Inconvenient truth - Boxing will miss the Klits!!

Whilst I think having two brothers holding the greatest prize in sports simultaneously cheapens Boxing....Makes the greatest prize seem almost easy to win........Bit like the williams sisters in tennis....(Great achievements like conquering Everest etc should ideally be for those with great heart, ambition and talent.._

One has to admit that once these guys go there is nothing left!!! No charisma, no real talent (not that these guys had much)....

In fairness they have brought dignity to the sport and whilst they haven't transcended they have brought a modicum of skill and prestige to the game..

Worry for Boxing is.. it was deteriorating with these guys in charge except for the brief Haye episode which ended in a shambles!!!

What the hell is it going to be like after they have gone....???

My American bros aren't up to it and Price and Fury are lacking in either talent or charisma...

Boxing is synergesic if the heavies are exciting it reaches down to the lower weights and garners interest...good for the sport!!

Inconvenient truth is we'll miss the Klits........enjoy them while they are here I suppose!

The overall skill level of the HW division will drop, that is for sure Truss, however I think it will once more become very competitive, with guys of a similar size and stature, and similar skill levels, providing us with some very entertaining fights. That might have a positive effect, also, in it's own strange way.

Fists of Fury wrote:The overall skill level of the HW division will drop, that is for sure Truss, however I think it will once more become very competitive, with guys of a similar size and stature, and similar skill levels, providing us with some very entertaining fights. That might have a positive effect, also, in it's own strange way.

Not sure. How much interest in taken in the best of the rest, Povetkin vs Chagaev for example?

The Ks provide entertainment in their entrances at least and they at least feel like title fights.

Not really inconvenient, Truss, simply the truth.

The only thing that saves this from being unquestionably the weakest heavyweight era in history (rather than post-Tunney and pre-Louis or post-Holmes and pre-Tyson, for example) is the presence of the two brothers. They have their faults, they may be robotic at times, slightly uninteresting as fighters, perhaps. They are, however, admirable athletes, hard workers, engaging and articulate in at least four languages and a credit to themselves and their country.

I don't see anything remotely as good on the horizon; I suspect the post-Klitschko era will be the one to be definitively marked as the worst in heavyweight history when the record comes to be written.

I think as soon as they go we're end up in the situation where HW belts change hands with every fight.

Can't say I'm looking forward to not knowing who the HW champ is from one week to the next.

Can't say the Klits are really my cup of tea but they conduct themselves well and will be looked on more fondly in future than they are now.

I find it completely and utterly incomprehendible that you say the sport will miss them. Networks arent' interested in them barring RTL and the boxing community doesn't really care for them - how many times do you see news stories regarding either dominating websites, or forums going bonkers about them?

I find it hard to comprehend how a sport can miss someone when it doesn't give two hoots about them in the first place.

They'll simply be replaced by heavies who won't dominate which is probably a good thing (and won't dominate by boxing in far eastern europe each time), by that i mean the likes of Arreola, Povetkin, Helenius, Adamek and the up n comers like Fury and co could all in theory provide some decent scraps and the belts would change hands that much more often. Adamak vs Arreola was probably the last decent heavyweight scrap, imagine if we get 6 of those per year.

Sorry Truss, but the sport doesn't care for them and certainly won't miss them.

Scottrf wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:The overall skill level of the HW division will drop, that is for sure Truss, however I think it will once more become very competitive, with guys of a similar size and stature, and similar skill levels, providing us with some very entertaining fights. That might have a positive effect, also, in it's own strange way.

Not sure. How much interest in taken in the best of the rest, Povetkin vs Chagaev for example?

The Ks provide entertainment in their entrances at least and they at least feel like title fights.

Good point, it'll certainly take a new crop of exciting young fighters in order for my (admittedly very hopeful) prediction to come to fruition!

coxy0001 wrote:how many times do you see news stories regarding either dominating websites, or forums going bonkers about them?

