Ravi 'NoHopara' Bopara

First topic message reminder :

Why exactly is he in the England one day sides? What does he add?

And perhaps more importantly what do Andy Flower and the rest of the England set up see in him?!

Almost lost us the game with the bat yesterday...

Finn has looked really dangerous in the past couple of ODIs mate.I dont think Jade has ever done well except when the batsmen are slogging.

Can we not have this argument (again). It's been done to death already.

Shanky - that's the team I think England will go with.

m@tt wrote:Can we not have this argument (again). It's been done to death already.

Shanky - that's the team I think England will go with.

Which?When?

The Dernbach argument. Whenever someone mentions him on here or CMS, you start one.

lets drop it hey guys..


looks like the ravi bashing is over..

im the only one that said keep faith with him lol.

Ravi Bashing will never die!

We do tend to overreact on here, I will reserve judgement on Ravi for now. He has improved by the looks of it, but it is only one series! Let us see if he can do it consistently first!

sadly there will always be a debate about ravi, but we need to just let him focus on his game and become more consistent

Gregers wrote:Ravi Bashing will never die!

Well England have desperatly been searching for someone to fill Collingwoods role in the side....

i think ravi could be crucial in india, because he is a very good batsman, but also his part time, cutters could be very useful, like we saw on firday night, on slow low pitches.

20/20 vs. W. Indies 25/09/11
Bowling
4 overs for 36 runs (1 wicket)
Runs 3 off 9 balls
Back to Ravi bashing

The real challenge for Ravi will come in India...

And for the rest of the team, India will be stronger and normally England are pants playing one dayer's on the Sub Continent

If we win there then we can probably see ourselves as the second best team in the world (behind South Africa until we beat them)

Gregers wrote:The real challenge for Ravi will come in India...

No way.The real challenge would be against Steyn,Morkel and Tahir next summer.

Gregers wrote:If we win there then we can probably see ourselves as the second best team in the world (behind South Africa until we beat them)

In what format or combined?

Well I assume he means ODIs since we are playing an ODI series there. But then are SA seen as that great an ODI side at the moment, they werent exactly great at the WC.
Australia are still way ahead in the ICC Rankings with Sri LAnka, SA, England and India all on very similar points.

If your looking at all formats theres a strong arument that despite the B Teams match the other day England are the strongest T20 team in the world (they are world champions and have won 12 lost 6 in the last 2 years which is the best win/loss ratio of any major side in that period)
They are certainly number one in tests. Winning in India would make them clear number 2 in ODIS ( but isnt likely to happen).
So Id say if they pulled that off they would be the number one all formats team. As it is its arguable they are already.

i think ravi will always have to battle critcism, but he's an essex boy , and he'l deal with it

Gregers, the admins and mods have had a chat and decided to make this thread of the year

Only joking mate, haha

Liam_Main wrote:Gregers, the admins and mods have had a chat and decided to make this thread of the year

Only joking mate, haha

haha

[quote="LondonTiger"]

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:He nearly cost us the T20 bcoz he wanted to improve his average.

Dumbest post I have read on the new 606. Him and Patel did exactly what was needed. I am not a huge Bopara fan - but this rabid hatred is undeserved.


And for the supporters of James Taylor - he looks promising, but his runs have been scored against rather limited bowling attacks in the Second division and Sri Lanka A.[/quote

Dumber than the guy who just bought Luke Wrights name into the equation?

James Taylor's runs have been scored against the Tiflex ball which heavily swings the advantage in favour of bowlers. Admittedly a move to division 1 would help him if he scored runs, but Strauss etc. are Div 2 players.

We can make a pretty decent XI out of Division Two players who have played for England recently:

Strauss, Cook, Pietersen, Morgan, Bopara, Yaylor, Davies, Tredwell, Tremlett, Dernbach, Finn.

I think that while Division Two does have some poor teams, there are a lot of good players around and quality players shouldn't be ignored because of their division.

The difference is that Strauss, KP and Morgan have all proven they can hack it at international level and hardly play in the CC anymore, their division is irrelevant.
Dernbach, Finn, Bopara too to some extent.
Davies, Tredwell and Taylor well lets say they ahvent had a chance to prove themselves yet.

