Two DRS zones for Monza

The FIA is to use two independent DRS zones for the first time at the forthcoming Italian Grand Prix.

At most venues this year there has been only one zone in which the overtaking device can be deployed during races, but in Montreal and Valencia two areas were set up.

At those events the two DRS zones were on consecutive straights, but with a single detection point allowing drivers to trigger their wing flap for both.

For Monza, DRS can be deployed both on the start/finish straight and between the second Lesmo and the Ascari chicane. The detection point for the first zone will be on the exit of the Parabolica, with the other between the Lesmos.

source: autosport

What's with the scrolling?

Forza v2 Formatting!
Forza Monza!

More boredom then anything

Also means people don't have to scroll don't the page so can pretend looking like their working

two drs zones to make overtaking even more bloody artficial.....great! gone from the sublime to the ridiculous f1!

I think the double DRS zone is going to kill somebody at monza

Open Rear Wing massive long straight is going to end badly.

thts what i mean about f1 and the effect drs is having. true hardcore f1 fans never complained about the lack of overtaking during the 10' season, however it was the casual fan who simply complained about the alonso/petrov situation that the FIA listened to. Overtaking in f1 - quantity up and quality down. Ok we saw the webber/ alonso overtake which was superb, however thats a one off. the fascinating battles for position that could last upto 10 laps has disappeared sadly and been replaced by a ludicrous, non-contested, unskilled and relatively boring manoeuvre. This is important to read. Button has the most overtakes this season (that tells you something about f1 and this drs) button usually struggled behind drivers in the midfield but drs and the fact hes in the mclaren has aided him immensely and made him look superb. with drs making a huge impact its hardly suprising that a mclaren can go from 19th to 3rd during a race. cos lets face it apart from the top 3 teams theres nothing special. really disappointed the way this season has turned out. basically everyones waiting for 2011 now.

Bonjourno!

Finally the best GP of the year has arrived! The Grand Prix for the people of Monza! This is where Fernando will lead a Ferrari home to victory!

Forza Alonso!

With the massive long straights at Monza, is the DRS needed? If a driver can't pull off an overtake on the straights in Monza he needs to quit this sport.

What a joke

what John said and what BofR has said. DRS is killing the sport, fck the casual fans (sorry) but why are we changing the sport to be more ridiculous for "fans" who only occassionally watch, if they were FANS they'd get more involved and learn about things in F1.

Anyone else tired of hearing Brundle say things like "for those of you new to F1 they have to use BOTH tyre compounds".. thinkgs like that grrr. Sure they should say it occassionally, but Brundle seems to say it every race now.. silly. Oh and john i thnk you mean 2012... dont you?

V good point about button too John, suddenly he's able to overtake and is a master. Strange that DRS came in at the same time, coincidence - lol speaks volumes for me. Before DRS he was stuck behind drivers for lap after lap.

I still stand by what i said before and that is scrap DRS and KERS, keep the tyres as they are - brilliant. Wish they'd also bring refuelling back in too, that added an extra angle for the race.

[quote="Critical_mass"]V good point about button too John, suddenly he's able to overtake and is a master. Strange that DRS came in at the same time, coincidence - lol speaks volumes for me. Before DRS he was stuck behind drivers for lap after lap.[quote]

Bonjourno!

Sounds like sour grapes to McLarens new Number 1 driver, Jenson Button MBE. I think you will find that most of his overtakes were outside of the DRS zone in Belgium. In fact going back to his overtake fest in Canada he was overtaking in all sorts of corners and not just the DRS zone. In case you may have forgotten, DRS can only be used in designated places on a track.

What with all the DNFs Hamilton has had this season I guess you may have noticed other drivers on the track that actually are more than capable of matching the one hit wonder 'Second Coming of Villeneuve!'

I think you will find that Jenson Button MBE has been overtaking other drivers without the aid of DRS and long, long, long before 2007.

Forza Alonso!

Not sour grapes at all, but i will speak up when someone makes a incredibly daft claim. I am indeed aware of when DRS can be used. Look at it this way, Jenson has only won this season in wet changable conditions, which granted he seems to cope with well. But at the same time only seems to do well when others are falling off the track.

