Ravi 'NoHopara' Bopara

Why exactly is he in the England one day sides? What does he add?

And perhaps more importantly what do Andy Flower and the rest of the England set up see in him?!

Almost lost us the game with the bat yesterday...

And perhaps more importantly what do Andy Flower and the rest of the England set up see in him?!

I'll have a stab at this. I'm guessing, though.

He's a stylish batsman who at his best can be very destructive. But he's been a bit in and out of the side and his confidence doesn't seem that high. I think there is much more effort these days by the management to invest time in players they believe in, even if those players take time to make a return on their investment. Look at the way Flower stood by Broad and KP in the Sri Lanka series, or the time that it's taken Bell to even start to show what he's capable of.

It may not work. Bopara may never quite cut it. There are no guarantees...

But the management does seem to believe he has the potential to be really good, and are giving him every chance to prove it. It's a policy that has worked well in other cases.

That's my guess, anyway.

I dont like Bopara. He is not international standard, no matter how much he tries to tell everyone he is. Everytime i see him bat, he is very selfish and bats for himself instead of the team. Last nights performance was exactly that and it could have cost England the win.

[i][quote="Cowshot"][quote]And perhaps more importantly what do Andy Flower and the rest of the England set up see in him?![/quote]

I'll have a stab at this. I'm guessing, though.

He's a stylish batsman who at his best can be very destructive. But he's been a bit in and out of the side and his confidence doesn't seem that high. I think there is much more effort these days by the management to invest time in players they believe in, even if those players take time to make a return on their investment. Look at the way Flower stood by Broad and KP in the Sri Lanka series, or the time that it's taken Bell to even start to show what he's capable of.

It may not work. Bopara may never quite cut it. There are no guarantees...

But the management does seem to believe he has the potential to be really good, and are giving him every chance to prove it. It's a policy that has worked well in other cases.[/i]
[i]
That's my guess, anyway.[/quote][/i]



**************** ********************* ***************** ***************


That sounds a good guess cowshot. There couldnt be a better time for Bopara to make his argument for prolonged involvement in the England one day squad. India are the number 1 team and to perform against them now counts more than ever. Also there are 2 series home and away forthcoming so if Bopara plays both then the answer whether he's got the temperament for International cricket should be conclusive.

Bopara has the batting ability but can he apply it. I've seen him destroy bowling better than last nights so its down to him now whether he can do it in this series.

Gregers wrote:Why exactly is he in the England one day sides? What does he add?

And perhaps more importantly what do Andy Flower and the rest of the England set up see in him?!

Almost lost us the game with the bat yesterday...

Almost... but didn't. And prior to the 19th over we needed to get 13 from 12 balls, which suggests that we weren't in a terrible position with Bopara at the crease. It's true that he didn't score incredibly quickly (although 31 off 36 isn't quite the crawl some posters suggest). However, with runs flowing at the other end, you could argue that he was playing his part by keeping his wicket and rotating the strike.

If you don't rate Bopara, fine. However, given that Flower has shown himself to be rather a good coach, does it not make sense to trust his judgment, at least in the short run? At least until he actually does lose us a game, rather than 'almost'.

eirebilly wrote:I dont like Bopara. He is not international standard, no matter how much he tries to tell everyone he is. Everytime i see him bat, he is very selfish and bats for himself instead of the team. Last nights performance was exactly that and it could have cost England the win.

How?

Morgan was smashing it all over the park, and Bopara just got off strike, to hold an end down, what would have been the point in him going for it, and getting out?

Though I do think he's batting too low, I think England should open with him, if I remember correctly he did quite well at it in the 20/20 WC a few years back.

The England setup have shown faith in players before that have come good (i.e. Bell, Bresnan), we should trust their judgement.

Edit: He is also a very effective bowler, which England should take advantage of more. When he bowled that over, he took a wicked and slowed the game right down.

Personally I thought Ravi did ok. Kept his wicket intact and rotated the strike sensibly. As someone alluded to above, when your partner is having a good slog, all you need to do is score at a run a ball, and that is what Ravi did.

The fact of the matter is that England won, and his 30-odd was a big contribution toward that. You would have only slagged him off if he had slogged out on 5 and been caught.

Fists of Fury wrote:Personally I thought Ravi did ok. Kept his wicket intact and rotated the strike sensibly. As someone alluded to above, when your partner is having a good slog, all you need to do is score at a run a ball, and that is what Ravi did.

The fact of the matter is that England won, and his 30-odd was a big contribution toward that. You would have only slagged him off if he had slogged out on 5 and been caught.

