The golfers' Music Room

Mac started a really good thread today and while I'm not as fussy about things going off topic as some people, it does seem a shame to drown out Mac's thread with music chat - so I think we'll have a music corner for us golfers (in addition to the forum-wide music section)

I know Kwini is keen on his music, often throwing musical references into his ballwasher topics (I remember one of his last efforts on the old site being entitled The Boys Are Back In Town, and the conversation going off into Thin Lizzy territory!

S_R (on the other thread) made a reference to "hating the Beatles" - discuss!

I don't know how old s-r is, but I didn't much care for 50-y-o music when I was in my twenties.
Beatles heritage much spoilt by the deaths of L & H followed by the shameless commercialism and self-serving revisionist history by McCartney.
"Saw" them playing the "Get Back" session acrosss the rooftops: "Hey, it's The Beatles. They're on the roof"!
Saw them but couldn't hear them!!

Wow that's quite a claim to fame, even if you couldn't hear them!

I saw the Beatles on their first national tour in Blackpool - at the age of 3!

I was on a family holiday and having old sisters, they were going to see the Beatles while parents were going to watch something like the Black and White Minstrels! Fortunately I was allowed to go with my sisters rather than the parents. Unfortunately I was too young to remember it! Not many people my age can say they've seen the Beatles though!

You're obviously not a Sir Paul of the Thumbs fan, Kwini!

I also really hate U2, though less for their dreary samey music as the ghastly Bono and gittish "The Edge".

Most of the music I listen to no one will have ever heard of so is a bit pointless to list.

Wow, another thing we agree on Super.

I really hate U2 and would happily see some really terrible injuries befoul bono in some way.

s_r,
You'd be surprised!
We are home base for Phish and Grace Potter so see them around town whether we like it or not!
B-in-l an indy promoter in the Northern Rockies so periodically get tix for some interesting people.

Bono, Blumenthal, The Edge, Alex Salmond and Ed Milliband in a meat mincer?

Beatles Over rated.
John Lennon Was not the messiah.
U2 Average band with rather large ego's
Elvis burger eating, poor dancing over hyped average singer.
Status "2 chords" Quo. need I say more

Music is individual taste but some I really do loathe.

kwinigolfer wrote:...Beatles heritage much spoilt by the deaths of L & H followed by the shameless commercialism and self-serving revisionist history by McCartney.
"Saw" them playing the "Get Back" session acrosss the rooftops: "Hey, it's The Beatles. They're on the roof"!
Saw them but couldn't hear them!!

Indeed. McCartney, for all the Beatles heritage he helped create, is very, very annoying.

Noticed a number of Oscar Petersen fans on Mac's other thread. If you haven't read it, get his autobiography. Great reading about his career in all those smoke-filled bars etc with musicians of the calibre of Clark Terry, Lester Young et al and the sheer amount of hours playing and touring.

Anything or anyone that has come out of a "talent" show is clearly not worth listening to, ditto 99% of anything within the mainstream.

Maverick wrote:Beatles Over rated.
John Lennon Was not the messiah.
U2 Average band with rather large ego's
Elvis burger eating, poor dancing over hyped average singer.
Status "2 chords" Quo. need I say more

Music is individual taste but some I really do loathe.

Can I add Coldplay to the grinder? Puhleeeese?


S_R

Much as I find Alex Salmond irritating, he's quite a slick politician with a lot more about him than many of the rest.

Sorry, anyone involved with Scottish independence or Scottish nationalism in any sense ought to be fitted for concrete wellingtons. I passed him on the stairs once at University, could barely get passed him due to his morbid obesity.

Maverick wrote:Status "2 chords" Quo. need I say more

That's a bit harsh, Mav!

Though ususally refered to as 3-chord wonders (not 2), the "old" Quo were actually pretty good musicians. Much bar-room rock is loosely based around 3 chords anyway but they were much more than that.

Nowadays of course they have simply turned into a parody of themselves and are more like a cabaret act that a proper rock band, but back in the day they were really, very good

I was in my teens in the 60s with Elvis and then Flower Power!! wow that was a great ( make love not war) and by god we had a good time, walking about with rings of Daisey's in our hair( it amazing what us men will do for sex).

