When will Floyd get his credit???

Beats Ortiz - younger guy, hadn't matured yet, Floyd is too much for him bla bla bla (baring in mind this is the same guy that in his last 2 fights beat two older guys and was accused of fighting people when they're over the hill)

Beats Pacquiao in 2012 - beat the smaller guy, waited for him to deteriorate bla bla bla

the man's never in a win win situation is he?

Regardless of what people say Mosley was a good win. Mosley had chances to fight Floyd earlier in his career and never fancied it. For me Floyd is just outside my top 20 ATGs and I regard him as one of the top 5 defensive of all time.

That's plenty credit.

About 2001.

The thing with Mayweather is that he makes it so easy for people to dislike him, be it via his sometimes vile outbursts towards fellow fighters, his no-risk style or his long spells of inactivity and perceived apathy towards taking certain fights. While he's certainly respected highly in terms of his skills and achievements, I do reckon that if he were a more humble and amiable character, more fight fans would be willing to fully acknowledge his greatness.

Sadly, if a fight with Pacquiao never materializes, it will leave him with a 'ducker' tag around his neck in the eyes of many critics, a tag which he just might never be able to shake off. I expect that if he does win the Ortiz and Pacquiao fights there will be a select few who still find fault, but I think ninety-odd percent would be wholesome in their praise for him, which his talent merits.

Without openig a can of worms why do you think Floyd will be regarded as a ducker and Manny won't. If you won't take a drug test for $30m their is something not right.

I wasn't stating my personal opinion there Kev, more the widespread opinion that many amongst the casuals will have. Ultimately, Mayweather is the one wanting to change the rules to suit him. Now let's remember that Mayweather has, time and again, reminded us all that Pacquiao gets too much credit for moving up through weights, as the fact that he turned professional three years younger than Mayweather gives a distorted view (both reportedly weighed 106 lb at sixteen, which was when Manny entered the paid ranks, whereas Mayweather waited until he was nineteen). Then, on the other hand, he's demanding Olympic-style drug testing as he apparently thinks that Pacquiao's metamorphosis through the weights can't be a natural and unaided achievement - make your mind up, Floyd!

And that's my point - for all the going back and forth, it's hard to deny that ultimately, Mayweather has put more stumbling blocks in the way of this fight happening than anyone else. Throw in the fact that he is, as I mentioned earlier, not always an easy character to like, and failure to fight Pacquiao will prove very harmful to his legacy.

I know you weren't putting your own views in mate I don't really want to open this can of worms but now D4 isn't around so we might be OK.

Like you said Manny's rise through the weights isn't much different to Floyds in terms of the age they were at each weight which should cool the juicing accusation.

It may be for his own gain but drug testing should be more stringent in the sport so his stance could be a good thing but he doesn't care about that. I tend to think neither has been that keen on the fight to this point which is the reason it hasn't happened.

Floyd returned from 'retirement' with the whole drug test thing but Manny refused the tests which I found strange.

He isn't very likeable which may hurt him now but apparently Sugar Ray Leonard wasn't liked although he did get the big fights.

I see what you mean, Kev; I wish that Pacquiao would have taken the test so that the fight could happen as much as the next man. But ultimately, Pacquiao certainly isn't obliged to bow to any such demand, and likewise Mayweather has absolutely no right to make such a demand, either. God knows where negotiations for that fight (if there are any at the moment) currently are, but for the most part it's been Mayweather's desire to introduce new rules only recognized by himself which have been the biggest spanner in the works.

I think Leonard's low level of popularity was more amongst his fellow professionals and those within the sport, rather than fight fans themselves, though it's a valid comparison you've made there mate.

Can't agree with that viewpoint personally Chris, maintain that it's Pacquiaos reluctance to take the tests which are preventing the fight from happening, Mayweather has as much right to ask for olympic style testing as Pacquiao does to try and enforce ridiculous catchweights. One is good for the sport while the other is a pathetic way of trying to gain an advantage, I do have a slightly biased view but for me there is only one person to blame and he isn't undefeated.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Can't agree with that viewpoint personally Chris, maintain that it's Pacquiaos reluctance to take the tests which are preventing the fight from happening, Mayweather has as much right to ask for olympic style testing as Pacquiao does to try and enforce ridiculous catchweights. One is good for the sport while the other is a pathetic way of trying to gain an advantage, I do have a slightly biased view but for me there is only one person to blame and he isn't undefeated.

You beat me to it.

Mayweather has a touch of Larry Holmes about him.....Big mouth, great skill and achievements and destined to be truelly missed and respected after he has gone...

