Who should Wales pick to face the Samoans and what are our chances?

by Pot Noodle Miner Wed 14 Sep 2011, 2:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

personally i would go for the same starting 15 again but i'd bring Stephen Jones and Gethin Jenkins onto the bench and possibly bring them on for the last 15 - 20mins of the game before giving them both a start against Namibia the week after for some much needed game time, i would also do the same with most of the players on the bench such as Knoyle and Bradley Davies.

I think the Samoans pose a big threat to our chances in this World Cup they've played some good Rugby over the past 12 months and have really improved as a team, i just hope Wales are'nt putting to much pressure on themselves by treating each game as a knock-out game, because if the pressure gets to the players its likely more mistakes could be made and we could be in danger of pressing the self-destruct button as we did in 07, aslong as the players go out there and stick to their game-plan, starve the Samoans of possession as much as possible im confident that this group of players are good enough to win by two clear scores or more, we just need to get settled early

by wales606 Wed 14 Sep 2011, 7:37 pm

TheGreyGhost wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote: Wales are possible the fittest squad in the WC.

I love the stuff you Welsh come out with.

Can you imagine Tuilagi running at Halfpint and Williams?

Halfpenny is the best defensive wing in Wales, as he has proved for the Blues this season.

Shane has never been embarrased on the international stage, even against Lomu, Rockothco or Habana

by Gatts Wed 14 Sep 2011, 7:42 pm

tomathy wrote:
Gatts wrote:Tuilagi is like Lomu...tackle him around the legs. The art of being a winger (I know being a prop) is to avoid being tackled not seek contact like tuilagi. Yes he is damned effective but Shane owned Matt Banahan a few weeks back, in space SW would destroy MT one on one. problem v SA was he was closed down early.

Shane did not "own" Matt Banahan. He tackled him once. Banahan had a shocker and is nothing like as effective as Tuilagi or Lomu anyway.

He did have a shocker...all he had to do was fall over and score

MB 6'7 and 18 st 4lbs......
SW 5'7 and 12 st 8lbs.....

A foot and 6 stone...to even defend that is embarrassing

by TheGreyGhost Wed 14 Sep 2011, 7:42 pm

Rockothco? Pretty sure no one's been embarrassed by him, whoever he is.

What about when Sivivatu ran around Williams twice, then carried him the last five meters to the try line, before spinning the ball on William's prone head after scoring against the Lions?

I reckon that was pretty embarassing.

I also recall Williams turning his back on the approaching runner in the recent warm ups - even Quade Cooper hasn't stooped to that.

by Cymroglan Wed 14 Sep 2011, 7:45 pm

Studio pundits said today that Tuilagi does not go looking for work he does not move off his wing.

by Knowsit17 Wed 14 Sep 2011, 7:46 pm

"Halfpenny is the best defensive wing in Wales, as he has proved for the Blues this season."

I've come across this statement so often that I can only determine that some people don't watch Halfpenny all that much anymore. Earlier this season his tackling went down the toilet compared to what it used to be. Did you see him play in the 6N? He was getting bounced in most tackles he attempted and his finishing seems to have lagged also.

by Cymroglan Wed 14 Sep 2011, 7:50 pm

GG believe it or not the third leading Rugby union Test try scorer has been know to run around a few players.

by TheGreyGhost Wed 14 Sep 2011, 7:51 pm

We're talking defense, not attack...so if he's run around them he's missed the point.

by englandglory4ever Wed 14 Sep 2011, 7:51 pm

"Australia did not even go for kickable penalties thats how convinced they were that they would win."

England did the same to Wales and lost. Shows some teams do underestimate their opposition.

by Cymroglan Wed 14 Sep 2011, 7:53 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:"Australia did not even go for kickable penalties thats how convinced they were that they would win."

England did the same to Wales and lost. Shows some teams do underestimate their opposition.

Just like Wales did in Twickenham the week before,,, How do I know I was there.

by englandglory4ever Wed 14 Sep 2011, 7:56 pm

"He did have a shocker...all he had to do was fall over and score

MB 6'7 and 18 st 4lbs......
SW 5'7 and 12 st 8lbs.....

A foot and 6 stone...to even defend that is embarrassing"

I'll put my hand up and admit that was one of the most embarrassing pieces of English rugby I have ever seen.

