential in the New Game. Ben Kay prompted him. Said Jennings was the best 7 he ever played with. What would he know anyway?

Sorry, Gibbo, Brent Pope is hopelessly biased when it comes to St. Mary's players. He made me laugh at the Guinness Area thingy in Kiely's the other night when he was asked who the starting half-backs should be and he said they should be Sexton & Reddan by reason of keep the provincial half-backs together (even though they haven't played together) then he had to backtrack a bit and say that Ronan O'Gara was magnificent against France.

Do you have a link to the Ben Kay quote - thats a big claim considering he played with two world cup winning 7s (Back & Moody).

Sin,
http://www.herald.ie/sport/rugby/brent-pope-jennings-is-crucial-to-world-cup-ambition-2853174.html

OK, ONE of the best. Poetic licence... And Im glad that you are one the most unbiased Munster fans Ive ever come across. Balance. Its all about the balance...

I want one thing to happen tomorrow. Ireland to beat France and beat them well.

And... Sexton and Reddan play together every week. Also played for Ireland together. Best pairing to play the open game we need to play if we want to progress that is. Have to admit, Im liking Murray. A lot.

Too many question marks in the Ireland team I feel. Playing Connacht is merely a training run and not the type of hit out they need less than 3 weeks before the World Cup. Doesn't pose the right questions nor answer anything of significant value.

Having said that - I really hope you win against France tonight.

For Stand:
Dont like Neil Francis, hes a diick. But I just love this P.S. from his article

" PS: I was at the Guinness Rugby Writers bash at the Aviva on Monday night. As I was leaving I bumped into Mike Gibson at the door. I had parked my car no more than 10 metres from the entrance – it didn't say ‘no parking'. Gibson turned around to me as I was getting into the car – ‘Good man Frano, great to see you get special privileges' – as the rain came down in sheets. I said ‘gotta keep the Batmobile close by, just in case'.

The rain at that stage came down in even greater torrents and Gibson took off to find his legally parked car located about 100 metres away. For a man in his 70th year the speed and grace on a wet cobbled surface was truly astonishing. There was only one superhero in this piece and he wasn't sitting in the Batmobile. "

http://www.herald.ie/sport/rugby/ireland-have-to-fry-the-french-2852522.html

Not the famous CMH Gibson from the B & I Lions? If so... you are Legend!

Linebreaker wrote:Too many question marks in the Ireland team I feel. Playing Connacht is merely a training run and not the type of hit out they need less than 3 weeks before the World Cup. Doesn't pose the right questions nor answer anything of significant value.

Having said that - I really hope you win against France tonight.

Breaker, the team vs Connacht was 2nd/3rd string. 6 from that 22 will make the 30. And they wont be playing against ye lot. Im in Dublin at the minute, so really looking forward to watching it in a Pub here later.

We will hammer France.
Slaap lekker

Enjoy the match mate. I hope ye give them a good hammering.

Gibbo,Jennings wasn't the best player in the ML final. Everything else I agree with.

Gibson wrote:Sin,
http://www.herald.ie/sport/rugby/brent-pope-jennings-is-crucial-to-world-cup-ambition-2853174.html

OK, ONE of the best. Poetic licence... And Im glad that you are one the most unbiased Munster fans Ive ever come across. Balance. Its all about the balance...

I want one thing to happen tomorrow. Ireland to beat France and beat them well.

And... Sexton and Reddan play together every week. Also played for Ireland together. Best pairing to play the open game we need to play if we want to progress that is. Have to admit, Im liking Murray. A lot.

Eh, thats the Evening Herald that sponsor Leinster Rugby That's like reading a Leinster fan blogging when it comes to rugby.

Speaking to ex-English secondrow veteran Ben Kay during the week, he said that Jennings was one of the best genuine open-side flankers he had ever played with, and Kay knows a thing or two about what it takes to win a World Cup.

So Jennings isn't the best 7 he ever played with! I wonder would Jennings be able to save Kay's bacon like Moody did in the world cup final?

As for Jennings being the best player in the magners final - I'd have had Wally, the Bull (penality try) and POC way ahead of him for a start. And Jennings hasn't played at 6 or 8 for Leinster since Keith Gleeson left and never at international level!

Only way Jennings will make it is if Wally doesn't.

Yes, sorry. Whatever abouyt every other game this season, Wallace was MoM in the ML Final. No question.

Would I take Jennings anyway.....?! That is a question.

As I see it, this will be the team; 16/14 split.

Healy, Ross, Court......Hayes.....
Best, Fla & Cronin
DOC, POC, Cullen & Ryan
Ferris, Heaslip, Wallace (hopefully fully fit) SOB & Jennings.

Reddan, TOL & Murray (I really like this guy, whatever happens here, by Feb 2012 he will be the 1st choice SH for Ireland)
Sexton & ROG
D'Arcy, BOD, P Wallace
Earls, Trimble, Bowe..... I'd have McFadden over Fitzy. Both have been average in these games but McFadden has been much better in 2011 and can cover centre more capably, imho.
Kearney, Jones

debaters1 wrote:Yes, sorry. Whatever abouyt every other game this season, Wallace was MoM in the ML Final. No question.

Would I take Jennings anyway.....?! That is a question.

As I see it, this will be the team; 16/14 split.

Healy, Ross, Court......Hayes.....
Best, Fla & Cronin
DOC, POC, Cullen & Ryan
Ferris, Heaslip, Wallace (hopefully fully fit) SOB & Jennings.

Reddan, TOL & Murray (I really like this guy, whatever happens here, by Feb 2012 he will be the 1st choice SH for Ireland)
Sexton & ROG
D'Arcy, BOD, P Wallace
Earls, Trimble, Bowe..... I'd have McFadden over Fitzy. Both have been average in these games but McFadden has been much better in 2011 and can cover centre more capably, imho.
Kearney, Jones

Debaters, it was close in the ML Final. Their tussle was a sight to behold and Wally got it in Thomond. So OK. You win that one.
But in 4 or 5 games previous, there was only one winner... I was at them all.

I like the look of your squad too. Agree on most of it actually. Agree on McFadden vs Fitzy. But, Fitzys experience will win the day I believe. In the New World, it shouldnt. Watching Murray over the last few months, I can see what all ye Munster fans are on about now. Has it all. But is it too late for him? He looks like the real deal and the missing-link to get our backline motoring. Jones also. Some speed and so assured, but I knew that watching him play for Leinster and Ireland A. Just admire him for his attitude and comeback from horrible injuries. That is the stuff of an International class player. His self-belief. He will be on Kearney's back for sure next season. All good.

Roysh lads, provinces to one side now. Get that Green shirt on and lets get behind the team today and put these French in their place.
Believe.

Indeed, Gibson, we're all Green today!

And I accept that Jennings has been essential to Leinster this year. And the Fitzy v McFadden......................

As for Jones, well, his recovery to a provincial squad again after his injuries is remarkable never mind a shot and the RWC squad, even a starting berth v Oz. And Murray is the real deal. Big time player. Could be the answer to that gap we have. W shall see!