Spare a thought for the Coaches

In Modern Rugby,the Coach is all powerful,he selects the teams,supervises the training works his way up.
Player[maybe],Club,Proviicial,Super Rugby,or its equivalent to full international status.If he`s successful
he gets the kudos,stuffs up he takes the flak[or blames it on his players].In the build up to a major
tournament he will select his team,game plan etc.Then it is out of his hands the team has to perform.
We are at the start of what is probably the pinnacle of his career a RWC,expectations are high the
realities don`t come into it.
Depending on your side ,the Coach is judged his win/loss ratio means nothing if he does`nt deliver.
If you are outside the Big 5 sides expectations are to get out of your Group,then go as far as you
can.For Tier 2 sides it is to notch up some wins among the big boys,in theory the 3Ns and 5 of the 6N
sides should qualify every time for the knock out stages but seldom do.
So we come to the big 5,England with a rookie coach ,may fancy there chances v France/Australia
if they get that far.BUT France/Australia in a RWC not to say NZ is a big ask 2015 is more realistic.
France whatever they do have a new coach post RWC ,with them you never no.
SA have a powerful squad,a dead eye man sausage kicker,traditional RWC game plan PDV or whoever[ Erasmus]?
have a good chance of back to back RWCs.
Robbie Deans but for 2003 RWC failure,may have been All Black coach now may get redemption with
the Wallabies.They are peaking at the right time,they may have players to come in but they may just
disrupt the team settlement.Need a reliable Goal kicker.
Finally New Zealand,I claim to be there biggest fan but being an Anglo-Scot and UK based I can be more
objective than Kiwi based supporters.
Graham Henry and Co. are great Coaches,TED is the only one to survive a RWC loss,he has delivered
an 86.7% win/loss rate,2005/6/7/8/10 3NS championships the last 6-0 is unique.BUT his remit is to
deliver an RWC at home for the first time since 1987,win he goes out in a blaze of glory.Fail and the
Media will say HIM,the Nearly Man ,like Wyllie,Mitchell,Hart and others it is RWC or you failed!!!!

I was listening to john Mitchell talking about the Golden Lions and their 2 and a half season old devlopment processes and what he thinks of the depth of the players and also the juniors at the Lions.

He speaks with confidence, provides clear coherent and logical reasoning to every question.

He fills you with confidence that he knows what he is talking about, specifically when it comes to individuals and their development, he makes it clear that game plan development is not his only priority, and the individuals in the team has some development goals of their own.

In contrast to that PDV has never given anything but an abstract answer that borders closer to verbal diahrea than anything logical.

Whether he wins or not, in my book the experience of the last four years where we as supporters know nothing, can't get any straight answers and nothing makes sense, must never be repeated.

Hi,Biltong John Mitchell has some previous.All Black coach,England forwards coach under Clive Woodward.
You should`nt hold it against him,with King Carlos coaching the Lions
backs.They should at least be able to run the ball.

I was a little surprised the ARU re-signed Deans before the cup, they obviously like what they're seeing. Before the last few weeks the jury was still out on him for mind with erratic performances and endless talk of 'learning lessons' but now it seems their decision was justified.

Maybe the ARU thought that if the kiwi's fall short and they didn't stitch up Deans that he would likely end up coaching back over there.

biltongbek wrote:I was listening to john Mitchell talking about the Golden Lions and their 2 and a half season old devlopment processes and what he thinks of the depth of the players and also the juniors at the Lions.

He speaks with confidence, provides clear coherent and logical reasoning to every question.

He fills you with confidence that he knows what he is talking about, specifically when it comes to individuals and their development, he makes it clear that game plan development is not his only priority, and the individuals in the team has some development goals of their own.

In contrast to that PDV has never given anything but an abstract answer that borders closer to verbal diahrea than anything logical.

Whether he wins or not, in my book the experience of the last four years where we as supporters know nothing, can't get any straight answers and nothing makes sense, must never be repeated.

As a casual observer of PDV I can't disagree with the your comments and I've been bemused on more than one occasion at his ramblings. I'm interested though, on his credentials to coach SA because although there may have been a political element to his appointment, wasn't he a successul coach at club and junior international level? I'm just curious to know if his abilities were inflated to get him this job or whether he was a good coach that just hasn't cut it at this level?

He did some coaching at a low level amateur club, then was assistant coach for one of the franchises but it escapes my mind who for, then out of the blue he managed the boks at the JWC.

Cheeky Watson an anti apartheid activist basically used his political clout with the ANC to get PDV an interview for the Job

If you compare his credentials with Allistair Coetzee as an example, Coetzee was assistant coach to Jake White for 4 years and new the players and system better than anuone, if they wanted a non white coach and had the intentions to do what is best for SA rugby they would have appointed him

The danger we have here is that not only do we have politicians interfering, but then they use nepotism to get their guy in.

Bad combination

There are rumours cheeky Watson would help PDV to get the job and in return Luke Watson would get the Springbok captaincy

biltongbek wrote:He did some coaching at a low level amateur club, then was assistant coach for one of the franchises but it escapes my mind who for, then out of the blue he managed the boks at the JWC.