He only had to stand up and carry ickle shane over the line with the ball. Instead he put his head down and allowed the little man to pull it even further down. Very embarrassing indeed.

by Cymroglan Wed 14 Sep 2011, 7:59 pm

TheGreyGhost wrote:We're talking defence, not attack...so if he's run around them he's missed the point.

Is the winger not there for attacking ? if a winger needs to be selected for his defensive qualities rather than his attacking prowess then I don't hold much faith in the rest of the back-line.

by niwatts Wed 14 Sep 2011, 8:41 pm

It's funny how this idea of the Williams tackle on Banahan has arisen. Williams certainly brought the clueless Banahan down, after being driven backwards 5m, but Banahan still ended up on the tryline and would have scored had it not been for Hook's excellent stripping of the ball.

by Taffineastbourne Wed 14 Sep 2011, 8:44 pm

A few trolls about!

by Shifty Wed 14 Sep 2011, 8:47 pm

I'm pretty happy with George north going against Tuilagi, though I think they will put him at center to go against Jamie Roberts.

by hawalsh Wed 14 Sep 2011, 9:17 pm

I'd be shocked if they moved the very skillful and physical Mapusua to accomodate Tuilagi at IC. Samoa's centre options of Mapusua, G.Pisi & ESF is probably the most impressive area of their squad. Tuilagi will definitely remain on the wing.

by Bullsbok Wed 14 Sep 2011, 9:21 pm

Someone mentioned tackling Tuilagi round the legs???

The problem is not tackling him ! its getting close enough to his legs without collecting a handoff or one of those shoulders.Shanes in for a rough night Very Happy

by Taffineastbourne Wed 14 Sep 2011, 9:23 pm

I hope your boys watch and learn,Bullbok.They are heading your way!

by Bullsbok Wed 14 Sep 2011, 9:25 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:I hope your boys watch and learn,Bullbok.They are heading your way!

They know all about the Samoans Smile

too bad bryan is off form and cnt entertain us with a Quad-Trick .

by bedfordwelsh Wed 14 Sep 2011, 9:26 pm

We have thes sort of threads everytime Shane comes up against a truly big winger.

He has played against far better and on par size wise than Tuilagi and never really been steam rollered.

We had it it Twickenham few years back when he was against Vainikolo and it came to nothing and more recently against Banahan and that def came to nothing.

For what its worth I would rest him and give Halfpenny and Brew some gametime but thats nothing to do with the size difference.

by Bullsbok Wed 14 Sep 2011, 9:28 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:We have thes sort of threads everytime Shane comes up against a truly big winger.

He has played against far better and on par size wise than Tuilagi and never really been steam rollered.

We had it it Twickenham few years back when he was against Vainikolo and it came to nothing and more recently against Banahan and that def came to nothing.

For what its worth I would rest him and give Halfpenny and Brew some gametime but thats nothing to do with the size difference.

Please do tell which bigger better wingers has he played against?? Please dont include Banahan in that list while you at it . And remind me if im wrong werent Shane and James Hook made to look like u16's by a rampaging Frans Steyn Last week? Now Steyn is a quick for someone his size but he's got nothing on the Samoan Powerhouse thats coming Shanes way angel

by Gatts Wed 14 Sep 2011, 9:31 pm

I think we all watched Shane try and dance through SA and thought perhaps he has had his day, but SA closed him down well. I had no real issues with him defensively but my concern is he will be targetted by Samoa, having said that i think they will give him more space to work in. It's a tough call for Gatland and i wouldn't be surprised to see 1/2 replace him.

by Taffineastbourne Wed 14 Sep 2011, 9:34 pm

Bullsbok wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:We have thes sort of threads everytime Shane comes up against a truly big winger.

He has played against far better and on par size wise than Tuilagi and never really been steam rollered.

We had it it Twickenham few years back when he was against Vainikolo and it came to nothing and more recently against Banahan and that def came to nothing.

For what its worth I would rest him and give Halfpenny and Brew some gametime but thats nothing to do with the size difference.

