Haye vs Vitali?

OK, Haye's been quiet but seems Vit is keen to get in there with him after his current fight obligations.

In theory, lets say Haye decided to fight him what do you see the outcome? Could he do something similar to what he did to Valuev against the older and less mobile brother?
If big Lewis couldn't put him down Haye certainly couldn't ever hope of a KO.....

It shouldn't happen. Haye lost in just about as convincing a fashion as you could against Wlad and has not had a fight since so what he has done to go straight back in against a world champion is anyone's guess. However unfortunately it now seems to be the case in boxing that title shots are awarded not to who is the most deserving but whocan shout the loudest and make the most tasteless remarks to shift tickets, as witnessed by that uncouth oaf Bellew getting a title shot.

Hope this doesn't happen and Haye loses comfortably again should it happen but would not surprise me to see him get the chance to get beaten again.

I don't think Haye throws enoughs punches per round to get a decision plus it would probably be in Germany and like you said im not sure he'll have the power to K.O him anyway

I'd still watch it though and hope (as much as i can't see it ever being made) that the fight happens

With Haye winding up Hayemaker promotions and his pet George Groves leaving I would have thought it spelt the end for Haye. Hope I'm right as I would hate to see Haye land an undeserving shot at Vitali. Unless VK is feeling especially charitable then I can't see it. I think Haye's best chance is to target Povetkin but again Povetkin won't give him the chance. Not so much because he doesn't deserve it but because Povetkin will defend his bacofoil belt by beating a ton of chaff. Haye would be too much of a challenge.

I've always thought he had a better chance against Vitali, V's tough but he lets people get to his chin and if lets Haye tee off on him he's getting shaken up or going down.

Haye would have to completely re-think his mindset. He can't beat either brther by running away and throwing amateurish looping rights now and then.

Before the Wlad fight I would have goven Haye a chance against Vitali, after the Wlad fight I'd say he has no chance.

Not even sure I would be interested in watching this one either (although I'd buy it on the night and then feel robbed!).

John Bloody Wayne wrote:I've always thought he had a better chance against Vitali, V's tough but he lets people get to his chin and if lets Haye tee off on him he's getting shaken up or going down.

Haye would have to completely re-think his mindset. He can't beat either brther by running away and throwing amateurish looping rights now and then.

Yet to see much evidence of Haye being that much of a destructive hitter at heavyweight though. I am sure he can hurt Vitali if he landed cleanly, but there is little reason to assume that Vitali would go down. All the evidence so far points to him having a fabulous chin. For Haye to get close enough to unload on Vitali, he will need to stay in range long enough to risk being tagged himself. Vitali just doesn't have the same inherent caution that Wladimir has and I would see him beating Haye with as much comfort as his brother.

I'm not saying Haye's the new Foreman (athough Foreman III sure ain't) but he can hit hard enough and I don't buy into this thing about Vitali being some un breakable wall. Nobody's impervious to the right kinda shot.

Haye KO's Vitali inside 3...

But seriously. Problem is Haye isn't good at putting punches toghether as a technician he is not great. Someone like Solis (the fat knee jerking fool he is, still a talent) would give Vitali trouble because he can box.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:I'm not saying Haye's the new Foreman (athough Foreman III sure ain't) but he can hit hard enough and I don't buy into this thing about Vitali being some un breakable wall. Nobody's impervious to the right kinda shot.

I know John, I did say that I was sure Haye could hurt him if he caught him cleanly. At heavyweight, anyone can be taken out if caught well. I just think the odds are stacked against Haye being able to pull it off without taking a shellacking himself.

I appreciate that it was some time ago, but "that" uppercut that Vitali took from Lennox Lewis tells me that he is more than capable of holding a huge shot. It still makes me wince when I see it all these years later!