Yes you cant write people off because they play in Div 2, but its still dangerous to be seduced by their figures at County level. Indeed the same can be said for those in Div 1. Equally theres many players who perform better at international level than they do at county because they have "big game" mindsets.

The jury is still out on Taylor, Im pretty trusting of the cyurrent Engfland set up to identify who has the ability and the l mindset to setep up and when currently. I doubt we have seen teh last of Taylor in an England shirt but maybe he has some things to do to force hi way in immediatly, mostly because England arent exactly short of "proper" bastmen in their test and ODI sides.

ravi bopara could get the best test match bowling figures of all time, and still get a load of criticism

Bell HAS TO BE dropped from the ODI side.Taylor is definitely worth s place in the squad although not in the XI instead of Bell.

cricketfan90 wrote:ravi bopara could get the best test match bowling figures of all time, and still get a load of criticism

He could also score 3 centuries in a row and go on to be rubbish for an extended period of time.

Just saying like.


He is the new Paul Collingwood in every sense (except he cant field as well)

although collingwood was an allrounder, ravi is only a part time bowler.

cricketfan90 wrote:although collingwood was an allrounder, ravi is only a part time bowler.

I was more talking about the no matter how well he does he'll always be hated, but Ravi is filling the gap in the ODI (and test with morgan gone) side left by Colli. Collingwood was for a while a genuine front 5 bowling option in ODIs (and even had a test avergae in the low 30's at that time) but as time went on he became a bit part player which is what Ravi is now, hes bowling a lot more than he used to whilst still clealry being a proper batsman ( as collingwood was).
Im not convinced Ravi has done enough yet to justofy staying in the side when Morgan and everyone else is available again, theres young players who could oust him form the support bowling role too. But he is getting closer to convincing, and at least they are using his bowling now so its worth considering ( tuuill this summer he was averaging less than 2 overs an ODI)

Is it not time to move on to a new subject now?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:The difference is that Strauss, KP and Morgan have all proven they can hack it at international level and hardly play in the CC anymore, their division is irrelevant.
Dernbach, Finn, Bopara too to some extent.
Davies, Tredwell and Taylor well lets say they ahvent had a chance to prove themselves yet.

Yes you cant write people off because they play in Div 2, but its still dangerous to be seduced by their figures at County level. Indeed the same can be said for those in Div 1. Equally theres many players who perform better at international level than they do at county because they have "big game" mindsets.

The jury is still out on Taylor, Im pretty trusting of the cyurrent Engfland set up to identify who has the ability and the l mindset to setep up and when currently. I doubt we have seen teh last of Taylor in an England shirt but maybe he has some things to do to force hi way in immediatly, mostly because England arent exactly short of "proper" bastmen in their test and ODI sides.

I agree with you that we're not short of "proper" batsmen, and that's why he's not in the squad.

But I don't agree with the suggestion (even if it's a vague suggestion) that he's not good enough and that the selectors have doubts over him. I'm very confident that he's next in line for the "proper" batsman role at both Test and ODI level, which his continued selection for the Lions suggests (as does him captaining them), along with him playing against Ireland in the "proper" batsman role at 3/4.

Fists of Fury wrote:Is it not time to move on to a new subject now?

Never! Anyone else still hate Ravi?

no ravi is class, and i have always said that.

still has to prove himself.

i just think people need to get off his back and just let him play!

Ravi failed today, only scoring 8 with a tame dismissal. Time to question his place again?

Seriously though, will he be the one to make way when Morgan regains full fitness, or will it be KP, Bairstow or Trott? Bopara will probably stay because of his bowling option.

Ravi bashing will never end! Article of the year 2011.

Article of the year, only due to fellow posters like u jd!

Lets start the Ravi bashing again

JD
KP probably has 4 more ODIS to save his career.Otherwise its bye bye KP from ODI Cricket and this coming from a KP fan
I still think he will do well in these 4 matches and revive his ODI career.

not the ravi bashing again, for god's sake....

pretty much the whole batting order failed yesterday, lets not start getting on his case again.

Shanky, the Ravi bashing never finished, and while I am here, never will finish!

