Springboks v Wales - Matchup ( Brussow : Warbuton )

Wonder what everyone thinks of this very interesting battle .On the Welsh side the young leader Warbuton only 22 years of age but already captaining his country to the World Cup. Anyone who captains their country at such a young age has surely got to have some special x factor around him and that seem to be the cas. He's on a meteoric rise and according to some pundits he's the most important player (bar Adam jones) in the Welsh side.He;s a fetcher and a fine one at that plus he's a ballcarrier with pace for a backrower.One of the Guys to watch this World Cup and indeed years to come .

On the Bok side of things is the pint sized freestate warrior Heinrich Brussow.The slightly injury prone south african answer to Richie Mccaw and Bam Bam Pocock. The only player in World rugby who can confidently say they've faced the All blacks four times and never lost .Three of those games were against the Great Mccaw before you ask. Brussow proved he's worth his weight in gold last week with 5 turnovers vs the AB in PE.Simply put he's a turnover machine and he does it without getting penalised much like mccaw except no one questions Brussow's tactics.


your views who will take center stage come september 11?

Two very different players in every way but both are outstanding in doing what their best at.

A straight answer would be Warburton because I think he will do the more eye-catching stuff eg. strong running with the ball not something Brussow is known for.

HOWEVER, I think the back row as a unit will go the way of SA because Wales have nothing to compare Spies with and Burger/Albert imo are better than Lydiate.

It will be a fascinating match up because SA have had a disastrous build up compared to a solid one from Wales, but both teams started from way different levels.
I still favour SA to win.

I would give anything for Brussouw in the Irish team. Warburton is going to be a star but Brussouw (if fit) would walk into the All Black squad even

people under estimate lydiate, him and warbuton are a very good pairing- warbuton gets noticed more but lydiate is always doing the hard work on the floor and putting in big hits- wouldnt be too sure if the S.A back row unit will be better than wales'

I think Welshy makes a good point, Warburton is an awesome talent but its his partnership with lydiate that is really working, and Faletau just seems to add to that balance despite his inexperience.

However, Brussow is a proven world class performer who has performed at the highest level and is integral to any hope of success he saffers have. At the moment I would say Brussow is teh better player.

Give Warburton a couple of years and he will be(if he stays injury free) the defining openside of his generation on the world stage. Yes Sam has the potential to be that good.

Whilst I hate to agree with Andy Howells this Welsh team is going to be much much better in 2015 than this time around.

If we play as we have in the warm ups against SA we will loose. We can't rely on a good defence and the odd break. We need far more ball and our pack will have to raise their game considerably against SA to get enough opportunities to convert. It's possible - but SA will be favourites.

i justthink while this is the youngest most dynamic back row wales have had in years they are not in the same league in a ball carrying compacity of the boks back row, it think spies broussow and co will get more yards than our trio....

The Boks will play a conservative game they are quite happy to take 3 at
a time.Keep Penalties to a minimum,take every point you can getand Wales have a chance.
Let Morne Steyn get chances to kick Goals and its all over bar the shouting.

The welsh backrow looks good but Spies, Alberts, Johnson etc are just streets ahead in terms of ball carrying.

Surely the issue is will SA just go out and try to injure Adam Jones and Sam Warbuton from the kick off? I hope not.

I see this current Wales team being quite similar to Ireland (when they were good about 2 years ago!). I can't see many or any tries being scored in this game, both have the big ball carriers but each team have a good defence. In the backs, I think Wales just edge it but SA are definitely better up front. The Boks will get most of the posession because of their far superior lineout and with that posession they should use it better than our previous two opponents. Scrums can go either way throughout the match but for once I think we can compete with them at the breakdown. Bradley is our biggest guy he really needs to front up in this game and hit the opposition forwards hard.

Back row:
6. Lydiate 7. Warburton 8. Jones/Faletau or Powell - I don't know who will start.

What is SA's likely to be?

nottins if SA are going to dominate lineout and scrum please tell me how we can win?

