Which player has your nation missed the most since he retired?

Even though I am a daffodil snniffer I want to talk about England. For me, they are the rugby nation that has suffered the greatest from the retirement of one player.

WILL GREENWOOD.

Their midfield has suffered no end without him & I have yet to see a player who can be as good as he was or bring out the best in Tindall. Many players have come and gone in the 12/13 channel over recent years but many have failed to excite or live up to expectation. I am excited to see more of Manu Tuilagilagigigiali, but I fear he will be mainly used for his bulk rather than overall talent. I also think that at some stage Wilkinson & Flood will start in the same backline to try and bring some creativity into it. I wouldn't know who to play where as neither Flood or Wilko have had consistent time at 12 for a very long time.

I think something like this would be a good shot in midfield:

10. Flood
12. Wilko
13. Tuilagi

I would rather see Wilko at 12 as he can time the pass better than anyone.

Wales havent found an 8 since Quinnell although possibly Faletau could change that.

We havent had a world class lineout specialist since Bob Norster.

There are so many choices for England, certainly Greenwood would be the stand out one now simply because we have such woeful options. However, Martin Johnson would have to be in the list. No-one galvanises the pack like he did and his utter determination to win was irreplaceable.

No poll Krusty?

I would add Lawrence Dallaglio to that list

We need a dynamic hardnut of an 8

krusty wrote:Even though I am a daffodil snniffer I want to talk about England. For me, they are the rugby nation that has suffered the greatest from the retirement of one player.

WILL GREENWOOD.

Their midfield has suffered no end without him & I have yet to see a player who can be as good as he was or bring out the best in Tindall. Many players have come and gone in the 12/13 channel over recent years but many have failed to excite or live up to expectation. I am excited to see more of Manu Tuilagilagigigiali, but I fear he will be mainly used for his bulk rather than overall talent. I also think that at some stage Wilkinson & Flood will start in the same backline to try and bring some creativity into it. I wouldn't know who to play where as neither Flood or Wilko have had consistent time at 12 for a very long time.

I think something like this would be a good shot in midfield:

10. Flood
12. Wilko
13. Tuilagi

I would rather see Wilko at 12 as he can time the pass better than anyone.

Totally agree ref Greenwood.....that was great balance, like Guscott and Carling.

Really don't see the point of playing Wilks at 12, he has zero pace and is never going to get over the gain line on the carry, will probably invite huge blitzes on the 10/12 channel. Defences will know exactly that england's plan of attack will be....kick into the gap or Tuilagi on the crash ball. Fair enough it might spread the point of attack and give width to what is otherwise a totally blunt instrument, which may give more opportunities to the back 3, but Manu will still take the crash ball only in a bit more space.

For me itas to be Jason Robinson, his ability to step off either foot and just blow the one infront of him out of the way.

Would be either Richard Hill or Will Greenwood. Robinson and Johnson were awesome but we're reasonably well served in their positions right now. The breakdown and the midfield have been a mess though.

I think Greenwood is one of if not the best English player of all time.

Probably

15 Josh Lewsey
14 Jason Robinson
12 Will Greenwood
9 Matt Dawson
8 Lawrence Dallaglio
7 Neil Back
6 Richard Hill
4 Martin Johnson (c)
3 Phil Vickery
1 Trevor Woodman

Currently Bledyn Williams, the finest Outside center ever to play the game.

We could really do with a fit young BW for this World Cup

3-way tie for Ireland with our old front row of Clohessy-Wood-Popplewell.

JPR and Gareth would be handy.

The one player who i have not missed since he retired from rugby union is Gareth Thomas.

Now i have nothing against him personaly, but every time he scored a try and he ran behind the post "TAPPING HIMSELF ON THE HEAD" ..Yes he realy got to me.

I'll give you two injured players we are going to miss at this world cup.

Juan smith
Andries Bekker.

We haven't had anyone come near Bob Norster (Wyatt could have been if he didn't like the beer to much).

Not had a hooker anywhere near Garin Jenkins' standard.

Until A Jones finally got it together we didn't have a T/Head since Stuart Evans and like mentioned an No8 since SQ

Henry Honiball , what a flyhalf ! he'd be perfect with the current big bok centers we have today plus Joost at Scrumhalf ( Though i thnk Fdp is better )

Yes centers do tend to be big these days both ours are 16 stone plus.

