Irish World Cup 30

First topic message reminder :

Declan Kidney announced the Ireland Rugby Squad for the Rugby World Cup in New Zealand today.


The squad will be captained by Brian O'Driscoll.

Forwards (16) Caps in Brackets

Props (4)
Tony Buckley (Sale Sharks)(23)
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)(20)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)(20)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)(9)

Hookers (3)

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)(49)
Sean Cronin (not assigned club yet/Leinster)(13)
Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)(39)

Second Rows (4)

Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster)(31)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)(74)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)(77)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)(9)

Backrows (5)

Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)(25)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)(37)
Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)(52)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)(11)
David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)(72)

Backs (14)

Scrumhalves (3)

Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster)(14)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)(1)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)(31)

Outhalves (2)

Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)(110)
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)(18)

Centres (3)

Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)(58)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) captain(113)
Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)(28)

Outside Backs (6)

Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)(39)
Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster)(20)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)(29)
Geordan Murphy (Leicester Tigers)(69)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)(4)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)(35)

Provincial Breakdown; Leinster 13, Munster 9, Ulster 5, Overseas 3

And the county breakdown. There are 12 counties and 2 overseas countries represented in the squad. For players born oversea but who grew up in Ireland, I put them down in the county they grew up and regard themselves as being from.

Limerick (7); Cronin, Flannery, Poc, D. Wallace, Reddan, Murray, Earls
Cork (4); Buckley, Ross, Doc, Rog
Dublin (3); Bod, Healy, Sexton
Kildare (3); Heaslip, G. Murphy, McFadden
Tipperary (2); Leamy, Ryan
Antrim (1); Ferris
Down (1); P.Wallace
Carlow (1); O'Brien
Armagh (1); Best
Wicklow (1); Cullen
Wexford (1); D'arcy
Louth (1); Kearney
Monaghan (1); Bowe
Derry/Londonderry/Whatever you want yourself (1); Trimble
Brisbane (1); Court
Tokoroa (1); Boss

That breaks down as;
Munster 13
Leinster 10
Ulster 5
Abroad/Poaches 2

When we get rid Of Wally & ROG, it drops considerably.

Really happy with that squad. Deccie has entrusted in players I never thought he would. Mr Conservative goes for broke. Some brave calls and I agree with all of them. I hope they repay his faith in them now. Glad Murray and McFadden are in. We need their zip.

Delighted for Cullen and Murphy. Their experience & intelligence will be priceless for the younger lads in the squad.

Believe.

And start the believing on Saturday with a controlled yet rampant Irish performance

Its England Ruby. No further motivation needed.

When you look at the average age of all the squads it's encouraging for the Lions,

Sure is Cymro. We (The Home Nations) have some great young talent that will come out of this RWC, so much the better for the experience. Good and bad.

Lions team aged under 25 or younger

01 Cian Healy
02 Dylan Hartley
03 Dan Cole
04 Courtney Lawes
05 Richie Grey
06 Tom Croft
07 Sam Warburton
08 Sean O'Brien
09 Ben Youngs
10 Rhys Priestland
11 George North
12 Jamie Roberts
13 Manu Tuilagi
14 Chris Ashton
15 Rob Kearney

16 Sean Cronin
17 Alex Cobisiero
18 Alun Wyn-Jones
19 John Barclay
20 Joe Simpson
21 Ruaridh Jackson
22 Keith Earls

Couldn't abide having Croft and O'Brien in the same side!

Thats a hell of a lot of pressure on Warburton to win ball and hit rucks.

Stag that will make a good thread after this weekends match the quiet time while we wait for the WC to start.

Sin-

Not an excuse buddy at all. Still think that Sexton is a much more complete player than ROG. In the original post I said it wasn't an excuse.

Handy that the last two games against you were home games for Munster eh?
How about we do it over the last 5 or 6 games????

Cymroglan wrote:Stag that will make a good thread after this weekends match the quiet time while we wait for the WC to start.