During the sixties and early seventies, we had some of the best groups ever, who's talent even today stands out above of the music of today( ok I am biased as it was my time)

super_realist wrote:I also really hate U2, though less for their dreary samey music as the ghastly Bono and gittish "The Edge".

Most of the music I listen to no one will have ever heard of so is a bit pointless to list.

You really have to watch the Harry and Paul show, they do a great spoof of Bono and The Edge

oldparwin

You are right when you say the music of the 60's and 70's is the best by a mile.

As for the status quo, they are dreadful.


One modern band i really like are the fleet foxes, anyone else like them?

super_realist wrote:Anything or anyone that has come out of a "talent" show is clearly not worth listening to, ditto 99% of anything within the mainstream.

s_r

have to disagree on that one, I could listen to Rebecca Ferguson's voice for a long time before becoming bored. She seems to have disappeared after all the euphoria of last years' X Factor. Hope she is still around, brilliant voice and not really into mainstream pop so hopefully get some decent material out of her.

McLaren wrote:
One modern band i really like are the fleet foxes, anyone else like them?

My daughter went to see them recently in Manchester. She loves them. She did play me a couple of their songs though and I couldn't see the attraction

D4S, I admit I don't listen to that type of music, but they always seem to select people who fit into a particular type of music and are therefore far from unique in their unremarkable voices.
Popstars by numbers as far as I can see.

You'd never find an individual voice like Beth Orton, Angela McCluskey or Imogen Heap getting through on drivel kareoke like X-Factor because they'd be difficult to pigeon hole.
It seems like they just produce a conveyor belt of Beyonce wannabe's if you are female or some gay castratto boy band gone solo if you are male.

Predictable, boring and completely credibility free, nothing about music at all and everything about lining wretched peoples pockets. Killing music in general by death of a thosand cuts.

s_r

Do a google search on Rebecca F, her voice is certainly worth checking out. It's a natural for blues/RnB and that type of stuff. Ironically enough though, her biggest success on X Factor was performing a U2 song

I did just look it up D4S, but I've heard it all before and she sounds fairly anonymous, in fairness though I loathe Rn'B.

I've never seen anyone on those shows be better than a backing singer. You can't create talent. You either have it or you don't, and if you did you don't need a show. If you need a show, then you aren't good enough.

that's a pet hate of mine... the hijacking of the term R'n'B

Back in the 60s RnB was used to describe bands like The Stones and the Spencer Davis Group - now it's used for a bunch of Beyoncé clones. How did that ever happen?

Davie wrote:that's a pet hate of mine... the hijacking of the term R'n'B

Back in the 60s RnB was used to describe bands like The Stones and the Spencer Davis Group - now it's used for a bunch of Beyoncé clones. How did that ever happen?

Don't know but sign me up for the firing squad when you find the culprit. Someone needs to point out what R&B really is to these people. Blues? They don't know what it is and I'm not sure about rhythm with some of them either.

Davie,
They don't remember Mike Raven's Rhythm and Blues Show on early R1!

As much as I support and cheer the local golfers, etc., I have to agree about U2, never liked them, never liked their music and never went to any of their gigs... I'm in a bit of a minority around here with that, but there you go.

By enlarge I'd be a 70's kind of guy when it comes to music (pop excluded). Plus some great jazz, blues and things like that...

kwini (or Shotrock or anyone else who knows) I meant to ask you before but this looks now like the right place to do it... I can only claim one short trip to Vermont in my life. It happened sometime about 10-15 years ago. Don't ask me where exactly because I can't remember, I was staying with some friends in NYC for a few days and they brought me at the weekend somewhere there in the mountains, it was very nice indeed. And I remember passing at some point through a place called Woodstock. Now I can't remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure we were already in Vermont at that stage. So tell me please, is THE Woodstock (as in Voodoo Chile, etc.) in Vermont or in NY? For some reason I thought Woodstock was somewhere close to NYC, but I might be wrong, I was too small around those years to remember...

Davie wrote:that's a pet hate of mine... the hijacking of the term R'n'B

Back in the 60s RnB was used to describe bands like The Stones and the Spencer Davis Group - now it's used for a bunch of Beyoncé clones. How did that ever happen?

I'm pleased to report that I referred to RnB in the proper sense, not the dirge closely associated with (c)rap music

I don't remember Mike Raven either Kwini!

PD - I'll let the others give the definitive answer but I'm pretty sure Woodstock is in Upstate New York...

