Vitali K VS Haye

by tunes666 Thu 15 Sep 2011, 1:50 pm

Ok I have a feeling this fight will happen as Haye will retire after anyway so I cant see contracts getting in the way.. Haye will fight for pride, and its still a good little pay day for VK, better than most options out there.

My first thoughts are that Haye would get knocked out but I am having second thoughts. I think Haye still has very dangerous power and his speed is always very dangerous, and while he may not knock VK out he can still give him reason for concern.

WK is faster that VK and I think it was WKs reflexes that helped him deal with Haye, But im not sure VK will cope with his speed as much and I think Haye may well have a shout at getting a SD or something with this one... I would not bed my house on it but I do feel open to it.

by eddyfightfan Thu 15 Sep 2011, 1:55 pm

the problem is the physical size that they bring, the long reach and worring power. thats the same for both brothers so cant see him coping much better. however since VK drops his guard most of the time and is more agressive i think it will entertain a little more, haye still losing though.

by Guest Thu 15 Sep 2011, 2:00 pm

eddy, abbreviating to "VK" won't work with some posters, who only recognise the younger brother as "Vlad".

by Steffan Thu 15 Sep 2011, 2:13 pm

andygf wrote:eddy, abbreviating to "VK" won't work with some posters, who only recognise the younger brother as "Vlad".

I just call him "lil Klits"

by tommyhearnsprodigalson Thu 15 Sep 2011, 2:33 pm

I think this fight could be closer than the Wlad one, as Eddy said Vitali's guard epsecially his left hand is always held low so he can flick out his jab which might give Haye hope of catching him, providing he can get within fighting range plus Vitali prefers to trade which will play into Haye counter punching style

As much as i'm probably going to get mocked for this i'm actually excited and hope this fight comes off

by tunes666 Thu 15 Sep 2011, 2:44 pm

The only reason I cant really go for Haye is Vitali has such a good chin Haye will have to land allot to really get him in trouble, it took Lewis about 6 rounds of some Heavy blows to start slowing him down, Haye can only hope in VKs age he is less durable...

But I do see Haye having a shout if he gets his fight plan nailed and puts in his best performance to date.

by no-mas Thu 15 Sep 2011, 2:48 pm

alma wrote:Can't see Haye winning this. He simply doesn't throw enough punches. The fight will clearly be in Germany, as Haye has no bargaining power after losing against Wlad, so even if it were tight, which it won't be, the odd close round would go to Vitali.

I think it will hapen in England, vitali stated he would like to fight here and it makes money sense, there isn't as much money in the fight due to vlad beating Haye so to maximise profit do you fight in Germany in front of 60,000 or Wembely in front of 90,000+?

I see it going the same way as the last fight, if Haye couldn't connect on vlad then he has no chance on vitali and even if he got lucky, vitalis right hand will end it before Haye realises

by fearlessBamber Fri 16 Sep 2011, 11:53 am

Haye to run like thief and either lose wide UD or get stopped late.

by bhb001 Fri 16 Sep 2011, 12:18 pm

tunes666 wrote:Haye will fight for pride,

Best laugh I've had all day!! Money is the only motivation for Haye

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Fri 16 Sep 2011, 1:06 pm

no-mas wrote:
alma wrote:Can't see Haye winning this. He simply doesn't throw enough punches. The fight will clearly be in Germany, as Haye has no bargaining power after losing against Wlad, so even if it were tight, which it won't be, the odd close round would go to Vitali.

I think it will hapen in England, vitali stated he would like to fight here and it makes money sense, there isn't as much money in the fight due to vlad beating Haye so to maximise profit do you fight in Germany in front of 60,000 or Wembely in front of 90,000+?

I see it going the same way as the last fight, if Haye couldn't connect on vlad then he has no chance on vitali and even if he got lucky, vitalis right hand will end it before Haye realises

They wouldn't pull 90,000 at Wembley!

by Super D Boon Fri 16 Sep 2011, 1:17 pm

Vitali is a lot more mobile than given credit for and cuts the ring down and measures the distance so well. Adamek's supposed superior speed was not a factor at all. Haye will (hopefully) get mullered. Either that or he puts on an upset or fights harder than last time out and earns a draw. Wink

by JDandfries Fri 16 Sep 2011, 1:50 pm

No evidence that Haye carries his 'power' at Heavy, and Vitali has probably one of the best chins I have ever seen.

