Vitali K VS Haye

First topic message reminder :

Ok I have a feeling this fight will happen as Haye will retire after anyway so I cant see contracts getting in the way.. Haye will fight for pride, and its still a good little pay day for VK, better than most options out there.

My first thoughts are that Haye would get knocked out but I am having second thoughts. I think Haye still has very dangerous power and his speed is always very dangerous, and while he may not knock VK out he can still give him reason for concern.

WK is faster that VK and I think it was WKs reflexes that helped him deal with Haye, But im not sure VK will cope with his speed as much and I think Haye may well have a shout at getting a SD or something with this one... I would not bed my house on it but I do feel open to it.

here are the fight stats

Klitschko

Jabs: 77
Power shots:79
Total: 156

Lewis

Jabs: 52
Power shots: 50
Total: 102

lovely_london wrote:here are the fight stats

Klitschko

Jabs: 77
Power shots:79
Total: 156

Lewis

Jabs: 52
Power shots: 50
Total: 102

And..? The fight was swinging in Lewis' favour and had it continued he'd have probably stopped Vitali late on.

lovely_london wrote:here are the fight stats

Klitschko

Jabs: 77
Power shots:79
Total: 156

Lewis

Jabs: 52
Power shots: 50
Total: 102

What's your point Lewis busted him open and worked on the cut.

prettyboykev wrote:

lovely_london wrote:here are the fight stats

Klitschko

Jabs: 77
Power shots:79
Total: 156

Lewis

Jabs: 52
Power shots: 50
Total: 102

What's your point Lewis busted him open and worked on the cut.

When someone lands 54 punches more than you and that includes 29 more power shots you can hardly scream that it was a great victory.

What's Lewis supposed to do? Concede the win? When did he state it was a 'great' victory?

lovely_london wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

lovely_london wrote:here are the fight stats

Klitschko

Jabs: 77
Power shots:79
Total: 156

Lewis

Jabs: 52
Power shots: 50
Total: 102

What's your point Lewis busted him open and worked on the cut.

When someone lands 54 punches more than you and that includes 29 more power shots you can hardly scream that it was a great victory.

Lewis was well past it and out of shape. Considering Vitali's dominance since it was a great win.

Vitali was a 4-1 underdog!!!!

Anyway I just felt the need to correct some of the people on here who said Lewis dominatted the fight. He clearly didn't and was very LUCKY to win.

Opening a cut on your opponent and then working on it until he can't continue isn't lucky. It's called good tactics and accurate punching!

Watch the fight again and listen to what Steward is telling Lewis. He tells him to work on the cut and throw the uppercut.

prettyboykev wrote:Opening a cut on your opponent and then working on it until he can't continue isn't lucky. It's called good tactics and accurate punching!

Watch the fight again and listen to what Steward is telling Lewis. He tells him to work on the cut and throw the uppercut.

Lewis was dominated end of!!!!!! Stats prove Vitali was the better fighter. Judges scorecards prove vitali was winning. Argue all you want about the cut but it proves nothing about who was winning.

lovely_london wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:Opening a cut on your opponent and then working on it until he can't continue isn't lucky. It's called good tactics and accurate punching!

Watch the fight again and listen to what Steward is telling Lewis. He tells him to work on the cut and throw the uppercut.

Lewis was dominated end of!!!!!! Stats prove Vitali was the better fighter. Judges scorecards prove vitali was winning. Argue all you want about the cut but it proves nothing about who was winning.

Mate you know nothing about boxing. Lewis won legitimately. It was stopped early so scorecards and stats count for nothing just like a KO.

lovely_london wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:Opening a cut on your opponent and then working on it until he can't continue isn't lucky. It's called good tactics and accurate punching!

Watch the fight again and listen to what Steward is telling Lewis. He tells him to work on the cut and throw the uppercut.

Lewis was dominated end of!!!!!! Stats prove Vitali was the better fighter. Judges scorecards prove vitali was winning. Argue all you want about the cut but it proves nothing about who was winning.

Have you seen the fight?

Does the winner of the fight count as a stat?

It counts for more than punch stats.

LondonLion wrote:

lovely_london wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:Opening a cut on your opponent and then working on it until he can't continue isn't lucky. It's called good tactics and accurate punching!

Watch the fight again and listen to what Steward is telling Lewis. He tells him to work on the cut and throw the uppercut.