Oh and Jenson overtaking prior to 2007 isnt a argument - he was in honda or BAR whoever and was overtaking cars at the back of the field.

[quote="Alessandro Ciambella"][quote="Critical_mass"]V good point about button too John, suddenly he's able to overtake and is a master. Strange that DRS came in at the same time, coincidence - lol speaks volumes for me. Before DRS he was stuck behind drivers for lap after lap.

Bonjourno!

Sounds like sour grapes to McLarens new Number 1 driver, Jenson Button MBE. I think you will find that most of his overtakes were outside of the DRS zone in Belgium. In fact going back to his overtake fest in Canada he was overtaking in all sorts of corners and not just the DRS zone. In case you may have forgotten, DRS can only be used in designated places on a track.

What with all the DNFs Hamilton has had this season I guess you may have noticed other drivers on the track that actually are more than capable of matching the one hit wonder 'Second Coming of Villeneuve!'

I think you will find that Jenson Button MBE has been overtaking other drivers without the aid of DRS and long, long, long before 2007.

Forza Alonso!

Alessando, Hamilton has had 2 DNFs this season, the same number with Button. It would be useful if you did some research prior to opening your mouth

@Alessandro Ciambella

I could say to you now, After Monza Button would not win a race till the end of the season.... Alonso would only win if the team radio Massa to get out of the way!!!

Critical_mass wrote:Not sour grapes at all, but i will speak up when someone makes a incredibly daft claim. I am indeed aware of when DRS can be used. Look at it this way, Jenson has only won this season in wet changable conditions, which granted he seems to cope with well. But at the same time only seems to do well when others are falling off the track.

Oh and Jenson overtaking prior to 2007 isnt a argument - he was in honda or BAR whoever and was overtaking cars at the back of the field.

As will I...speak up when someone makes an incredibly daft claim...

In case you didn't notice, it was dry at Spa on race day and Button was overtaking like he thought he was Lewis Hamilton.

Yes, he's incredibly finicky about his car set-up, but when he's happy with it, he'll race with the best of them.

I didnt claim anything, i said he's only won when its rained. Its was dry in Spa and he didnt win im just stating facts. Button has indeed improved his overtaking ability, but strangely that coincides with the introduction of DRS, coincidence?

John wrote:thts what i mean about f1 and the effect drs is having. true hardcore f1 fans never complained about the lack of overtaking during the 10' season, however it was the casual fan who simply complained about the alonso/petrov situation that the FIA listened to. Overtaking in f1 - quantity up and quality down. Ok we saw the webber/ alonso overtake which was superb, however thats a one off. the fascinating battles for position that could last upto 10 laps has disappeared sadly and been replaced by a ludicrous, non-contested, unskilled and relatively boring manoeuvre. This is important to read. Button has the most overtakes this season (that tells you something about f1 and this drs) button usually struggled behind drivers in the midfield but drs and the fact hes in the mclaren has aided him immensely and made him look superb. with drs making a huge impact its hardly suprising that a mclaren can go from 19th to 3rd during a race. cos lets face it apart from the top 3 teams theres nothing special. really disappointed the way this season has turned out. basically everyones waiting for 2011 now.

I think you'll find the fans had nothing to do with it. How often have the powers that be taken action because of fans' opinions?

I think you'll find the prime mover behind DRS was the Overtaking Working Group. If you've ever listened to drivers past interviews, they've said often enough how frustrated they were at being stuck behind slower cars.

If anything, the farcical situation of faster cars/drivers being stuck behind slower ones was artificial. Remember those complainst about turbulence created by aero devices making it impossible to follow cars closely without disrupting your own cars' stability, which led to greater tyre degradation, overheating etc.

While I won't claim its an ideal solution, DRS benefits everyone. Drivers no longer have to spend lap after lap stuck behind (marginally) slower rivals and the fans benefit from a more interesting spectacle.

Gone from one extreme to the other though thats the problem.

