Who should Wales pick to face the Samoans and what are our chances?

First topic message reminder :

personally i would go for the same starting 15 again but i'd bring Stephen Jones and Gethin Jenkins onto the bench and possibly bring them on for the last 15 - 20mins of the game before giving them both a start against Namibia the week after for some much needed game time, i would also do the same with most of the players on the bench such as Knoyle and Bradley Davies.

I think the Samoans pose a big threat to our chances in this World Cup they've played some good Rugby over the past 12 months and have really improved as a team, i just hope Wales are'nt putting to much pressure on themselves by treating each game as a knock-out game, because if the pressure gets to the players its likely more mistakes could be made and we could be in danger of pressing the self-destruct button as we did in 07, aslong as the players go out there and stick to their game-plan, starve the Samoans of possession as much as possible im confident that this group of players are good enough to win by two clear scores or more, we just need to get settled early

I'd go along with giving Williams a rest. He seems to be going into one of his lulls. He needs a hair cut (seriously, look into his hair before and after he regains form, he's anti-Samson).

I wouldn't take much from the Samoan game yesterday. They were so far ahead and knew they were playing again in 4 days. No idea how it will really go other than on paper Wales are better.

I'm not sure why Vainikolo is being brought up. I don't think Williams tackled him once as they were on opposite wings. Mark Jones was tackling him and he couldn't put him down, allowing him to get the offload off easily (one leading to Flood's try). Williams has played against Tuilagi before and I don't remember anything major (again on opposite wings). He usually jumps on the big wingers and latches on like a limpet. Doesn't knock anyone back and doesn't always bring them down. But it does slow them down, generally enough for someone else to smash them into touch.

This is the Welsh team that played Samoa on 13 November 2009.

15. hook
14. Halfpenny
13. Shanklin
12. Roberts
11. James
10. Biggar
9. Peel
8. RP Jones
7. Warburton
6. Powel
5. AW Jones
4. Charteris
3. James
2. Bennet
1. Jenkins

Bench

Rees, Mitchell, Davies, Thomas, JJV Davies.

No Shane, not sure whether it was a deliberate move by Gatland, or injury though.

Ffs, just wait for the game will you! Youcant change anything by blathering on about it on here. Why argue about who may be able to tackle who? The defence is now is as much of a team aspect for the backline as a whole as the scrum and line out are for the forwards. Next you'll be telling me the Welsh scrum was good because 1 prop played well, or the lineout was good because 1 second row jumped well. This is modern rugby boys. We say they have the instinct coached out of them, and it is frustrating when they are so conditioned to a game plan they miss chances, but that conditioning in a set plan will be the determining factor in this game. In other words will the extra resources and fuss give the Welsh an edge? Who flip knows, just wait and see!

Glas a du wrote:Ffs, just wait for the game will you! Youcant change anything by blathering on about it on here. Why argue about who may be able to tackle who? Who flip knows, just wait and see!

yeah - let's stop all debate, predictions and opinion on this 'forum' is clearly not meant for such things and as we may well be wrong. Just wait and see what happens please....

I won't say a word.


















sorry , but I can't help myself, "help, I need somebody, help"

"anybody, help"

Question is..................




A. Are yous getting up at 04whattimeisit! to watch the match?

B. Getting in from Sat night oot and cracking on through till dawn?

C. Sky + or old fangled video recorder??

I got up at 3 to watch Samoa v Namibia so probably. I think I might even be in Wales this weekend.

Now that is a topic worth talking about. Fan, score predictions I can handle, but predicting the results of individual tackles? Some of you need to get a life.

Glas a du wrote:Now that is a topic worth talking about. Fan, score predictions I can handle, but predicting the results of individual tackles? Some of you need to get a life.

I predict that the Samoans will kick off left to right in the first half. Controversial i know but there it is.

You Bar Steward Gats. I do think that Charteris will on average jump 3 inches higher if AWJ lifts him as in the SA game.

Breadvan wrote:Question is..................




A. Are yous getting up at 04whattimeisit! to watch the match?

B. Getting in from Sat night oot and cracking on through till dawn?

C. Sky + or old fangled video recorder??

Bread,

Its A for but in my younger days it would have been B

Glas a du wrote:You Bar Steward Gats. I do think that Charteris will on average jump 3 inches higher if AWJ lifts him as in the SA game.

I am sure you meant to say

"Charteris on average jumped 3 inches higher when AWJ lifted him in the SA game"

Not wanting to be pedantic, but past tense, as in happened already.

I hate watching a recorded game, when I watch it live, I somehow feel my emotions can still uinfluence the game, whereas if it is taped, it has happened already and no "willing an opponent penalty kick miss" will help.

Bel I was making a pointless prediction

I know.