Check out the Eastside general forum (if you're a sadist).

coxy0001 wrote:I find it completely and utterly incomprehendible that you say the sport will miss them. Networks arent' interested in them barring RTL

And Main Event, ESPN Brasil, TV+, RING.BG, HBO Canada, Nova TV, Sport 2, TV 2 Sport, Sky Pacific World PPV, Orange Sport, Duna TV, Stöð 2 Sport, RCTI, Sport +5 LIVE, Sportitalia 2, WOWOW, Lietuvos ryto TV, Macedonian Radio-Television, Astro SuperSport 2, Viasat Sport, AKTV, TVP 1, TVP Sport, Sport TV 2, Al Jazeera Sport 1, Al Jazeera Sports +3, Pro TV, Sport.ro, Russia 2, Sport 1, Sport 2, Taquilla 1, SuperSport, TV10, FOX, Inter, Sky.

No one is saying they are great leaders for the sport Coxy....

But like when a Roman Emperor like Tiberius dies and the nation raves in ecstacy..just remember Caligula is waiting in the wings!!!

Scottrf wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:I find it completely and utterly incomprehendible that you say the sport will miss them. Networks arent' interested in them barring RTL

And Viasat Sport, AKTV, TVP 1, TVP Sport, Sport TV 2, Al Jazeera Sport 1, Al Jazeera Sports +3, Pro TV, Sport.ro, Russia 2, Sport 1, Sport 2, Taquilla 1, SuperSport, TV10, FOX, Inter, Sky.

Lets not get pedantic now!

And Truss, i just get the impression no-one really cares for them... and it will be good once they gone. We'd certainly have some far more entertaining fights for the "belts" than we've had for years. The thought of Fury going up against say Arreola is far more exciting than thinking Fury is going to get his head jabbed off in another borefest in some German stadium full of tumbleweed.

Yes but wouldn't you rather have a quality champion than mediocre types fighting for the greatest prize!!!

Boxing needs figureheads not numpties...

It's a double edged sword. For me the question is, is a situation where there are more competitive fights but potentially four champions and the belts changing hands nigh on every time they are competed for better than we have now. For me I would be tempted to say it isn't.

For all their faults which have been debated ad nauseum, there are positives to the brothers, they bring something approaching clarity to the division, we may not have a clear number one but everyone knows who the best two are which is bnext best thing, and they represent the sport with dignity, class and are at least athletic and skilled, not sure the same can be said of the chasing pack

Pedantic? What you meant is HBO is only interested if they are in big fights, something quite different to networks in general not being interested at all. They are carried in hundreds of countries.

True.....

Once they've gone the division is pretty much devoid of any real talent.

Watching two overweight brawlers like Fury and Arreola fight for the HW prize devalues it in my eyes.

Makes me feel all sad and weepy

Simply can't agree with your premise at all, coxy. The idea that mediocrity is to be encouraged because at least every fighter is of a similar level of mediocrity seems like Alice in Wonderland thinking to me.

As I said, the brothers' style may not have been desperately exciting, but in a division with any talent, it wouldn't have been the insuperable barrier that it has appeared to be over the past few years. No-one has come anywhere near them.

What we are left to contemplate is the prospect of a scrap for the various belts by fighters who have been comprehensively dismantled by the Klitschkos (oh, plus Fury, Price and Helenius, as if they make the slightest difference to the case). The dearth of heavyweight talent has never been so apparent, and it's not an appetising proposition. The notion that these will be a series of magnificent contests is debatable at best, in any case. Adamek-Arreola wasn't, and I'm not sure that Chambers-Fury, for instance, would be either.

Let's face it, the outlook is bleak for the foreseeable future.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Yes but wouldn't you rather have a quality champion than mediocre types fighting for the greatest prize!!!

Boxing needs figureheads not numpties...

They're not quality champions, put Lewis in there with Wlad (with the same physical attributes) and he rips his head off whilst laughing at the Inbetweeners movie.

The division as a whole is poor, they're not top 30 all time heavies and yeah i'd rather see excitement in the marquee division than 2 brothers who are among the most boring boxers to watch (make Johnny Nelson look like Mickey Ward).

What good have they done for the heavyweight division? They haven't, they've been lambasted for boring, monotonous and quite a few other negatives.