Please do tell which bigger better wingers has he played against?? Please dont include Banahan in that list while you at it . And remind me if im wrong werent Shane and James Hook made to look like u16's by a rampaging Frans Steyn Last week? Now Steyn is a quick for someone his size but he's got nothing on the Samoan Powerhouse thats coming Shanes way

Why are you obsessed with this size issue?Seems a bit weird.There are big folk and little folk.Some score lots of tries and others dont.Shane seems to be doing ok;what about the other fella?

by Guest Wed 14 Sep 2011, 9:36 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:
Why are you obsessed with this size issue?Seems a bit weird.There are big folk and little folk.

Banter.

by nottins_jones Wed 14 Sep 2011, 9:37 pm

What makes people believe Tuilagi will have a one on one with Shane (if he starts). Roberts or Davies might have tackled him by then or he may not even get the ball, we aren't the Namibians you know.

by Gatts Wed 14 Sep 2011, 9:39 pm

Bullsbok wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:We have thes sort of threads everytime Shane comes up against a truly big winger.

He has played against far better and on par size wise than Tuilagi and never really been steam rollered.

We had it it Twickenham few years back when he was against Vainikolo and it came to nothing and more recently against Banahan and that def came to nothing.

For what its worth I would rest him and give Halfpenny and Brew some gametime but thats nothing to do with the size difference.

Please do tell which bigger better wingers has he played against?? Please dont include Banahan in that list while you at it . And remind me if im wrong werent Shane and James Hook made to look like u16's by a rampaging Frans Steyn Last week? Now Steyn is a quick for someone his size but he's got nothing on the Samoan Powerhouse thats coming Shanes way

Bigger....most all of them, better..very few

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxh3utC4K_c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHIzvwyy1wo

take your pick bulls***

by Bullsbok Wed 14 Sep 2011, 9:43 pm

Gatts wrote:
Bullsbok wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:We have thes sort of threads everytime Shane comes up against a truly big winger.

He has played against far better and on par size wise than Tuilagi and never really been steam rollered.

We had it it Twickenham few years back when he was against Vainikolo and it came to nothing and more recently against Banahan and that def came to nothing.

For what its worth I would rest him and give Halfpenny and Brew some gametime but thats nothing to do with the size difference.

Please do tell which bigger better wingers has he played against?? Please dont include Banahan in that list while you at it . And remind me if im wrong werent Shane and James Hook made to look like u16's by a rampaging Frans Steyn Last week? Now Steyn is a quick for someone his size but he's got nothing on the Samoan Powerhouse thats coming Shanes way

Bigger....most all of them, better..very few

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxh3utC4K_c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHIzvwyy1wo

take your pick bulls***

hahahahahahah you';re going to compare Tuilagi to a bunch of Bok Forwards and Bryan habana???? laughing

YEs im sure stepping past Bakkies botha and Adi Jacobs is jsut the same as doing it to Alesana Tuilagi

.

As for Habana getting put on his ass im not suprised really anyone travelling at tht speed across a pitch is going to get steppd inside Yahoo

by hawalsh Wed 14 Sep 2011, 9:54 pm

nottins_jones wrote:What makes people believe Tuilagi will have a one on one with Shane (if he starts). Roberts or Davies might have tackled him by then or he may not even get the ball, we aren't the Namibians you know.

Not a lot, they'll be on opposite sides of the pitch for the most part. Shane will be facing Samoa's faster and more agile winger, 6ft 4in & 16st Sailosi Tagicakibau.

by Cymroglan Wed 14 Sep 2011, 9:56 pm

Third on the international list of leading Rugby union Test try scorers
Yes Bullsbok your argument is valid he is not very good is he.

by Gatts Wed 14 Sep 2011, 9:58 pm

you really have wood for Tuilagi don't you? why is that? Think your wings will fare any better?

by Bullsbok Wed 14 Sep 2011, 10:01 pm

Cymroglan wrote: Third on the international list of leading Rugby union Test try scorers
Yes Bullsbok your argument is valid he is not very good is he.

Yes you again i was wondering when you'd pop up . I never said anything bout Williams scoring i just said he's in for a rough night with Tuilagi .And well done Gatts very mature ,i'll save you some time i also have a 6ft poster on him in my room

by Guest Wed 14 Sep 2011, 10:03 pm

Shane's quality, but he shouldn't start against Samoa. Since he injured his shoulder against SA, he has been terrible in defence, seeming to jump out of the way of tackles and then drag the player down (got lucky against Banahan, because Banahan is God awful), and then with ball in hand, seems to be a turnover/big tackle away from disaster.

