England vs India 4th ODI Debate

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So the 4th ODI is about to be underway.
1 change for England, Steven Finn comes in for Jade Dernbach. India going in with the same xi that lost a close match last time around.
Finn for Dernbach, I think is a good move, this being Finn's home ground, he should know the conditions pretty well. And he's a real wicket taker, although he may go for a few. Dernbach has been bowling too many slower ones these days, and the Indians seem to have decoded him to some extend.

India going in with PK, Munaf and RP Singh. Can't understand the logic of it. When will Varun Aaron get a game?
England winning the toss and bowling, on a track that should offer some early help to the pacers.
Your thoughts??

also not sure why stokes is playing in this seris..i know he is a very good player and im a fan of his, but why pick an allrounder if he cant bowl, james taylor would have been a better option in this series.

He isn't in as a all-rounder, he's in there as a hitter near the end of an innings. Stokes is more of an attacking player than Taylor.

i have been staggered by some of cook's decisions so far in this game.

first innings average is 232 here apparently.

is the second lower or higher here in ODI's?

India looking like they want to start hitting out.

with PP to come and how they played in the last one, maybe they can hit 280?

Indian crowd not as noisy today for some reason.

these two are in, boundaries are flowing.

If they want 280 they'll have to get a move on , trebs

That would be 10 per over from here.

(4 maidens in this innings - unusual for a fifty over game , not on a minefield.)

Still I suppose if Bopara were to bowl again ...

chris woakes would have been useful on this pitch.

Won't get 280 Trebs.

oh dear, after some tight overs it's a smash fest.

turns out there are some Indians in the ground.

if the hit 280 and win this you're going to have your ears blown off by them.

poor bowling spell this now, we let the pressure off i feel. Cook is a little conservative.

Broad back into the attack with England needing a wicket

Must say the maidens have been great, really needed as you know Raina will go big once he gets in as will the MSD.

cricketfan90 wrote:chris woakes would have been useful on this pitch.

Who would you have had him in place of?Finn doesnt have great figures but having watched him bowl,he has been our best bowler so far.He softened the openers which paved the way for Broad to take wickets.And he has once again bowled well without getting just rewards.

Finn has been good, it's fair to say.

On a fairly flat pitch there's not a lot you can do to stop India going big on you once they settle.

Best team in the world after all, and you don't get there by accident.

The lad has done well against a good team.

dosent matter what we need to chase, india have no match winning bowlers.

Finn has been much better than his figures. And he seems to have gained a bit of pace too - consistently over 90 if the speed gun is to be trusted , with a top of 95.

Be handy if he can reproduce that in Tests in future ...

Ashwin and Kumar?

Finn's been bowling 90MPH + in one-dayers for a while now surprised the selectors haven't picked up on it.

ten an over from here with these two in or can we peg them back?

the last few overs have seen a fightback.

280 would be very dificult from here on.
India playing well in the batting powerplay is a serious exception rather than a rule. the rule is a monumental falling apart!!!!.
And more than often they get the time of it absolutely wrong as well.
They need to take in the next over or so, and if Dhoni and Raina stay together at the end of it all, then they will have a good score.

they got ten in that last over without pp msp, who needs it?

i take that back, more skill than i first realised.

Nass's pro-India bias is quite funny. Cook makes a brilliant diving stop at mid-off and he says nothing, but next ball Raina hits for four and he's suddenly gushing with praise again...

anyone know second innings average here?
do many people get 240 plus ?

looks a good pitch really but India might get some turn (not that it has yet, normally starts to turn much later here).

good over from Jimmy, five singles from it

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Nass's pro-India bias is quite funny. Cook makes a brilliant diving stop at mid-off and he says nothing, but next ball Raina hits for four and he's suddenly gushing with praise again...

he's been like it all summer, it's amazing to think he led England once.

I think Athers gets a bit fed up with it.

Dhoni these days struggles a bit getting those big shots away. He changed his batting style after becoming captain, and has become a mighty consistent player, but at times doesn't pace his knock as well as he used to do in the pre-captaincy days.

pp fireworks time anyway.

and Anderson gets hit out of the park.

Raina seems to have found form he did not have in the tests but it seems he's juist not suited to the slow build at all. real fire and forget stuff.

250 looks easy with the pp for this monster.

