NH game breakers

Todays' Ireland/England match was the most watchable of the WC warm-up mtaches but comparing it to the 3N match today, what struck me is the lack of game breakers in the NH. We tend to blame claggy pitches etc for this but given that all the warm-up matches have taken place during an admittedly wet summer, we can't fall back on this excuse.
We just don't have a Genia, Samo, Conrad Smith etc. who can turn the game with a bit of magic and perhaps run the length of the pitch. I might have to put my hand in a foodblender after writing this but, beyond Trimble and Bowe, the only person i can think of is .....oh god, i hate myself for saying this..... Shane Williams.
Do the NH teams really have enough firepower to win the WC? There is a limit to the number of times you can grind out tries by picking and going 10 times and I just worry that NH will get outscored because we can't score quickly enough.

shane,george north and hook.

Youngs, Tuilagi, Ashton and Foden would be ours, but that doesn't mean I think they're as good as their SH equivalents

And strangely they all play for wales.

Tomathy - Ooops, I will give you Foden. Good shout, sir.
Biltong - you aren't getting cynical and starting to believe in conspiracy theories are you? Oh dear. I expect better from you.
By the way, what is biltong? There is a SA butcher-shop just along the road from my house (a 5 minute walk going out of town from Murrayfield if your are ever up here) and they advertise it in their window but I have never knowingly seen it let alone tried it.

It's dried cured beef. I bought some the other day. nice it was.

I think there are game breakers in the NH but we don't have the instinct for support that SH players do. when a player makes a break we half expect them to be able to finish it. Scotland are so frustrating to watch for just that reason.

it's telling that when Ashton started running supporting lines he was said to be rewriting the wing book but he was only doing something that SH players have been doing for 100 years...

Ashton ran the length of the pitch to score against Australia

Fair point, mckay, about the support. Scotland had a brilliant season in 1999 when Alan Tait ran "rugby league lines" and John Leslie and Gregor Townsend were savvy enough to know where to be to support him.

PS you do us fat too much credit when you say Scotland are frustrating to watch for just ONE reason!!!!

mr-bryns-attitude wrote:shane,george north and hook.

These are my choices also!

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Ashton ran the length of the pitch to score against Australia

and it was a good effort! but wingers do tend to score length of the field tries often,don't get carried away.

to the OP - I've never really seen Conrad Smith as being a huge game changer for the all blacks, but more as someone who is just disgustingly (for a opposition fan) solid in every area of his game.

tomathy wrote:to the OP - I've never really seen Conrad Smith as being a huge game changer for the all blacks, but more as someone who is just disgustingly (for a opposition fan) solid in every area of his game.

hes so puny, Arnold certainly wouldnt approve.

mr-bryns-attitude wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Ashton ran the length of the pitch to score against Australia

and it was a good effort! but wingers do tend to score length of the field tries often,don't get carried away.

Not getting carried away but he knows how to run straight as opposed to sideways like ickle Shane.

Wales -
Shane Williams (soon to retire)
James Hook
and possible, Gavin Henson and George North


Ireland

Brian O'Driscoll (soon to retire)
SOB/Heaslip - The backrow really.
O'Gara - Precision kicking
Jonny Sexton

Scotland

Max Evans to some extent


England

Wilkinson, for his positional kicking
....ummm

If were talking game changers of the highest class, then I would go for...

NH: Shane Williams, Brian O'Driscoll

SH: Dan Carter, Kurtley Beale, Quade Cooper, Will Genia, Mils Muliaina

Draigoch wrote:If were talking game changers of the highest class, then I would go for...

NH: Shane Williams, Brian O'Driscoll

SH: Dan Carter, Kurtley Beale, Quade Cooper, Will Genia, Mils Muliaina

Not sure about Beale yet, but a team incluing all those players would be insane.

it would be a backline of destruction, one thing i like though looking at that backline is no S.A (not that i have anything against S.A) its just nice to see a welsh player in it and no S.A considering the wc- i am trying to look for positives ok!

wales606 wrote:

Draigoch wrote:If were talking game changers of the highest class, then I would go for...

NH: Shane Williams, Brian O'Driscoll

SH: Dan Carter, Kurtley Beale, Quade Cooper, Will Genia, Mils Muliaina

Not sure about Beale yet, but a team incluing all those players would be insane.

I am.

He's a definite game changer. If only he'd pass the ball more to supporting runners. He tries to do too much on his own.

If a game breaker is a player who crabs, goes into contact and gets regularly turned over, losing possession......Shane Williams is No1 in the NH

Sgt_Pooly wrote:If a game breaker is a player who crabs, goes into contact and gets regularly turned over, losing possession......Shane Williams is No1 in the NH

yes shane is No1 in the NH for the amount of international tries scored,51 to date,plus a few for the lions,making him the third highest try scorer of all time,not to shabby for someone who crabs sideways eh!

He used to be a very good player, at least 2 years past his best. Lomu was pretty handy too but I wouldn't list him as one of the best game breakers around today

ok he may have lost a yard of pace,but don't be surprised to see him add to his total in the world cup.
anyway time for bed.
good night
Nos da.

He has been struggling with injuries, but is still up there no doubt. See tries this season versus Irish and Toulon. If were talking about a player that can turn something out of nothing then there's no one better.