Was OneBomb fighting at HW?

We've got him turning pro to look forward to.

Sir. badgerhands wrote:Was OneBomb fighting at HW?

We've got him turning pro to look forward to.

Ask Fists.

coxy0001 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Yes but wouldn't you rather have a quality champion than mediocre types fighting for the greatest prize!!!

Boxing needs figureheads not numpties...

What good have they done for the heavyweight division? .

Well off the top of my head I would argue they have massively broadened the appeal of the sport in countries where it has not traditionally been strong, surely increasing the global appeal of the sport would generally be considered a good thing. Same old Klitschko arguments on here, people only ever see the negative.

no one is disputing the fact they aren't great fighters Coxy.....

best around though...

captain carrantuohil wrote:Simply can't agree with your premise at all, coxy. The idea that mediocrity is to be encouraged because at least every fighter is of a similar level of mediocrity seems like Alice in Wonderland thinking to me.

As I said, the brothers' style may not have been desperately exciting, but in a division with any talent, it wouldn't have been the insuperable barrier that it has appeared over the past few years. No-one has come anywhere near them.

What we are left to contemplate is the prospect of a scrap for the various belts by fighters who have been comprehensively dismantled by the Klitschkos (oh, plus Fury, Price and Helenius, as if they make the slightest difference to the case). The dearth of heavyweight talent has never been so apparent, and it's not an appetising proposition. The notion that these will be a series of magnificent contests is debatable at best, in any case. Adamek-Arreola wasn't, and I'm not sure that Chambers-Fury, for instance, would be either.

Let's face it, the outlook is bleak for the foreseeable future.

Ward vs Gatti captured the publics imagination and they were fighting 10 rounders.

I'd rather watch an exciting fight than watch 2 guys jab, jab and jab some more to way of victory. How many times did Wlad take a chance against Haye? Near enough none.

In a poor, poor division i can't quite comprehend how you want to see 2 guys dominating who have zero inclination to travel (why is that by the way? is that because no-one outside of Germany gives two hoots about them?).

coxy0001 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Yes but wouldn't you rather have a quality champion than mediocre types fighting for the greatest prize!!!

Boxing needs figureheads not numpties...

They're not quality champions, put Lewis in there with Wlad (with the same physical attributes) and he rips his head off whilst laughing at the Inbetweeners movie.

The division as a whole is poor, they're not top 30 all time heavies and yeah i'd rather see excitement in the marquee division than 2 brothers who are among the most boring boxers to watch (make Johnny Nelson look like Mickey Ward).

What good have they done for the heavyweight division? They haven't, they've been lambasted for boring, monotonous and quite a few other negatives.

But what's the alternative Coxy? Where would the division have been without them for the last few years. You think it is bad now, just how bad would it have been?

coxy0001 wrote:Ward vs Gatti captured the publics imagination and they were fighting 10 rounders.

I'd rather watch an exciting fight than watch 2 guys jab, jab and jab some more to way of victory. How many times did Wlad take a chance against Haye? Near enough none.

In a poor, poor division i can't quite comprehend how you want to see 2 guys dominating who have zero inclination to travel (why is that by the way? is that because no-one outside of Germany gives two hoots about them?).

Why? Is that a genuine question?

A bar-room brawl captures people's imagination, coxy. One can enjoy it, while recognising its limitations.

How often did Larry Holmes travel? Or Holyfield, until he started tilting at windmills into his 40s? When did Marciano ever go abroad? Tyson went to Japan a couple of times in his incarnation as the unbeatable heavyweight terror, but that was all. The Klitschkos draw 50,000 or more in Germany, so that makes economic sense. You're not seriously suggesting it would make a lot of difference, are you? That Arreola was close enough to sneak past Klitschko if only the fight had been in Vegas? That Haye's little toe pain might have been assuaged by a switch to London? Come on, coxy, a little perspective.

