Irish World Cup 30

First topic message reminder :

Declan Kidney announced the Ireland Rugby Squad for the Rugby World Cup in New Zealand today.


The squad will be captained by Brian O'Driscoll.

Forwards (16) Caps in Brackets

Props (4)
Tony Buckley (Sale Sharks)(23)
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)(20)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)(20)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)(9)

Hookers (3)

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)(49)
Sean Cronin (not assigned club yet/Leinster)(13)
Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)(39)

Second Rows (4)

Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster)(31)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)(74)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)(77)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)(9)

Backrows (5)

Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)(25)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)(37)
Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)(52)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)(11)
David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)(72)

Backs (14)

Scrumhalves (3)

Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster)(14)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)(1)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)(31)

Outhalves (2)

Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)(110)
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)(18)

Centres (3)

Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)(58)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) captain(113)
Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)(28)

Outside Backs (6)

Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)(39)
Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster)(20)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)(29)
Geordan Murphy (Leicester Tigers)(69)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)(4)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)(35)

Provincial Breakdown; Leinster 13, Munster 9, Ulster 5, Overseas 3

And the county breakdown. There are 12 counties and 2 overseas countries represented in the squad. For players born oversea but who grew up in Ireland, I put them down in the county they grew up and regard themselves as being from.

Limerick (7); Cronin, Flannery, Poc, D. Wallace, Reddan, Murray, Earls
Cork (4); Buckley, Ross, Doc, Rog
Dublin (3); Bod, Healy, Sexton
Kildare (3); Heaslip, G. Murphy, McFadden
Tipperary (2); Leamy, Ryan
Antrim (1); Ferris
Down (1); P.Wallace
Carlow (1); O'Brien
Armagh (1); Best
Wicklow (1); Cullen
Wexford (1); D'arcy
Louth (1); Kearney
Monaghan (1); Bowe
Derry/Londonderry/Whatever you want yourself (1); Trimble
Brisbane (1); Court
Tokoroa (1); Boss

That breaks down as;
Munster 13
Leinster 10
Ulster 5
Abroad/Poaches 2

Hmm, I'm in two minds over that. I think Trimble has but I don't think Best is fully match sharp yet. I think he may need a few more minutes on the pitch to get up to speed. Cronin and Best have had two starts each now... I say keep Best in the 22.

Pretty small fry this, would understand either way.

Some big calls by Kidney. Can't understand why Jamie Hagan didn't even get a training session in Carton House though. Buckley will be a paid fan for the duration with maybe a sub appearance against USA.

Submachine - he'll play against Russia. Kidney will go with his main team against USA and Australia. Probably Court and Buckley against Russia and then back to full strength against Italy.

Now for the interesting facts

Heaviest
Buckley 130kg 20st 6lb

lightest
wallace 81kg (12st 10lb)
Rog closesst on 84kg

tallest
6"6 all four of our 2nd rows

smallest
5"9 eoin reddan
boss an inch over

hahahaha!

Isn't it hilarious that Kidney has managed to produce a squad which has such broad agreement that we are reduced to arguing over which county can lay claim to which players??

Only in Ireland!

Good balance overall. Kidney has made some tough calls so that should keep the naysayers at bay for a while. Now if only he puts his strongest team out which includes a fly half that can control a game and make the right calls. Sexton has been very poor now for a long time yet his averageness seems guraranteed to get him a starting spot.

I want to see fastest, longest kick, best acceleration! Come on D24 let me know when you find out!

Trevor Brennan Rugby Tour wrote:Submachine - he'll play against Russia. Kidney will go with his main team against USA and Australia. Probably Court and Buckley against Russia and then back to full strength against Italy.

Fair 'nuff Trev. But it's still likely to be one appearance against a minnow. I would have thought the USA game as I would expect Russia to be good at scrum time. The man is a liability and Hagan should have been afforded an opportunity to show what he could do, at least in training. We know what Buckley can and can't do and an opportunity for a hungry 24 year old who is imo our best scrumaging TH behind Ross should have been factored in.

Acceleration was a tie between SOB 1F and healy

Longest kick was kearney

Fastest was tony buckley

Most one arm pull ups was trimble but the lads arent happy he had a glove

Average age of the RWC 30 is 26.5 years.

Ageing in comparison to some?

Any fans of other teams know/worked out the average age of their RWC 30s?

Submachine - why do you think that Russia are going to have a great scrum. They haven't impressed against Newport-Gwent, Northampton or the Ospreys.

