Vitali K VS Haye

by tunes666 Thu 15 Sep 2011, 1:50 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ok I have a feeling this fight will happen as Haye will retire after anyway so I cant see contracts getting in the way.. Haye will fight for pride, and its still a good little pay day for VK, better than most options out there.

My first thoughts are that Haye would get knocked out but I am having second thoughts. I think Haye still has very dangerous power and his speed is always very dangerous, and while he may not knock VK out he can still give him reason for concern.

WK is faster that VK and I think it was WKs reflexes that helped him deal with Haye, But im not sure VK will cope with his speed as much and I think Haye may well have a shout at getting a SD or something with this one... I would not bed my house on it but I do feel open to it.

by **Union Cane** Tue 27 Sep 2011, 2:23 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Can only people who understand the arguement continue posting please.

by Soldier_Of_Fortune Tue 27 Sep 2011, 2:24 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Byrd's defence, and it was VERY good, was all about defelecting shots. This put unexpected strain on VK's shoulder, tearing a rotator-cuff. There was obviously a lot of good fortune involved, but how many guys had Lewis stopped on cuts before? Can only people who understand the arguement continue posting please.

When 606v2 do the Stupidest post of the year awards I want to nominate this one

by eddyfightfan Tue 27 Sep 2011, 2:24 pm

the highlight of vitalis career is losing to lewis on cuts whilst putting in a good effort.

by **HumanWindmill** Tue 27 Sep 2011, 2:25 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Byrd's defence, and it was VERY good, was all about defelecting shots. This put unexpected strain on VK's shoulder, tearing a rotator-cuff. There was obviously a lot of good fortune involved, but how many guys had Lewis stopped on cuts before? Can only people who understand the arguement continue posting please.

Can you refrain from dictating who should be allowed to post, please?

Thank you so much.

by **HumanWindmill** Tue 27 Sep 2011, 2:26 pm

PS to above.

How many opponents had Byrd stopped on shoulder injuries?

Absurd argument.

by **Union Cane** Tue 27 Sep 2011, 2:27 pm

Your argument is that as Lewis hadn't stopped anyone on cuts before, he shouldn't be allowed to......

Can't be bothered with this.

by Scottrf Tue 27 Sep 2011, 2:27 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Byrd's defence, and it was VERY good, was all about defelecting shots. This put unexpected strain on VK's shoulder, tearing a rotator-cuff. There was obviously a lot of good fortune involved, but how many guys had Lewis stopped on cuts before? Can only people who understand the arguement continue posting please.

Do you consider it a win if a boxer says beforehand they will knock out an opponent but they only win on points?

by eddyfightfan Tue 27 Sep 2011, 2:30 pm

i fail to see why so much resistance is put forward against lewis winning the fight by a perfectly legitimate way. he was years past his best, facing a prime vitali who was caught more often than he ever had before, by someone whos power rivaled his own. he never hurt lewis, but was landing himself, but was blowing out of his arris because he'd started to quick.

by Michaels, Sean Tue 27 Sep 2011, 2:31 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Byrd's defence, and it was VERY good, was all about defelecting shots. This put unexpected strain on VK's shoulder, tearing a rotator-cuff.

Very much like Hatton relied on delecting Pacquiao shots with his chin. Unfortunately for Hatton Pacquiao's trainer Roach had spent a lot of the time in the gym strengthening his rotator-cuff.

You could sy it was very unfortunate that Hatton came across such a strong rotator-cuff.

by coxy0001 Tue 27 Sep 2011, 2:32 pm

HumanWindmill wrote:PS to above.

How many opponents had Byrd stopped on shoulder injuries?

Absurd argument.

Perhaps jokebox should write to the WBC demanding a new "technical injury triumph" (T.I.T) be introduced? Whereby when a boxer deflects shots so brilliantly the other guy injures himself?

by Scottrf Tue 27 Sep 2011, 2:32 pm

Michaels, Sean wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Byrd's defence, and it was VERY good, was all about defelecting shots. This put unexpected strain on VK's shoulder, tearing a rotator-cuff.