VK would walk through him, don't see Haye taking this fight unless he really is desperate for the $$

by Kingshu Fri 16 Sep 2011, 2:30 pm

if it goes ahead I'll be putting money on Haye to be knocked out,

may even go for rounds 4-6

by mikeymax71 Fri 16 Sep 2011, 2:57 pm

I picked Haye to beat Wlad and was embarrassed big time after the event. Yes Vitali is more open and more willing to fight but for me you need to set a pace that someone of Vitali's age would struggle with. However, Haye does not do any where near enough in each round to beat Vitali.

Unless the power Haye possess suddenly has the brain scrambling effect to end the fight at any moment (and I have to agree he has power but not one punch KO power at heavyweight) he will be walked down and probably stopped at the mid fight point in a similar fashion to when Riddick Bowe stopped Herbie Hide.

by Guest Fri 16 Sep 2011, 4:01 pm

Adamek decided to shrink himself down the size of a LH to avoid getting hit and Vitali almost fought in a crouch to get down to his level. Adamek was terrified from round one and failed to utilise his "advantage" even one iota.

Michael Grant is about the same size a Vitali and yet Adamek showed no fear in taking it to him. The enormity of what he was up against finally dawned on him as he walked to the ring last weekend and the fear almost crippled him. Just think Bruno/Tyson II.

Re Haye v Vitali, would love to see Haye throwing leather like there's no tomorrow and, whether or not he gets beaten, go out on his shield. Sadly, with no tune up fight to assess whether or not he's made any improvement to his game, we've only his last effort to go on and whilst he couldn't or perhaps daren't perform as badly, it's not hard to envisage a performance like the one against Wlad.

Haye claims he's spent time with Lennox Lewis who offered his tips and advice on how to beat Vitali, so why doesn't Lewis come on board as a trainer for this camp then Haye has absolutely NO EXCUSES WHATSOEVER if he fails to win.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 16 Sep 2011, 4:32 pm

If lewis was so confident and Vitali so easy to read he would've agreed to a return fight..

BS

by TopHat24/7 Fri 16 Sep 2011, 4:46 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If lewis was so confident and Vitali so easy to read he would've agreed to a return fight..

BS

Why? He came in uninterested and out of shape in the first fight and still turned a younger fitter hungrier Vitali's face to mush plus he was minted from previous fights so money wouldn't be a big motivator either and neither was legacy as, at the time, big Vit was not going to bolster his CV at all.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 16 Sep 2011, 4:53 pm

Thought Vitali was ahead on hbo's card....

mate let's leave this "uninterested garbage" out of it....

Don't buy it..

by TopHat24/7 Fri 16 Sep 2011, 4:58 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Thought Vitali was ahead on hbo's card....

mate let's leave this "uninterested garbage" out of it....

Don't buy it..

Good, because I ain't selling it.

And cards mean nothing, the result was TKO. It was hardly Taylor-Chavez...

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 16 Sep 2011, 4:59 pm

No but you make it out to be one sided fight...

Just putting you right.

by Waingro Fri 16 Sep 2011, 5:04 pm

Lewis would be a great advantage for Haye and would also be a great mind game against Klitschko. Usually Klitchko is not intimidatd but having the man that beat him in yor corner would make him think twice. Haye can also use the experieince from the last fight to see where he goes wrong.

Lets be honest what other heavyweight would people prefer to see Klitchko face?? Haye is exciting and can sell a fight and get interest back in the division so why not get behind him and hope we have a British heavyweight champ?

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 16 Sep 2011, 5:06 pm

Why would it be a great mind game against Klitscho??????

He's just seen his brother slap him around and he thinks Lewis legged it instead of offering him a return...

Think Vitali would fancy Haye If Eddie Futch was in Haye's corner..

Come on....Lewis didn't outclass Vitali..

by Waingro Fri 16 Sep 2011, 5:19 pm

Lewis smashed Klichkos face up he needed loads of stitches and it took months to heal if the fight went on longer Lewis would have knocked him out and the ref had no choice to stop it.