Titterall was a Lion for heaven sake - being Lion does not make a player a quality International. Never underestiamte bizarre/biased selection.

Fact is there are a couple of Irish Lions staying home and I believe that is the correct decision. Form now is not form of 2 years ago and we have to go with the players we believe will do the best job - regardless of their past.

Thankfully that is what Kidney has done. EOS will have gone on reputation, and the past, and we would be sending a weaker team to the WC as a result.

As an aside does anyone know the rules if say 2 props get injured early on - can you call for replacements.

Pretty sure you can yes Geoff. Think that goes for any player if there is a serious injury

geoff998rugby wrote:As an aside does anyone know the rules if say 2 props get injured early on - can you call for replacements.

I believe so but the players they replace would be out for the rest of the tournament.

Trevor Brennan Rugby Tour wrote:Submachine - why do you think that Russia are going to have a great scrum. They haven't impressed against Newport-Gwent, Northampton or the Ospreys.

I think they will be stronger scrumagers than USA, but thats not the point. Given the lack of options at TH and Buckleys inconsistent form (being kind). I thing Hagan should have been given a go.

Wasn't Kidney saying something about replacements not being allowed to arrive within 48 hours of an injury or something like that?

I think you can do that with any position.

We must be the most infuriating team in world rugby. Just looking at our squad on paper we have such an amazing team yet we play like Poopie more times than not. At least with the footie team we have a rubbish team so nothing is expected from them

Submachine wrote:

Trevor Brennan Rugby Tour wrote:Submachine - why do you think that Russia are going to have a great scrum. They haven't impressed against Newport-Gwent, Northampton or the Ospreys.

I think they will be stronger scrumagers than USA, but thats not the point. Given the lack of options at TH and Buckleys inconsistent form (being kind). I thing Hagan should have been given a go.

But there is more to it than just scrummaging. He needs to be able to slot in with lifting in the lineout as well. We need our lineout to be functioning better than it has been - introducing a new lifter might not be a great idea just makes it that bit harder on everyone else.

C'mon You Irish wrote:We must be the most infuriating team in world rugby. Just looking at our squad on paper we have such an amazing team yet we play like Poopie more times than not. At least with the footie team we have a rubbish team so nothing is expected from them

Quite a few of that team on paper have been injured though. When was the last time that all of those players on paper were available for selection?

Know it is somewhat off topic but....

VDM-Strauss-Hagan
Skyes-Toner/McLaughlin
Ryan/McLaughlin-Ruddock-Jennings (c)
Willis-Berquist
Fitzgerald/Macken-O'Malley
Carr/Fitzgerald-Nacewa-Horgan

Mcgrath-?-JSW-Toner/McLaughlin-Keogh-Du Toit-McKingley-Conway/Kearney

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Know it is somewhat off topic but....

VDM-Strauss-Hagan
Skyes-Toner/McLaughlin
Ryan/McLaughlin-Ruddock-Jennings (c)
Willis-Berquist
Fitzgerald/Macken-O'Malley
Carr/Fitzgerald-Nacewa-Horgan

Mcgrath-?-JSW-Toner/McLaughlin-Keogh-Du Toit-McKingley-Conway/Kearney

I don't follow. For next friendly? When the internationals are gone? I'd say create a new thread. These Irish ones get busy enough and there is a lot of discussion in that one.

When internationals are gone. Just was doing the calculations there.

I wonder are we going to be putting out close to a full string side against America??

I'd say we'll have a near full strenght team against USA, full strenght against Australia and then our second string players against Russia before our must win match against Italy.

I'd say everyone will get gametime.

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Trevor Brennan Rugby Tour wrote:Submachine - why do you think that Russia are going to have a great scrum. They haven't impressed against Newport-Gwent, Northampton or the Ospreys.

I think they will be stronger scrumagers than USA, but thats not the point. Given the lack of options at TH and Buckleys inconsistent form (being kind). I thing Hagan should have been given a go.

But there is more to it than just scrummaging. He needs to be able to slot in with lifting in the lineout as well. We need our lineout to be functioning better than it has been - introducing a new lifter might not be a great idea just makes it that bit harder on everyone else.

First and foremost your Tight head needs to be able to lock out the scrum. As for lifting, it's just a matter of learning the calls and practicing. Hagan was part of a fairly good lineout combination at Connacht.

Every position has certain core skills that need to be present:
Scrum half needs to pass the ball quickly and effectively - TOL dropped
Back 3 players need to be assured under pressure in defence and quick - Fitz dropped as he is only quick
Tihght head prop needs to be able to scrumage - Buckley?