Ultimately the travelling rap is a bit of a red herring, end of the day the brothers hold the belts it is the challengers responsbility to take it from them and as such their responsibility to travel to do so. Is why Hatton Floyd was at the MGM rather than Wembley and why Haye Wlad was in Germany rather than London. Would also add without doing the research, if we accept Germany as their bases both brothers number of fights outside that nation would compare relatively favourably with some other prominent world champions of recent vintage we could name

(Don't think i'm making a direct comparison!)

Gatti vs Ward

Or

Gatti vs FMJ

---------------------

Wlad vs Haye

Or

Wlad vs Arreola

Which would you rather pay to watch?

Kinda a warped point, but am in a rush so hopefully it comes across as to what i'm saying.

How many FOTYs have been involving big massive marquee divisional fighters? That's what attracts new fans to the sport, not 2 guys who are superior to an average crop boring the **** out of everyone who bothers to tune in.

The Arreola fight was in america!

The Adamek fight is in Poland.

The Lewis and Williams fights were also in America nad I think the Hide fight was in UK??

Coxy Floyd regularly does in excess of 1m on PPV, how many fights of the years has he been in? He tends to be far superior to his opposition and rarely loses a round.

You have to be great to be missed and neither brother is, boring as hell to watch, never take a chance, generally they appeal to the eastern european market and that's it, the sooner they're gone the better.

Responsibilty to travel to do so....true to a certain extent!!

Responsibility to be a big enough contender to get them and the TV company to travel for bigger money .......

Financial reward tends to determine the venue and no one has offered enough of a sizeable one.....to outdo the home market!

I can actually see both sides of the argument here. Yes, the HW division is going to enter a pretty grim phase once they've gone, but will anyone really miss them. I just can't see hordes of people getting all misty eyed and wailing, "Oh, if only Wlad was here!"

Yes, they've conducted themselves with a much needed dignity in the sport but they've dominated a poor era (and they not the only ones to suffer from that) butI couldn't see me getting excited about either of them coming out of retirement.

To me, they're like Calzaghe, who could probably hold his own quite easily with the current crop of SM/LH but no-one would really care if he never fought again.

Funny thing is at welter Manny and Floyd are far and away better than everyone else, and thus far have shown as much inclination to fight each other as the brothers. Can't see many arguing the sport would be better if they would exit stage left.

I think they are quality not their fault that there is nobody as good for them around to fight. Haye was upposed to knock Klitschko out he didnt even come close and lots of people were saying Klitchko would be too scared to fight him. I dont think Klitschko was scared at all he didnt look afraid of him in the face off.

I think Fury and Price are quality though and when Klitschkos retire then they can be champs think people are writing them off saing they will not be good in the future.

Plenty seem to be arguing on here..

DAVE667 wrote:I can actually see both sides of the argument here. Yes, the HW division is going to enter a pretty grim phase once they've gone, but will anyone really miss them. I just can't see hordes of people getting all misty eyed and wailing, "Oh, if only Wlad was here!"

To be fair Dave at the time plenty said the same of Lewis, but god knows everyone would welcome him on the scene now with open arms. Sometimes you don't know what you've got till it's gone as Joni Mitchell once put it

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Plenty seem to be arguing on here..

Sign of a good thread

I like the Parking lot even if Joni doesn't!!!

rowley wrote:Funny thing is at welter Manny and Floyd are far and away better than everyone else, and thus far have shown as much inclination to fight each other as the brothers. Can't see many arguing the sport would be better if they would exit stage left.

Pacquiao and Mayweather are great fighters who offer something to a wider audience, I for example love watching Mayweather fight as it's poetry in motion while at the same time I can understand why there are those who enjoy watching Pacquiao blitz his way through opposition. You don't get either of those things with the K bros.

rowley wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:I can actually see both sides of the argument here. Yes, the HW division is going to enter a pretty grim phase once they've gone, but will anyone really miss them. I just can't see hordes of people getting all misty eyed and wailing, "Oh, if only Wlad was here!"

To be fair Dave at the time plenty said the same of Lewis, but god knows everyone would welcome him on the scene now with open arms. Sometimes you don't know what you've got till it's gone as Joni Mitchell once put it

Holyfield and Tyson had a big part to play in his reputation though Jeff, they were exciting fighters to watch while Lewis was as he said a puglist specialist.