Cheeky Watson an anti apartheid activist basically used his political clout with the ANC to get PDV an interview for the Job

If you compare his credentials with Allistair Coetzee as an example, Coetzee was assistant coach to Jake White for 4 years and new the players and system better than anuone, if they wanted a non white coach and had the intentions to do what is best for SA rugby they would have appointed him

The danger we have here is that not only do we have politicians interfering, but then they use nepotism to get their guy in.

Bad combination

There are rumours cheeky Watson would help PDV to get the job and in return Luke Watson would get the Springbok captaincy

Thanks for the additional background. You'll be well and truly stuffed if he pulls off back to back WC wins!

Oz have ample back up coach option in mckenzie who with a 2 year deans deal might be the next world cup coach.
It wlll give him time with the reds to consolidate a solid franchise, something missing in oz since the brumbies days.
A world cup win and 2 more years will see deans in a perfect bargaining positin for the ab job next cup.
This might serve everyone all round come 2015.
If nz take deans back he'll be a stronger coach all round for the experience.
Last weeks result was the best id seen from deans efforts. This time instead of just rambling the usual lessons learned speeches from eden park he really did learn and he instilled the 'smash em bro' approach used by samoa and the abs to an awesome effect.
THAT is the sign of a good coach. In a short time he developed an attitude across the team.
The pre eden park cockiness in the media was gone. Everything was focussed internally within the team.
The challenge for deans is to retain that feeling within the side.
Theres a tendency to externalise everything again...gain false belief from the media etc..."we're sxv and 3N champs. We hold the upper hand...".
As soon as that starts to creep back in...bang!
back to square one.
Thats why i believe the abs are in a better position. The next meeting with oz and or SA will be about redemption. Revenge. A chance to get things right. Settle the matter once and for all.
The challenge for deans is to find that same level of motivation, the same as prior to brisbane.
In seeing GH battling to try and keep motivation fresh while they were on that winning streak last year it is by no means easy.
Motivation is easier if theres a debt to settle.

Hi,Taylorman can I ask a personal question of you,and also your NZ collegues.IF Graham Henry fails to win the RWC does that diminish him as
a Coach.Did it with John Hart,Grizz Wyllie,and the others who failed?all who had similar win stats.For me from my ,Perspective he`s a great a string of wins,the odd loss.Just like the others,fine by me BUT i`m not a KIWI and
the RWC just another series of games to be won.
Post RWC there was some talk of maybe one of the other coaches taking
over.There is much to be said for continuity,of course IF they fail to win RWC,gut reaction they`ll be dumped en masse.

Everyone gets it in the neck when the AB's lose Alan, GH has his fair share of haters even now and always has had- lot of it shakes back to the Canterbury Auckland days where Henry had Aucks at their peak destroying everyone, Canterbury included.

That's why the Deans GH debate got so heated. Henry has always maintained his integrity and was particularly impressive in 2007 when he marched straight into the French changing room and congratulated them and never offered a word about Barnes or the penalties or anything. Fronted and took it. Few coaches in that position would have been able to do that.

He came back to the usual headhunting but again, continued to front and take it. he got a lot of heat going for coach again- unheard of given previous lynchings and he now has the worst Wcup record.

For that reason he'll know how to handle defeat and its a fact of life that NZers are unsympathetic when we lose matches we shouldnt - and 2007 we just shouldnt have, simple as that.

I certainly wont begrudge him, he'll deserve his retirement. Hopefully he gets there as no one will have deserved it more.

It might depend on the manner of any loss, but every time I say that word i just keep picturing Eden Park- and can't see it...

Problem is a ground no matters the stats mean nothing,the all Blacks have loss 33 games at home in 108.years.
Which stasticaly is about .28% of a game a year which is ridiculous,sub divide that by the number of Home venues in the period,it would come out somewhere like nil.
BUT the 33 games were lost,3 of those in the last 4 years ,including 2 back to back to the Boks out of a total of 8.
You have to play and win at least 6out of 7 to reach the final and win it.
To win that trophy,you may have to beat France,England,Boks,Australia to do it.Outside a RWC at home yes very likely,in a RWC VERY difficult even with Home advantage.

Stats mean nothing with any match Alan. In the same way that us playing in SA or Oz, stats favouring the home side mean nothing. As it does here.

But I would think if I was going to a ground where they had lost 1 test in 35 in 25 years that my chances were not very good.

Thats all I'm saying. And in World cups, our home advantage is sound- we are unbeaten. In fact we have not had anyone score within 20 points of us here.

I can't speak for other countries- if they arent able to take advantage of being at home then so be it. But we can, and have.

To be fair.Taylorman ,2007 was a weird one,both arguably the best and worst to date.Best because teams like Argentina,and Fiji did so well,bad
because no one had an easier ride than the BOKS 2007.
Good luck to them,you can only beat those teams in front of you.., Only fault selection wise Aaron Major should have been on the bench.
France deserved to win that day,now 1999 THAT was one the ABs should have won.

2007 was weird alright. Look at Oz. They come second in the 3N, SA 3rd. Then Eng lose 36-0 to SA in pool, then beat Oz in the quarter?

1999 France scored something like 24 points unanswered so can't argue with that.

Doesnt really matter now. The teams have started arriving. Next Saturday and Sunday I'm looking forward to. 7 matches in the one weekend...unbelievable. I'll be watching every one!