Did I say we could win? I didn't say they would dominate the scrum either; I think we can dominate the scrum until (if) SA bring on fresh legs. Much better front row options on their bench. I've commented elsewhere that I think Wales will not win.

apologies i read 'wales just edge it' and didnt read the 'in the backs'

I agree with Lydiate being underestimated, he has an extremely high work rate making plenty of tackles and is a pretty decent ball carrier but Warburton is something special! on the whole though SA have the obvious edge in the back row but its all about what happens on the day.

One thing that makes the new generation backrow standout is just their hunger to play and improve, an impression I havent gotten from the previous backrow players for a while. I think Lydiate/Warburton/Faletau will be here for a while.

Its actually pretty incredible how many names on that team no one would have even considered this time last year.

Someone asked the likely bok backrow

6. Willem Alberts likely to start versus Wales while Schalk Burgers gets back to speed
7. Brussow
8.Pierre Spies

Bullsbok wrote:Someone asked the likely bok backrow

6. Willem Alberts likely to start versus Wales while Schalk Burgers gets back to speed
7. Brussow
8.Pierre Spies

I dont see Alberts being ahead of Lydiate in terms of his influence on the game. Sure he will carry for more yards - but I suspect he will make fewer tackles and turnovers too. Lydiate will just edge this one for me.

Brussow is a magician, something that was apparent to anyone watching him play before the SA management cottoned on. The battle with Warburton will be immense and I fancy Brussow to just come out on top this time around.

the number 8 battle? Depends who Wales play there........ Personally i would play Ryan Jones against Spies, and bring on Faletau after an hour. If Spies can be kept quietish for an hour, and then made to think a bit defensively, I think Wales can edge the back row battle.

Alberts doesnt make turnovers . He;s a battering ram going forward and a battering ram driving the opposition backwards. Lydiate is more dynamic but Alberts is more likely to make linebreaks and put the boks on the front foot

as for Spies ,the only way to counter Spies would be for Powell to start , he's got pace and mongrel. Otherwise Spies has had confidence these last two games and he's starting his trademark rampaging runs again .But if Powell starts he might edge it

Brussow is quality but so is warburton, imo the best bok back rower of all is smith and he will be a huge miss so will burger.

Alberts and spies are quality with ball in hand but do they like to do the hard work?

wales will give as good as they get imo

Alberts does the hardwork not so much Spies. Oh and lets not forget the incredible Schalk who will be coming on for alberts around the 50th min predictably .


Main difference between Brussow and Warbuton is that Brussow is an out and out fetcher while Warbuton is more complete. Warbuton is a better flanker but no where near as good as Brussow when it comes to fetching

Spies has played against Wales and I have yet to see what the fuss is all about.Tidy player but....
I hope PdV and SA underestimate our backrow who are pretty damn good.
Warbs and Lydiate are like Ham and egg.Toby is the mushroom that just adds that bit of magic!Lovely.
Broussow is top drawer whilst Schalk should have received a life ban and should not be allowed on any Rugby pitch.Horrible individual of whom I would be embarrased to represent me and my country.

Me thinks there are a number of you thinking too much.

There is one aspect you aren't even considering in the debate you have going here, and that is south africa breeds loose forwards similar to what a sea turtle lays eggs.

The mere fact that we have Juan Smith at home, Schalk Burger who might not be ready, Duane Vermeulen injured at home and are still fronting up a world class trio, should make you realise all this talking up of the Welsh trio will all be resolved in a few weeks.

I have heard so many negatives regarding Pierre Spies it is becoming repetitive, under estimate him at your own peril. Thinking Willem Alberts can't do the hard grunt work is simply ignorant and Heinrich Brussow is the quintessential pilferer. Between the three of them you have a balance of speed, physical grunt and the ultimate poacher, to get through there defences will take something very special, and to compete on the ground for the ball will be one of the toughest challenges the Welsh trio will face.

The question of whether the Welsh trio will compete with the Sa trio is not that simple, because now you also have to consider Bismarck du Plessis widely recognised as the best hooker in world rugby, himself not only being a very mobile and physical player in attack and defence but a master poacher himself, then just for good measure you can add Bakkies the "enforcer” who cleans rucks with the finesse and brutality you will remove a rusted bolt.

