Walker Cup

First topic message reminder :

I noted a verbal plug during the coverage of the Women's British Open, but can now see from the listings that the BBC are broadcasting action from the Walker Cup next weekend.

Pardon my ignorance, but do the Beeb normally cover the Walker Cup?

Otherwise, any views / learned commentary about this event?

kwinigolfer wrote:Sorry about that gael, didn't occur to me that you were infected with the US "tape delay" virus. That's not like GB&I TV is it?

Mucho apologies.

No probs kwini. You did mention earlier that Senior had won his (4somes) match so, should've twigged that you were following it from the net. Tape delay is the scourge of 'live' sport but, given it was but a mere amateur golf event, inevitable, although I would add that the coverage itself was excellent ... for a mere amateur event!

Strewth, that was a bit too close! As someone mentioned earlier on though, it was noticeable the difference the dropping wind made to the american comeback. Very enjoyable and thoroughly absorbing.

That's a terrific win by GB&I after the American press drumming in to unsuspecting consumers all summer how red hot the US youngsters are.

Clearly some will go on to enjoy great pro careers but hopefully these Walker Cup winners will also make their mark in the pro game.

Coincidentally I noticed that the 1999 winning team at Nairn, led by Casey and Donald, also included Simon Dyson who enjoyed some success of his own today. Karma.

Well guys, how good did the course look?

A pity the cameras did not cover the first 9 which is the better 9.

Scottie,
It wasn't on over here, but I remember parts of the course as it was a few years ago from the Senior British Open coverage - always looked an excellent test.

First of all, many congratulations to the GB & I team. A good win even though it was a bit closer than it probably should have been!!

Like many I watched the coverage on BBC and was heartily sick of the cameras showing spectators or the sea after practically every shot. I really don't care if a cute child is doing something, er, cute or a couple are huddled under an umbrella. I want to watch golf and you can't tell me there aren't any shots they could be showing.

My second gripe (and I'm likely to get criticised heavily for this) is that I was a little underwhelmed by the quality of golf played. It seemed to me that nobody was able to play a knockdown, links-type shot (as Peter Alliss mentioned on a number of occassions!!) which the conditions surely dictated. I was also surprised at how many bad shots from around the green I saw. As many have mentioned, these guys are full-time amateurs (apart from Nathan Smith, seemingly) so I would not expect to see so many chips being thinned across the green with only the rough on the other side stopping it.

I should add that I would probably struggle to break 100 round that course in that weather but I only play once a week!!

Let the abuse begin................

Humpyd

Agree with you to a certain extent re. quality of links play by the teams.
I always find it interesting to see that the USA non links players seem to play the links shots better than the UK&I players who are more used to the conditions.

Hogan, Trevino, Saunders, Lema, Watson, Daly, Rogers and Hamilton all played 'proper' links shots whilst many European players still played the high ball.

I know the Texans are used to the wind but I don't think all of the above are from there.

I also noticed how 'flat' Tom Lewis looked, almost as if he was going through motions, with his mind on other things...........

Humptyd,

I agree the standard was mixed on the back 9 into the strong wind. Perhaps the standard was better on the front 9 but no coverage of the first 7 holes (I completely understand why bbc did not cover the front 9 - cost of additional cameras and most of the action in matchplay happend on the back 9).

I did watch both teams during one of the practice rounds and they played enough good shots in a breeze to impress me. I can only assume knock down 7 irons from 110 yards, knock down 5 irons from 150 yards and only hitting it 200 yards with a 3 woods takes some practice.

A bit like Rory at the Open. Why change your game for one torunament.

If there had been no wind (does sometimes happen on links courses) then I think several of the players would have been several under par.

I'd like to think that in a few years when Tom Lewis loses a playoff at Sandwich to Patrick Cantlay and we recycle the 'how come the Americans play better than UK golfers at the Open when it blows' debate, and people come out with the claptrap about how our amateurs grew up playing links golf in the wind so should be masters at it by now, my memory will be good enough to refer them back to this thread!

Scottie, which players stood out for you from what you saw with a view to making it in the pro game?

Rhys Pugh seems a very good prospect.

Humpyd ...

