The golfers' Music Room

First topic message reminder :

Mac started a really good thread today and while I'm not as fussy about things going off topic as some people, it does seem a shame to drown out Mac's thread with music chat - so I think we'll have a music corner for us golfers (in addition to the forum-wide music section)

I know Kwini is keen on his music, often throwing musical references into his ballwasher topics (I remember one of his last efforts on the old site being entitled The Boys Are Back In Town, and the conversation going off into Thin Lizzy territory!

S_R (on the other thread) made a reference to "hating the Beatles" - discuss!

I hope when purveyors of awful music like Bono, Elton John or Robbie Williams finally die that people don't go into sycophantic mode and say it's a tragedy. It will be a relief for most.

All in the eye of the beholder, super. (Tho' "tragedy" is most unlikely to be the sentiment expressed, however much you loathe or love them.)

Rick Parfitt really did live the rock n roll lifestyle. I recall hearing him saying they were only at live aid and band aid to be the chemists! The music was good though. Maybe went on a while, but why stop when you enjoy it and get paid!

Unfortunately we can add one more great to the list..

With Greg Lake, that's three in less than a month. None reached 70.

Surely it must just be a Careless Whisper?...

Rip george. What a great voice he had. Such a terrible shame.

kwinigolfer wrote:All in the eye of the beholder, super. (Tho' "tragedy" is most unlikely to be the sentiment expressed, however much you loathe or love them.)

I wouldnt' wish anyone dead, but in music terms, I won't miss George Michaels brand of drivel in the slightest.

Drivel? George Michael had a wonderful voice, and produced so many classic songs. Dont think anyone, that is a fan of music, can say that some of his songs are not quality.

You dont need to be a fan to ubderstand good songs. Im not a fan of pop groups but can accept a good pop song. Music fans should not pigeonhole and shoild embrace everything.

beninho wrote:Drivel? George Michael had a wonderful voice, and produced so many classic songs. Dont think anyone, that is a fan of music, can say that some of his songs are not quality.

You dont need to be a fan to ubderstand good songs. Im not a fan of pop groups but can accept a good pop song. Music fans should not pigeonhole and shoild embrace everything.

As Kwini said, it's all in the eye of the beholder. I can't stand the genre of he belonged to, and I really don't like his voice either. I don't have to pretend I have respect for him or acknowledge that he was good either, because I don't think he was.

What was his genre? I honestly dont think he could fit into a genre. You really dont think any of his songs are good? I accept you have opinions its just you must be very narrow minded in your musical opinions. You dont have to like something to accept it is good at what it is. I dont like lots of pop type songs, but sone are very good pop songs. Im notbig on classical style music but some of it is amazing. Open your mind.

No, I genuinely don't like any of his songs.

I don't like it, so why should I "open my mind"to it. It's invaded airwaves for years, and I still don't like it.

His song "faith" in particular was just guff, much like what I think of Prince's stuff.

Ok. You clearly are not a fan of music.

Why? Because I don't like Prince or George Michael? Who made you the arbiter of what makes a music fan or not?

Sorry, I should of said it appears to me, and based on the views that you have stated, that you do not appreciate music. Thats not to say you dont like some music. Its just music fans can appreciate different forms, not write off a genre or act based on a few songs. All just my opinion though.

You exist in a very dark place Super, It can't be good for your mental health.

Be_the_ball wrote:You exist in a very dark place Super, It can't be good for your mental health.

How exactly? By not being partial to mainstream music?

beninho wrote:Sorry, I should of said it appears to me, and based on the views that you have stated, that you do not appreciate music. Thats not to say you dont like some music. Its just music fans can appreciate different forms, not write off a genre or act based on a few songs. All just my opinion though.

That's just complete claptrap. One mans music is another man's strangled cat. Not appreciating the ghastly sounds of George Michael, U2, Leonard Cohen or Prince does not make you a musical philistine. I can appreciate all sorts of music, but I don't see anything to appreciate about any of those acts.