He should start against Namibia to try and get two tries and get him back in form, and should maybe start against Fiji, but I'd prefer him as an impact sub. Even against Aus, if we make it, Ioane and O'Connor will outpace him and outmuscle him, and sadly, I'd rather have 1/2P, North and Byrne as the back three for that game.

by Cymroglan Wed 14 Sep 2011, 10:04 pm

Like it's been said before we have heard this said countless times before.

by Gatts Wed 14 Sep 2011, 10:11 pm

Bullsbok wrote:
Cymroglan wrote: Third on the international list of leading Rugby union Test try scorers
Yes Bullsbok your argument is valid he is not very good is he.

Yes you again i was wondering when you'd pop up . I never said anything bout Williams scoring i just said he's in for a rough night with Tuilagi .And well done Gatts very mature ,i'll save you some time i also have a 6ft poster on him in my room

Well give him a wet bokke kiss from me you big bull kiss

Answer the question if you can, do you think your wings will fare well against Tuilagi?

by Bullsbok Wed 14 Sep 2011, 10:13 pm

Gatts wrote:
Bullsbok wrote:
Cymroglan wrote: Third on the international list of leading Rugby union Test try scorers
Yes Bullsbok your argument is valid he is not very good is he.

Yes you again i was wondering when you'd pop up . I never said anything bout Williams scoring i just said he's in for a rough night with Tuilagi .And well done Gatts very mature ,i'll save you some time i also have a 6ft poster on him in my room

Well give him a wet bokke kiss from me you big bull

Answer the question if you can, do you think your wings will fare well against Tuilagi?

I personally think Tuilagi is going to make mince meat of Bok wings Smile

but he have Jaque fourie thankfully

by Gatts Wed 14 Sep 2011, 10:15 pm

Really you do? Why do you rate him so highly?

by nottins_jones Wed 14 Sep 2011, 10:49 pm

I was quite suprised to see Bullsbok rate Tuilagi higher than Botha and the other said Springbok representatives. I know I don't. Our guys CAN and WILL tackle the Samoan players, I remember the brick wall from Gethin Jenkins which stopped his bigger brother in his tracks when we last played them; our defence looks much tougher now.

Also don't see how Tavis over Phillips could benefit us. Mikey boy was doing a bit of crabbing too often against South Africa, but it's not like they took advantage of that. Tav last started against Argentina, his passing in that game was shocking.

by Guest Wed 14 Sep 2011, 11:14 pm

Despite being named MOM...

Stop the Tavis hate. He's the only one willing to play with the kind of enthusiasm at 9 that would match the Samoan 9 who's signed for the Ospreys, whose name is far too difficult to spell without looking up.

by flyhalffactory Wed 14 Sep 2011, 11:42 pm

by flyhalffactory Wed 14 Sep 2011, 11:44 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
nottins_jones wrote:I was quite suprised to see Bullsbok rate Tuilagi higher than Botha and the other said Springbok representatives. I know I don't. Our guys CAN and WILL tackle the Samoan players, I remember the brick wall from Gethin Jenkins which stopped his bigger brother in his tracks when we last played them; our defence looks much tougher now.

Also don't see how Tavis over Phillips could benefit us. Mikey boy was doing a bit of crabbing too often against South Africa, but it's not like they took advantage of that. Tav last started against Argentina, his passing in that game was shocking.

WHAT!! he was MOM!!!!!
His distribution was much better than Phillips
Beggars belief!!

by nottins_jones Wed 14 Sep 2011, 11:46 pm

Kahn, he's good, more of a tactical 9 like the French. I know he was MOTM I need not be reminded. That was probably for things other than his passing which was shocking, something Phillips is constantly criticised for. Still don't see how he got the award over AWJ personally.

flyhalf btw, Hook was MOTM in the game against your partriotic Scotland but was still hash according to you. Wink

by flyhalffactory Wed 14 Sep 2011, 11:56 pm

nottins_jones wrote:Kahn, he's good, more of a tactical 9 like the French. I know he was MOTM I need not be reminded. That was probably for things other than his passing which was shocking, something Phillips is constantly criticised for. Still don't see how he got the award over AWJ personally.

flyhalf btw, Hook was MOTM in the game against your partriotic Scotland but was still hash according to you.