So the real question is not can Wales cope with our back three at the ruck, it is whether they can compete with those five Whislt Victor, Jannie and Beast waits impatiently to clear out anyone that's left.

Apologies for the speech, but these are the facts

Right it's perfectly fine for you to big your own players but how dare anybody dream of doing the same to the Welsh players.
And yes of course South Africa is a world class side when the players are on form but in all honesty I have not seen anything for a while now that would make me think that South Africa are streets ahead of Wales,
I don't think anybody is underestimating South Africa but you need to realise that Wales will not be a walkover your players will already be very aware of this fact.

When the players are on form???

i would bet on an off form Springbok side beating wales....like they did twice last year

Did they peak too soon?

Bullsbok wrote:When the players are on form???

i would bet on an off form Springbok side beating wales....like they did twice last year

Go to the bookies and place your bet

Of course Wales is not going to be a walkover, but do you know how many contradicting posts I have read over the last few months that goes something like "Of course SA is a world class side but have not shown anything that looks remotely like a team that is formidable” or ” South Africa is the most vulnerable of the tri nations teams and are definitely beatable, no reason to fear them.”

The fact is since our ” infamous, got the job not for rugby reasons” coach have been appointed, we have won 78% of our away tests in Europe and not lost one at home against any of them. As vulnerable as everyone believes we are, there was one vital ingredient missing since the Lions series and the tri nations of 2009, and that was desire, hunger and the want to win.

Very few recognise that fact, and on Saturday I saw that for the first time in two years. People are entitled to believe whatever they want, and to negate that vital factor is ignorant.

I know Wales will be motivated and hungry come world cup, but don't think for one moment you will see a lacklustre bok team.

As long as our boys have the same number of eyeballs when they leave the pitch I'll be happy.

When Wales see that SA turned over NZ 29 times last weekend they'll realise its not just the backrow they have to worry about... its their entire pack.

Bismaarck & Bakkies are dogs of war at the breakdown... Brussow gets the credit but in reality its because he has such players clearing the path for him to snatch any available ball.

Wales will have to counter the boks as a unit. If Warburton is going to succeed he will have to be helped out by players such as AW Jones upping his game to what those in the NH has been waiting him to reach to.

I wouldn't pick Powell either... he goes on these big runs and often gets isolated.... this is what SA want as they will round on him like a pack of wolves when he hits the ground.

fa0019 wrote:
I wouldn't pick Powell either... he goes on these big runs and often gets isolated.... this is what SA want as they will round on him like a pack of wolves when he hits the ground.

Powell is who i'd pick , its up to the other players to step up and support him not him benching coz he makes linebreaks. If Gatland is smart thats who he'll play not the Afro guy or Ryan Jones, especially not Ryan jones

Ryan is second row cover.He is too slow for back row.

Bullsbok wrote:

fa0019 wrote:
I wouldn't pick Powell either... he goes on these big runs and often gets isolated.... this is what SA want as they will round on him like a pack of wolves when he hits the ground.

Powell is who i'd pick , its up to the other players to step up and support him not him benching coz he makes linebreaks. If Gatland is smart thats who he'll play not the Afro guy or Ryan Jones, especially not Ryan jones

It is up to him to stay on his feet and not get turned over in contact, which does happen often. Even when support arrives, his body position is often such that theres is no way the ball is coming back on our side. I like the fact he add's dynamism to the backrow (Ryan Jones doesn't even know what that word means), but he's very hit or miss. I'd like to see us stick with Falatau, he's decision making will get better as International experience goes on, and is our best option right now.

Bullsbok wrote:

fa0019 wrote:
I wouldn't pick Powell either... he goes on these big runs and often gets isolated.... this is what SA want as they will round on him like a pack of wolves when he hits the ground.

Powell is who i'd pick , its up to the other players to step up and support him not him benching coz he makes linebreaks. If Gatland is smart thats who he'll play not the Afro guy or Ryan Jones, especially not Ryan jones

Bullsbok...not the Afro guy...have some respect fella. his name is Toby Faletau

my mistake the name was eluding me

Wales face a huge forward battle but i genuinely feel that if they can compete up front they have the backs to make this a much more competitive game than recent meetings.