Ducker label will disappear too as soon as he leaves. Problem Floyd has got is that he's basically self managed and hasn't got the Arum machine behind him to spread stories and conjecture which means he'll always lose in the PR stakes...

But like previously mentioned he's unbeaten and certainly never been owned like Manny against Marquez 1.....

Imagine how much easier Oscar would've been had he made him come in at 147....

Mayweather gets credit now from knowledgeable fans all the ducker types are just a waste of space..

Slightly disagree as have always felt he lost a clear decision to Castillo first time around but do feel he'll end up being rated far higher than Pacquiao based on his supreme talent much like Leonard, Pep and Jofre.

It was contentious but not a boxing lesson like the Marquez-Manny fight..or gift.

Sorry Ghosty, but how on earth can you say that Mayweather bears absolutely none of the blame for the fight not happening so far? Regardless of what catchweights Pacquiao has wanted in other bouts, he didn't ask for one in this case. Yes, he (reportedly) requested a certain ring size and glove type, but this as we all know is very standard stuff. It's Mayweather who has wanted to break the normal cycle of negotiations for this particular bout, not Pacquiao.

If it was against anyone other than Pacquiao I would be inclined to agree but I have very little sympathy for a man who insists on catchweights and other such nonsense, if he wanted the fight he would have made it happen but he can give it but he can't take it.

TRUSSMAN is this you?

I see both points...... Chris saying Mayweather has stalled this by asking for something that isn't usual for massive fights and he is right, without the blood test issue I believe we would've already saw this fight.

But also the other side by Ghosty - because what he is asking for is GOOD for the sport. Unlike catchweights which Manny is infamous for.

Mayweather is the GOAT

TAKE THE TEST PAC

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Can't agree with that viewpoint personally Chris, maintain that it's Pacquiaos reluctance to take the tests which are preventing the fight from happening, Mayweather has as much right to ask for olympic style testing as Pacquiao does to try and enforce ridiculous catchweights. One is good for the sport while the other is a pathetic way of trying to gain an advantage, I do have a slightly biased view but for me there is only one person to blame and he isn't undefeated.

I disagree Ghosty, Pacquaio hasn't mentioned a catchweight, and it is widely accepted that this fight would take place at 147, therefore the catchweight issue is a redundant one.

Floyd has no right to demand Olympic style testing, it is a simple as that. Whilst it is indirectly good for the sport to have the Olympic style testing become common place, nobody can tell me that Floyd is asking for it 'for the good of the sport'. His whole ploy has been to belittle Pacquaio, stall talks, pretty much avoid the fight, to date.

Fists of Fury wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Can't agree with that viewpoint personally Chris, maintain that it's Pacquiaos reluctance to take the tests which are preventing the fight from happening, Mayweather has as much right to ask for olympic style testing as Pacquiao does to try and enforce ridiculous catchweights. One is good for the sport while the other is a pathetic way of trying to gain an advantage, I do have a slightly biased view but for me there is only one person to blame and he isn't undefeated.

I disagree Ghosty, Pacquaio hasn't mentioned a catchweight, and it is widely accepted that this fight would take place at 147, therefore the catchweight issue is a redundant one.

Floyd has no right to demand Olympic style testing, it is a simple as that. Whilst it is indirectly good for the sport to have the Olympic style testing become common place, nobody can tell me that Floyd is asking for it 'for the good of the sport'. His whole ploy has been to belittle Pacquaio, stall talks, pretty much avoid the fight, to date.

The easy response though is to ask why, if Pacquiao has nothing to hide, does he not simply take the test? At first I thought he was right to refuse on moral grounds, but as time goes on I'm convinced each man is equally to blame. There's only so many times Pacquiao can churn out the old "it's not up to me to choose my opponents" rubbish.

Very true, Balti, I'm not saying he is free from blame, just fighting his corner a bit, that's all.

He was right to refuse on moral grounds, and is right to continue to do so, however he should certainly be pushing for it more, in my opinion. Make the public pressure on Floyd unbearable.

Thing is, the pressure is already on Mayweather to make the fight but the public I think are starting to feel that Mayweather's blood test demand isn't really that outlandish. The more opponents he fights who are willing to take the test, the more Pacquiao's refusal seems petty and self-serving. Added to this the manner in which Arum has been choosing Pacquiao's opponents and selling them to the public based on nothing but empty hyperbole, and I think the pressure is on both parties equally, but possibly swinging against Pacquiao.