Very much like Hatton relied on delecting Pacquiao shots with his chin. Unfortunately for Hatton Pacquiao's trainer Roach had spent a lot of the time in the gym strengthening his rotator-cuff.

You could sy it was very unfortunate that Hatton came across such a strong rotator-cuff.

One of the best in boxing. Roach is meticulous.

by **HumanWindmill** Tue 27 Sep 2011, 2:34 pm

Michaels, Sean wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Byrd's defence, and it was VERY good, was all about defelecting shots. This put unexpected strain on VK's shoulder, tearing a rotator-cuff.

Very much like Hatton relied on delecting Pacquiao shots with his chin. Unfortunately for Hatton Pacquiao's trainer Roach had spent a lot of the time in the gym strengthening his rotator-cuff.

You could sy it was very unfortunate that Hatton came across such a strong rotator-cuff.

Quite so.

Next time somebody writes a ' build a fantasy fighter ' thread we must urge him to include that most essential ingredient, the rotator cuff.

The jab of Larry Holmes, the left hook of Frazier, the rotator cuff of Notvitali..................

Makes the hairs on the back of the neck stand up, doesn't it?

by JDandfries Tue 27 Sep 2011, 2:36 pm

[.... but how many guys had Lewis stopped on cuts before? Can only people who understand the arguement continue posting please.[/quote]

I notice since he posted this, he hasn't posted again! furious

by Soldier_Of_Fortune Tue 27 Sep 2011, 2:41 pm

HumanWindmill wrote:
Michaels, Sean wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Byrd's defence, and it was VERY good, was all about defelecting shots. This put unexpected strain on VK's shoulder, tearing a rotator-cuff.

Very much like Hatton relied on delecting Pacquiao shots with his chin. Unfortunately for Hatton Pacquiao's trainer Roach had spent a lot of the time in the gym strengthening his rotator-cuff.

You could sy it was very unfortunate that Hatton came across such a strong rotator-cuff.

Quite so.

Next time somebody writes a ' build a fantasy fighter ' thread we must urge him to include that most essential ingredient, the rotator cuff.

The jab of Larry Holmes, the left hook of Frazier, the rotator cuff of Notvitali..................

Makes the hairs on the back of the neck stand up, doesn't it?

Or if will build the worst boxer we include, the chin of Paul Ryan, rotator cuff of Vitali, knees like Solis

by Rowley Tue 27 Sep 2011, 2:48 pm

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:
Michaels, Sean wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Byrd's defence, and it was VERY good, was all about defelecting shots. This put unexpected strain on VK's shoulder, tearing a rotator-cuff.

Very much like Hatton relied on delecting Pacquiao shots with his chin. Unfortunately for Hatton Pacquiao's trainer Roach had spent a lot of the time in the gym strengthening his rotator-cuff.

You could sy it was very unfortunate that Hatton came across such a strong rotator-cuff.

Quite so.

Next time somebody writes a ' build a fantasy fighter ' thread we must urge him to include that most essential ingredient, the rotator cuff.

The jab of Larry Holmes, the left hook of Frazier, the rotator cuff of Notvitali..................

Makes the hairs on the back of the neck stand up, doesn't it?

Or if will build the worst boxer we include, the chin of Paul Ryan, rotator cuff of Vitali, knees like Solis

Don't forget Haye's big toe.

by Scottrf Tue 27 Sep 2011, 2:49 pm

Damn, how I wish I still had Photoshop.

by Jukebox Timebomb Tue 27 Sep 2011, 3:51 pm

HumanWindmill wrote:
Michaels, Sean wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Byrd's defence, and it was VERY good, was all about defelecting shots. This put unexpected strain on VK's shoulder, tearing a rotator-cuff.

Very much like Hatton relied on delecting Pacquiao shots with his chin. Unfortunately for Hatton Pacquiao's trainer Roach had spent a lot of the time in the gym strengthening his rotator-cuff.

You could sy it was very unfortunate that Hatton came across such a strong rotator-cuff.

Quite so.