I am not sure AP is right for the game, he does get isolated, too often loses the ball in contact and has discipline issues...Bakkies will push his buttons all day. Wales cannot afford to compete on SA terms at the breakdown and i expect us to revert to as much offload as possible.

But AP's volatility is exactly what we need to front up to SA pack. I wish we had some truly abrasive forwards, AWJ threatens to be but rarely is. AJ, BD and DL are all hugely physical but SA just won't be intimidated up front. Ryan is just too nice and is always smiling. I am thinking along the lines of Vickery and Thompson, even Jonners; players that would get in the SA faces and be a Thorn in their sides. I think Faletau will play and i expect Wales to counter SA commitment to the breakdown with getting quick ball as wide as possible early on. Wales will be hoping Warburton has the biggest game of his career; make no mistake this guy, at 22, is going to be World class. Wales must commit as few players as possible to defensive breakdowns and as many as possible in possession.

gethin and rees are two solid forwards who have fronted up theyr are a huge miss for wales.

Our scrum with adam is solid enough however our line out is shaky and matfield is the best in the business at stealing line out ball.

I'm hopeful that if north roberts and hook get ball they can trouble the boks back line,

it's all down to the forwards

(late knocks to botha and matfield causing them to miss out would help to)

i'm hoping jean and jaque start firing offensively. defense they're rock solid but lacking in attack as a combo not individualy

Shaky?! Wish it was just shaky. I can think of another word. our lineout makes my toes curl....worried i might pick Charteris to secure our own ball. Just don't think tight 5 will dominate. We will seriously miss our Lions front row. No platform, no possession. but we have dealt with this before by defending the gain line and also committing few players to defensive breakdown.

Taffineastbourne wrote:Spies has played against Wales and I have yet to see what the fuss is all about.Tidy player but....
I hope PdV and SA underestimate our backrow who are pretty damn good.
Warbs and Lydiate are like Ham and egg.Toby is the mushroom that just adds that bit of magic!Lovely.
Broussow is top drawer whilst Schalk should have received a life ban and should not be allowed on any Rugby pitch.Horrible individual of whom I would be embarrased to represent me and my country.

When we last played SA Spies got MOTM. His work rate was incredible, the guy will be one of the Boks top tacklers I bet. You're probably thinking of the Spies from the Lions tour where they did well to shut him down. Stephen Jones tackled him every single time and he (and the restof the Boks) became devoid of ideas(3rd test). I think you're being a bit harsh on Schalk too; the one gouging incident aside he's a quality player and sportsman.

taffin , i didnt notice that part on Schalk / get over it !!! one red card offence doesnt mean he should get a life ban he's paid his dues for that incident . What a disrespectful comment regarding one of the best loosies in the world . You dont know the individual you know the rugby player get over yourself

Biltongbek you make some very very good points. South Africa has such depth in the backrow, its stupid.
I'd start Andy Powell, in his last two outings he's been getting his hands dirty, and when fired up (as I'm sure he will be) to win that starting jersey he can be incredible.

Taffineastbourne wrote:
Schalk should have received a life ban and should not be allowed on any Rugby pitch.Horrible individual of whom I would be embarrased to represent me and my country.

This is getting so old, its becoming Hilarious. If Schalk Burger had the intention to take (was it luke Fitsgerald) eye out intentionally, he would have caused more damage than mere scratches. Burger has been a marked man by referees from all over since his debut, like the incident in our opening match where the replay clearly shows he is arial and contesting a ball. But yet he copped a ban for it and missed the other pool matches.

He is a hard uncompromising player who was perhaps overzealous earlier in his career, but has never intentionally injured any player.

If that is your view, then sadly my friend you are just another one of those incapable of allowing any human being a fair shout.

