Vitali K VS Haye

First topic message reminder :

Ok I have a feeling this fight will happen as Haye will retire after anyway so I cant see contracts getting in the way.. Haye will fight for pride, and its still a good little pay day for VK, better than most options out there.

My first thoughts are that Haye would get knocked out but I am having second thoughts. I think Haye still has very dangerous power and his speed is always very dangerous, and while he may not knock VK out he can still give him reason for concern.

WK is faster that VK and I think it was WKs reflexes that helped him deal with Haye, But im not sure VK will cope with his speed as much and I think Haye may well have a shout at getting a SD or something with this one... I would not bed my house on it but I do feel open to it.

lovely_london wrote:What makes you think VK couldn't last more than 3 rounds?

Here's a clue...

Spoiler:

Lovely London - another plank who hasn't watched the fight.

Aside from the fact that VK's face looked like Freddie Krugers, he was actually breathing from his a$$hole from round 4!

These people just jump on urban myths to make themselves sound as though they have a clue when in reality they don't know what they are talking about.

It's the same thing with the "Rocky V is rubbish" brigade.

I see that lovely london is still relentlessly banging his revisionist drum.

Title fights are decided over twelve rounds, or by stoppage, or by technical decisions. They are not decided by who happened to be ahead on the cards at a given point, and to insist otherwise is to be utterly ignorant. History abounds with examples of fights won from losing positions and some of them have contributed tales of heroism and glory to boxing's rich folklore.

Of course, Vitali Klitschko had every reason to be disappointed and, of course, he had given an excellent account of himself. He may have gone on to win and so might Lewis have done.

Bottom line is that Lewis did win and he was most certainly not ' outclassed.'

Union Cane wrote:These people just jump on urban myths to make themselves sound as though they have a clue when in reality they don't know what they are talking about.

It's the same thing with the "Rocky V is rubbish" brigade.

It is. Is Rocky VI any good? I started watching it but after about an hour with no fight I turned it off.

BALTIMORA wrote:

Union Cane wrote:These people just jump on urban myths to make themselves sound as though they have a clue when in reality they don't know what they are talking about.

It's the same thing with the "Rocky V is rubbish" brigade.

It is. Is Rocky VI any good? I started watching it but after about an hour with no fight I turned it off.

No its quite depressing actually

Fitzsimmons vs Corbett
Froch vs Taylor
Jackson vs Graham
Leonard vs Hearns 1

A few fights rescued from losing positions, there are several more examples and personally would argue the sport would be a far more dull place without them.

Sod that then there's only so far a formula will stretch.

BALTIMORA wrote:

Union Cane wrote:These people just jump on urban myths to make themselves sound as though they have a clue when in reality they don't know what they are talking about.

It's the same thing with the "Rocky V is rubbish" brigade.

It is. Is Rocky VI any good? I started watching it but after about an hour with no fight I turned it off.

Rocky VI was rubbish but I enjoyed Rocky V - had some classic lines: "You knocked him down, try knocking me down" "My ring's outside" and "touch me and I'll sue" with Rocky's response (can't remember it exactly).

lovely_london wrote:

JDandfries wrote:I don't think it was unsatisfactory at all, there were about 5 cuts, all of which gave an indication of teh accuracy of Lewis's punches - couldnt see VK lasting more than another 3 rounds anyway.

A good win by Lewis, who to be fair was out of condition and almost retired at that stage

Are you deluded? What makes you think VK couldn't last more than 3 rounds? It was Lewis who was lucky.

Lewis got outclassed in that fight.

Wonder if you see the irony in calling other posters deluded given your posting history on the subject matter. I'm guessing not. Doughnut.

If Lewis beat VK fair and square then so did Chris Byrd.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:If Lewis beat VK fair and square then so did Chris Byrd.

Different types of ending though. He had his face cut to ribbons by one, while he put his own shoulder out hitting the other.

chris byrd did win vitali fair and square. or are you implying he cheated? can i ask if you think a KO punch or a punch that forces a stoppage are any different?

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:If Lewis beat VK fair and square then so did Chris Byrd.

Totally different JT, silly to draw comparisons. Lewis opened a cut and worked on it to take the win, Byrd did nothing to actively cause Vit's injury. Stoppage is a more credible win than a retirement.

Do you think Chris Byrd sits at home and thinks "you know, I beat VK fair and square."

And yes to your second part.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:If Lewis beat VK fair and square then so did Chris Byrd.

Time for a rule change, then, since literally hundreds of title fights have been settled by way of cuts.