In fact, Wiki says the following...

The Woodstock Festival was a music festival, held at Max Yasgur's 600-acre dairy farm in the Catskills near the hamlet of White Lake in the town of Bethel, New York. Bethel, in Sullivan County, is 43 miles (69 km) southwest of the town of Woodstock, New York, in adjoining Ulster County.

I think I paid a short visit to Vermont once too - but I may be misremembering. I was actually in Maine and took a day trip to some theme park which my failing memory tells me was across in Vermont. Is this possible Kwini or has my memory totally let me down?

s_r

That's a bit harsh, there has been a huge amount of rubbish come out of reality shows but there have been some genuine success stories. Will Young and Leona Lewis both have great voices, agreed not everyones taste but still good voices nonetheless. Everyone just needs that lucky break to get started, just because they have gone down the reality show route doesn't make them poor artistes.

Prince

He was on snoopy's roof wherever that is.

super_realist wrote:Sorry, anyone involved with Scottish independence or Scottish nationalism in any sense ought to be fitted for concrete wellingtons. I passed him on the stairs once at University, could barely get passed him due to his morbid obesity.

Must be one of the first times I completely agree with one of your rants super! I've heard he's a bit of a pest also...

As for the music, I find myself increasingly drawn towards my dad's generations music (and before) rather than todays stuff. I'm late 20s for reference. To go with the recent mentions of Steve Windwood and the Spencer Davis Group I have a 'best of' and recently downloaded a few of Steve's later solo stuff. Mainly like Bowie, The Who and the Stones but I still flick through music from previous generations to find 'new' material.

At the mention of Steve Winwood I have to say that his song called Valerie is far better than Amy Whinehouse

D4S, I'm sure they have "good" voices, but they are fairly formulaic, run of the mill, anonymous and not particularly noteable, they just happened to fit in with a cynical money making platform which has almost nothing to do with music at all.
Look a bit beyond the mainstream and you'd find a lot of "artists" (i hate that term) who really make them look Vauxhall Conference, but then again the general populous always like the mediocre, banal, safe, innoffensive, vapid and tepid when it comes to music and the likes of Cowell know that only too well.

Can't remember Mike Raven? Cor blimey! A staple of Saturday night listening, turn over from Sports Report!

THE Woodstock is in New York, about fifty miles south of the State Capital, Albany. But there's a perfectly good Woodstock in VT, quite upmarket and twee I understand - never been!

Davie, Don't know where that theme park might have been that was within easy reach of Maine; we don't border Maine and don't think we have a theme park. New Hampshire? Mass?? Quebec???!!!

Ah probably NH then Kwini - I told you my memory was bad!

s_r

looks like stalemate on this one then, I like the voices but not necessarily the material that they are the 'mouthpiece' for. Of course, the biggest winner is Simon Cowell.....kerching!

<Truce emoticon>

Davie wrote:At the mention of Steve Winwood I have to say that his song called Valerie is far better than Amy Whinehouse

To be fair the Zutons version is better than either of them and the sax player is pretty fit. Not a fan of Steve Winwood but though Back In The High Life was a really good tune. Its the same with a lof of singers/bands though, U2 are getting a bit of a kicking on here and im no fan but there are good half dozen of their tracks that I really like, The Sweetest Thing is a lovely little pop song.
Another rule of music as far as i can see is that the longer performers go on the worse their music gets as a rule, I cite Elton John, McCartney and Bowie as examples.

kwinigolfer wrote:THE Woodstock is in New York, about fifty miles south of the State Capital, Albany. But there's a perfectly good Woodstock in VT, quite upmarket and twee I understand - never been!

Great! It means I'll probably never know for sure if I went through THE Woodstock or through the VT version...

Fair enough D4S, I don't deny you the right to like them, I just don't think they are particularly talented, individual or credible not to mention that I doubt they'll be around in 6 months time, but then I seem to dislike all that is popular.
To me they are just the musical equivalent of Lorraine Kelly, drab, unopinionated, no edge, no emotion or soul, just do what they are told and what to sing.

super_realist wrote:Fair enough D4S, I don't deny you the right to like them, I just don't think they are particularly talented, individual or credible not to mention that I doubt they'll be around in 6 months time, but then I seem to dislike all that is popular.
To me they are just the musical equivalent of Lorraine Kelly, drab, unopinionated, no edge, no emotion or soul, just do what they are told and what to sing.