We'll hold off on discussion so til then

Imagine a Lions tour in 2013 all under 30. Is rugby becoming a young mans game.

I am really happy with the squad. Declan has certainly made some hard decisions, decisions i did'nt expect him to make so i am impressed

Stag, certain countries are quick to blood their younger players while others aren't. England are starting to do it after years of sticking with their WC team. Ireland have been quite slow to do it, Sexton was 23,I think when he got his first cap. While Flood was 21 and Giteau got his first at 20. I suppose you could also say that due to the increasing physicality of rugby, younger players are seeing greater game time due to more injuries. I think it might be fair to say that players may be retiring younger.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Sin-

Not an excuse buddy at all. Still think that Sexton is a much more complete player than ROG. In the original post I said it wasn't an excuse.

Handy that the last two games against you were home games for Munster eh?
How about we do it over the last 5 or 6 games????

Couldnt disagree more. Sexton is most definitely not a more complete player than ROG. His passing has been poor, his decision making dreadful, the Ireland backs have been completely flat with him standing at outhalf.

At least with ROG playing the team are moving forward and he knows exactly when to go out wide. Sexton has been Mr average and while Im wouldnt be to bothered with him starting I just wouldnt have any major confidence.

I also dont think that Sexton is a more complete player as ROG just yet but he has the makings of it. Remember that ROG was also very inconsistent when he came onto the scene.

In fact ROG is becoming a better player again since he has been put under extreme pressure by Sexton for his place. Since Sexton arrived, ROG has had to put in some big performances and he has done that so the competition is healthy.

In the lead up to Sexton's try on Saturday i was amazed to see ROG cleaning out the ruck to give Sexton the room to score, i havent seen that from him in donkeys.

I am still well impressed with Deccies choice to play them together on Saturday, they looked very comfortable playing together against a very good French side and would'nt be suprised to see that combo again during the RWC.

eirebilly wrote:I also dont think that Sexton is a more complete player as ROG just yet but he has the makings of it. Remember that ROG was also very inconsistent when he came onto the scene.

In fact ROG is becoming a better player again since he has been put under extreme pressure by Sexton for his place. Since Sexton arrived, ROG has had to put in some big performances and he has done that so the competition is healthy.

In the lead up to Sexton's try on Saturday i was amazed to see ROG cleaning out the ruck to give Sexton the room to score, i havent seen that from him in donkeys.

I am still well impressed with Deccies choice to play them together on Saturday, they looked very comfortable playing together against a very good French side and would'nt be suprised to see that combo again during the RWC.

Agree 100% with all of the above regards both players.

While I thought the ROG, Sexton partnership was good I don’t think it was planned. I reckon t was a contingency measure that they were forced into when Jones went off.

I tell you though, I wouldn’t mind seeing it against England though.

ROG is having something of a Indian summer regarding his form. I have been really impressed with him of late. it reminds me of his form in the 2007 6N when he was fantastic. I dont think we can blame Sexton however for how the rest of the backline lines up. they are clearly playing to some kind of plan and to me it looks like a coaching issue.

i would still start sexton with reddan this weekend to see how it goes. I do think playing outside ToL has been a handicap (others will disagree but we need to see how he goes with Reddan). If sexton doesnt impress then ROG starts the USA game to try and stake his claim.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Sin-

Not an excuse buddy at all. Still think that Sexton is a much more complete player than ROG. In the original post I said it wasn't an excuse.

Handy that the last two games against you were home games for Munster eh?
How about we do it over the last 5 or 6 games????

We can if you like - the previous game in the Aviva - Leinster scraped a win. Before that, Leinster scraped another win etc. etc. In that time, ROG has had service from O'Leary (you know, the scrumhalf that you all blame for Sexton's poor performances ).

I think Munster have figured out all Leinster's moves. Time for Joe to drop Gaffney's Sexton wraparound move. Its not working anymore.

Sexton has all the physical attributes - but his game control and kicking out of hand is still a long, long way behind O'Gara's. I bet the forwards get a big lift when they see O'Gara coming on. They know he will try and make life easy for them.