Agreed
You forget also most of the rest of the England team struggled for fluency, except Morgan, therefore judging on this performance I don't have a problem, the over he bowled was also at a key stage in the match, came on when the spinners were getting slogged, got a wicket and slowed the Indian momentum.

What more do you want?

I'm not a particular fan of Bopara either

He should've taken responsibility and finished it when Morgan went.

I am not focusing on one game from Bopara. I am focusing on his general approach to the game.

13 T20 matches with a true average of less than 20 and a SR of 95 does not allude to this great stroke playing bowler destroying batsman that people say that he is.

Whilst Morgan was smashing India, he did a good job of rotating the strike however, when Morgan went, he did not take charge of the situation as the set batsman. What his approach said to me is that he was trying to protect his own average. This could very well have cost England the match and would have if Patel hand'nt had a few lucky moments in the last over.

Yeah, Bopara did well while Morgan was in but he didn't try and take over the 'run-getter' role once he was out which put us under unnecessary pressure at the end. Ravi is at the stage where he can't really do anything right as people have made their minds about him not being good enough, I happen to agree but his performance the other day wasn't dreadful just more of an ODI one not a T20 one! I always get the impression that he doesn't have a great attitude, he looks very lazy in the field and doesn't seem to fit with the ethic of the rest of the team.

Basically I think he has had enough chances, especially at ODI level, and there are better options around but I'm more than happy to be proved wrong. He HAS to deliver in this ODI series if selected.

Gregers wrote:Why exactly is he in the England one day sides? What does he add?

He can provide England with an extra bowling option. It would be interesting to see him given a chance to bat at number 6 in England's Test Match side, whereby he can take on the mantle as England's new bits-and-pieces player from such former England bits-and-pieces player illuminaries such as Adam Hollioake, Ronnie Irani and Mark Ealham.

Once again an acceptable performance, good enoug in the context of the game but nothing awe inspiring and not as good as others in the side produced.

the critiscim over bopara is harsh (im not saying it just cos im an essex boy)

His performances in the series so far you cant relle criticse him. In the t20 he was there at the end when we WON. In the tests his only chances were after sittting down for 8 hours, and we all know that can be difficlut, and in the odi's he has played little cameo's or beeen in and got runs quickly and that is what we needed at the time!

The criticism is entirely justified. His career strike rate in T20 is less than a run a ball, which includes a spell opening. He did not take the reins when Morgan was out in the T20 against India and plodded along as usual leaving Samit Patel with a tricky 10 runs needed off of the last over. He is simply not capable of upping the run rate when required.

What is frustrating is seeing players that have the hitting capability continually ignored for someone who will never be anything more than an average player.

Exactly my point simsini

It does eseem tpo be a case of Luke Wright again, occassional good performances overshadowing a general poor record. England are a strong side in T20 and Tests, because of that he stands out as a weak link.
Its surpising that a player who hasnt excelled in any format is picked for all 3.
The same of course could have been said of Bell till recently

Luke Wright >> Ravi Bopara

That I disagree on would rather have Bopara in then bits and piece cricketer Luke Wright. Who thank god England aren't picking anymore.

Taylor >>> Bopara

Ravi Bops is just a pathetic cricketer.

Ravi Bopara has had key roles in both of Englands wins in these shortened games - contributing with bat and ball.

Two years ago most posters on 606 reckoned Ian Bell was a useless waste of space who should never play for England again. Flower disagreed.

18 months ago people were writing off Alistair Cook. Flower disagreed.

Everyone screamed abuse at Flower for selecting Bresnan for the ashes tour. Flower disagreed.

3 months ago we all wanted Broad dropped (me included). Flower disagreed.


Now I am not saying that Bopara will "come good", but I reckon that Andy Flower's judgement is a hell of a lot better than most 606 posters.

LondonTiger wrote:Ravi Bopara has had key roles in both of Englands wins in these shortened games - contributing with bat and ball.

Two years ago most posters on 606 reckoned Ian Bell was a useless waste of space who should never play for England again. Flower disagreed.

18 months ago people were writing off Alistair Cook. Flower disagreed.

Everyone screamed abuse at Flower for selecting Bresnan for the ashes tour. Flower disagreed.

3 months ago we all wanted Broad dropped (me included). Flower disagreed.


Now I am not saying that Bopara will "come good", but I reckon that Andy Flower's judgement is a hell of a lot better than most 606 posters.

The difference is that all those guys had done well in international cricket at some stage and were just going through a bad patch.
Ravi on the other hand has never done anything of note at international level.So it doesnt make sense to stick with him.
Sticking with him is just blind optimism.

because he has never had a solid run in either side.

Liam_Main wrote:That I disagree on would rather have Bopara in then bits and piece cricketer Luke Wright. Who thank god England aren't picking anymore.