Next time somebody writes a ' build a fantasy fighter ' thread we must urge him to include that most essential ingredient, the rotator cuff.

The jab of Larry Holmes, the left hook of Frazier, the rotator cuff of Notvitali............and the cut causing capabiliteies of Lennox Lewis?

Makes the hairs on the back of the neck stand up, doesn't it?

by Jukebox Timebomb Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:01 pm

eddyfightfan wrote:the highlight of vitalis career is losing to lewis on cuts whilst putting in a good effort.

With hindsight, the highlight of Lewis' career was 'beating' VK by cuts stoppage whilst behind on the scorecards.

by John Bloody Wayne Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:06 pm

Not beating Holyfield twice?
Nor cleaning out a highly competetive 90's heavyweight division?
Beating every man he faced?

by Soldier_Of_Fortune Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:06 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:
eddyfightfan wrote:the highlight of vitalis career is losing to lewis on cuts whilst putting in a good effort.

With hindsight, the highlight of Lewis' career was 'beating' VK by cuts stoppage whilst behind on the scorecards.

No it wasnt

by The Galveston Giant Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:06 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:
eddyfightfan wrote:the highlight of vitalis career is losing to lewis on cuts whilst putting in a good effort.

With hindsight, the highlight of Lewis' career was 'beating' VK by cuts stoppage whilst behind on the scorecards.

You've took that too far.

by Jukebox Timebomb Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:13 pm

What else was there? a draw and a messy victory against an over-the-hill Holyfield?

In 20 years time people will look back at VK as a top HW. Who is the only person to beat him around his prime? Lennox (and Byrd of course).

It won't be looked back on as a great performance though. As Lennox was fortunate to cause a cuts stoppage.

by TopHat24/7 Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:13 pm

I think all this once decent thread has now allowed us to derive is that Jokebox is the new forum #1 ret@rd/WUM.

by The Galveston Giant Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:17 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:What else was there? a draw and a messy victory against an over-the-hill Holyfield?

In 20 years time people will look back at VK as a top HW. Who is the only person to beat him around his prime? Lennox (and Byrd of course).

It won't be looked back on as a great performance though. As Lennox was fortunate to cause a cuts stoppage.

The Heavyweight division died when Lewis retired, what does Vitali have that's so different from Andrew Golota.

by Jukebox Timebomb Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:17 pm

TopHat, remember my rule about not posting if you don't have the mental capacity to understand?

by manos de piedra Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:19 pm

The Galveston Giant wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:What else was there? a draw and a messy victory against an over-the-hill Holyfield?

In 20 years time people will look back at VK as a top HW. Who is the only person to beat him around his prime? Lennox (and Byrd of course).

It won't be looked back on as a great performance though. As Lennox was fortunate to cause a cuts stoppage.

The Heavyweight division died when Lewis retired, what does Vitali have that's so different from Andrew Golota.

A world title, better record and more talent

by Jukebox Timebomb Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:20 pm

The Galveston Giant wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:What else was there? a draw and a messy victory against an over-the-hill Holyfield?

In 20 years time people will look back at VK as a top HW. Who is the only person to beat him around his prime? Lennox (and Byrd of course).

It won't be looked back on as a great performance though. As Lennox was fortunate to cause a cuts stoppage.

The Heavyweight division died when Lewis retired, what does Vitali have that's so different from Andrew Golota.

errr....boxing skill, a chin, great stamina, massive strength, mental toughness....etc

by Scottrf Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:24 pm

Golota has skill and strength.

by John Bloody Wayne Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:29 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:What else was there? a draw and a messy victory against an over-the-hill Holyfield?

In 20 years time people will look back at VK as a top HW. Who is the only person to beat him around his prime? Lennox (and Byrd of course).

It won't be looked back on as a great performance though. As Lennox was fortunate to cause a cuts stoppage.