Haye really annoys me, did nothing against Wlad and performed so far from what he promised it was laughable, yet straight after was talking rematch or fighting Vitali. How about earning another shot, he is young enough but just get the impression there is a real sense of entitlement about him. End of the day you could argue nobody is going to go through three or four tough fights to earn a shot if you can blag an undeserved one, but surely if those fights would give you an actual chance of winning the title or performing in a manner that did not completely fleece anyone who shelled out to watch you this would be the right thing to do.

rowley wrote:It shouldn't happen. Haye lost in just about as convincing a fashion as you could against Wlad and has not had a fight since so what he has done to go straight back in against a world champion is anyone's guess. .

anyones guess is that he's the best heavyweight out there other than who vitali is fighting next. leaving......no one.

and losing as convincingly as possible is losing a 12 round decision you need to get on youtube and watch a knock out compilation.

I really can't see him coming up with the goods should this fight happen. He couldn't adapt to fight Wlad and nothing I have seen make me think he would be able to adapt to Vitali, even if all of his toes are at 100%.

That said this is not happening as has been pointed out all indications are that Haye is hanging up his gloves.

Jeff, agree with everything you said, but the sad thing is, who else is there for Vitali to fight. It is such a barren wasteland at the moment, short of beating up his little brother, who else is there that would generate any excitment. They could probably fill a stadium pitting Vitali against Jimmy Saville, but outside of Germany and the Ukraine, who would really care.

Jim'll fix the division

Based on what is he the best heavyweight, has he really, if we put partisanship aside done more than the likes of Solis, Povetkin or even Adamek in terms of wins. And don't patronise me I realise he didn't get knocked out but it remains he lost pretty much every round and comfortably, the only reason he avoided the KO is because he was too scared to go within 100 yards of Wlad.

I maintain if you get a world title shot and get absolutely mullered you do not deserve to get an immediate title shot or rematch, the fact the division is poor or the fighter involved is British does not change this.

What about a rematch with Audley Harrison? Would Harrison want the fight though seeing as it is his destiny to become world champion and beating Haye will not achieve that dream now

trottb wrote:Jim'll fix the division

By making all the contenders sit on his knee as he gives out presents, whilst simultaneously breaking the hearts of children all over the world by not answering their letters?

Yes, Jimmy, I am still hurt.

rowley wrote: the only reason he avoided the KO is because he was too scared to go within 100 yards of Wlad.

This for me is Hayes biggest problem he's so scared of taking a hit he cannot commit to any attacks other than the occassional wild swing, it has more similarities with a pub fight than boxing.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

trottb wrote:Jim'll fix the division

By making all the contenders sit on his knee as he gives out presents, whilst simultaneously breaking the hearts of children all over the world by not answering their letters?

Yes, Jimmy, I am still hurt.

Goodness gracious...

rowley wrote:Based on what is he the best heavyweight, has he really, if we put partisanship aside done more than the likes of Solis, Povetkin or even Adamek in terms of wins. And don't patronise me I realise he didn't get knocked out but it remains he lost pretty much every round and comfortably, the only reason he avoided the KO is because he was too scared to go within 100 yards of Wlad.

I maintain if you get a world title shot and get absolutely mullered you do not deserve to get an immediate title shot or rematch, the fact the division is poor or the fighter involved is British does not change this.

based on the others have been smashed already by both brothers or bottled out. Vitali wants to face haye because he'll make a lot of money doing it. he can take a voluntary defence against who he likes. its not that haye deserves it, its that vitali wants to fight him.

i couldnt see anyone other than the brothers beating haye.

Povetkin is good, and i really want solis to get his shot again dont get me wrong. but id like to see haye in the ring again. if he gets knocked out, so be it.

I would also like him to face one of the brothers again but I would like him to do something in the intervening period to give some hope to those of us who will ultimately pay his wages in his next attempt that he has some actual hope of winning or at least making the fight competitive as I saw little to suggest this would be the case the first time around.

The way I look at it is if a plane takes off at Heathrow and crashes in Datchett you do not put it straight back on the runway, you find out why it crashed and take action to try and minimise the chance of such a thing happening again. That is all I would ask of Haye. To be honest though I would question without some decent performances and wins how much money Haye will bring to the table next time round, he brings money based on PPV sales, on the back of Audley and Wlad, to say nothing of the Valuev snorefest is reasonable to question if haye will really shift PPV's in the manner he has previously

Silly question perhaps but I thought I would throw it out there.