Wlad vs Haye or Vitali vs Arreola made little difference to me; I was as sure as I could possibly be that the results would be similar in each case. The fact that Haye shouted the odds in such comical fashion before the fight didn't make me want to see his fight more. Both were sufficiently predictable, in my view, for me not to trouble myself with watching them live, but the following day instead.

As for your first two match-ups, I'd always choose to watch the virtuosity of FMJ over any fight involving Ward or Gatti, I'm afraid. The level of skill is what interests me. For a great tear-up, I'd just as soon watch Caveman Lee-John LoCicero, which is massively entertaining, but equally utterly lacking in much of what you might call ability.

For a synthesis of both, I can look at Foreman-Lyle, Chacon-Limon or Bassa-McAuley. At a rarefied level, I can have Pryor-Arguello or Leonard-Hearns. There has to be some element of ability at work for me to enjoy it fully. I'd sooner watch any of the five fights I've just mentioned than Gatti-Ward, which, as I say, you can see on any Saturday night outside a number of boozers around the country.

As for the poor K brothers, you make them sound like Johnny Nelson. They're not; they're well schooled boxers who make the most of their physical attributes and appear to be far too good for their contemporaries. What we want to see is a contender with the ability to force them to adapt; that's why we watch. There isn't one at the moment, but that's not a reason to berate the brothers.

rowley wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:I can actually see both sides of the argument here. Yes, the HW division is going to enter a pretty grim phase once they've gone, but will anyone really miss them. I just can't see hordes of people getting all misty eyed and wailing, "Oh, if only Wlad was here!"

To be fair Dave at the time plenty said the same of Lewis, but god knows everyone would welcome him on the scene now with open arms. Sometimes you don't know what you've got till it's gone as Joni Mitchell once put it

In all honesty, I don't wish to contemplate a scenario whereby I'm praying for the return of Wlad....as it would undoubtedly mean the HW crown is being shared between Audley Harrison and Johnny Nelson and that's just to much to bear.

Maybe people will not wish Klitschko was there but think about who the next champs will be after and the chances are people will be saying there is no way that guy would beat klitschko if they were still here they would destroy him. Like when Lewis retired people say now if Lewis was still around he would be champ and nobody would have a chance against him. People used to say Lewis was boring too I never thought so.

Ghosty was just making the point it was said about Lewis, whilst he did have some exciting moments he could be a very cautious fighter when the mood took, and outside of the UK am fairly certain few if any thought they would mourn his exit. Could well find ourself in the same situation, am not arguing anyone is going to miss watching him in action but not impossible we will miss the clarity they bring to the top of the division

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I like the Parking lot even if Joni doesn't!!!

It would actually ease congestion in paradise, making it even easier to park, something Joni singularly fails to point out with her very blinkered view of the world.

captain carrantuohil wrote:. I'd sooner watch any of the five fights I've just mentioned than Gatti-Ward, which, as I say, you can see on any Saturday night outside a number of boozers around the country.

Dear god Captain, you drink in some rough boozers

Think Lewis and Vitali/Vlad were more evenly matched than some would think.......Mercer gave Lewis problems and some would say lost a contentious verdict...Vitali was just as good as Ray at least and Lewis struggles with Vlad's jab!!!

Pick lewis to win though..

When the Klits go it's a big drop in class..

I don't see that happening as Vitali for example is intrinsically linked to losing to Lewis so he will always be the one who gets mentioned not the K bros.

rowley wrote:Ghosty was just making the point it was said about Lewis, whilst he did have some exciting moments he could be a very cautious fighter when the mood took, and outside of the UK am fairly certain few if any thought they would mourn his exit. Could well find ourself in the same situation, am not arguing anyone is going to miss watching him in action but not impossible we will miss the clarity they bring to the top of the division

Haven't the WBA already taken the title off Wlad, making him their "super" champion with Povetkin now claiming a portion of the crown? Doesn't appear to be much clarity there and, as for your man in the street, I'd wager some are still labouring under the impression that Wlad and Vitali are the same person