Any word on Cian Healy's foot?

I'd certainly hope so.
Getting the balance between the English and USA game is gonna be tricky I'd say between building momentum, giving guys game time and resting others

I have to admit with a certain amount of awe that Ireland seem to have the best backrow of all the NH countries, not just your starting 3 but all 5 of them I think would get in to any of the other teams.

I would literally give my first born for a player like SOB to be English.

Majorly depressed now thinking about who we're going to pick for the WC and this weekends game.

For England I'd imagine:

Court, Flannery, Ross
DOC, POC
Ferris, Heaslip, Wallace
Murray, Sexton
Darcy, BOD
Earls, Murphy, Bowe

Best, Healy, Ryan, O'Brien, Boss, O'Gara, McFadden

Then against USA looking maybe at:

Healy, Flannery, Ross
DOC, POC
O'Brien, Heaslip, Wallace
Reddan, Sexton
Darcy, BOD
Trimble, Kearney, Bowe

Best, Buckley, Cullen, Ferris, Boss, O'Gara, Earls

If we had a game between our first 15 and second how would the reserves get on


healy v Court
best flannery
ross buckley
DOC ryan
POC cullen
SOB ferris (only back so in 2nds)
wallace cronin
Heislip leamy

reddan murray
sexton ROG(could change soon)

Dorce wallace
BOD Earls

Trimble mcfadden
bowe boss
Kearney murphy


now this is just for a looksee its not are full first side and a few could swap around but based on our last few games

Cant wait to see Ferris and Heaslip playing together again. They worked really well together and put together a few moves in the 6N which everyone seems to have forgotten about with Ferris's injury. Think it could be a real strength again. Not to mention the difference Ferris will make to the breakdown.
In fact the more you think about it the more crucial Ferris becomes.

Think that it's a little early for Ferris to start ahead of O'Brien Artful and they really shouldn't be on the same pitch unless there are injuries to Heaslip and Wallace.

If Ferris can get back up to pre injury form I think he just shades it though which is scary when you think about it.

I was talking about the England warm up game where i expect Ferris to start as he hasnt started a match yet but came on for 15 against France and looked at his explosive best. Ferris and Heaslip where working brilliantly before Ferris got injured and to be frank without Ferris our breakdown has fallen to pieces.

I have no doubt that if fit Ferris will start at 6, O'Brien is an out and out ball carrier doesnt do the work Ferris does at the breakdown. With Wallace at 7 and Heaslip at 8 we dont need another ball carrier at 6.

This is the sort of thing Im talking about and it wasnt a one off cause they had started doing this sort of thing a lot before Ferris got injured.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rydi0cS68c4

With Sob injured for this weekend - and Wallace likely to be subbed after 60 mins (first game back and that) Leamy will have to fill in at 7?
Ryan on the bench then over Cullen?

I agree Dodger.

Don't agree on all this talk of ROG overtaking Sexton.
People say Sexton hasn't played well in an international shirt for a while the english game aside. I honestly feel (This isn't a wum) that the reason he hasn't been playing as well is due to TOL forcing him deeper and also the fact the defence is so set by the time TOL gets the ball to him.

Look at Sexton in games with reddan.

Apologies if that appears as if I am making excuses or Leisnter bias but I honestly feel this.

PS: I still think ROG is awesome and was exceptional against France in Bordeaux at times.

poissonrouge wrote:Wasn't Kidney saying something about replacements not being allowed to arrive within 48 hours of an injury or something like that?

I think you can do that with any position.

I think the rule is no replacements can be called out/used within 48 hours of an upcoming match. This was done to offset the advantage that more local teams i.e. NZ, Aus, PIs might have in calling up a replacement at last minute.

Strong squad. I'm happy. Buckley is a weakness, but we don't really have anyone better to back up Ross. I really hope Ross doesn't get injured. He doesn't seem to be an injury prone player though.

D24tress wrote:Acceleration was a tie between SOB 1F and healy

Longest kick was kearney

Fastest was tony buckley

Most one arm pull ups was trimble but the lads arent happy he had a glove

I'd add this to the op but I don't completely trust them.

Pete; Rog has been very good but sexton is the better player.

I was particularly disappointed with Sexton's restarts/22s on Saturday and that was nothing to do with TOL. He just doesn't have the accuracy and timing of ROG's kicks and that is an important area to work on. IMO having ROG on the bench is a good tactic though as territory really hurts when teams tire.