Lewis never inteded to open that cut on Klit, just the same as Byrd never intended to break VK's shoulder with his defensive work. Both luck.

On paper, VK quit against Byrd. Whilst against Lewis he was retired by the doctor due to cuts. Perhaps Byrd has the better win?

no but lewis does. theres no getting away from the fact that a fight can end at any time by any legal means, just because its not one sided up till that point doesnt mean that fighter doesnt deserve the win.

if a KO is landed a fighter can be back on his feet and back to normal in 15 seconds and lose the fight. if a fight is stopped on cuts then the boxer will have to go to hospital, have stitches (which vitali had about 40) and could well be weakened in that area forever- so which is more damaging?

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Lewis never inteded to open that cut on Klit

Course he did, that's why he was hitting him in the face. If he didn't want to injure him he wouldn't have been hitting him.

Silly man.

exactly union- punching someone in the face is a clear indication that they are trying to hurt them

No way did Lewis throw that punch thinking "I'm going to cut his face apart with the laces on my glove."

Why not say that it was the effectiveness of Byrd's defence that broke VK's shoulder?

I'd stop now mate if I were you, it's only going to get worse.

Also don't forget that Lewis had a nasty cut, just didn't happen to be in a particulaly bad place. Luck.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Lewis never inteded to open that cut on Klit,

Well if you mean he didn't consciously think I am going to throw this punch with the intention of opening a cut above his eye you may well be right but whenever a fighter throws a punc there are myriad things they hope will happen be it consciously or subconsciously. You hope it may set up a following punch/combination, may cause your opponents enough trouble they cannot respond with any shots of their own, mya throw them off balance to set up a KO and may cut them is one of these things. Would imagine no fighter goes into a fight, unless it's with Henry Cooper expecting to win on fights but what a good fighter should be able to do is take that chance when it comes along, Lewis did this, fair and legitimate stoppage and win.

Byrd never intended to break VK's shoulder with his defensive work. Both luck.

Both luck? Oh dear

Everyone

I guess we should now count every single "post punch" effect i.e. KO, knockdown, stunned, wobbled, CUT, as PURE LUCK!??!!?!?!?!?

Thanks jukebox, no really

coxy0001 wrote:Everyone

I guess we should now count every single "post punch" effect i.e. KO, knockdown, stunned, wobbled, CUT, as PURE LUCK!??!!?!?!?!?

Thanks jukebox, no really

Unless they say what they want to happen beforehand.

Like in pool where you have to name your pocket for the black.

Robinson v Turpin II, Marciano v Charles II and Hagler v Hearns are just three fights which could have been stopped by way of cuts. In each case, the injured fighter pulled out something special to save the day.

Vitali didn't.

The fact that he didn't is not any poor reflection on him, but rather a measure of the fact that the pair of them were pretty evenly matched on the night.

Scott

I agree. Maybe we should petition for a new rule whereby a boxer has to shout "knockdown" before throwing a punch? And if the other guy wobbles but isn't knocked down he gets a point deducted?

5 incorrect calls of what he was really trying to do = DQ?

the only lucky moment in that fight for vitali was when the doctor had the sense to stop the fight. could have been perminantly damaged

coxy0001 wrote:Everyone

I guess we should now count every single "post punch" effect i.e. KO, knockdown, stunned, wobbled, CUT, as PURE LUCK!??!!?!?!?!?

Thanks jukebox, no really

Only if we count all the effects of having a great defence as pure luck. Look at Floyd Mayweather the flukey devil.

Scottrf wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Everyone

I guess we should now count every single "post punch" effect i.e. KO, knockdown, stunned, wobbled, CUT, as PURE LUCK!??!!?!?!?!?

Thanks jukebox, no really

Unless they say what they want to happen beforehand.

Like in pool where you have to name your pocket for the black.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Everyone

I guess we should now count every single "post punch" effect i.e. KO, knockdown, stunned, wobbled, CUT, as PURE LUCK!??!!?!?!?!?

Thanks jukebox, no really

Only if we count all the effects of having a great defence as pure luck. Look at Floyd Mayweather the flukey devil.

Regrettable, then, that Vitali's defence wasn't up to the job of protecting his injured eye while Lewis was peppering it with punches.

coxy0001 wrote:Scott

I agree. Maybe we should petition for a new rule whereby a boxer has to shout "knockdown" before throwing a punch? And if the other guy wobbles but isn't knocked down he gets a point deducted?