Perhaps a good thing you are not a South African supporter, because being a south african supporter requires a good deal more guts when you don't only have to bear the dirty play against your own players, but interference from politicians et all.

nottins_jones wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:Spies has played against Wales and I have yet to see what the fuss is all about.Tidy player but....
I hope PdV and SA underestimate our backrow who are pretty damn good.
Warbs and Lydiate are like Ham and egg.Toby is the mushroom that just adds that bit of magic!Lovely.
Broussow is top drawer whilst Schalk should have received a life ban and should not be allowed on any Rugby pitch.Horrible individual of whom I would be embarrased to represent me and my country.

When we last played SA Spies got MOTM. His work rate was incredible, the guy will be one of the Boks top tacklers I bet. You're probably thinking of the Spies from the Lions tour where they did well to shut him down. Stephen Jones tackled him every single time and he (and the restof the Boks) became devoid of ideas(3rd test). I think you're being a bit harsh on Schalk too; the one gouging incident aside he's a quality player and sportsman.

I suppose everyone is allowed one gouging incident.Sorry,I was being unreasonably harsh.Hang on a minute,would I mind if my son was blinded by a thug on a Rugby pitch?Yes I damn well would.GET REAL!

I was no more than 10 yards from him when he did it. It didn't get a red card did it Bullsbok and despite the decent ban i think that is why people still feel he is a dirty player. He just isn't though is he, he is an all time great bok back row. BUT....I personally think any player, whoever he is and whatever his rep, who goes near the eyes is the worst kind of player and should get at least a season ban...i can understand why people feel so strongly and it is a shame for him that his undoubted class is sullied by an uncharacteristic gouge

biltongbek wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:
Schalk should have received a life ban and should not be allowed on any Rugby pitch.Horrible individual of whom I would be embarrased to represent me and my country.

This is getting so old, its becoming Hilarious. If Schalk Burger had the intention to take (was it luke Fitsgerald) eye out intentionally, he would have caused more damage than mere scratches. Burger has been a marked man by referees from all over since his debut, like the incident in our opening match where the replay clearly shows he is arial and contesting a ball. But yet he copped a ban for it and missed the other pool matches.

He is a hard uncompromising player who was perhaps overzealous earlier in his career, but has never intentionally injured any player.

If that is your view, then sadly my friend you are just another one of those incapable of allowing any human being a fair shout.

Perhaps a good thing you are not a South African supporter, because being a south african supporter requires a good deal more guts when you don't only have to bear the dirty play against your own players, but interference from politicians et all.

I think that if I could understand what you were saying I would probably disagree.Someone's "overzealous" is another man's thug.

it was a mistake get over yourselves . typical NH behaviour goin on and on about it . i now know how Nzers felt when they had to listen to the BoD tackle stories for years. i suppose you dont hold the same view about BoD gouing and pulling Hensons hair?? Let me guess you probably forgot bout that

Bullsbok wrote:it was a mistake get over yourselves . typical NH behaviour goin on and on about it . i now know how Nzers felt when they had to listen to the BoD tackle stories for years. i suppose you dont hold the same view about BoD gouing and pulling Hensons hair?? Let me guess you probably forgot bout that

I am completely over it, the issue is not Burger but gouging and i totally hold the same view, as stated, about players who gouge. If caught, ban.

The extent of the ban should be commensurate with the extent of the injury. A UK amateur player was recently blinded so I think that would justifiably warrant a life ban.

Nope.I remember.Your point is?

Bullsbok there is no defence for gouging it does not matter what country the guy is from in my opinion that player is just a coward.

Taffineastbourne wrote:I suppose everyone is allowed one gouging incident.Sorry,I was being unreasonably harsh.Hang on a minute,would I mind if my son was blinded by a thug on a Rugby pitch?Yes I damn well would.GET REAL!

True you are being harsh on Schalk, he's a good player. His commitment to playing rugby has always been second-to-none which you can tell by the way he always puts his body on the line and how he's always first to the breakdown. I didn't excuse the gouging incident so not sure why you think I did. I just pointed it out because that's the only incident of foul play I can remember him commiting. The victim was nowhere near blinded; I don't condone any foul play but I don't go around moaning about it all the time either.

Now do us all (and most of all yourself) a favour and pipe down.