An over the hill but still very capable Holyfield is far better than anything Vitali's beaten, and there was no draw. He beat Evander twice. The heavyweight division Lewis' fought in was full of motivated, in shape, dangerous fighters. All of them vying for glory. That's the divison he fought, and he fought everyone who'd face him. He also took apart guys who were meant to be dangerous in double quick time. Look at their respective performences against Briggs. Vitali was the cherry on top of Lewis' career, but had he retired pre-Vitali I don't see him being in the Klistchko's shadow, or their failure to unify.

by manos de piedra Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:29 pm

Theres no comparison either on paper or otherwise between Vitali and Golota to be be fair. It would be like saying what has Lewis got that Bruno doesnt have?

by Scottrf Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:31 pm

manos de piedra wrote:Theres no comparison either on paper or otherwise between Vitali and Golota to be be fair. It would be like saying what has Lewis got that Bruno doesnt have?

I dunno, Vitali ever outboxed anyone as good as Bowe?

by The Galveston Giant Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:33 pm

manos de piedra wrote:Theres no comparison either on paper or otherwise between Vitali and Golota to be be fair. It would be like saying what has Lewis got that Bruno doesnt have?

I'm not talking about on paper, i'm talking about the times they have fought in.

by manos de piedra Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:36 pm

Scottrf wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Theres no comparison either on paper or otherwise between Vitali and Golota to be be fair. It would be like saying what has Lewis got that Bruno doesnt have?
I dunno, Vitali ever outboxed anyone as good as Bowe?

You could argue Lewis.

Plus has Vitali ever lost to the likes of Brewster, Grant, Brewster and so on or was sparked inside one round by Lewis?

The indications would appear to be that Bowe was pretty much a shadow of his best version for the Golota fights at any rate so its far from certain that this was a peak and fully motivated Bowe.

Theres also no comparison as to what they have acheived in the sport.

If people want to argue Golota is on a par or not much below, fair enough but I honestly cant see a case for it.

by The Galveston Giant Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:36 pm

And Golota fought Lewis when he was in his prime, not in his last fight when he was supposed to be fighting Kevin Johnson the week before.

by Scottrf Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:38 pm

manos de piedra wrote:If people want to argue Golota is on a par or not much below, fair enough but I honestly cant see a case for it.

Not in career terms but in how they boxed at their best I don't think it's outlandish. Vitali has strengths and doesn't have some of the weaknesses Golota did though.

Lets not forget it was hardly a peak Lewis either.

by manos de piedra Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:38 pm

The Galveston Giant wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Theres no comparison either on paper or otherwise between Vitali and Golota to be be fair. It would be like saying what has Lewis got that Bruno doesnt have?

I'm not talking about on paper, i'm talking about the times they have fought in.

In what sense?

by BALTIMORA Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:38 pm

HumanWindmill wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Byrd's defence, and it was VERY good, was all about defelecting shots. This put unexpected strain on VK's shoulder, tearing a rotator-cuff. There was obviously a lot of good fortune involved, but how many guys had Lewis stopped on cuts before? Can only people who understand the arguement continue posting please.

Can you refrain from dictating who should be allowed to post, please?

Thank you so much.

Everyone understands the argument Windy. Apart from one individual we all seem to think it's absolute toss, too.

by The Galveston Giant Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:38 pm

manos de piedra wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Theres no comparison either on paper or otherwise between Vitali and Golota to be be fair. It would be like saying what has Lewis got that Bruno doesnt have?
I dunno, Vitali ever outboxed anyone as good as Bowe?

You could argue Lewis.

Plus has Vitali ever lost to the likes of Brewster, Grant, Brewster and so on or was sparked inside one round by Lewis?

The indications would appear to be that Bowe was pretty much a shadow of his best version for the Golota fights at any rate so its far from certain that this was a peak and fully motivated Bowe.

Theres also no comparison as to what they have acheived in the sport.

If people want to argue Golota is on a par or not much below, fair enough but I honestly cant see a case for it.

Bowe would give Vitali nighmares, i'm not sure he would stand on the outside terrified to mix it up.

by JDandfries Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:39 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:What else was there? a draw and a messy victory against an over-the-hill Holyfield?

In 20 years time people will look back at VK as a top HW. Who is the only person to beat him around his prime? Lennox (and Byrd of course).

It won't be looked back on as a great performance though. As Lennox was fortunate to cause a cuts stoppage.