Doesnt Haye have a rematch clause for his belt?

Hobo unlikely think you can only put a rematch clause in where it is a voluntary defence, as Wlad was the established champion and had two belts to Haye's one think any such request would have been laughed off. Now would be more than likely Wlad had a rematch clause had Haye won.

Hobo wrote:Silly question perhaps but I thought I would throw it out there.

Doesnt Haye have a rematch clause for his belt?

No because there wasnt a rematch clause put in place for the Wlad match with either fighter

Nah Rowley Wlad had no rematch clause either

Haye vs Chisora is more likely than Vitali, don't think he will fancy going to germany a 3rd time..

Fair enough Steffan, guess he didn't think he would need it, how right he was.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

John Bloody Wayne wrote:I'm not saying Haye's the new Foreman (athough Foreman III sure ain't) but he can hit hard enough and I don't buy into this thing about Vitali being some un breakable wall. Nobody's impervious to the right kinda shot.

I know John, I did say that I was sure Haye could hurt him if he caught him cleanly. At heavyweight, anyone can be taken out if caught well. I just think the odds are stacked against Haye being able to pull it off without taking a shellacking himself.

I appreciate that it was some time ago, but "that" uppercut that Vitali took from Lennox Lewis tells me that he is more than capable of holding a huge shot. It still makes me wince when I see it all these years later!

I guess the last 8 years are a big reason I'd like to see Haye face Vitali. He's the only puncher whom I think would actually be able to test his chin. Vitali proved his toughness and most heavyweights would've been sparked by that shot, but since then he looked shaken against Sanders and nobody else has really had the tools to put him trouble.

I completely agree with what rowley's saying, if you're a name you get the opportunities immediately no matter what you've actually done. It's as if fighters are no longer as good as their last fight, but their last soundbite. Kirkland was on the undercard of a PPV fight two fights after getting pummeled by Ishida if I remember correctly, and where was Ishida?

I question the wisdom of an immediate fight with Vitali both in a professional snse and a financial one. To me it would reek of simply looking to grab some more money for as little possible effort which has been the trademark of Hayes heavyweight career.

Financially what position is Haye at in terms of the negotiating table? He has no hope of a 50/50 split. 30% would be optimistic in what he could hope to demand. His ppv power will have been greatly reduced and the fight is going to be very difficult to sell as competitive which could reduce interest even further. Haye can no longer rely on his mouth (or toe) to try and convince people he will be competitive or deliver a classic fight.

Professionally hes on the back of a lay off and a decisive loss. Rushing back into a match with Vitali with no warm up fight or booster seems pretty hopeless. His confidence has to be dented so why not take a decent testing fight against a ranked heavyweight to get back on track.

From both a professional and a financial perspective, winning a preparation fight against a respected opponent would do wonders for him. His confidence would grow and he would get people back on board, maybe even convincing many he has a chance if he can beat a decent name convicingly. Financailly his earning power would increase.

What bugs me about Haye is again, like always, he just seems unwilling. It would be so easy to work his way back into contention legitimately especially if he genuinely believes he is a cut above the rest of the contenders. Hes young in heavyweight terms, hasnt had too many fihgts and even fewr bruising ones. But its this unwrranted sense of entitlement to an immediate shot, the falseness of maintaining he is a different league and the refusal to just fight his way rather than talk his way to a shot. This kind of attitude sums Haye up for me really and more and more I suspect hm of really just being out to make a quick buck opportunistically in what were two appalling divisions rather than any real desire to provide pretty much any of the bold promises he made. Now at long last when his words finally carry little weight and he actually has to rely on something else hes seems unwilling to entertain anything other than an undeserved immediate title shot.

Don't want to watch it.......Haye wants to act and for me played it safe against Vlad..

Don't see how a Vitali fight would be any different..Plus Haye thinks he's a bigger fish than he is...Lost a lot of street cred after Vlad and would have to take a big pay cut!!!!