Lewis knows how to beat Klichko and beat him before Klitchko will remember this and could start having doubts if Lewis is training Haye and giving him advice because lets be honest who knows more about beating Klichko than Lewis??

by TopHat24/7 Fri 16 Sep 2011, 5:19 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No but you make it out to be one sided fight...

Just putting you right.

No I didn't, my only real statement was that he turned his face to mush. Which he did, it was a state. Not saying Vit didn't win the first 3, maybe 4, rounds but some people make it sound like Lewis was on the wrong side of a one-way hiding for 11 rounds 2 minutes and 58 seconds, only to win with a random out-of-nowhere hayemaker. To me it was clear the tide was turning, but speculating that Lewis would otherwise have simply won all the subsequent rounds to a wide UD (the fight emulating Judah-PBF) on that basis is irrelevant, he got the TKO. Fact.

by TopHat24/7 Fri 16 Sep 2011, 5:20 pm

Hate the fact I just ended a comment with FACT.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 16 Sep 2011, 5:22 pm

"Uninterested, out of shape and turned Vitali's face into mush"

Statement speaks for itself..anyone who read that and hadn't seen the fight would say he kicked Vitali's butt big style....

Fact is HBo and a few others thought Vitali was ahead and Lewis smelled the coffee and b******d off...

Let's face it he struggled with Mercer who was a poor man's Vitali..

by TopHat24/7 Fri 16 Sep 2011, 5:32 pm

No it doesn't, it suggests he inflicted significant facial damage (which he did) and was out of shape (which he was, compared to much of the rest of his career). The 'uninterested' bit was maybe hyperbole but that's it.

The 'fact' that HBO had him ahead on the cards (as did I) is nothing more than that, a nice, but largely irrelevant, fact. Trivia, if you will. The 'fact' that matters is that Lewis won by TKO.

Mercer was an ok boxer, but over 6 inches shorter than a fighter largely reliant on his physical attributes over any other quality - therefore I think equating them is not entirely fare.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 16 Sep 2011, 5:34 pm

Let's just agree that the first one was an even fight and that Vitali was much younger and fresher...

by TopHat24/7 Fri 16 Sep 2011, 5:42 pm

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Fri 16 Sep 2011, 5:44 pm

Lewis was quite right not to re match Vitali although I don't buy into the thought Lewis was lucky to win, he opened the cuts and regularly landed shots on the cuts worsening. Smart move imo.

Lewis had nothing to prove and if Vitali had won it would have done little to enhance his legacy because it would have been said that Lewis was past it.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 16 Sep 2011, 6:03 pm

Never said he was..just that it was a close fight and Vitali would for me have a lot going for him in a rematch..

Anyway have a good weekend...

i'll own your backside again next week..

by AlexHuckerby Fri 16 Sep 2011, 6:21 pm

To be fair Vitali had the official scorecards (The ones that matter) in his favour. He won the first 4 rounds, but Lewis had won the next 2 so it's a bit of an unknown quantity as to who would have had it continued.
I wouldn't have said he Lewis came into the ring out of shape and fat! Have you seen his body in that fight? I wish I was that out of shape and fat!

by monty junior Fri 16 Sep 2011, 8:18 pm

Klitschko could and should have finished him off in the second or third round, after that i think he shot himself out a bit and took some big shots.

by lovely_london Sat 17 Sep 2011, 5:19 am

I don't know what fight some of youw atched but Klitschko was definately beating Lewis. Klitschko landed more jabs and more power punches than Lewis and Klitschko was winning by 2 rounds.

Only reason why Klitschko lost was because he was cut. He was not knocked out or in too much pain to continue.

In my opinion if the fight continued Klitschko would have won a decision. Klitschko would not have been knocked out as we have seen how tough he is. Lewis gave him his best punches and Klitschko never even went down. So no chance of a knock out. And I think Lewis would have been to experienced to get knocked out. He was grabbing a lot everytime Klitschko landed a big shot so it would have been a messy fight that ultimately ended in Klitschko winning by points.

by Michaels, Sean Sat 17 Sep 2011, 8:17 am

lovely_london wrote:I don't know what fight some of youw atched but Klitschko was definately beating Lewis. Klitschko landed more jabs and more power punches than Lewis and Klitschko was winning by 2 rounds.

Only reason why Klitschko lost was because he was cut. He was not knocked out or in too much pain to continue.