Two of my faves...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxh3utC4K_c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGvYjdMtaDY

love both of those tries. he may have his haters but one thing Shane can do is break a game up. I also think JD2 is a game breaker. he doesn't seem to have settled into international rugby yet but when he does...

wales...SW, GN and JH all can break a game...
Shane's try v ABs in 2008 is the greatest try of his career and frankly a joy to watch, beats 1 and turns 3 inside out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxh3utC4K_c

eng have theirs in CA and MT
Ire have BOD
Scot....mmmm

Gatts wrote:wales...SW, GN and JH all can break a game...
Shane's try v ABs in 2008 is the greatest try of his career and frankly a joy to watch, beats 1 and turns 3 inside out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxh3utC4K_c

eng have theirs in CA and MT
Ire have BOD
Scot....mmmm

SA not NZ

Also, MT - Mike Tindall? - Really? A gamebreaker?

I think its a bit early to call Tuilangi a gamebreaker...

Too early to call Manu T a game breaker but not George North ummmm

my mistake...i keep putting AB when i mean SA....i did credit GN though.

MT....nice but Tins, never in a million years but if you go with the defences win matches theory his contributions are up there. i disagree about manu, he just broke Wales and fact is although Ireland were already broken on Saturday he well and truly hammered it home.

He will tear Argentine line apart, likewise Scotland.

Talking about Manu Tuilagi as a game breaker reminds me about the match on Saturday. On one of his breakaways, he was caught by Geordon Murphy after a long chase down the length of the pitch. My man Geordon, who I truly admire, is about 59 years old. This means that Tuilagi might not have the wheels to sprint as quickly as we think. Or that my man Geordon should be starting for Ireland. Or both.

Tuilagi does change the midfield dynamic for England. More so than I expected at this stage of his career. And my man Geordon could really put a little extra life into the Ireland team.

Yeah that surprised me too but GM is so experienced he knew exactly when and where to tackle...MT is a big unit and his power is in the first 30 yards...then he tails off a bit but means he can still exploit gaps

I mean no offence by this, but if we call Tuilagi a gamebreaker then, well, we have to call a lot of people gamebreakers.

I guess what defines a gamebreaker? For me it's someone who turns a match on it's head by scoring against the run of play, or some similar act. Manu scored from good ball against bad defensive errors, which doesn't qualify him as a gamebreaker for me. Perhaps he'll prove to be one, but I've ye t to see it.

Game breakers means nothing without support, on their own they are useless.

Bryan Habana was a game breaker, he scored 30 tries in 35 tests under Jake white, since the introduction of Morne Steyn he scored 8 in 40 tests.

100% bilitong, it's a pity he couldn't keep up that kind of form. Do you think it's how the team's evolved then? or just himself?

It's interesting how some teams nearly rely on individual brilliance (Aus) and some work well as an unit (SA)

Dude I think you're being a little harsh to Morne.... would have known being a loyal lions man

Morne got his first cap in the 2nd lions test no?

Just looked and Habana played in 12 matches post RWC for SA before this game and scored 2 tries.... courtesy of ESPN.

Since the 2nd lions test he has scored 6 in 23.... which is near double his previous PDV SA scoring rate.

His game breaking days are well and truly over I believe, remember from 04-07 he mainly had Pretorius ( ) as pivot so I don't think it was the lack of opportunities which have failed him now, he was always a player who relied on pace to dominate, once it went so did his game.... in the past he made things happen... thats what all the greats did/do... but SA still have Fioure, Burger & Bismaarck so its not all bad.

Draigoch wrote:I mean no offence by this, but if we call Tuilagi a gamebreaker then, well, we have to call a lot of people gamebreakers.

I guess what defines a gamebreaker? For me it's someone who turns a match on it's head by scoring against the run of play, or some similar act. Manu scored from good ball against bad defensive errors, which doesn't qualify him as a gamebreaker for me. Perhaps he'll prove to be one, but I've ye t to see it.

Tuilagi ran from the half way line to score a try against Sarries beating about 5 players. Tigers lost that game so I guess they were up against it too.
Trust me he is a game breaker & G Murphy is predicting a 'massive WC ' for him. I hope so.

Habana reminds me a little of Cueto for England. He offers little in attack and over the last few years has really struggled to cross the whitewash.

What he does bring though is a huge work rate and a solid defensive game. SA need a finisher to counter the work of Habana as JP is very much a grafter too.

Don't under-estmate JP... he is a class operator.

He looks lazy, slow and technically poor most of the time but in the big games he really puts in the performances.

Aplon on the other wing offers a lot ... much in the mould of S. Williams, J. Robinson & C. Cullen. When you see what he does and then realises he weighs probably less than 12st its rather amazing... his tackling is surprisingly efficient too.

Is anybody as bored as I am with this 'my dad's bigger than your dad' stuff.

I think the point of the article I think was how few NH players have the ability to break the line and get in behind defences. Very few of those tbh.

Ashton doesn't deserve to be mentioned as a serious game changer. He doesn't create tries, he's not a phenomonal stepper/thinker, just a speed merchant (though that's nothign to be ashamed of). He was anonymous against Ireland, and after all the pundits' constant 'If Ashton was here....' comments previously I was glad to see him not do anything of note. Hugely over rated player, it's jsut he's the only decent winger England have got ina while. Foden and Youngs cna be game changers, more Foden than Youngs though, the scrummie needs time to develop, but he'll get there. As for all NH top game changers, I'd say Shane Williams, Evans, Richie Gray, BOD, Bowe, Hook, Adam Jones, Warburton, Ireland back row.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think the point of the article I think was how few NH players have the ability to break the line and get in behind defences. Very few of those tbh.

Shane and Hooky do it all the time