Why does every Irish thread always come back to Munster this, Leinster that.
Boring !

Mickado wrote:While I thought the ROG, Sexton partnership was good I don’t think it was planned. I reckon t was a contingency measure that they were forced into when Jones went off.

I tell you though, I wouldn’t mind seeing it against England though.

The sequence of events was this;

Ronan O'Gara replaced Gordon D'Arcy
Sexton moved to 12
Felix Jones was injured
Luke Fitzgerald replaced Jones

I'm sure thats how it happened... no?

O'Gara came onto the field before Fitzgerald anyway- as in, when they decided to replace D'Arcy, Fitzgerald was deliberately left on the bench. It wasn't because ROG was the last unused sub.

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:Why does every Irish thread always come back to Munster this, Leinster that.
Boring !

Because most the players who are going to the world cup play for these two teams. In measuring them up, of course you are going to have to compare them in their club appearances, particularly head to head games. The Ireland management always watch the interpros to make selections for the 6Ns for instance.

Sin é wrote:

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:Why does every Irish thread always come back to Munster this, Leinster that.
Boring !

Because most the players who are going to the world cup play for these two teams. In measuring them up, of course you are going to have to compare them in their club appearances, particularly head to head games. The Ireland management always watch the interpros to make selections for the 6Ns for instance.

No, you just have a bizarre fetish for all things Munster

Sin é wrote:

We can if you like - the previous game in the Aviva - Leinster scraped a win.

This just shows how you don't see anythin but Munster when you view Irish rugby.In the game in the Aviva which Leinster scraped a win,we were playing badly and had no direction until Sexton came off the bench.Then we took hold of the game and dominated Munster as Sexton pulled the strings.He was far better in 20 minutes than RoG was for the whole game.
These players will both have games where they outperform each other but you'll only bring it up when O'Gara is the one doing well.

Leinster won that Aviva game with ease. We had one chance to score a try and offered nothing besides that,this was when Leinster were in poor form at the beginning of last season too. Let's move on!

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

We can if you like - the previous game in the Aviva - Leinster scraped a win.

This just shows how you don't see anythin but Munster when you view Irish rugby.In the game in the Aviva which Leinster scraped a win,we were playing badly and had no direction until Sexton came off the bench.Then we took hold of the game and dominated Munster as Sexton pulled the strings.He was far better in 20 minutes than RoG was for the whole game.
These players will both have games where they outperform each other but you'll only bring it up when O'Gara is the one doing well.

When I say scraped a win - I mean there was 4pts in it. Munster were shocking poor (Mafi YC, no POC, Flannery*, Earls - Wallace coming back from injury for a few minutes at the end), and Leinster were not much better. BOD scored the only try from a fairly spectacular offload from Sean O'Brien. I just don't recall any flowing Leinster backline moves.

Thomond wrote:Leinster won that Aviva game with ease. We had one chance to score a try and offered nothing besides that,this was when Leinster were in poor form at the beginning of last season too. Let's move on!

+1
And Munster stuffed us in the ML Final. Who cares now? We are ONE. Ulster players to have a major impact in this RWC? I believe so. I think we are collectively called Ireland.

Shoulder.. to shoulder... we'll answer Irelands call.

Indeed Gibbo. There is even a slim chance that all 5 Ulster players will feature in the first choice 22. I cant recall that having happened anytime recently.

I'd say this will be completely different to the last World Cup in that a much wider pool of players will see gametime. I just hope it's completely different in terms of results too!

I also want to say that the fact there is an argument about some Leinster vs Munster game from last season on this thread is just... so...

Look we're all just Irish now. Provincial stuff means nothing now. Let's just get behind the team. This is ridiculous.

Word going around is SOB is out for 3-4 weeks with knee trouble. Exact extent of the injury still a little unknown.

That would be a big blow if it is the case. It would stretch our resources as Ferris will have to be managed through the pool games you would think

Leamy liable to get game time at 6 then?