In my opinion if the fight continued Klitschko would have won a decision. Klitschko would not have been knocked out as we have seen how tough he is. Lewis gave him his best punches and Klitschko never even went down. So no chance of a knock out. And I think Lewis would have been to experienced to get knocked out. He was grabbing a lot everytime Klitschko landed a big shot so it would have been a messy fight that ultimately ended in Klitschko winning by points.

Klitschko does have a fantastic chin. His face was the problem here. Check the section about cutsin the boxing rule book. His face was hanging off..... He was lucky the ref stopped it otherwise there could have been permanent damage. Great performance but he lost the fight.

by TopHat24/7 Sat 17 Sep 2011, 12:24 pm

lovely_london wrote:I don't know what fight some of youw atched but Klitschko was definately beating Lewis. Klitschko landed more jabs and more power punches than Lewis and Klitschko was winning by 2 rounds.

Only reason why Klitschko lost was because he was cut. He was not knocked out or in too much pain to continue.

In my opinion if the fight continued Klitschko would have won a decision. Klitschko would not have been knocked out as we have seen how tough he is. Lewis gave him his best punches and Klitschko never even went down. So no chance of a knock out. And I think Lewis would have been to experienced to get knocked out. He was grabbing a lot everytime Klitschko landed a big shot so it would have been a messy fight that ultimately ended in Klitschko winning by points.

6 rounds left to play for and Vit was only ahead by 2 having lost the momentum and you're that certain he'd have taken a decision? It was equally likely if not more so that Lewis, being the more experienced and gifted fighter, would simply build on the momentum to a 2-3 round UD. More importantly, as Micheals pointed out, check the rule book, if you tear your opponents face apart you will win. It's not like he headbutted his way to victory a la Bradley, he worked behind his renowned jab to cause significant facial damage. Points and lights-out kayo aren't the only ways you win a boxing match....

by Wazzas New Hair Sat 17 Sep 2011, 12:26 pm

What's to say that Vitali keeps taking the best Lewis has to offer, he might have survived one monster uppercut but that's not say he keeps taking them.

by lovely_london Sat 17 Sep 2011, 3:42 pm

you guys seriously know how to exagerate. he had a cut above his eyebrow. you are acting as if his face was on fire and dripping off.

fair enough the cut was deep but it was just a cut above the eyebrow. And Lewis received a lot of damage his nose was broken.

by TopHat24/7 Sat 17 Sep 2011, 4:21 pm

lovely_london wrote:you guys seriously know how to exagerate. he had a cut above his eyebrow. you are acting as if his face was on fire and dripping off.

fair enough the cut was deep but it was just a cut above the eyebrow. And Lewis received a lot of damage his nose was broken.

And equally you're making it sound like Vitali handed out a one sided schooling.

by lovely_london Sat 17 Sep 2011, 4:32 pm

When did i say that? Please quote exactly what I said which would confirm what you just said.

All I have said is the facts. Klitschko landed more jabs and power punches and that is a fact not opinion. And Klitachko was ahead on all 3 judges scorecards and once again that is a fact not opinion.

And if you talk about damage Lewis's nose was broken and he had a lot of swelling around his right eye. So both fighters had damage not just Klitschko which is what you made out.

by BALTIMORA Sat 17 Sep 2011, 4:53 pm

Ahead on all three scorecards halfway through a fight doesn't mean diddly dick.

by lovely_london Sat 17 Sep 2011, 5:08 pm

BALTIMORA wrote:Ahead on all three scorecards halfway through a fight doesn't mean diddly dick.

But he was ahead because he was throwing and landing more punches.

by BALTIMORA Sat 17 Sep 2011, 5:17 pm

lovely_london wrote:
BALTIMORA wrote:Ahead on all three scorecards halfway through a fight doesn't mean diddly dick.

But he was ahead because he was throwing and landing more punches.

With half the fight still to go.

by captain carrantuohil Sat 17 Sep 2011, 5:22 pm

Haye lacks Lewis's physical gifts, heavyweight experience, power and determination. Whatever one thinks of the Lewis-Klitschko fight, I see no reason why Lewis will be able to have the slightest bearing on a Haye-Vitali encounter. Unless he can somehow produce an increase in height of 4 inches, an increase in weight of 20 pounds, the inclination to lead once in a while and throw more than a dozen punches per round and the determination to win whatever the cost in Haye, his presence in Haye's camp will mean squat.