Agree about KP, he has this tour to save his ODI career or he is gone. I am not so he will though. I find it a mystery how this is the only form where he is struggling as he is still playing well in tests and T20's.

Pietersen will come good, have no doubts about that!.

the ravi bashing is terrbile lol. He had a good series against india at home, and bowled well against the windies. Now lets give him a chance in india, the majority of the batting line up failed!

Normal Service resumed

Spoiler:

For all the Ravi bashers out there.

m@tt wrote:Is it bad to say I'm still unconvinced?

Well... "unconvinced" might not the right word. He's doing what has been asked of him. But he needs to keep going and keep improving - we've seen false dawns from him in the past and my worry is that it could just take a couple of poor performances for him to lose his confidence again and go back to the old Ravi.

But in terms of the ODI side, he's earned himself a run in the side and he's doing more to earn/keep a place than KP and Bell.

So... another false dawn? It was back to the old Bopara - averaging 16, SR of 63 and playing nervous innings like in the not-too-distance past.

If he couldn't bowl, I'd close the door on him. Bell and Pietersen are also candidates for the drop, but at least they have played well in this format in the past for more than a couple of games at a time. But he offers a sixth bowling option and Stokes still can't bowl and there are no other stand-out batsmen-who-can-bowl. Argh...

KP averaged 42.50 and looked bloody good in doing so, I wouldn't say he was an immediate candidate for the drop.

Bell we can't judge as today was his first game in weeks, and that can't have made things easy on a turning track.

It is a bit of a dilemma, but Bopara just has to go now. Bell himself is actually a decent medium pacer, though he hasn't bowled in a match situation for some time.

Time for some serious Ravi bashing now
Gregers,JD where are you guys?

Fists of Fury wrote:KP averaged 42.50 and looked bloody good in doing so, I wouldn't say he was an immediate candidate for the drop.

Bell we can't judge as today was his first game in weeks, and that can't have made things easy on a turning track.

It is a bit of a dilemma, but Bopara just has to go now. Bell himself is actually a decent medium pacer, though he hasn't bowled in a match situation for some time.

KP made a few 30s and 40s. No big knocks. He's there to make big, match-winning scores and he hasn't done that for a long time in this format.

I know Bell only played 1 game, but his record in ODIs isn't great and he's had plenty of opportunities this year (albeit most were down the order, but he's played plenty at 4 too) without making a statement of intent. And with Cook and Trott in the team, I can't see room for him. Which is a pity, because he should have opened in Australia and he was my choice to replace Strauss as captain. And now because decisions didn't go his way, he's facing the boot.

I know how good both of them can be, but they aren't showing that and I just don't see the point in alternating between them when neither is doing enough to deserve a place.

KP looked in good touch on this tour and looked dominating, which is how he appears when at his best. Him and Kieswetter need to sit down with someone, Flower or whoever, and work out how to go on from starts. They are both guilty of it.

Bell I don't particularly rate in ODI's and I don't think he should be in the side, but at the moment I would say he probably deserves a chance above Bairstow and Bopara. As for Bairstow, he obviously has huge potential but he has looked a little clueless in this series and needs to have a break from the side for a while and come back stronger. Please, please give Jos Buttler a game in the summer for the ODI side. His ODI figures are outstanding and he looks to have a head for the big day e.g. two T20 finals days on the bounce and the CB40 final this year/

And here it come shanky, I have answered the pleas. I started this series thinking Ravi had turned a corner. In the middle of this series I thought his bowling probably kept him in the side. At the end of the series he has to go. It is not only the failures, it is how clueless he has looked out there. No intent and he gets out in tame ways. Unlike Bairstow, he has numerous chances and kept failing. His time has to be gone now. Please. Drop Ravi. As soon as Ben Stokes can bowl again, he has to take Ravi's place. He isn't an international cricketer, he has the skill but not the mind. And as Alastair Cook has proved, mind is more important than technique at this level.

Who else has done their job in this current English cricket team? Why to single out Bopara? Everyone failed to play Indian spinners and India was the superior team anyway. India showed to England that cricekt is played very differently in different parts of the world. Even Steve waugh failed to conquer India then who is Alistair Cook?

IMO Cook is not a captain material however he will break lots of records in batting.