DRS is artificial and makes average drivers with a lack of overtaking ability look world class and it's only the delusional fans with no knowledge of f1 who think button is a worthy world champion because of his drives from the back of the grid to a podium finish this season. any driver from the top 3 teams in my opinion could start on the back row of the grid and finish top 6 with relative ease. the competition outside the top 3 teams is appaling and with DRS it makes overtaking in a red bull, mclaren or ferrari so easy - thts my issue with it. A top driver should be punished for a poor qualifying and that what it used to be b4 DRS.

Yup. Which just emphasises that qualifying is becoming less important. Why start 3rd on the grid when you can start 11th with a new set of tyres and finish the race in 3rd.

seriously i loved the 10' season it was a classic but this season in my opinion has really disappointed. DRS must go its embarrasing. its turned a potential race winning move or battle into a one straight, non-contested, unskillful and boring manouevre. There is absolutely no skill in using DRS and the driver defending has no chance of keeping their position and if they do try to defend they are seen as driving dangerously and are punished by the ridiculous stewardship this season. DRS along with the tyre situation has played entirely into the hand of jenson button is ridiculous. How he has been propelled from an average driver into a smooth, expert tyre management skilled world class champion of formula 1 still amazes me today. To an extent i'm glad BBC are losing f1 so i dont have to listen to brundle's hype on button.

John wrote:How he has been propelled from an average driver into a smooth, expert tyre management skilled world class champion of formula 1 still amazes me today.

Yup but the loyal Button fans (who i bet only turned button fans when he joined brawn or mclaren) wont see it like that. I agree though, he's always been average but since 2009 the rules have suited him pretty well. You could be fooled into thinking the rules have been designed around his driving style (pottering round)

John wrote:To an extent i'm glad BBC are losing f1 so i dont have to listen to brundle's/DC/BBC in general hype on button.

Glad im not the only one to have thought that. haha (you missed some off though, edited it for you), as well as all those button fans who wont pay for Sky.

Critical_mass wrote:DRS is artificial and makes average drivers with a lack of overtaking ability look world class and it's only the delusional fans with no knowledge of f1 who think button is a worthy world champion because of his drives from the back of the grid to a podium finish this season. any driver from the top 3 teams in my opinion could start on the back row of the grid and finish top 6 with relative ease. the competition outside the top 3 teams is appaling and with DRS it makes overtaking in a red bull, mclaren or ferrari so easy - thts my issue with it. A top driver should be punished for a poor qualifying and that what it used to be b4 DRS. .

I honestly believe Michael Schumacher would have got 2nd or 3rd in Canada but because of DRS Button and Webber cruised past him actually the DRS is like an amber light indicating that you could pass..... 2009 it was Diffuser, 2010 flexible wings, now in 2011 its DRS, KERS and Tyres what next? Probably you are not allowed to overtake Fernando AlonSLOW!!!

John wrote:To an extent i'm glad BBC are losing f1 so i dont have to listen to brundle's/DC/BBC in general hype on button.

still I don't think its the right move, hardly anyone knows any of the darts players in the PDC except Taylor, Barney and maybe Lewis. Rupert Murdoch again getting his way

Critical_mass wrote:

John wrote:How he has been propelled from an average driver into a smooth, expert tyre management skilled world class champion of formula 1 still amazes me today.

Yup but the loyal Button fans (who i bet only turned button fans when he joined brawn or mclaren) wont see it like that. I agree though, he's always been average but since 2009 the rules have suited him pretty well. You could be fooled into thinking the rules have been designed around his driving style (pottering round)

John wrote:To an extent i'm glad BBC are losing f1 so i dont have to listen to brundle's/DC/BBC in general hype on button.

Glad im not the only one to have thought that. haha (you missed some off though, edited it for you), as well as all those button fans who wont pay for Sky.

EPIC FAIL

Are you for real?

Have you actually followed Button's career at all? Let me refresh your memory.

He started with Williams in 2000 (who by the way last had a decent car in 1997) before joining Benetton/Renault prior to their title-winning years with Alonso. From 2003 (I think) until 2008 he was with BAR-Honda, perennial back-of-the-grid strugglers, but still managed to win his first race with them - albeit in a rain-affected race.

In a nutshell, 2009 was the first year Button had a title-winning car.