5 incorrect calls of what he was really trying to do = DQ?

maybe they should just take turns, one punch each at a time, like vinnie jones in mean machine, much fairer that way

The fact that he didn't is not any poor reflection on him, but rather a measure of the fact that the pair of them were pretty evenly matched on the night.

How come in such an even contest one guy wins half way through. Maybe a bit of fortune somewhere?

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Everyone

I guess we should now count every single "post punch" effect i.e. KO, knockdown, stunned, wobbled, CUT, as PURE LUCK!??!!?!?!?!?

Thanks jukebox, no really

Only if we count all the effects of having a great defence as pure luck. Look at Floyd Mayweather the flukey devil.

Keep digging...

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:No way did Lewis throw that punch thinking "I'm going to cut his face apart with the laces on my glove."

Why not say that it was the effectiveness of Byrd's defence that broke VK's shoulder?

Where has the face palm emoticon gone? (Also bring back the sheep since Steffan has done one haha)

Where did this whopper come from? This is the worst attempt of WUMMING I've ever seen.

HumanWindmill wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Everyone

I guess we should now count every single "post punch" effect i.e. KO, knockdown, stunned, wobbled, CUT, as PURE LUCK!??!!?!?!?!?

Thanks jukebox, no really

Only if we count all the effects of having a great defence as pure luck. Look at Floyd Mayweather the flukey devil.

Regrettable, then, that Vitali's defence wasn't up to the job of protecting his injured eye while Lewis was peppering it with punches.

Maybe Vitali's shoulder wasn't up to the job of dealing with Chris Byrd's defence?

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:No way did Lewis throw that punch thinking "I'm going to cut his face apart with the laces on my glove."

Why not say that it was the effectiveness of Byrd's defence that broke VK's shoulder?

Where has the face palm emoticon gone? (Also bring back the sheep since Steffan has done one haha)

Where did this whopper come from? This is the worst attempt of WUMMING I've ever seen.

Was thinking just the same thing (re the facepalm). Not sure this is wumming tho, just stupidity. Maybe Lewis v Vit is the new 'Prime Tyson' topic for attracting all the numpties, what with lovely_london's previous tripe on the subject.

Another win for me

Maybe Vitali's shoulder wasn't up to the job of dealing with Chris Byrd's defence?

Either you're a massive WUM or just a complete numpti.

Take your pick and be done here

...and no flukey cuts stoppage either.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Everyone

I guess we should now count every single "post punch" effect i.e. KO, knockdown, stunned, wobbled, CUT, as PURE LUCK!??!!?!?!?!?

Thanks jukebox, no really

Only if we count all the effects of having a great defence as pure luck. Look at Floyd Mayweather the flukey devil.

Regrettable, then, that Vitali's defence wasn't up to the job of protecting his injured eye while Lewis was peppering it with punches.

Maybe Vitali's shoulder wasn't up to the job of dealing with Chris Byrd's defence?

Maybe it's because I don't box but could you explain to a lay person how an opponents defence can (legally) injure your shoulder??

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Another win for me

Almost as dubious as Lewis's win against Vitali

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Everyone

I guess we should now count every single "post punch" effect i.e. KO, knockdown, stunned, wobbled, CUT, as PURE LUCK!??!!?!?!?!?

Thanks jukebox, no really

Only if we count all the effects of having a great defence as pure luck. Look at Floyd Mayweather the flukey devil.

Regrettable, then, that Vitali's defence wasn't up to the job of protecting his injured eye while Lewis was peppering it with punches.

Maybe Vitali's shoulder wasn't up to the job of dealing with Chris Byrd's defence?

Keep digging and youll be in China soon.

Am sure Bryd went in there with the mind set of "if Vitali hits me with enough punches, maybe I can injure his shoulder"

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:

The fact that he didn't is not any poor reflection on him, but rather a measure of the fact that the pair of them were pretty evenly matched on the night.

How come in such an even contest one guy wins half way through. Maybe a bit of fortune somewhere?

Because it's the nature of boxing. Two big guys, both pretty heavy handed, both strong as bulls, both Hell bent on winning.

It's not rocket science.

I thought Vitali beat Lewis?

Union Cane wrote:I thought Vitali beat Lewis?

Lewis won the fight, Vitali won the event.

Byrd's defence, and it was VERY good, was all about defelecting shots. This put unexpected strain on VK's shoulder, tearing a rotator-cuff. There was obviously a lot of good fortune involved, but how many guys had Lewis stopped on cuts before? Can only people who understand the arguement continue posting please.

Lewis was most ungracious in his post-fight interview, perhaps this is what has upset JT so much.