So given that Lewis is so bad, according to you, how does being defeated by him make your arguement look?

Pretty crap i'd say

by BALTIMORA Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:41 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:
eddyfightfan wrote:the highlight of vitalis career is losing to lewis on cuts whilst putting in a good effort.

With hindsight, the highlight of Lewis' career was 'beating' VK by cuts stoppage whilst behind on the scorecards.

It's a good job he did because as everyone knows the judges stop scoring after the first six rounds and anything after then is deemed irrelevant.

by The Galveston Giant Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:43 pm

manos de piedra wrote:
The Galveston Giant wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Theres no comparison either on paper or otherwise between Vitali and Golota to be be fair. It would be like saying what has Lewis got that Bruno doesnt have?

I'm not talking about on paper, i'm talking about the times they have fought in.

In what sense?

In a sense that Vitali has made his name when the Heavyweight division has been poor.It's only of late that he's been talked about so highly. Golota fought when there was a lot more/better competition. As an example Vitali could fight Holyfield, who was in his prime when Golota was around. Holyfield will fight for a World title soon.

by TopHat24/7 Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:49 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:TopHat, remember my rule about not posting if you don't have the mental capacity to understand?

Sir, I have more mental capacity in one sperm than you have in your entire body. Keep swimming against the tide of ridicule there kiddo...

by manos de piedra Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:49 pm

Well whats the basis for Golota being similar/on a par with Vitali? He had some strengths yes but overall he was an inferior fighter to Vitali in my view. Im not sure what the argument that he isnt is based on?

Even if you take out the top guys that Golota faced like Bowe (questionable in my view), Lewis and Tyson who both hammered him his record against the likes of Byrd, Brewster, Ruiz sort of second tier guys is pretty poor also and this is the kind of competition that Vitali has been dominating relatively easily so all things considered if it were Golota around now instead of the Klitschkos I dont see him being remotely as dominant.

Golota seems to be living off those Bowe fights alot. People may argue the same sort of thing with Klitschko and Lewis but the difference for me is that Klitschko went on to dominate in a way Golota never did who ended up losing to almost every half decent fighter he faced and had acheived more beforehand.

by tunes666 Tue 27 Sep 2011, 4:57 pm

Regarding Lewis and VK

It always makes me laugh hope people do not except Lewis won.
ITS FACT, he won after the rules of Boxing were put into place.

Lewis was past his best and not as fit as he had been and the fight was also arranged at short notice.

VK started great and had Lewis in trouble, clearly taking the first 3 rounds and pinching the 4th.... but you could see he threw everything into those rounds and I hardly think he was going to keep it up for 12 rounds!... no way.

You could see Lewis starting to land the better punches and and VK was starting to look shot... and you even heard Lewis say to his corner "ok, I got him.... I got him" which does not sound like he was short of belief... he was also right as VK was shot and his face looked like a stake.

The fact is if that had gone on another round or two, VKs face would have been in a horrible state as the cut was nasty... so the fight was stopped on cuts.

Lewis won, simple as that...

If they had a rematch Lewis could have come in fitter, and with more prep time. and given his history of rematches then you work it out.

by The Galveston Giant Tue 27 Sep 2011, 5:11 pm

manos de piedra wrote:Well whats the basis for Golota being similar/on a par with Vitali? He had some strengths yes but overall he was an inferior fighter to Vitali in my view. Im not sure what the argument that he isnt is based on?

Even if you take out the top guys that Golota faced like Bowe (questionable in my view), Lewis and Tyson who both hammered him his record against the likes of Byrd, Brewster, Ruiz sort of second tier guys is pretty poor also and this is the kind of competition that Vitali has been dominating relatively easily so all things considered if it were Golota around now instead of the Klitschkos I dont see him being remotely as dominant.

Golota seems to be living off those Bowe fights alot. People may argue the same sort of thing with Klitschko and Lewis but the difference for me is that Klitschko went on to dominate in a way Golota never did who ended up losing to almost every half decent fighter he faced and had acheived more beforehand.