Lewis was dominated end of!!!!!! Stats prove Vitali was the better fighter. Judges scorecards prove vitali was winning. Argue all you want about the cut but it proves nothing about who was winning.

Have you seen the fight?

We are not talking about who won the fight. We are talking about who was winning the fight. Klitschko landed more blows and was ahead on the scorecards.

The question you should answer is who do you think was winning the fight before it ended? If your answer does not include the name klitschko than you are obviously very deluded and either anti-klitschko or a massive lewis fan and your like/hate is preventing you from viewing the fight as a neutral.

lovely_london wrote:

LondonLion wrote:

lovely_london wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:Opening a cut on your opponent and then working on it until he can't continue isn't lucky. It's called good tactics and accurate punching!

Watch the fight again and listen to what Steward is telling Lewis. He tells him to work on the cut and throw the uppercut.

Lewis was dominated end of!!!!!! Stats prove Vitali was the better fighter. Judges scorecards prove vitali was winning. Argue all you want about the cut but it proves nothing about who was winning.

Have you seen the fight?

We are not talking about who won the fight. We are talking about who was winning the fight. Klitschko landed more blows and was ahead on the scorecards.

The question you should answer is who do you think was winning the fight before it ended? If your answer does not include the name klitschko than you are obviously very deluded and either anti-klitschko or a massive lewis fan and your like/hate is preventing you from viewing the fight as a neutral.

But it doesn't matter who was winning at that satge in Lewis's career it proves nothing. I'm a huge Klitschko fan probably the biggest on this site and I'm, always a massive lewis fan and regard him as a top 10 ATG heavy.

I fail to see how it is more important who was winning the fight than who won it. It's actually quite ridiculous to view that as being the more important aspect.

There was people on here talking as if lewis schooled Klitschko. And the truth is that Klitschko schooled lewis.

4-2 wasn't it in rounds? Oh, and then Lewis stopped Klitschko on a pretty nasty cut he'd opened up and hammered away at. I'm still failing to see it your way, as, it seems, is everyone else.

lovely_london wrote:There was people on here talking as if lewis schooled Klitschko. And the truth is that Klitschko schooled lewis.

Ridiculous statement! Go watch some boxing then come back and I might actually take what your saying seriously!

slash912 wrote:4-2 wasn't it in rounds? Oh, and then Lewis stopped Klitschko on a pretty nasty cut he'd opened up and hammered away at. I'm still failing to see it your way, as, it seems, is everyone else.

What do you fail to see? The fact Klitschkp landed 50+ more punches than Lewis? Or the fact Klitschkp was winning by 2 rounds? Because that is my proof that Klitschko was winning the fight.

lovely_london wrote:

slash912 wrote:4-2 wasn't it in rounds? Oh, and then Lewis stopped Klitschko on a pretty nasty cut he'd opened up and hammered away at. I'm still failing to see it your way, as, it seems, is everyone else.

What do you fail to see? The fact Klitschkp landed 50+ more punches than Lewis? Or the fact Klitschkp was winning by 2 rounds? Because that is my proof that Klitschko was winning the fight.

The point is it doesn't matter because Lewis won on cuts which he opened and worked on.

prettyboykev wrote:

lovely_london wrote:

slash912 wrote:4-2 wasn't it in rounds? Oh, and then Lewis stopped Klitschko on a pretty nasty cut he'd opened up and hammered away at. I'm still failing to see it your way, as, it seems, is everyone else.

What do you fail to see? The fact Klitschkp landed 50+ more punches than Lewis? Or the fact Klitschkp was winning by 2 rounds? Because that is my proof that Klitschko was winning the fight.

The point is it doesn't matter because Lewis won on cuts which he opened and worked on.

No one is arguing who won. The referee stopped the fight due to a cut. However I was debating who was winning the fight and it is clear that it is Klitschko.

lovely_london wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

lovely_london wrote:

slash912 wrote:4-2 wasn't it in rounds? Oh, and then Lewis stopped Klitschko on a pretty nasty cut he'd opened up and hammered away at. I'm still failing to see it your way, as, it seems, is everyone else.

What do you fail to see? The fact Klitschkp landed 50+ more punches than Lewis? Or the fact Klitschkp was winning by 2 rounds? Because that is my proof that Klitschko was winning the fight.

The point is it doesn't matter because Lewis won on cuts which he opened and worked on.