Plenty of great singers arent great songwriters. I dont think Aretha Franklin or Nina Simone are renown for writing lyrics or musical arrangements. Record labels have been telling performers what to sing for decades. People seem to deride X Factor as they seem to think its the easy option, strikes me that winning a competition that 10's of thousands of people enter is far, far from easy.

Zutons are/were decent. Got the album featuring their version of Valarie somewhere.

I quite like U2 but wouldnt call myself a fan. I think U2 suffer from Bono uttering the same words over and over again anytime he speaks, that and Diggers 'lifeline rule' above, which is hard to argue with! I like Bowie but some of his recent stuff I really cant listen to.

All the U2 chat reminds me of one of my favourite funniest TV moments. It was on Shooting Stars, TV marmite, and during the quick fire round the contestants were asked, "Who released the album, Joshua Tree?"

"U2"

"Nope. Nothing to do with us!"

Diggers, I'll credit X Factor with one thing. It keeps the masses away from credible music, thus keeping it away from the cliche of being mainstream.

I'd describe the products of X Factor as being "music" for people who don't like music.

What do you call credible music SR ?

Beth Orton - there's a name i've not heard in a long time. Used to love her stuff. Good shout SR.

Orton and Couting Crows got me through college and uni!

D4S, i heard Rebecca Ferguson on the radio the other day talking about her new album. Think it'll be out soon. Keep your eyes peeled

Diggers,
What I mean is that if you truly like music, you don't need to be told what to listen to by the likes of the transparent and blatantly cynical Cowell.
All the fake tears, fake emotion and over acting by the participants has nothing to do with their love of music or their so-called desire to have always been singers, it's all to do with becoming famous.

That programme has two aims. Firstly to make money for Cowell, and secondly to entertain by virtue of a tired and contrived formula. They could be singing nursery rhymes and it wouldn't matter because it's a popularity contest and nothing to do with unearthing a truly talented or different singer.

I think sometimes you have to give people a bit of credit SR. My wife knows more about how TV works than either of us will ever know, she loves the show. She loves a lot of muisc, some of it Im sure even you would have to admit to being credible. (I see you shy away from saying what you find credible as quite frankly its very easy to pick anyones taste apart)
For you to say the show hasnt unearthed any talented individuals or showcased any talented performances only proves one thing, you havent watched it much.
How do you know that they just want to be famous ? You dont know anything about these people, there are thousands s of them that enter the show, I know you arent stupid enough to think they all have exactly the same personality and dreams, or at least I hope you are not.

How about some golf related songs? Eg:-

The Birdie song
Anything by the Eagles
The Par of love
Who's going to drive you long?
Shanks for the memories.
Bogey Wonderland
Rescue me
Fairway to Heaven
The green,green grass of home
Holed me now
Club tropicana
3 is the magic number
Anything by Dr Hook,Fats Domino or Thin Lizzy

My life in music

Clancy's/Corries
Mo'town
Beach Boys
Byrds
Crosby, Stills ,Nash and Young
No one in the 80's that was a really cr@p period.
Runrig
Ally Bain / Phil Cunningham
Snow Patrol
Eddie Reader.

Diggers/SR

I give you Susan Boyle I think she was X Factor.

Wonderful voice, dreadful image the 'panalists' did not have a clue how to react to her [I would imagine, as I don't watch the show]

Diggers, I don't think you have to like something for it to be considered credible. personally I'd think that if someone has written, sung and performed a track with genuine emotion then that is a lot more credible than someone who has been manufactured through a cowell production line where you are told how to look and what to sing. Let's not forget what monstorsities his label has unleashed. Cowell by his very nature doesn't have a credible artist on his books

doon, I don't think boyle is particularly talented, but her lack of convention and potential for rags to riches was a godsend for cowell. He couldn't fail. It's all about the 'entertainment'of the show, not music.

They do exist before they go on the show you know, they are given a voice and a talent in their own right. Like I say the record companies have been doing exactly what cowell is doing for decades and many of the great songs arent written by the artist who is kown for performing them. Cant see a lot of difference really, on the whole music has always been a popularity contest, if you arent popular people wont buy your records of go to your gigs whether your are Bob Dylan or Jedward.