Taylor >>> Bopara

Taylor >>> Luke >>> Bopara

You've obviously not seen Lukey down at Hove have you. His bowling is very good (much better than Ravi's) and his batting is better as well. And he's not in the side atm as he's having very serious surgery, when he's fit I fully expect him to get his place back over Samit

cricketfan90 wrote:because he has never had a solid run in either side.

Thats the funniest statement I have ever heard

Mate he has had far more chances than what he has actually deserved.LOL

Gregers wrote:

Liam_Main wrote:That I disagree on would rather have Bopara in then bits and piece cricketer Luke Wright. Who thank god England aren't picking anymore.

Taylor >>> Bopara

Taylor >>> Luke >>> Bopara

You've obviously not seen Lukey down at Hove have you. His bowling is very good (much better than Ravi's) and his batting is better as well

At Hove yes, what has he ever done for England nothing? Can't cut it at International level just like Ravi.

Wright will never play for England again.

Um the world cup win against the West Indies... who was that batsman who basically saved the match for us and got us to a semi respectable target?

Oh yeah it was Lukey

I dont rate Luke very highly but he has a far better attitude,commitment and temperment to play international cricket than Ravi.

That being said I dont want either of them anywhere near an England shirt.

Time for Stokes

Ravi Bopara and Stuart Broad saved us a one-dayer against India in 2006 I believe. Everyone has good matches, Luke can't do it on a consistent level.

Wright is never good enough for international cricket for me. I'll admit his bowling is better than Bopara's but he's nothing special and his batting is generally poor with the exception of opening the batting on small grounds. He has never looked like the 'power hitter' late on in the order that England want him to be.

He's not rubbish but we have many better options available.

Agreed Shanky, has a big futute ahead of him. When he's fit to bowl also that's a bigger plus.

Back to the topic Ravi is rubbish

England going forward in ODI's

1) Cook (c)
2) Kieswetter/Davies (wk)
3) Bell
4) J.Taylor
5) KP
6) Mogs
7) Stokes
8) Bresnan
9) Broad
10 Swann
11) Dernbach

Liam_Main wrote:Ravi Bopara and Stuart Broad saved us a one-dayer against India in 2006 I believe. Everyone has good matches, Luke can't do it on a consistent level.

Agreed,neither can Ravi.

Also, Bopara did well the other night, pretty much what was required and his bowling was useful. I don't think he's the kind of player who can come in when we are behind the rate and get us back into a good position but he's OK at keeping the RR going at a steady rate if we have had a good start, which seems to be the plan atm. That said I would rather have Taylor given a chance in the side but his chance will come no doubt.

Carrotdude wrote:Wright is never good enough for international cricket for me. I'll admit his bowling is better than Bopara's but he's nothing special and his batting is generally poor with the exception of opening the batting on small grounds. He has never looked like the 'power hitter' late on in the order that England want him to be.

He's not rubbish but we have many better options available.

I dont think you have to be special to be better than Bops

Gregers wrote:Back to the topic Ravi is rubbish

England going forward in ODI's

1) Cook (c)
2) Kieswetter/Davies (wk)
3) Bell
4) J.Taylor
5) KP
6) Mogs
7) Stokes
8) Bresnan
9) Broad
10 Swann
11) Dernbach

That's what I think they'll go with

Carrotdude wrote:Also, Bopara did well the other night, pretty much what was required and his bowling was useful. I don't think he's the kind of player who can come in when we are behind the rate and get us back into a good position but he's OK at keeping the RR going at a steady rate if we have had a good start, which seems to be the plan atm. That said I would rather have Taylor given a chance in the side but his chance will come no doubt.

He was rubbish the other night and is taking a spot in the side which could and should have been given to a youngster (Ickle James Taylor)

Gregers wrote:Back to the topic Ravi is rubbish

England going forward in ODI's

1) Cook (c)
2) Kieswetter/Davies (wk)
3) Bell
4) J.Taylor
5) KP
6) Mogs
7) Stokes
8) Bresnan
9) Broad
10 Swann
11) Dernbach

No Bell in ODIs plz.

And KP at 5? He will retire if he is asked to bat at 5.

My Team

Cook
KP
Taylor
Morgan
Stokes
Patel
Buttler(wk)
Bresnan
Swann
Broad
Finn/Anderson/Dernbach

Kieswetter over Buttler.

Liam_Main wrote:Kieswetter over Buttler.

I really like Kieswetter as a player but would prefer Buttler as he is a finisher.Maybe we can have both in the side with Kies opening and keeping wkts and Buttler playing the finisher's role lower down the order.But for that to happen the likes of KP and Taylor would have to be able to give me at least 5 overs between them regularly so that we can pick Kies instead of Patel.