In total agreement with you on all those points.

Excellent win for GB & I, on a course I know well, although as usual we almost made a complete horlicks of the singles!

As for the Beeb Coverage ... Glad it was on at all, I suppose, but the coverage was pretty dire. We saw much more of the scoreboards (did we really need an update every 30 seconds yesterday?) and spectators than actual golf shots. It was often a 50/50 shout whether there would be a caption telling the viewer what a putt was for, so following the "action" was frustrating to say the least. They even missed the moment the Cup was won, which was really the climax of Pugh's game. Both players hit over the green, then next thing we see is shaking hands! Coverage also ended with games still in progress, and long before the presentation of the trophy. Why no red button coverage on the Sunday?

Totally agree on the overall standard of play. Thought it was pretty poor TBH. Yes, the conditions were difficult, but they barely found a fairway on the back 9, and there was some woeful stuff from 120 yards and closer.

Delighted with the result though!

Yes, I thought the Welsh lad in particular showed a lot of steel, and from what I saw was probably my "man of the matches" (albeit including his age as one of the factors). The captain and his whole team deserve many congratulations though for the result and the manner in which they won.

I was though left wondering what the heck happened in the last match between Cutler and Cantlay, after the TV coverage ended. Appears that the final result was halved, which is a bit annoying given Cutler was dormie 4 up, and was going for 4 points from 4. Cantlay birdied last 4 holes to Cutler's 4 pars according to website.

I'm not au fait with the entry requirements, but does anyone know if Tom Lewis will be invited to the Masters next year, as silver medallist from The Open? Does it matter if he's no longer an amateur at that time?

Sky,
Don't think so, not if Lewis turns pro. And The Open silver medal is not a Masters entry criteria.

OK, thanks. I was aware that there are some places reserved for amateurs, and in particular recall Mannasero playing at Augusta but not exactly why/how (and I think he might have turned pro the day after the event, suggesting he needed to remain in the unpaid ranks for the duration of the tournament at least).

My underlying question I suppose was whether there was any difficult decision for Tom in his timing for changing status (i.e. effectively turning down the chance to play the Masters), but it seems not.

Sky,
The British Amateur Champion is invited but can only play if he retains his amateur status, the same stipulation as applies to each invitee via the amateur ranks.

Skydriver, Manassero won the Amateur Championship in 2009 gaining an invite to the 2010 Masters.

I doubt whether it was a difficult decision for Tom Lewis to turn pro. I think he said in an interview that he wanted to play Walker Cup so makes sense to turn pro straight after. I'm sure he'll be a wealthy man as soon as he turns pro, being able to take up various sponsorship deals but he obviously needs to do the business on the course.

I followed the entire team round 3 or 4 holes at Carnoustie when they played a practice round on Wednesday. The ball striking was very impressive but I'm not convinced they managed their games particularly well in the windy conditions. I heard that several of them shot 77's round Carnoustie in a bit of a hoolie. I played an hour or so behind them and shot 85 off the same tees and I'm just a club handicap golfer.

I don't think Lewis will make it as a pro.

It is always a difficult task to spot the one who will make it.
Pugh really impressed me so did English.
I was involved in the 1998 European Junior Championships, shortly followed by the Jaqueue Leguaise [cue the spelling polis] Trophy. The stand out player was Imolen. He was playing off +5. Donald looked too small and weak, Casey was swinging by numbers, Khan and Colesarts were very impressive to me.
Go back a few years when Gordon Sherry won the last 4 holes off David Howell in the British semi. Sherry was the stand out player of that time, finished higher than Lewis in The Open . He's coaching now. Howler has won 14 million euros.

gaelgowfer wrote:Turned out one of the english players (Jack? Senior) had his brother caddieing for him. No probs with that. Unfortunately, it transpired he is also a professional.

Senior claimed he had been told by 'others' this was ok (really, how could it be?) and indeed, Nigel Edwards (GB&I captain) who knew Senior's bro was a professional also claimed he had been told it was ok (really, truthfully, how could anyone in their right mind ever think it could ever be?). Question is, who told 'em? Peter Dawson (R&A CEO) was very tight-lipped on the issue, claiming only that it had come to their attention that a professional had been caddieing for a GB&I team member. He then wittered on about it having been clearly stated in 'bumph' that professionals were not allowed thereby skillfully deflecting any further probing as to whom the eejit wis wot told player (who should have known better) and Team Captain (who certainly should have known better) that it was ok for a bleedin' professional to caddie for an amateur in an amateur event!!!