Everyone in boxing seems to be of the opinion that drug testing should be more stringent in boxing. So with that being said would it not be good to have the 2 biggest stars of the sport on side with this.

Fists where is the moral high ground in refusing a drug test?
If Pac did the right thing and took the test it would let us know if Floyd really wanted the fight.

prettyboykev wrote:Everyone in boxing seems to be of the opinion that drug testing should be more stringent in boxing. So with that being said would it not be good to have the 2 biggest stars of the sport on side with this.

Fists where is the moral high ground in refusing a drug test?
If Pac did the right thing and took the test it would let us know if Floyd really wanted the fight.

The moral high ground is simply that Pacquiao is supposedly refusing to bow to the whim of his opponent. The blood tests aren't mandatory, and Pacquiao is using that fact to say to Floyd: "You're not the boss of me". It's ego and mind games, nothing more.

BALTIMORA wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:Everyone in boxing seems to be of the opinion that drug testing should be more stringent in boxing. So with that being said would it not be good to have the 2 biggest stars of the sport on side with this.

Fists where is the moral high ground in refusing a drug test?
If Pac did the right thing and took the test it would let us know if Floyd really wanted the fight.

The moral high ground is simply that Pacquiao is supposedly refusing to bow to the whim of his opponent. The blood tests aren't mandatory, and Pacquiao is using that fact to say to Floyd: "You're not the boss of me". It's ego and mind games, nothing more.

Maybe so but everyone knows that stiffer drug testing regulations would be good for boxing. Like I said it would be very good for the sport if the elite got on side with it. The more fighters Floyd fights who take the test the more it makes Manny look bad.
Who's he going to fight after Marquez?

I couldn't agree more Kev. While it started as a petty mind game Floyd's drug test demands aren't a bad thing. He's making all opponents take the test, and he's taking it himself. If Pacquiao were to stand up and say "I also think drug testing should he stricter", it'd do the sport a lot of good. As it is, it just seems like he's using the lax current testing regulations to hide something. As someone who originally wanted him to beat Floyd, it's really deflated my confidence in Pacquiao's innocence.

I want to believe he is innocent it would be terrible for the sport if he was found to be a cheat. Remember this is a guy who got voted fighter of the last decade. I would like to see him agree to it to see what Floyd would do. If the fight never happened then considering the money that's on offer it would destroy Floyds legacy.

the floyd pacquiao talks are not so different to the klitschko haye talks, both sets of fighters know that this is the biggest fight out there for them but are proud and don't want to give the other fighter an advantage whether it be venue, money split or testing.

we are told that the haye klitschko fight happened because haye gave in to klitschko's demands like ring walks, venue and money, so you'd think if manny gave in to floyd's demands floyd wouldn't duck and would make the fight. the difference though between this fight and haye klitschko is neither manny or floyd need that fight to secure a legacy, so it will be harder for either fighter to give in to the other's demands.

I think this is significantly different to the Haye Klitschko fight, because at the core of it lies the truth behind one of the biggest names in the sport. It's not that Pacquiao's legacy would be worse off for not making the fight. It's the fact that he could be hiding a secret which could cause HUGE damage to the sport.

Fists of Fury wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Can't agree with that viewpoint personally Chris, maintain that it's Pacquiaos reluctance to take the tests which are preventing the fight from happening, Mayweather has as much right to ask for olympic style testing as Pacquiao does to try and enforce ridiculous catchweights. One is good for the sport while the other is a pathetic way of trying to gain an advantage, I do have a slightly biased view but for me there is only one person to blame and he isn't undefeated.

I disagree Ghosty, Pacquaio hasn't mentioned a catchweight, and it is widely accepted that this fight would take place at 147, therefore the catchweight issue is a redundant one.

Floyd has no right to demand Olympic style testing, it is a simple as that. Whilst it is indirectly good for the sport to have the Olympic style testing become common place, nobody can tell me that Floyd is asking for it 'for the good of the sport'. His whole ploy has been to belittle Pacquaio, stall talks, pretty much avoid the fight, to date.

Point is he has won two titles at catchweights something I cannot abide, if he wishes to place stipulations like that in contracts thanks to uncle Bob or is it that Pacquiao is above stipulations?

Lets be serious here, Mayweather has openly said he wants the fight but Pacquiao doesn't, he apparently has nothing to hide so has no reason to reject the drug testing other than knowing he's not good enough to beat a great fighter at the full weight unstipulated against.

I hate to admit it...but I agree with everything Imperial Ghosty has said above