I don't like the sort of music that any of those make. That's not my fault, and I can't force myself to like it, and I'm not trying to be contrary or alternative by not liking it. It just doesn't float my boat, but by not liking it, it doesn't make me any less interested in music than you are, and you liking them, doesn't make your musical taste any more credible and it certainly doesn't make you more of a "music fan"

We're getting to the stage where dozens of artsists who we grew up with are reaching their average life expectancy, whether due to normal living or addiction-fuelled self-destruction.
Difficult to believe Leonard Cohen lived to be 82, but thrilled that he did, and Chuck Berry must be defying the odds big time to reach his 91st year.
I'm with super in it being OK not liking certain genres of anything; but sooner or later there needs to be an inadvertent slip, saying what you actually DO like! (May be that he's just pissed of that the Alexandrov Ensemble are in the drink?)

Prince and george michael made different trypes of music,they didnt have there own sort of music. Im not big on prince but can appreciate he produced some gpod songs. George michael had a wonderful voice, I saw him play a few years back with an orchestra, and he was bang on throughout. Again im not his biggest fan, but some of his tracks are very good pop songs.

Its your opinion though, even though I think its absurd.

kwinigolfer wrote:We're getting to the stage where dozens of artsists who we grew up with are reaching their average life expectancy, whether due to normal living or addiction-fuelled self-destruction.
Difficult to believe Leonard Cohen lived to be 82, but thrilled that he did, and Chuck Berry must be defying the odds big time to reach his 91st year.
I'm with super in it being OK not liking certainly genres of anything; but sooner or later there needs to be an inadvertent slip, saying what you actually DO like! (May be that he's just pissed of that the Alexandrov Ensemble are in the drink?)

I have no issues not liking a genre,I am not at all taken with jazz, but I can appreciate the playing skills. Same with bands like take that, rule the world is a superb pop song.

super_realist wrote:

Be_the_ball wrote:You exist in a very dark place Super, It can't be good for your mental health.

How exactly? By not being partial to mainstream music?

No, you just don't seem to have a good word to say about anything or anyone. I just don't think that's healthy.

You don't have to "like" someone to appreciate their talent. I don't particularly "like" operatic music but you can't help but accept what amazing voices some of the performers have. The same is true of pop/rock music

A lot of what Prince did was overly self indulgent but I did like a lot of his stuff. Regardless though it's a strange person who couldn't recognize the talent that lay beneath the strange exterior. I'd put him right up their with Lennon and McCartney, Freddie, Elvis, Bowie etc. in terms of either talent or charisma (or both). George Michael is in that same category.

George Michael had one of THE voices of a generation. No I didn't like ALL of his material but to suggest he had either no talent or influence to a generation simply shows ignorance

I probably should add "in my opinion" but I'd take a bet that in this instance, my opinion agrees with far more other people that those who disagree

.a lot more eloquently than ive bern trying to say, good post davie

Have to say I wasn't a fan but accept that he was considered very highly talented by millions and influential by many musicians.
What I do find odd is the way the media are portraying the story...i.e. died peacefully from heart failure....I could be wrong, he could have spent the last year or so in rehab but the last I heard he was a hopeless crack addict hellbent on self destruction so anything but a peaceful way to go.

There is surely more to the death then been released. He seems to have been out of control for a while, and had various incidents.

@Benhino - I know nothing more than the media has reported but from the slant they put on it, he has been far more reclusive and (maybe) more level headed since his brush with pneumonia a while ago which nearly finished him off. Allegedly he was back on the straight and narrow and was planning on relaunching his career in 2017.

Pinch of salt and all that but even more sad if it was true. Of course his previous lifestyle may have led to his untimely death (like Rick Parfitt)

Prince also died of heart failure. But why did the heart fail? Too much dope for too long, unfortunately.

Both Prince and GM wrote, produced and performed their own stuff. That's a rarity these days, especially when they did well so.