To refresh your memory again, one Senor Fernando Diaz (with 2 titles already under his belt) spent some time driving for Renault recently and looked nothing like the double world champion he is.

So give Button the credit he is due...currently performing on a par with a younger, more highly-rated team mate who is arguably the best racer (note I say "racer" not "driver") on the grid.

Omar - Im not sure why im said to have typed the bit you quoted, it wasnt me it was john. Read further up

Granted that was a little harsh BUT then you could argue, honda/brawn had alot more time to develop and implement bits on their 2009 car, giving them an advantage over the rest of the field for at least the first half of the season. If the top teams had developed their cars along with brawn then i bet the 2009 season would have been a different story, which infact did show to potentially be the case as brawns results dropped off the second part of the season, but by that point Button had too much of a lead.

my qoute 'How he has been propelled from an average driver into a smooth, expert tyre management skilled world class champion of formula 1 still amazes me today' - I 100% stand by this statement and i can assure you i have followed JB's entire career and prior to Brawn it was abysmal. Jenson Button completely landed in the jackpot seat and the luck that has come his way is astonishing. For him to get that seat and win tht title the way he did was a disgrace, to label him a worthy world champion with the likes of schumacher & senna etc is disgusting and belittles the title in my opinion. Jenson then suddenly finds himself world champion and remarkably the FIA decide to alter the rules and regs to perfectly suit jenson buttons driving style of saving and conserving tyres. f1 used to be about racing, however now its about conserving tyres. If these tyres rules had never been introduced alonso, hamilton, vettel would destroy button week in week out. the only way button is competition however is becuase of these tyres and when the rain appears. also a big point is that hamilton is racing in the wrong era. he is incredible driver, arguably the fastest but the tyres dont suit him. add in an uncompetitive car to red bull, hamilton takes more risks and results in far more crashes and incidents. this allows conservative driving (boring) jenson to sit back and wait to pounce on mistakes by others. truth.

Bonjourno!

So what you are saying is that Jenson Button MBE has adapted well to the new rules and is the master of the overtake and tyre manaegment!

Whilst he has evolved into Britains number 1 F1 driver (Fact! Look at the WDC league table), others have epic failled in expectation to deliver. One could say that they have choked!

By the way, 29% of all overtakes have occured in DRS zones this year according to the latest stats from Mercedes GP. Did you know 14% of Jenson Buttons overtakes have occured using DRS compared to 37% of Lewis Hamilton? Dont you all look foolish now! Good job DRS is here for one of the drivers eh!?

Forza drivers who dont need DRS to overtake as much as others!!

Forza Jenson Button MBE

Forza Alonso!

Yer but those stats are ridiculous because jenson button has for a number of races found himself at the back of the grid after a poor qualifying or when he has been at the back he has been incredibly lucky with safety cars bunching everyone up. He has then been able to overtake cars such as virgin, hispania, lotus, toro rosso all with ease and in zones which have no DRS thanks to the mclarens power advantage. Stats do not reveal the true story you should know that, especially in formula 1. If Lewis Hamilton found himself at the back of the grid (which he hasnt because he doesnt screw up qualifying or is generally slow unlike button) then he would have an abundance of overtakes like button has. Webber proved it in China, that coming through the field is extremely easy with the current lack of competition in f1 bar the top 3 teams. If DRS was not available, it is evidently clear that button would struggle immensely as he has throughout his career at overtaking. Hamilton is arguably the most aggressive and is generally the best overtaker in f1 currently, however with this attribute he is of course prone to colllisions. Button however just plods along in his boring, conservative style and just profits on other driver mistakes. If these pirelli tyres had not been introduced and a more durable racing tyres was chosen then button would no doubt be destroyed by the sheer pace of hamilton, vettel and alonso, especially in dry conditions. In conclusion button has basically found himself racing in formula 1 at a time which most suits his driving style and needs which brings himself and his lack of speed closer to the competition.

john wrote:He has then been able to overtake cars such as virgin, hispania, lotus, toro rosso all with ease and in zones which have no DRS thanks to the mclarens power advantage.