But is is ok for a professional golfer to caddie in a Amateur event, nothing in the rules of golf to say they can't. This was a breach of the Competition Rules for the Walker Cup, and would only apply in other amateur events if the rules for that Competetion specifically said so.

Humptyd,

To be honest I only knew some of the names and not enough to match the names to the faces when I watched the practice round. It was more about watching the swings and ball stricking as a whole. The ball sticking by all was impressive with driver, 3 wood and long irons.

Few of the guys were real tall and most very slim (the advantage of youth). I noticed they all stood tall to the ball and kept their height and width at the top of the swing and kept the width on the downswing which probably explains why they hit it miles.

It did make we wonder why some of the top pros bulk up so much (Westwood, Tiger, Phil etc..), but I guess even if you can hit is 290 yards your always going to want to hit it 310 yards.

The US team spent 10 minutes round each green with some practice pitching and other practice putting. They practiced the tricky pitches from the run off areas but insisted on using high loft wedges and nipping shots with spin. Rather than pumping a 9 iron half way up a bank they had to judge catching the last few feet of the bank or it came back to their feet. On some occassions they had 7 or 8 goes before getting it close. Too much loft and sharp grooves is not the percentage shot round links greens. Very surprising they did not adapt better as at the weekend there were a number of poor chips.

One thing is for sure, they are all glad it was played last week.
Batten down the hatches, big storm just about to hit Ayrshire then the Central belt.

Doon, just get yourself out there and start hitting knee high 3 irons 200 yards into the wind!!

Seems to have gone just north of us, what I would call a 7 club wind at the moment.

gotta love those 7-club winds! quite fancied a game today (was going to give the 1 iron a bash!) but the rain has put me off. strong winds are one thing, but when you get the rain aswell it loses its appeal.

Doon the Water wrote:I don't think Lewis will make it as a pro.

It is always a difficult task to spot the one who will make it.

I have no strong view (in either "messiah" or "false prophet" direction), but based on what I've seen so far, I wouldn't be surprised if he has a career path similar to that of say Justin Rose. I read somewhere that Pete Cowen doesn't usually work with amateurs, so presumably he sees potential.

ban_bam wrote:gotta love those 7-club winds! quite fancied a game today (was going to give the 1 iron a bash!) but the rain has put me off. strong winds are one thing, but when you get the rain aswell it loses its appeal.

I did once play in the tail end of a hurricane. TBH it was probably quite foolish as there was lumps of tree blowing around but it was an interesting experience.

There was one par-3 that was only about 150 yards. One of my playing partners absolutely flushed a 3-wood but the headwind got hold of it, ballooning it up and I swear it only got half way there!

Playing yesterday in a fairly strong wind, there is one hole where I regularly find myself about 210 yards out and with lots of trouble around the green I usually lay up. Yesterday took me 2 6-irons to get there!

looking out the window it looks like you could flush a wedge and have it end up behind you right now.
a couple of months ago playing our 16th into a strong wind i flushed a 6iron from about 150yards thinking it would get there no problem, but it got about 2/3 of the way there before it started coming backwards, eventually leaving me with a 80 yard shot in. suppose that was about an 8-club wind?!

Probably the best 9 holes I played was at a Winter Alliance meeting on Gullane No2.
It was a howling westerly gale with the a soaking 5 minute downpour every 20 minutes.
The outward 9 on No 2 is a tough half and I scored 41 which I knew would be miles ahead of anyone else.
Lost the plot coming back in 43, overhitting everything into unplayable lies.
As Jaz said at The Tassie it's not so easy with a big wind behind you.
My 84 finished 3rd with the winner scoring 79. At the presentation the Captain said that the 79 pro rata equalled the course record.

I thought the scores in the Tassie were good this year - about 30 people breaking 80 at Carnoustie?