Yes taste is taste, some like blondes some brunettes, but both Prince and GM wrote great songs that will survive for a long time. Put on some old Wham stuff or some of his upbeat 90's songs and the dance floor is full. Think supers grapes are sour because he never pulled to any of the GM songs.

beninho wrote:Prince and george michael made different trypes of music,they didnt have there own sort of music. Im not big on prince but can appreciate he produced some gpod songs. George michael had a wonderful voice, I saw him play a few years back with an orchestra, and he was bang on throughout.  Again im not his biggest fan, but some of his tracks are very good pop songs.

Its your opinion though, even though I think its absurd.

Did he have a "wonderful" voice? Didn't seem like it to me. I can appreciate the musical skills of music I don't like in terms of musical instruments, but I don't think having a singing voice is something that is worthy of appreciation really.

I'm probably about 5-10 years too young to have grown up in the Prince/Michael era anyway.

super_realist wrote:
Did he have a wonderful voice? Didn't seem like it to me.

As I said earlier it's all subjective and a matter of opinion - but I think you'll find more people agree with my opinion (and beninho's) than yours.

Doesn't make you wrong - just wrong in the eyes of the majority

Davie wrote:

super_realist wrote:
Did he have a wonderful voice? Didn't seem like it to me.

As I said earlier it's all subjective and a matter of opinion - but I think you'll find more people agree with my opinion (and beninho's) than yours.

Doesn't make you wrong - just wrong in the eyes of the majority

Doesn't make it any less valid though, opinions are opinions aren't they, and you don't get to use the argument from popularity to give yours more kudos.

Couple of reasons why I liked George, or at least will remember him fondly. Firstly, Kissing a Fool is a great song that for some reason never gets a mention. Secondly, whilst listening to Last Christmas a young lady did something's to me that I'd never had done before!
Re opinions Super, I suspect there is always someone, who for whatever reason, thinks someone is rubbish when most feel they were fantastic. So by that argument nobody can actually be proved to be good at anything.
To back George's claim -
Millions liked the sound of his voice and bought his records.
Yesterday I heard lots of producers, let's say industry experts, eulogise about his recording voice.
Some artists sound awful live, they just don't tour. He could make a full stadium hand on every note. Watch him perform Somebody to Love at the Queen tribute concert, I think that shows him do this.
So yeah, everyone can have an opinion, but ultimately you have to give substance to an opinion to give it validity.

Surely a good singing voice is capable of definition in terms of range, tone, depth etc? I come from a family containing some amazing singing voices (not me) and they are easily distinguishable from the rest - even if you might not be that keen on what they are singing!

Diggers wrote:Secondly, whilst listening to Last Christmas a young lady did something's to me that I'd never had done before!

Hope that wasn't at school Digs. There are rules about that you know. Maybe you should listen to another song for guidance, try "don't stand so close to me " by the police.

Hope you are well. Welcome back!

Ha Ray, no, around the time of my 6th form years, so over 30 years ago. It was probably a "Didn't Last Long Christmas" to be fair.

Diggers wrote:Couple of reasons why I liked George, or at least will remember him fondly. Firstly, Kissing a Fool is a great song that for some reason never gets a mention. Secondly, whilst listening to Last Christmas a young lady did something's to me that I'd never had done before!
Re opinions Super, I suspect there is always someone, who for whatever reason, thinks someone is rubbish when most feel they were fantastic. So by that argument nobody can actually be proved to be good at anything.
To back George's claim -
Millions liked the sound of his voice and bought his records.
Yesterday I heard lots of producers, let's say industry experts, eulogise about his recording voice.
Some artists sound awful live, they just don't tour. He could make a full stadium hand on every note. Watch him perform Somebody to Love at the Queen tribute concert, I think that shows him do this.
So yeah, everyone can have an opinion, but ultimately you have to give substance to an opinion to give it validity.

That's just a spectacular cliché Diggers, you could make the same tired sentimental comment about the fans of any particular singer or band.