I still don't see what Haye has ever shown to make people think that he can stop or KO Vitali. His nationality has nothing to do with it - for me, Klitschko is a superior fighter and an even more demonstrably superior human being. For those reasons, I hope that he will win comfortably, and I've seen nothing to make me think that I shall be disappointed.

by lovely_london Sat 17 Sep 2011, 5:27 pm

captain carrantuohil wrote:Haye lacks Lewis's physical gifts, heavyweight experience, power and determination. Whatever one thinks of the Lewis-Klitschko fight, I see no reason why Lewis will be able to have the slightest bearing on a Haye-Vitali encounter. Unless he can somehow produce an increase in height of 4 inches, an increase in weight of 20 pounds, the inclination to lead once in a while and throw more than a dozen punches per round and the determination to win whatever the cost in Haye, his presence in Haye's camp will mean squat.

I still don't see what Haye has ever shown to make people think that he can stop or KO Vitali. His nationality has nothing to do with it - for me, Klitschko is a superior fighter and an even more demonstrably superior human being. For those reasons, I hope that he will win comfortably, and I've seen nothing to make me think that I shall be disappointed.

The fight stopped after 6 rounds and I was merely highlighting the fact that Klitschko was winning.

by lovely_london Sat 17 Sep 2011, 5:28 pm

sorry i quoted the wrong quote

by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Sat 17 Sep 2011, 5:31 pm

Age will catch up on him eventually though. He was sharp vs adamek but looked slow vs solis and has been puffing alot more after 6 rounds in his other fights. Haye will have speed advantage and he managed to catch wlad with a few overhand rights. Although i think he is too small, vitali is no longer unbeatable. Adamek looked smaller than haye, was alot slower and always had a poor defense. The only advantage adamek has over haye is punch resistance.

by lovely_london Sat 17 Sep 2011, 5:41 pm

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Age will catch up on him eventually though. He was sharp vs adamek but looked slow vs solis and has been puffing alot more after 6 rounds in his other fights. Haye will have speed advantage and he managed to catch wlad with a few overhand rights. Although i think he is too small, vitali is no longer unbeatable. Adamek looked smaller than haye, was alot slower and always had a poor defense. The only advantage adamek has over haye is punch resistance.

I agree that Klitschko is a lot slower now but that s understandable considering he is 40. However what has haye ever done at HW to suggest that he is the man to take down Klitschko? He landed so many power shots against valuev and barely rocked him. Took til the 12th round before Valuev even felt anything.

by Mr Bounce Sat 17 Sep 2011, 5:43 pm

lovely_london wrote:you guys seriously know how to exagerate. he had a cut above his eyebrow. you are acting as if his face was on fire and dripping off.

fair enough the cut was deep but it was just a cut above the eyebrow. And Lewis received a lot of damage his nose was broken.

Hmmmm

http://allhiphop.com/photos/blog_pictures/images/20566884/secondarythumb.aspx

by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Sat 17 Sep 2011, 5:58 pm

lovely_london wrote:
WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Age will catch up on him eventually though. He was sharp vs adamek but looked slow vs solis and has been puffing alot more after 6 rounds in his other fights. Haye will have speed advantage and he managed to catch wlad with a few overhand rights. Although i think he is too small, vitali is no longer unbeatable. Adamek looked smaller than haye, was alot slower and always had a poor defense. The only advantage adamek has over haye is punch resistance.

I agree that Klitschko is a lot slower now but that s understandable considering he is 40. However what has haye ever done at HW to suggest that he is the man to take down Klitschko? He landed so many power shots against valuev and barely rocked him. Took til the 12th round before Valuev even felt anything.

I don't think that haye can KO vitali, i do however think he can nick a close UD or SD. Haye doesn't have the power to KO vitali but has the speed and reflexes to get his shots off while taking little in return. Vitali would always be my favourite but i feel and always felt that vitali would be better made for haye i.e. in and out and pot shot to victory. I can't remember how many power shots actually landed on valuev but he did actually rock him which other fighters failed to do. Haye also took some of wlads best shots without too much trouble and wlad hits just as hard imo as vitali

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