The back row of Hill,Back and Dayglo for me there would be no trouble at the breakdown now and of course cant forget Greenwood .

I really miss Mike Gibson, he was a superstar for the Irish.

perand,

As good as they were (and they were) I still think a combo Winterbottom,Richards and Teague would have to be the better combo. With Skinner thrown in as well.

Some player from other countries i have missed are :

Joost v\d Westhuizen
Scott Gibbs
Scot Quinell
Andrew Merhtens
John Kirwen
Tim Horan
Gregor Townsend
Lawrence Dalaglio

Keith Gleeson was a cracking openside for us.

bedfordwelsh wrote:perand,

As good as they were (and they were) I still think a combo Winterbottom,Richards and Teague would have to be the better combo. With Skinner thrown in as well.

Could you imagine how good they would be with todays fitness and training. Now that would be an awesome backrow.

For Wales probably Scott Quinell we have never replaced him, Ryan Jones just wasn't in his league.

What happened to RJ......2005 he was on fire, went out to the Lions and then he seemed to lose his pace and just went right off the boil...was it Captaincy? Now he is back to a shadow of his best, solid reliable but never seems to make much ground ball in hand

Definitely Will Greenwood. I think Twelvetrees reminds me a bit of Greenwood, I think he's class and that's why he's been fast-tracked into the Saxons. Could all still go south for him, but hopefully he'll end up filling a gap that Greenwood left and hasn't really been filled.

not yet but come post world cup- the one man, one foot 0 legend- SHANE WILLIAMS will be missed, although halfpenny and north are both class and potentially WC there is only one shane

I think the areas that we in NZ have not been able to replace are hooker and half back.
McCaw has adequately covered for Jones, Read better than Soaialo who was not as good as Brook. Carter has managed to cover Merthens etc etc

But I don't think we've had anyone nearly as good as Sean Fitzpatrick fior number 2.
Our halfbacks are average compared to Marshall who wasn't as good as Bachop

ngan

Well, you have to give the rest of the world a little chance - having world beaters in all 15 positions would be unfair.

For England, obviously Greenwood has not been adequately replaced, but the other guy we really miss in Neil Back - a genuine, grub around on the floor and break as many laws as possible without being caught, open side. Yes, Hill was probably THE best player in that team, but it's really the little guy's breakdown skills that have not been replaced.

Wales - Foo Quinnell is a good call, he was some player and you haven't had a number 8 of similar power and intelligence since.

Scotland - Craig Chalmers and before that Rutherford. Quality outside halfs who could do all of run, pass and kick. Now you have desperate Dan, who isn't even that good at the kicking side of the game.

Ireland - As you have probably your best side of my recollection, it's hard to identify anyone from the relatively recent past that would improve matters. Who ws your last really good scrum half though?

France - Bernard Laporte as coach. Given the current player resources, I'm sure he'd have got more out of them than Lievremont has.

Wales - Michael Owen

eirebilly wrote:Some player from other countries i have missed are :

Joost v\d Westhuizen
Scott Gibbs
Scot Quinell

Andrew Merhtens........really? he's been replaced by the best player of all-time

John Kirwen
Tim Horan
Gregor Townsend
Lawrence Dalaglio

J Eales
C Lamaison

For England, obviously Greenwood has not been adequately replaced, but the other guy we really miss in Neil Back - a genuine, grub around on the floor and break as many laws as possible without being caught, open side. Yes, Hill was probably THE best player in that team, but it's really the little guy's breakdown skills that have not been replaced.

Look at Brussow, awesome talent on the international scene and exactly what England are missing from their backrow. Backie offered exactly the same but a far more scheming mind.

dummy_half wrote:ngan


Ireland - As you have probably your best side of my recollection, it's hard to identify anyone from the relatively recent past that would improve matters. Who ws your last really good scrum half though?