NJ,
Crikey none of our players could have been awarded it as we were dire and played our worst game for 15 years. steam

Hook............
Well lets see 30 mins of very good play against a sleeping Scottish side, then 35 mins of progressively worse play resulting in almost giving us 3 try scoring opportunities letting us get back to within 10 points and if we had taken those opportunities we could have got ahead, then Mr G hauled him off and Jones (as usual with the case of Hooks cameo roles) steadied the ship and you eventually won by 13 points.

Was anyone MOM? Tumbleweed

............... as Jonathan Davies said NO! but give it to Hooky for those outstanding first 20 mins Whistle

by nottins_jones Thu 15 Sep 2011, 12:08 am

Wish I didn't mention it now!

by maestegmafia Thu 15 Sep 2011, 12:32 am

HERSH wrote:If I was a Welshman I'd be worried, Samoa look good not that Wales look bad and their defence is good, but Samoa have no pressure on them plus they feel at home in NZ, I can't wait for this game.

this is possibly one of the most moronic and intentionally inciteful posts i have read tonight.

Wales and Samoa stand as much chance of qualifying from this group as SA and Fiji. no easy rides in this group like georgia, argentina, scotland or romania...?

by PJHolybloke Thu 15 Sep 2011, 12:39 am

I don't see either Wales or South Africa having a problem with Samoa TBH, anyone can chuck "what about Australia" into the mix, but there are three reasons that the Australia result will be irrelevant.

1. Neither Wales nor South Africa are Australia.

2. Australia got totally cold-cocked whilst prepping for far more important games, twas but a one-off which will be a looooooong time before being repeated.

3. Samoa aren't as good as either Wales or South Africa.

My work here is done.

by flyhalffactory Thu 15 Sep 2011, 12:49 am

Maesteg

Are you saying that
Wales (6th) v Fiji (15th)
is harder than
Scotland (7th) v Georgia (16th)

Rankings
15(15) FIJI 71.01
16(16) GEORGIA 70.30

Smacks of disrespect to Georgia, Agentina, and us, and excuses coming out early from the Welsh

by Guest Thu 15 Sep 2011, 3:09 am

I'd say that there's a significant difference between Fiji and Georgia. However, I'd also say there's quite a large difference between Wales and Scotland, as the SA performance showed. The rankings aren't helpful, due to the teams they play, and the fact Georgia rarely lose international games, whereas Fiji are regularly playing all four home nations at least, as well as the SANZAR nations.

Georgia are no pushovers, as Fiji will not be. But Samoa, again, are another step up from Fiji, and quite a significant one. Don't really understand the point of this thread; Samoa are a good team but, if Wales play intelligent, disciplined and effective rugby, they should win. And they go into the game as favourites (though this, as in the past, may negate their ability to play intelligent, disciplined and effective rugby...we're the NZ of NH rugby, in passion and choking ability).

by Taylorman Thu 15 Sep 2011, 4:43 am

Are wales favourites?what is the general betting?

by rugbyfan Thu 15 Sep 2011, 5:55 am

I think Wales are favourites but history shows that the samoans like playing the welsh. In fact they like playing anyone - England have always struggled to beat Samoa in world cups but have just about managed it - i think it's harsh on Samoa to have such a short rest time between games. After all this is probably their biggest match of the competition and they have 3 days off compared to wales' 6.

Wales should win but I think the samoans will be so fired up for this. It could be a fantastic match!

by **Biltong** Thu 15 Sep 2011, 6:53 am

PJHolybloke wrote:I don't see either Wales or South Africa having a problem with Samoa TBH, anyone can chuck "what about Australia" into the mix, but there are three reasons that the Australia result will be irrelevant.

1. Neither Wales nor South Africa are Australia.

2. Australia got totally cold-cocked whilst prepping for far more important games, twas but a one-off which will be a looooooong time before being repeated.

3. Samoa aren't as good as either Wales or South Africa.

My work here is done.

At last sanity prevails. Trust you to sort this bickering out. zen

by **Biltong** Thu 15 Sep 2011, 6:55 am

Taylorman wrote:Are wales favourites?what is the general betting?

Before the world cup started the bookies had Wales by 6, I see it has now moved to Wales by 9, I assume that is the betting sentiment that has influenced the odds.

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