I am just trying to make conversation, this board is quiter than a graveyard this morning.

biltongbek wrote:I hate watching a recorded game, when I watch it live, I somehow feel my emotions can still uinfluence the game, whereas if it is taped, it has happened already and no "willing an opponent penalty kick miss" will help.

Don't talk rubbish...watched the tape of Wales Sa again and i was sure we would beat you. Just a s gutted when we didn't.

anyway.................... If i was gatland I'd pick the same 15 that started against SA but look to mover Hook up to fly half at some point if Wales need to chase the game. I think this is the match that I'm looking forward to the most. Shame I'll be working!

biltongbek wrote:I hate watching a recorded game, when I watch it live, I somehow feel my emotions can still uinfluence the game, whereas if it is taped, it has happened already and no "willing an opponent penalty kick miss" will help.

Excellant... on me.

Bilton - Why do you have to mention the word GRAVEYARD - stop it! we're getting nervous

RubyGuby wrote:Bilton - Why do you have to mention the word GRAVEYARD - stop it! we're getting nervous

My apologies. It is as quiet as a mouse.

Man vs mouse, ...............get it, ahh, forget it.

How about its as quiet as a SA fan in the 70th minute against Wales

RubyGuby wrote:How about its as quiet as a SA fan in the 70th minute against Wales

If you can call screaming and shouting quiet. well then i was very , very quiet.

Breadvan wrote:Question is..................
A. Are yous getting up at 04whattimeisit! to watch the match?

Nope I'm not going to put myself through it, I will get up in the morning and look at the BBC website and get the score, then I can watch the game on ITV Iplayer knowing what will happen and be calm about it either way!

Vainikolo was the Tongan winger, Hammer, nothing to do with the 'English' winger playing for Gloucester.

I shall be going out for a curry night out with the boys, and will come in and shout at the TV even louder than usual when I get back.

I know. But I'm so used to seeing a Vainkolo in White it's strange to see on in the red of Tonga.

EDIT: I've got up early for each game day (although missed the first Scotland game and half of the Australia v Italy game) so I'll be up again

15 Lee Bryne - We need someone who can take a beating.
14 George North
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Jamie Roberts - inside center, crash ball
11 Shane Williams
10 James Hook - Has to be fly Half, we can't have him running into gaps.
9 Mike Phillips
8 Toby Faletau
7 Sam Warburton
6 Dan Lydiate
5 Alun-Wyn Jones
4 Bradley Davies - would rather his aggression over Charteris line out skills.
3 Adam Jones
2 Huw Bennett
1 Paul James

16 Gethin Jenkins
17 Ken Owens
18 Craig Mitchell
19 Luke Charteris
20 Andy Powell
21 Tavis Knoyle
22 Stephen Jones

Alyn, that would be my team probably, but with Charteris to start. If we can dominate the line-out, we can kick for position in their 25 with confidence. I would be ready to use the bench more proactively and would like to see Priestland there as he is in form and can cover more positions that SJ.

I'd be very worried about Byrne at FB kicking poorly and kicking straight down the Samoans throats and giving them a chance to run. I think Priestland is a better option there - I'm shocked you've dropped Priestland from the squad totally after his great performance at the weekend. I'd pick Chateris after his performance against SA - and def give Shane a rest and pick someone more physical - Brew or Halfpenny.

I still look at the team and cringe when I see Powell and Bennett in there - as I still can't get over the difference between past 3 years Bennett and the Bennett of Now, and can't believe Powell is our best option (in the squad) for cover.

That's pretty close to what I'd like to see, although I don't think you can start Byrne, and would have the same 10/15 axis as against SA, see if it's something that could maybe go on throughout the WC, because, despite what people said, it did work pretty well against SA apart from James Hook's defence.

Shane shouldn't start. Would have Brew or 1/2P, pence for the kicking, and Brew for the physicality (but with North, Roberts and JD2, may not need it).

Agree with the bench as well. Tavis needs at least twenty minutes. He was absolutely chomping at the bit against Arg, having been on the bench for both England games. Let him loose, exactly the kind of game I could see him excel in, and he's a better passer than Phillips. Lloyd Williams needs game time as well though, maybe 40 each against Namibia for the two youngs 9s.

If we HAVE to take Shane lets keep him on the bench eh ? Brew and North to start

agree Miaow - the only reason I'd move Priestland from 10 is because of Hooks Defence, otherwise he played well at 10 - but I do like that 10/15 axis and the flexibility to move them around during the game. I'd still have S Jones on the bench to come on if we need to steady the game - and as you say Knoyle and Jenkins def need game time off the bench.

munkian wrote:If we HAVE to take Shane lets keep him on the bench eh ? Brew and North to start

Definitely keep Shane on the bench. It would be madness to drop him from the 22 purely for the fact that he can win games, and we can assess whether or not it's the kind of game he can influence. Tired legs and all that.