Going back a while now! Fergus Slattery;
During his career Slattery earned 61 caps, 18 as captain, and scored 3 tries. In 1971, he was a member of the British and Irish Lions squad that toured New Zealand, but he did not play in the Test matches.[1] He played for the Barbarians in the famous 1973 game against the All Blacks in Cardiff. Slattery toured with the Lions again in 1974, playing in all four Tests and captaining the side for two provincial matches. He was captain of the most successful Irish touring side ever in 1979 which won 7 of the 8 matches in Australia including the two Tests in Brisbane and Sydney. In addition to the above honours, he was a member of the Irish Triple Crown-winning team in 1982.

Who we have missed most.... I will answer it as who I would most like in the team now.
Simon Geoghegan on the left wing. He was class then with no ball - imagine him now !

Hurley
I'm sure you've had more recent players than Slattery or Gibson that would improve your side. As I said, a top notch scrum half would be the obvious one, and thinking about it, Keith Wood would be another.

Flannery is a decent hooker when he's interested in playing rather than being a dirty little barsteward, but the angry potato was one of my all-time favourite players from another country, and would be great in amongst the solidity of the rest of the Irish team.

Dummy-Half - I agree but we have never been a nation for churning out World class number 9s. Had to go back in time a bit for that one.
Keith Wood is a definite one alright - can't argue with that. An inspirational leader also.
Paul Wallace at prop would be welcomed back with open arms.

kingjohn7 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Some player from other countries i have missed are :

Joost v\d Westhuizen
Scott Gibbs
Scot Quinell

Andrew Merhtens........really? he's been replaced by the best player of all-time

John Kirwen
Tim Horan
Gregor Townsend
Lawrence Dalaglio

J Eales
C Lamaison

I forgot Eales, to me he is the most complete rugby player ever.

Yes Merhtens, to me he was one of the most exciting players i have ever seen. I loved watching him play.

Eirebilly - you mean 'nobody' !
He was phenomenal alright.

Merhtens is so easily forgotton these days but he was simply sublime back in the day.

What about NZ ?
Would you swop your current back three for Lomu, Cullen & Wilson? AWESOME !

Good call on Eales - probably one of the best 5 players in history and definitely the possessor of the finest nickname in rugby.

Hurley

I think every team in history would not only swop their back 3 for Cullen Lomu and Wilson, but would sell their souls to Beelzebub for the privelege.

Of course the only exception was the NZ coaches, who decided for some reason that Cullen would be better in the centre.

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:What about NZ ?
Would you swop your current back three for Lomu, Cullen & Wilson? AWESOME !

They were, but to be honest the biggest gaps in NZ are at hooker since Fitzpatrick and halfback since Graeme Bachop.

Kiwireddevil wrote:

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:What about NZ ?
Would you swop your current back three for Lomu, Cullen & Wilson? AWESOME !

They were, but to be honest the biggest gaps in NZ are at hooker since Fitzpatrick and halfback since Graeme Bachop.

You serious about Bachop? I remember his brother Stephen coaching us in school for a stint. Nice chap.

The Ella brothers should get a mention as well as they were brilliant for the Aussies back in the day

Simon Geoghegan was quality for Ireland. loved seeing that guy play.

Every time he got the ball the crowd noise rose a few notches.

Loved listning to Bill McLaren describing what he was like when he had ball in hand, a personal favourite was.

"He's like a mad tsetse fly when runs".

McLaren is missed big time.

Bob Ackerman!!

Very hard to say with Ireland. Keith Wood was an amazing player, fantastic leader and won World Player of the Year. However he couldn't throw into the lineout. Jerry Flannery made our lineout a real weapon.

Peter Clohessy was a devastating enforcer. But he'd spend more time cited than playing nowadays like Bakkies Botha.

I think that the pairing of Hayes and Easterby both made the Irish lineout that bit better. Ross and Ferris/O'Brien are nowhere near as good in that regard. They have other skills though.

Trevor Brennan Rugby Tour wrote:Very hard to say with Ireland. Keith Wood was an amazing player, fantastic leader and won World Player of the Year. However he couldn't throw into the lineout. Jerry Flannery made our lineout a real weapon.

Peter Clohessy was a devastating enforcer. But he'd spend more time cited than playing nowadays like Bakkies Botha.

I think that the pairing of Hayes and Easterby both made the Irish lineout that bit better. Ross and Ferris/O'Brien are nowhere near as good in that regard. They have other skills though.

Surely you would say The Barnhall Bruiser himself ???