If of course that rumor is true...

With ferris after playing 20mins and wallace nothing in the warm up this is not great.

he would have been rested this week anyway hopefully he will have three weeks by the first game

There is truth in it alright - from Sean senior but was sketchy on the details himself - tendon in the knee (nothing serious) just 3 -4 weeks out.

That was news from yesterday morning, possible it could had changed (i.e. the length of time out).

It is roughly 3 weeks till the Aus game anyway and he already has a couple of games under his belt. Fingers crossed it isnt that bad. Ferris needs the games anyway and leamy on the bench for England and US isnt so bad

Standulstermen wrote:It is roughly 3 weeks till the Aus game anyway and he already has a couple of games under his belt. Fingers crossed it isnt that bad. Ferris needs the games anyway and leamy on the bench for England and US isnt so bad

I agree fully nothing to get too worried about as it is roughly 3 weeks to our first pool game, Leamy gets the bench spot and Fes and Wallace start, how bad.

Sh1t! I'm worried. 2 x injured flankers and Leamy. England are going to want to knock lumps out of us at the breakdown. With SOB out we will need to use D Ryan for USA just in case. (As well as Leamy)

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Sh1t! I'm worried. 2 x injured flankers and Leamy. England are going to want to knock lumps out of us at the breakdown. With SOB out we will need to use D Ryan for USA just in case. (As well as Leamy)

That will mean he won't have played with Wallace. Leamy has been doing just fine so far.

Gibson wrote:

Thomond wrote:Leinster won that Aviva game with ease. We had one chance to score a try and offered nothing besides that,this was when Leinster were in poor form at the beginning of last season too. Let's move on!

+1
And Munster stuffed us in the ML Final. Who cares now? We are ONE. Ulster players to have a major impact in this RWC? I believe so. I think we are collectively called Ireland.

Shoulder.. to shoulder... we'll answer Irelands call.

Don't forget "Four proud PROVINCES of Ireland". The IRFU actively promote that our rugby team is 4 provinces coming together.

Sin é wrote:

Gibson wrote:

Thomond wrote:Leinster won that Aviva game with ease. We had one chance to score a try and offered nothing besides that,this was when Leinster were in poor form at the beginning of last season too. Let's move on!

+1
And Munster stuffed us in the ML Final. Who cares now? We are ONE. Ulster players to have a major impact in this RWC? I believe so. I think we are collectively called Ireland.

Shoulder.. to shoulder... we'll answer Irelands call.

Don't forget "Four proud PROVINCES of Ireland". The IRFU actively promote that our rugby team is 4 provinces coming together.

Em, right. But that doesn't mean we all split into our provincial camps. We're all Irish rugby fans together. Can we not get a bit of unity going here?

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Gibson wrote:

Thomond wrote:Leinster won that Aviva game with ease. We had one chance to score a try and offered nothing besides that,this was when Leinster were in poor form at the beginning of last season too. Let's move on!

+1
And Munster stuffed us in the ML Final. Who cares now? We are ONE. Ulster players to have a major impact in this RWC? I believe so. I think we are collectively called Ireland.

Shoulder.. to shoulder... we'll answer Irelands call.

Don't forget "Four proud PROVINCES of Ireland". The IRFU actively promote that our rugby team is 4 provinces coming together.

Em, right. But that doesn't mean we all split into our provincial camps. We're all Irish rugby fans together. Can we not get a bit of unity going here?

I'll repeat again. The context of why those games were brought up was to do with which of the two Ireland outhalfs can get a backline moving. Do you just want a "Sexton is", "No O'Gara is" best type of debate going on and on, or do you want some examples? Now, unfortunately both these guys happen to play for the two unmentionable provincial teams. If we can't mention these teams, style of play, exploits of any of the players, how do you speculate on the team that will start? Its going to get very quiet around here if that is the case.

(by the way, I'm getting a bit tired of people jumping in on threads throwing in pointless comments about 'this is provincial bias' just because they don't like it or more than likely feel excluded.)