Well again, that's just your opinion. Simple fact is not every great recording artist is generally considered to be great live, GM was held in high esteem on both counts by.
But it is one of only several criteria I've listed, many people on here have made a credible case for him to be considered worthy of having a great voice. I don't really see any argument from you other than subjectively you didn't like it. Fair enough, but that just takes you back to my comment that nobody can rightfully be considered good at anything. Which, lets face it, is utter nonsense.

Everything popular is sh#t diggers. If its not romanian folk trance fusion only heard by 37 people i'm not keen.

Howdie Ben, you and the family keeping well?
Yeah, sometimes stuff can be popular just because it's pretty good. I must be shallow because in general when I buy an album because I like a few singles, almost invariably it's the singles that remain my favourite songs.
As I get older I've definitely mellowed, my wife said the other day she didn't agree with guilty pleasures, they were just pleasures. She doesn't say much that makes sense, but I liked that theory.

Diggers wrote:Well again, that's just your opinion. Simple fact is not every great recording artist is generally considered to be great live, GM was held in high esteem on both counts by.
But it is one of only several criteria I've listed, many people on here have made a credible case for him to be considered worthy of having a great voice. I don't really see any argument from you other than subjectively you didn't like it. Fair enough, but that just takes you back to my comment that nobody can rightfully be considered good at anything. Which, lets face it, is utter nonsense.

Of course people can be considered great at something, I'm not so sure being born with a voice is a talent though.
I'm sure he could sing, like tons of others, but I'm not keen on the sound of his voice, nor his songs either.

My point is that before he died, I was wondering if there would be a simpering and sanctimonious reaction when someone less well liked died. Michael hadn't done anything in an absolute age, yet as soon as he dies, people (not necessarily here) are fawning over him like we've lost a legend of the music world when whilst he was still alive, they couldn't give a toss. Funny how people react to death in that it somehow means they need to be overly generous about the guy.

super_realist wrote:I hope when purveyors of awful music like Bono, Elton John or Robbie Williams finally die that people don't go into sycophantic mode and say it's a tragedy. It will be a relief for most.

super,
I think you're being very consistent!

Having said which, it's very seldom someone dies and gets nothing but vitriol hurled at them, the sort of lurid "rolling drunk when he wasn't strung out on heroin, laid everything but the carpet, and a lying swine who would kill his mother if the price was right" obituary.

Not sure I follow your logic really. Are they meant to spend their whole lives totally obsessed by him? Clearly his halcyon days were long gone, doesn't mean millions of people still didn't play his music and enjoy it. Clearly when someone dies you are going to celebrate their achievements and we are reminded of times past, so this is to a degreesentimentality. But we are only sentimental because the person in question once did something we really enjoyed.

Like the young lady as you were busy listening to Last Christmas?

Exactly, and even though I haven't a clue what she has done for the past 30 years, if I found out she had just died I would celebrate her for that fine (and brief) moment!

Hey diggers, im good and still enjoying fatherhood, little man two and half now. Has had an impact on my golf as cant have had more than 8 games the ladt year, and was consistently inconsistent!

My music taste is still based on bands I used to like and the occasional new song, though dont think ive brought anyything for ages, but human by rag bone man is a goid bew one!

For the record, "Tumbleweed Connection" is a monster piece of work by Elton John. Fact.

Elton is literally from my area,not far from george actually. And while heis amassice diva and plays up to it, I do like him!

Super

It is not clear to me whether you are saying that on a technical/skills level there is something wrong with George Micheal's music or that you understand that his musical talents and singing voice are technically very good but that your taste does not cover the type of music he produces?

A lot of us footie fans of a certain age knew a lot more about Elton's cousin before we'd ever heard of him . . . . . .

39 years ago I was at a Wembley Arena concert when Elton said he was finished with touring. Wonder how that went? Glad he changed his mind.

Chuck Berry dead at 90.
Headlined the first concert I ever attended, at the Soton Gaumont, with The Animals pre-HOTRS fame but they still played it, on the undercard, plus Carl Perkins's Blue Suede Shoes and much more.
Where would 60's "Rock" be without Chuck Berry? Legend.