Gregers wrote:

Carrotdude wrote:Also, Bopara did well the other night, pretty much what was required and his bowling was useful. I don't think he's the kind of player who can come in when we are behind the rate and get us back into a good position but he's OK at keeping the RR going at a steady rate if we have had a good start, which seems to be the plan atm. That said I would rather have Taylor given a chance in the side but his chance will come no doubt.

He was rubbish the other night and is taking a spot in the side which could and should have been given to a youngster (Ickle James Taylor)

Which night? In the T20 he did well until Morgan was out and didn't take enough responsibility but he didn't do a lot wrong in the ODI. People want him to be rubbish so find a way to do it, other players would have had the exact same match and not been criticised at all. He's better than Samit Fatel at least.

Gregers wrote:Back to the topic Ravi is rubbish

England going forward in ODI's

1) Cook (c)
2) Kieswetter/Davies (wk)
3) Bell
4) J.Taylor
5) KP
6) Mogs
7) Stokes
8) Bresnan
9) Broad
10 Swann
11) Dernbach

This looks very much like what will happen although the Stokes position will be rotated between people like Patel and Bopara and others who can bowl. I'd have Davies over Kieswetter personally but CK is doing alright atm so fair play to him. My issue would be the bowling with Stokes (or whoever) having to bowl 10 overs along with the other 4 - I'd still have Jimmy A over Dernbach on helpful pitches, probably over Broad on flat pitches. We really are going to miss Colly's bowling.

He nearly cost us the T20 bcoz he wanted to improve his average.

'bcoz he was wanted'? He only messed up a couple of overs, he should have done better in the penultimate couple of overs but that's about it. I really don't think he is good enough for England and I don't think he has a great attitude but he's being overly criticised by some people on here purely because they don't like him, imo.

Carrotdude wrote:

Gregers wrote:

Carrotdude wrote:Also, Bopara did well the other night, pretty much what was required and his bowling was useful. I don't think he's the kind of player who can come in when we are behind the rate and get us back into a good position but he's OK at keeping the RR going at a steady rate if we have had a good start, which seems to be the plan atm. That said I would rather have Taylor given a chance in the side but his chance will come no doubt.

He was rubbish the other night and is taking a spot in the side which could and should have been given to a youngster (Ickle James Taylor)

Which night? In the T20 he did well until Morgan was out and didn't take enough responsibility but he didn't do a lot wrong in the ODI. People want him to be rubbish so find a way to do it, other players would have had the exact same match and not been criticised at all. He's better than Samit Fatel at least.

I agree that he hanst been hopeless in the last couple of games but his pereformances have ben no more than adequate. He rarely produces major contributions. If England truely aspire to be number one they need players who put in good performnaces fairly regulalry, Bopara isnt doing that in any format. At the moment hes a passenger catching a ride because theres a couple of senior batsmen out, his bowling is barely worth considering hes usd so little.

Average of 34 in tests, 28 in ODIs, 21 in T20 86 caps and hes passed 50 only 8 times...so yeah recently hes been doing well by Bopara standards. OK perfromances are better than what he usually puts in, thats why the knives are out. Its not a case of ecageratting afew poorish performances, but a frustarton with a player (3 test centuries aside) who has never really looked worth his spot for any run of games.

At least Patel has a reasonable record as a genuine bowling option rather than occassional fill in, and scores his runs quickly.

ravi put in a very good performance with the bat yesterday, run a ball 40 near enough seeing us home

Secured his place in the side for the remaining one-dayers.

His performances this series have reminded me of the spell he had in the ODI team back in 2009 against the Windies. He didn't fail, he made a lot of 30s and 40s, but he didn't kick on. If he is to be part of this team's future, he needs to kick on - he is, after all, a front line batsman with impressive First Class and List A records and he needs to start playing like a frontline batsman for England rather than a bits and pieces cricketer.

He's got the rest of this series to prove a point. Pietersen will probably be back for the India tour whilst Stokes should be bowling again by then, so there's no guarantee that there will be a space in that team.

As for Luke Wright, he's a useful T20 player and I'd take him over Ravi in that format every day of the week, but he probably won't play another ODI:
Tests: Ravi
ODIs: Ravi
T20s: Luke

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:He nearly cost us the T20 bcoz he wanted to improve his average.

Dumbest post I have read on the new 606. Him and Patel did exactly what was needed. I am not a huge Bopara fan - but this rabid hatred is undeserved.


And for the supporters of James Taylor - he looks promising, but his runs have been scored against rather limited bowling attacks in the Second division and Sri Lanka A.