It's actually quite funny, as you seem entirely lacking in self-awareness. Everything is how you want to see it. Needless to say, such debates are NOT banned nor is anything else (within reason) but the day we see you harking back to a Leinster vs Munster game or anything else to support the case of a non-Munster player is when people might believe you're supporting Ireland without bring any kind of provincial perspective to the table.

The point people are making is this; the World Cup is coming up. Munster, Leinster, Ulster or Connacht aren't playing in the RWC but Ireland are. So while it's reasonable to talk about some form before the summer, it's becoming less and less relevant. Not irrelevant; but less relevant. Now is the time for us to get together and assess players without our provincial goggles on based on the context of what they provide to the team. It's not about tenuous point-scoring from games that happened months ago. When someone comes with an opinion that a player from another province is better than a Munster player in the context of the Ireland team, you jump on their back and start a long, dull argument that dominates the discussion. It becomes very hard to talk rugby.

Right now, I consider O'Gara to be ahead of Sexton in the pecking order based on what I've seen of the two players in the warm-ups although I believe Sexton may well be worth persevering with. Stag, an ardent Munster fan, disagrees and sees Sexton as our first choice. Pete, a Leinster fan agrees with Stag for much the same reasons regarding his running game. I personally feel O'Gara is playing a lot closer to the gainline and is distributing well.

I know this will probably fall on deaf ears, but please consider that not everyone who wants certain players to start does it because of their provincial allegiance. Some of us want to talk rugby as one Irish fan to another without having to navigate round long arguments where the main objective is to argue that players from one province are better than another.

Notch wrote:It's actually quite funny, as you seem entirely lacking in self-awareness. Everything is how you want to see it. Needless to say, such debates are NOT banned nor is anything else (within reason) but the day we see you harking back to a Leinster vs Munster game or anything else to support the case of a non-Munster player is when people might believe you're supporting Ireland without bring any kind of provincial perspective to the table.

The point people are making is this; the World Cup is coming up. Munster, Leinster, Ulster or Connacht aren't playing in the RWC but Ireland are. So while it's reasonable to talk about some form before the summer, it's becoming less and less relevant. Not irrelevant; but less relevant. Now is the time for us to get together and assess players without our provincial goggles on based on the context of what they provide to the team. It's not about tenuous point-scoring from games that happened months ago. When someone comes with an opinion that a player from another province is better than a Munster player in the context of the Ireland team, you jump on their back and start a long, dull argument that dominates the discussion. It becomes very hard to talk rugby.

Right now, I consider O'Gara to be ahead of Sexton in the pecking order based on what I've seen of the two players in the warm-ups although I believe Sexton may well be worth persevering with. Stag, an ardent Munster fan, disagrees and sees Sexton as our first choice. Pete, a Leinster fan agrees with Stag for much the same reasons regarding his running game. I personally feel O'Gara is playing a lot closer to the gainline and is distributing well.

I know this will probably fall on deaf ears, but please consider that not everyone who wants certain players to start does it because of their provincial allegiance. Some of us want to talk rugby as one Irish fan to another without having to navigate round long arguments where the main objective is to argue that players from one province are better than another.

+1 to that

Sin é, you're an original poster with a completely different way of arguing than everyone else and, to be fair, you back up what your saying with a load of stats which is always interesting to me (even though your views are insane to me sometimes). However, I've never seen you come to the defence of a player outside Munster. When have you ever debated with someone favouring a Leinsterman or an Ulsterman with stats? It has just never happened. I don't blame you really, you support Munster, why would you have stats of Leinstermen? You're supporting Ireland now though Sin so it's time to pack away the Munster stat propaganda megaphone of yours and get the green one out!

Notch wrote:It's actually quite funny, as you seem entirely lacking in self-awareness. Everything is how you want to see it. Needless to say, such debates are NOT banned nor is anything else (within reason) but the day we see you harking back to a Leinster vs Munster game or anything else to support the case of a non-Munster player is when people might believe you're supporting Ireland without bring any kind of provincial perspective to the table.