Difficult one with Steve. Think he would actually work really well in getting a quicker tempo from this pick and drive approach, as he bosses both the pack and backs far better than Priestland, obviously, and Hook. The downside is, in tight games, Priestland and Hook will make those two or three breaks/moments of magic, whereas Steve will not. So is Steve's role a counter-Shane, to come off the bench to steady the ship (as opposed to coming off the bench to create some magic)?

Obviously, if both Hook and RP start, SJ will be on the bench. Don't think SJ should start, but would like him to see game time, as with Jenkins, as you said.

I wouldnt pick Hook at Full Back because he is prone to losing the ball in heavy tackles and in 2009 he constantly lost the ball in the Samoa game when playing Full back. Id want him at fly half out the way to be honest.
Let Bryne take the beating!

Wales will lose and therefore struggle to get out of the group.

There.

I said it.

Wales are an ordinary side at best and the only Welsh player I'd like playing for England is Warburton.

AlynDavies wrote: Id want him at fly half out the way to be honest.

Eh!?!

Bore off cabbage. You're as stale and stinky as your name suggests.

miaow wrote:

AlynDavies wrote: Id want him at fly half out the way to be honest.

Eh!?!

Bore off cabbage. You're as stale and stinky as your name suggests.

just giving my opinion old boy.

'Wales will lose'

That's not an opinion, that's a WUM. If you'd said 'I think Wales will lose', it would be better, but you didn't. But I suppose 'I think...' coming from your fingers would be a lie.

Wales are average? Did you not see the Eng v Arg game? Arg were a competent kicker away from hammering you. They would've been 21-9 up at one point, don't forget that.

Also, 19-9.

Ignoring the sprout I agree that it would be better to have Hook away from the FB position - whether Gats will or not I don't know. On the plus if he does play FB he shouldn't face as many high balls - just some maurading samoans charging at him

Thing is, Hook did so well against SA at 15 because of his kicking. We'll really have to tone down the kicking against Samoa, so I can see the logic in moving him. Then again, with Byrne, you're going to get just as much kicking, and lots of it out on hte full.

Priestland would probably be the best bet at full back, because he likes to run it back, and not down blind corridors like Hook. But I'd like to see him at 10, he deserves to keep his place. Dilemma.

miaow - ignore sprouty he'll bring the level of the thread down.

I'm quietly confident we'll beat them (though I know what Wales are like when they let the fans get confident)

miaow wrote:'Wales will lose'

That's not an opinion, that's a WUM. If you'd said 'I think Wales will lose', it would be better, but you didn't. But I suppose 'I think...' coming from your fingers would be a lie.

Wales are average? Did you not see the Eng v Arg game? Arg were a competent kicker away from hammering you. They would've been 21-9 up at one point, don't forget that.

Also, 19-9.

miaow - i apologise. I think Wales will win by 50 points because their record against Pacific Island teams is amazing....
By the way, Jonny missed a lot of kicks too, but i'm guessing you'd blocked that out of your mind...Holly Wilaboobie for tat as they say.

(apologies didn't realise I'd written the 'ignore' bit twice - going a bit nuts I think)

After Sundays performance I don't see Gatland changing the team .

A stronger bench with Stephen Jones and Gethin would be a plus .

Samoa are dangerous indeed very dangerous though their current playing style seems more predictable than in the past .

Based on Wales' last performance I would back them to beat Samoa 8 times out of 10 , it's all about making sure that Sunday isn't one of the two !

Yes, but, as I said, if England had got 21-9 behind, I would've backed Arg to win. As it was, when England got their try from their first bit of sustained pressure, they went ahead. That wouldn't have been the case had Arg nailed their kicks.

Also, I'd take Wales' most recent performance as the gauge for how they might do.

miaow wrote:Eh!?!

Bore off cabbage. You're as stale and stinky as your name suggests.

Hook loses the ball in contact and often when he is hit hard, do you think the Samoans will throw rose petals at his feet?
Better yet why not watch the last time Wales played Samoa with Hook at Full Back and see the 6-10+ breaks he made in the game where he sliced the defence only to lose the ball in contact.
watch the entire game and see if you think Hook at Full Back against Samoa is a good idea.

It was more the fact you equated number 10 as being 'out of the way'. More so than full back. You get the 'eh?' now? Because 10 sees the ball most often, and 15 the least in the backline?

I think it is would be a decent option. However, as I said above, his kicking is what makes him a competent full back, and we won't (hopefully) be kicking as much against SA. With Byrne out of form, 1/2P untried, Priestland playing well at 10...it's probably the best option.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14842946.stm

we're screwed

I think "out of the way" meant out of the way of rampaging Samoans, rather than out of the way of the ball. Tackling and positioning are vital at 15. I think that's why we need a real 15 there, rather than a makeshift one.