Yes and lets not forget the Force Indias, Mercedes, Ferraris and Red Bulls (well, Mark Webber anyway), all in dry conditions where the other driver has not made a mistake (I'll be generous and let you have the fact he "profited" from Vettel going off in Canada).

john wrote:Button however just plods along in his boring, conservative style and just profits on other driver mistakes.

How exactly have you ben following F1 in recent years? Jungle drums, Chinese whispers?

Your selective memory is clearly leaving out races such as Brazil 2009 and Barcelona, Canada, Hungary and Spa this year.

john wrote:If these pirelli tyres had not been introduced and a more durable racing tyres was chosen then button would no doubt be destroyed by the sheer pace of hamilton, vettel and alonso, especially in dry conditions

Again, you reveal your unbelievably blinkered bias and/or sheer lack of F1 knowledge. Hamilton has been known for being hard on his tyres his whole career and had the same problem with Bridgestones.

As for Vettel and Alonso you can't make any worthwhile comparisons, as the Ferrari, besides being slightly slower than the McLaren anyway, suffered a large performance drop on the harder compound tyres (more a problem of getting them up to temperature than wear).

The Red Bull, as we all know (well, most of us anyway) has been the class of the field for the last 2 seasons. They also demonstrated at Monaco that, in the right conditions, they can make the soft tyres last way longer than predicted.

So, what are you going to blame Button's success on now thast he's blown your wet-weather argument out of the water and your new tyre argument has been shown to be a complete fallacy?

McLaren or FIA conspiracy?

Bonjourno!

Wow! People say I have a bias towards Alonso, but the measures John Boy has gone to prove that Jenson Button MBE is inferior to Hamilton is unreal.

All in all, what he has said is that Hamilton cant deal with the new rules and the new tyres have really proved how bad his tyre management really is.

Considering Jenson Button MBE has performed more overtakes out of DRS compared to Hamilton just baffles me as John seems to think this is the only way Jenson Button MBE can over take.

How will Hamilton cope with the pressure of Jenson Button MBE potentially beating him this season?

Forza Alonso!

But Jenson has generally started further down the grid so that is a false stat*. Before you say it the reason button was able to get in front of schumacher so easily, yet Lewis couldnt is cos lewis had pressured schumacher to the point of wearing his tyres out AND button caught Schumacher off guard. Making Schumacher a sitting duck for Button. Not taking anything away from Button, but you'll no doubt use that as evidence that button is the better drive. Infact id have bet my house on you bringing that up

THe new rules do seem to suit button more, its more about conserving tyres then racing hard.... sad really, the way F1 is heading.

ANd why is it that a couple of races where button has had the upper had, since when has that made button the better driver.

No one expects Lewis to beat Jenson EVERY season, but us that are willing to give balanced opinions can say that. YOU on the other hand are incapable of giving Lewis credit when he does well.

and i might add that if Lewis had done the moves schumacher did against him, you can guarantee he would have been penalised for it. It seems Lewis is playing against different rules.

Lewis would be hanged for moves that schumacher made. you would have eddie jordan, mansell and lauda calling for him to quit etc etc. I love it how brawn get a warning whereas hamilton would of been given a straight drive thru. The Button move on schumacher was ridiculous, schumacher defending from lewis completely destroyed his tyres so it was inevitable. Button is seizing his chance, his skills are changeable conditions and tyre management and they are key in f1 today with these current rules. Hamilton is along with Webber just out of luck. Hamilton is racing in the wrong era in f1. Hamilton was banging in the laps at the end with fastest laps. Thats the type of racing i want to watch, YES racing, not conserving tyres. I thought todays race was appaling. Vettel once again wins an unconvincing race, apart from one move on alonso he did absolutely nothing. The season is over!

Bonjourno!

That message was like a new concorde agreement! But, for the sake of the forum, I will abide by the rules.

I wouldnt want to get a drive thru penalty or grid drop penalty for rule infringement!

Forza The Rules!

You are still insane for such a comment. Petrov qualified infront of Senna and was then taken out by the Luizzi incident. So no its not a fair comment. Plus even if he had finished the race infront of petrov, it was ONE race. Not the tenth that he had finished infront of petrov. jeeeez