The point people are making is this; the World Cup is coming up. Munster, Leinster, Ulster or Connacht aren't playing in the RWC but Ireland are. So while it's reasonable to talk about some form before the summer, it's becoming less and less relevant. Not irrelevant; but less relevant. Now is the time for us to get together and assess players without our provincial goggles on based on the context of what they provide to the team. It's not about tenuous point-scoring from games that happened months ago. When someone comes with an opinion that a player from another province is better than a Munster player in the context of the Ireland team, you jump on their back and start a long, dull argument that dominates the discussion. It becomes very hard to talk rugby.

Right now, I consider O'Gara to be ahead of Sexton in the pecking order based on what I've seen of the two players in the warm-ups although I believe Sexton may well be worth persevering with. Stag, an ardent Munster fan, disagrees and sees Sexton as our first choice. Pete, a Leinster fan agrees with Stag for much the same reasons regarding his running game. I personally feel O'Gara is playing a lot closer to the gainline and is distributing well.

I know this will probably fall on deaf ears, but please consider that not everyone who wants certain players to start does it because of their provincial allegiance. Some of us want to talk rugby as one Irish fan to another without having to navigate round long arguments where the main objective is to argue that players from one province are better than another.

Why do you all feel to comment on it anyway - a sure way to derail every thread. Why am I not allowed back up in my opinion. Your basing it on two warm up games - I'm basing it on 2 warm up games and a couple of head-to-heads. I seem to remember the England half-backs v the Ireland half-backs being brough up when Leinster played Leicester in the Heineken Cup, so its not unusual that players will be compared in this way.

What does self-awareness have to do with having an opinion? Munster, Leinster, Ulster or Connacht may not be playing in the world cup, but some of those players from these places are. Will you claim that I'm being provincially biased by saying that Tommy Bowe's positioning wasn't great when he played outside centre the last time for the Ospreys against Munster (for the record, the only time I really see Tommy Bowe playing for the Ospreys is against Munster). Obviously, unlike the rest of the posters here, I don't see every Magners game that he plays and so I can only comment on the ones that I do see which are usually against Munster.

It was Pete who brought up the last 6 games between Munster & Leinster - why don't you have a go at him for that?

And Notch, for the record - there would be no love lost between Munster supporters from Cork and Limerick, which might explain how some Munster supporters find it easier to appreciate players from different clubs.

mrsuperclear wrote:Sin é, you're an original poster with a completely different way of arguing than everyone else and, to be fair, you back up what your saying with a load of stats which is always interesting to me (even though your views are insane to me sometimes). However, I've never seen you come to the defence of a player outside Munster. When have you ever debated with someone favouring a Leinsterman or an Ulsterman with stats? It has just never happened. I don't blame you really, you support Munster, why would you have stats of Leinstermen? You're supporting Ireland now though Sin so it's time to pack away the Munster stat propaganda megaphone of yours and get the green one out!

I'll defend any player that I know the facts to be wrong. A few weeks ago I defended Gordon D'Arcy - someone was having a go at him for putting off his operation until after his holidays. I found the newspaper quote from the ireland management which claimed that the medics had put the op off, not D'Arcy.

And I think you will find in somewhere on this site a team picked by me that had so many Leinster players on it, that one Leinster supporter felt compelled to post that they were surprised at my team pick. This was prior to the warm-up games and I had Sexton as the starting OH against Australia (and I gave my reasons for having him there ahead of O'Gara).

Ditto the last two posts. Kudos lady & gent.

Whatever happens regarding selection for any one game, I want Ireland to win, even if no Munster players are in it. I don't think that'll be best team, but I'll still want Ireland to win.

News this morning says Sean O'Brien has a knee injury and could miss the opener against USA.

clivemcl wrote:News this morning says Sean O'Brien has a knee injury and could miss the opener against USA.

Is that’s all he misses we should be fine. He has a couple of games under his belt and the US game can be thought of as another warmup.