However I think Haye thinks he's still a Super-fight guy...

Never agree purses on this one!!

sad fact is he's not a super-fighter.......anymore

lets be honest haye would get destroyed, haye should fight fury imo

Have just read on boxing scene that Vitali v Valuev could be the next fight for the Ukranian in Switzerland in 2012.

Would this help his legacy by facing the one man who both brothers have been accussed of avoiding during their time as champions, or is it a case of too little too late?

Fighting Valuev does nothing either way for me, to be honest Nik is not very good and never was, personally never saw him as a threat to them, the non fight is made more of than it is as a stick to beat them with when in reality Nik was never much of a threat and the previous failure for the fight to happen was more as a consequence of Don King trying to blag Nik to Marciano's 49-0.

Klitchko would destroy Valuev imo who is bigger but I dont hink he is as good i reckon klichko would knock him out in the last few rounds like haye nearly did maybe he could even knck him out earlier coz he got more power than haye.

Let's be honest; even if Valuev did pose a serious threat in his own right, he's been beaten by two guys who have each lost to Wlad. This alone diminishes any prestige which might have been garnered by beating the big fella.

trottb wrote:Have just read on boxing scene that Vitali v Valuev could be the next fight for the Ukranian in Switzerland in 2012.

Would this help his legacy by facing the one man who both brothers have been accussed of avoiding during their time as champions, or is it a case of too little too late?

This is a fight Vitali needs to get out of the way so that he can say he fought the best around, no matter how mediocre they were

a fully fit haye has every chance of beating a klit , but leassons must be learned from the wlad fight , his punch output must be greater

I didn't believe that Haye had much chance of turning over Wlad and I see no reason why he should have any better chance of turning over Vitali.

Haye's ' in and out ' style isn't effective against a man who outreaches him and carries an authoritative jab. Bottom line is that he doesn't throw enough accurate punches when he darts inside and most of his speed and energy are spent simply avoiding incoming fire. He also lacks the fundamental slipping and countering skills to stay in range., plant his feet, and let his hands go. So did Ali, but if we watch Ali against the 6ft.6ins. Ernie Terrell, ( who had the best jab in heavyweight boxing, at the time, ) we see Ali dart in, unload a flurry of accurate and stiff punches and then get back out again. Haye, by contrast, was darting in against Wlad and trying to tee off with single shots before getting back out again. He didn't dent the suspect Wlad chin with single shots so it's highly unlikely that he will be able to dent Vitali's sturdier chin, in my opinion.

Men such as Joe Louis and Jack Dempsey - even Holyfield - knew how to fight huge men with authoritative jabs. Each of them could draw the lead, slip outside it and counter over the top, or block it and simultaneously step in and fire their own jabs. Tyson was like a synthesis of them all, able to work his way in like Dempsey or dart in like Ali, whereupon his phenomenal handspeed would enable him to inflict damage. Haye doesn't do any of this to any significant degree, and even John Ruiz was outjabbing him at times.

Unless the years have caught up with him I'd reckon Vitali to go one better than his brother and stop Haye sometime during the final third of the fight.

rycoys wrote:a fully fit haye has every chance of beating a klit , but leassons must be learned from the wlad fight , his punch output must be greater

What is this based on?

Colonial Lion wrote:

rycoys wrote:a fully fit haye has every chance of beating a klit , but leassons must be learned from the wlad fight , his punch output must be greater

What is this based on?

Didn't you see the horrific injury he sustained in training? How anyone can be made to fight with problems like that is beyond me, truly barbaric.

I suspect that this indeed will be the basis of such statements. It does in some ways show how easy it would be for Haye to actually put himself in contention again. Even if he were to manage win over someone like Tyson Fury or Chris Arreola I think it would be surprising how much the toe injury gathers momentum as the primary reason behind his defeat to Klitschko.

I agree Colonial, although I don't think we will see him fight again, it would not be hard for him to lure people back into thinking that he is the saviour of boxing. The British media and public have notoriously short memories when it comes to these things.