Back in Golota's day there was 2nd tier fighters, there isn't now. A lot of there competition is leftovers from Golota's era, if there was competition coming through guys like Holyfield and Mercer wouldn't be fighting now. If Vitali fought Golota's career he would't be much more succesful than he was. All we have to base Vitali on is his fight against Lewis. The rest are gash.

by manos de piedra Tue 27 Sep 2011, 5:32 pm

The Galveston Giant wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Well whats the basis for Golota being similar/on a par with Vitali? He had some strengths yes but overall he was an inferior fighter to Vitali in my view. Im not sure what the argument that he isnt is based on?

Even if you take out the top guys that Golota faced like Bowe (questionable in my view), Lewis and Tyson who both hammered him his record against the likes of Byrd, Brewster, Ruiz sort of second tier guys is pretty poor also and this is the kind of competition that Vitali has been dominating relatively easily so all things considered if it were Golota around now instead of the Klitschkos I dont see him being remotely as dominant.

Golota seems to be living off those Bowe fights alot. People may argue the same sort of thing with Klitschko and Lewis but the difference for me is that Klitschko went on to dominate in a way Golota never did who ended up losing to almost every half decent fighter he faced and had acheived more beforehand.

Back in Golota's day there was 2nd tier fighters, there isn't now. A lot of there competition is leftovers from Golota's era, if there was competition coming through guys like Holyfield and Mercer wouldn't be fighting now. If Vitali fought Golota's career he would't be much more succesful than he was. All we have to base Vitali on is his fight against Lewis. The rest are gash.

Have to disagree with you on this one. The two are similarly aged and the likes of Ruiz, Brewster, Grant are not much better than Arreola, Donald, Sanders, Peter, Adamek and Gomez who Vitali has been dominating. I seriously cant see Vitali losing to Ruiz or Brewster for instance and I would also give him more than a decent shot at beating the Bowe that Golota faced.

Who were all the second tier guys that Golota beat? Vitali dominated the field, Golota couldnt notwithstanding Lewis/Tyson.

The argument if x or y was around then or now can be used against any fighter but in this instance I dont think Golota would handle Vitalis opposition remotely as well and I cant see Vitali being blasted out in a round by a peak Lewis and or the shenanigans in the Tyson fight where he was floored early and quit. Vitali is just a much more formidable boxer overall than Golota and always would be regardless of era or competition.

by The Galveston Giant Tue 27 Sep 2011, 5:36 pm

manos de piedra wrote:
The Galveston Giant wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Well whats the basis for Golota being similar/on a par with Vitali? He had some strengths yes but overall he was an inferior fighter to Vitali in my view. Im not sure what the argument that he isnt is based on?

Even if you take out the top guys that Golota faced like Bowe (questionable in my view), Lewis and Tyson who both hammered him his record against the likes of Byrd, Brewster, Ruiz sort of second tier guys is pretty poor also and this is the kind of competition that Vitali has been dominating relatively easily so all things considered if it were Golota around now instead of the Klitschkos I dont see him being remotely as dominant.

Golota seems to be living off those Bowe fights alot. People may argue the same sort of thing with Klitschko and Lewis but the difference for me is that Klitschko went on to dominate in a way Golota never did who ended up losing to almost every half decent fighter he faced and had acheived more beforehand.

Back in Golota's day there was 2nd tier fighters, there isn't now. A lot of there competition is leftovers from Golota's era, if there was competition coming through guys like Holyfield and Mercer wouldn't be fighting now. If Vitali fought Golota's career he would't be much more succesful than he was. All we have to base Vitali on is his fight against Lewis. The rest are gash.

Have to disagree with you on this one. The two are similarly aged and the likes of Ruiz, Brewster, Grant are not much better than Arreola, Donald, Sanders, Peter, Adamek and Gomez who Vitali has been dominating. I seriously cant see Vitali losing to Ruiz or Brewster for instance and I would also give him more than a decent shot at beating the Bowe that Golota faced.

Who were all the second tier guys that Golota beat? Vitali dominated the field, Golota couldnt notwithstanding Lewis/Tyson.