Re Hagan - wasn't he called into one of the prelim training squads (along with DFitz)? Either way Kidney's ethos has been to monitor potential players at the provinces before they ever get near the squad, so I'd be confident he knows as much as he needs to about Hagan.

im happy with the squad. to be honest. professional sport is cutting edge and tough. o leary and fitzgerald just have not played well enough over the last 6 months. fitzgerald may be a little hard done by as he has played some good stuff but he has also mad a lot of bad errors. lets hope both learn from experience and improve as players

my only gripe is that i would have actually brought hayes for buckley. the bull is still better than him aged 37 and would have been a nice way to go out.

happy with the inclusion of murray and mcfadden.

listen we have not tried anything different in midfield over the last 8years.lets hope that drico and darcy improve drastically from last week. yes we should have tried bowe in midfield but its too late now.

earls is now under pressure for his starting place and rightly so. for one so fast he is quite keen on kicking the ball away or throwing it away particularly in a green jersey. back yourself young man for the love of god. you have pace to burn. it seems that many of our backs tend to panic at international level. is the step up from heino cup really that large. I personally dont think so. put it down to lack of direction from gaffney and poor support play. when they make a rare line break the support runners are almost in shock.

team for england - murphy, bowe, drico, darcy, trimble, sexton, reddan, heaslip, obrien, ferris, o connell, donners, ross, flannery, healy subs court, best, cullen, leamy, murray, rog, mc fadden. murray,rog, mcfadden all great impact subs.

please god alan gaffney gets the back playing with some direction. they have been rubbish as a unit and off first phase for a long time. shovelling the ball out to the wings and chipping ahead is unacceptable. whats wrong with the wingers cutting angles into midfield and a few dummy runners. we have been swatted into touch so much over the last few games. id start bowe and trimble as they are bigger and more direct and their support play is better.

reddan and sexton have played well for the best team in europe this year. good enough for me. first choice please deccie. murray is promising but should be used as an impact sub. he seems keen to keep them apart at all costs.

a win is essential and a performance. As we are playing the old enemy we will probably get both. good god id be worried if we lose to a big tough but dull english team..

It can't have been a ploy by Kidney to hold off the attacking set plays until the competition starts could it? I don't agree with the strategy if it was true.

Dublin-dave; I agree with most of your team for England but reckon Wallace needs a game in the backrow and Heaslip and Ferris will partner him there. I also reckon that Murray would start as he needs game time and Reddan is well used to playing with Sexton and Heaslip either side. Finally, I wonder would Trimble move over to the other wing or will Earls start with Trimble rested and Kearney on the bench for some more minutes action?

Certainly no ploy to hold back. There is no point doing something in training ground only and not being sure how it goes in live play before the RWC. Trimble wont play this weekend.

thought i read wallace was injured lads. if not he must start agreed.

Will Bowe diffenitly be fit for the England? Or is it just guess work?

HURLEY, this is from Healy's twitter

“@ProperChurch: hey y'all... on the mend now! only a sore toe, but Jesus it hurt... like stubbing it on somethin x100 ha! CHURCH”

Will Bowe didn't make the squad but his younger brother Tommy is 50/50 for Saturday

[quote="RubyGuby"]Will Bowe didn't make the squad but his younger brother Tommy is 50/50 for Saturday [/quote]

Thanks for clearing that up

Pot Hale wrote:Average age of the RWC 30 is 26.5 years.

Ageing in comparison to some?

Any fans of other teams know/worked out the average age of their RWC 30s?

England squad average age 27.57.

Well now, what was it they all said about an ageing Ireland and such a young England ....

Wales squad average age - 25.6

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I agree Dodger.

Don't agree on all this talk of ROG overtaking Sexton.
People say Sexton hasn't played well in an international shirt for a while the english game aside. I honestly feel (This isn't a wum) that the reason he hasn't been playing as well is due to TOL forcing him deeper and also the fact the defence is so set by the time TOL gets the ball to him.

Look at Sexton in games with reddan.

Apologies if that appears as if I am making excuses or Leisnter bias but I honestly feel this.

So whats the excuse in the head-to-heads in the Magners? Since Conor Murray has become Munster scrumhalf, Munster have not lost to Leinster and Leinster have only scored one illegal try. And with Reddan as the starting scrumhalf, Leinster didn't score any tries.

(Both Reddan & Boss have had a start each for these two games).