Dhoni kneeling down before running, strange

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Nass's pro-India bias is quite funny. Cook makes a brilliant diving stop at mid-off and he says nothing, but next ball Raina hits for four and he's suddenly gushing with praise again...

he's been like it all summer, it's amazing to think he led England once.

Think Naser deserves some respect. Think he's a forthright commentator, who could tell Ravi Shastri that he's payed by Sky and not the BCCI to make a major point.
And England supporters would do well to remember the year 1999.

Well said msp

poor over from Jimmy, we really do need to work on our death bowling. Poor from Dhoni that, looked like he swerved into Jimmy?

Time for some big hitting now I think...And Dhoni and Raina agree

18 off that one of Jimmy's ! If they keep this up for a couple more overs 250 plus is still on.

But I'm not sure that will be enough anyway. Pitch looks full of runs to me.

doesn't matter who we bowl, we just have to be honets that India play the PP brilliantly.

applause to them. I think they're taking the score a little too high. people reckoned 220 as par?

though i'm not seeing the demons in this pitch at all?

nooo hard chance but a drop.

Indian commentator all but ignores the good bowling though. shocking.

18 off a Jimmy was shocking.

do we reckon that's the game gone or can england chase it down?

Indian boys on sky seem to think par will be beyond england.

Bresnan is a good death bowler. Anderson isn't. Surprised we're bowling Anderson in a PP when Broad still has overs left

in the end it's been another annoying innings where Cook just didn't keep the pressure on the other team. Par is too high says Sky.

It would not be the first time this series we chased above par and won on a dead wicket but we are missing both Moggs and KP now (who i think should have come back for his team) so it looks much harder.

we'll only know when we bat too and i really think we're letting India get off the hook but this doesn't look a massive score unless the Indian spinners find something.

trebellbobaggins wrote:first innings average is 232 here apparently.

is the second lower or higher here in ODI's?

The average is almost definitely lower. If a team is set 232 they'll get to 232 (+ a couple of runs) and go no further, but if they fall short then they could be any number of runs behind. Second innings average isn't a good statistic.

Good point Robbo.

These two had us on toast in the pp again.. suddenly the 280 idea wasn't too far wrong was it.

were missing Moggs and KP in the last two games too trebs. Really annoyed by some of the commies, they seem to want Cook to have about six slips at the start, and the moment we get a wicket he should have another three straight in... India are playing the PP well here it must be said.

England again losing it at the death, they don't seem to have changed anything at all...

England bowling shocking at the death.

MFC, chat box

it's another painful painful PP from englands bowlers.. but India are bloody good at it.

If India lose this they should be very concerned, they have everything in their favour now, we have top chase, we messed up the PP again and we're missing our best batsmen for ODI's.

i can't turn on the commentary, that Indian is a pillock, licks up eveyrthing they do and talks us down. you'd not know we had won everything.

Has England been a touch petulant today?

so England make a real mess of the PP again, I don't think Cook's tactics were right there, I don't like the "everyone up on the off-side" tactic at all, just invites trouble IMO. Much better to just go long-off, long-on, mid-wicket and get it up there

India have indeed used the PP very well. Some awesome hitting...you can do this when you have six wickets in hand and two good strikers set. Sometimes not much the bowlers can do about it, really.

3 more "ordinary" overs now and Swann is back ...

have they ?

dunno

a touch rubbish mostly.

It's why i feared 250 - 280. people said they'd never manage 10 an over but ou know India will in the pp.. different class in that aspect of the game if MSD and Raina get in.

alfie wrote:India have indeed used the PP very well. Some awesome hitting...you can do this when you have six wickets in hand and two good strikers set. Sometimes not much the bowlers can do about it, really.

3 more "ordinary" overs now and Swann is back ...

that' very true.

the failing was maybe a little too little pressure but the wicket is a road at the mo.

problem is once again we've given away the initiative and have to chase a huge total again.. grrr.

58 in the powerplay, and that too without a wicket. India have done well in the powerplay in the last 2 games.
Swann at the death, may not be the smartest moves from captain Cook.

Poor tactics from Cook, Swann shouldn't be bowling at the death.

even Swann getting tonked, was way too full in that over I'm afraid. Remarkable how England can just lose their heads like this, India going to end up with at least 30 runs more than they should have got...