The argument if x or y was around then or now can be used against any fighter but in this instance I dont think Golota would handle Vitalis opposition remotely as well and I cant see Vitali being blasted out in a round by a peak Lewis and or the shenanigans in the Tyson fight where he was floored early and quit. Vitali is just a much more formidable boxer overall than Golota and always would be regardless of era or competition.

Nobody, he was the 2nd tier that Lewis faced, Vitali doesn't have such opposition.

by manos de piedra Tue 27 Sep 2011, 5:41 pm

The Galveston Giant wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:
The Galveston Giant wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Well whats the basis for Golota being similar/on a par with Vitali? He had some strengths yes but overall he was an inferior fighter to Vitali in my view. Im not sure what the argument that he isnt is based on?

Even if you take out the top guys that Golota faced like Bowe (questionable in my view), Lewis and Tyson who both hammered him his record against the likes of Byrd, Brewster, Ruiz sort of second tier guys is pretty poor also and this is the kind of competition that Vitali has been dominating relatively easily so all things considered if it were Golota around now instead of the Klitschkos I dont see him being remotely as dominant.

Golota seems to be living off those Bowe fights alot. People may argue the same sort of thing with Klitschko and Lewis but the difference for me is that Klitschko went on to dominate in a way Golota never did who ended up losing to almost every half decent fighter he faced and had acheived more beforehand.

Back in Golota's day there was 2nd tier fighters, there isn't now. A lot of there competition is leftovers from Golota's era, if there was competition coming through guys like Holyfield and Mercer wouldn't be fighting now. If Vitali fought Golota's career he would't be much more succesful than he was. All we have to base Vitali on is his fight against Lewis. The rest are gash.

Have to disagree with you on this one. The two are similarly aged and the likes of Ruiz, Brewster, Grant are not much better than Arreola, Donald, Sanders, Peter, Adamek and Gomez who Vitali has been dominating. I seriously cant see Vitali losing to Ruiz or Brewster for instance and I would also give him more than a decent shot at beating the Bowe that Golota faced.

Who were all the second tier guys that Golota beat? Vitali dominated the field, Golota couldnt notwithstanding Lewis/Tyson.

The argument if x or y was around then or now can be used against any fighter but in this instance I dont think Golota would handle Vitalis opposition remotely as well and I cant see Vitali being blasted out in a round by a peak Lewis and or the shenanigans in the Tyson fight where he was floored early and quit. Vitali is just a much more formidable boxer overall than Golota and always would be regardless of era or competition.

Nobody, he was the 2nd tier that Lewis faced, Vitali doesn't have such opposition.

Pesonally I dont think Golota is all that much better than the chasing competition around now. Maybe hes a little better but not drastically. I dont think theres much argument that Lewis had better opposition than Vitali to face but I thought the point was in relation to a comparison between Golota and Vitali.

I just dont really see how the two are comparable. If Vitali came onto the scene in 1997 instead of now he may not be as dominant a champion with Lewis there but I would not relegate him to a second tier status. Likewise if you swapped Golota in to the present day scene there I dont think he dominates the competion even as poor as it is now as his losses to Ruiz, Brewster, Grant and so on would indicate a guy thats very much tier two whereas Vitali is very much tier one.

by Jukebox Timebomb Tue 27 Sep 2011, 5:51 pm

Golota??? now who's on the WUM

A peak Bowe struggled against Herbie Hide. A guy VK blew away with a jab inside 2 rounds. Bowe was a member of the over-hyped American club, not he nor Golota were on Lewis or VK's level.

I rate Lewis above VK by the way. Some can't seem to grasp that what I'm saying is that Lewis got a bit of luck in their fight. That's not saying that VK would have gone on and won if not for the cut. If we consider Lewis threw probably 20 000 punches in his career with maybe 20 of them causing cuts, it was very fortunate that one of them happened at exactly the right time for him against VK.

by **HumanWindmill** Tue 27 Sep 2011, 5:54 pm

PM for you, Jukebox.

Suggest you read and digest.

Pronto.

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