No one is arguing who won. The referee stopped the fight due to a cut. However I was debating who was winning the fight and it is clear that it is Klitschko.

He was two rounds ahead not a wide margin and certainly not something Lewis couldn't have turned around if the fight had went on. It's not like Vitali dominated every round and Lewis burst him open with one shot and got lucky. Like I said good tactics and accurate punching won Lewis the fight.

What Kev said. Also, you were the only person debating who was winning the fight. We're well aware of the facts.

He was two rounds ahead not a wide margin and certainly not something Lewis couldn't have turned around if the fight had went on. It's not like Vitali dominated every round and Lewis burst him open with one shot and got lucky. Like I said good tactics and accurate punching won Lewis the fight..
............................................................................................

The fight stopped after 6 rounds so any talk of what lewis could have done if the fight went longer is just speculation.

Vitali landed more punches in every single round. So that looks like domination to me.

lovely_london wrote:He was two rounds ahead not a wide margin and certainly not something Lewis couldn't have turned around if the fight had went on. It's not like Vitali dominated every round and Lewis burst him open with one shot and got lucky. Like I said good tactics and accurate punching won Lewis the fight..
............................................................................................

The fight stopped after 6 rounds so any talk of what lewis could have done if the fight went longer is just speculation.

Vitali landed more punches in every single round. So that looks like domination to me.

Read what I said! I said "He (Vitali) was two rounds ahead not a wide margin and certainly not something Lewis couldn't have turned around if the fight had went on.

I never said Lewis would have turned it around I never said he wouldn't have because it's irrelevant. Vitali was 2 rounds up on the scorecards after 6 that's not dominating!

After 6 rounds of a fight it doesn't really matter who's up on the scorecards, unless there is an accidental headbutt they are an irrelevance until the final bell. You also seem to wish to speculate without allowing anyone else to do the same.

lovely_london wrote:Vitali was a 4-1 underdog!!!!

Anyway I just felt the need to correct some of the people on here who said Lewis dominatted the fight. He clearly didn't and was very LUCKY to win.

Correct? Behave. Nobody said Lewis dominated the fight, we all know Vit fought valiantly and was ahead of the cards. But Lewis had won the last two rounds and had caused the most significant damage. As Kev points out, opening up a cut and then working on it is shrewd boxing, not lucky or a fluke. Neither fighter dominated 'the fight', Vitali dominated rounds 1-4, Lewis 5&6, the fight was only half way though for God's sake!

Lovely London - what a guy you are!!!

This kindo f thing happens all the time - and is totally irrelevent, all that matters is the outcome.

Klitchko was winning the fight - Lewis wins by stoppage
Taylor was winning the fight - Froch wins by stoppage
McCelland was winning the fight - Benn won by stoppage
Foreman winning the fight - Ali wins by stoppage
Graham was winning the fight - Jackson wins by stoppage

But I am sure he knows that, and I think he is trying to say lewis was lucky to win - all i say is, actually watch teh fight, the tide was turning and momentum firmly with lewis, then if you still aint sure, look at Vitali's face!

Mr Bounce wrote:

lovely_london wrote:you guys seriously know how to exagerate. he had a cut above his eyebrow. you are acting as if his face was on fire and dripping off.

fair enough the cut was deep but it was just a cut above the eyebrow. And Lewis received a lot of damage his nose was broken.

Hmmmm

http://allhiphop.com/photos/blog_pictures/images/20566884/secondarythumb.aspx

Fairly graphic statement Bounce.

That said the major cut was on the inside of his mouth. 60 stitches the 'nick' required....

JDandfries wrote:Lovely London - what a guy you are!!!

This kindo f thing happens all the time - and is totally irrelevent, all that matters is the outcome.

Klitchko was winning the fight - Lewis wins by stoppage
Taylor was winning the fight - Froch wins by stoppage
McCelland was winning the fight - Benn won by stoppage
Foreman winning the fight - Ali wins by stoppage
Graham was winning the fight - Jackson wins by stoppage

But I am sure he knows that, and I think he is trying to say lewis was lucky to win - all i say is, actually watch teh fight, the tide was turning and momentum firmly with lewis, then if you still aint sure, look at Vitali's face!

Are you serious? In the last round Klitschko landed more punches than lewis. So how does that show the tide was turning? And the cut was made in the 3rd round not the 6th.

And let's not forget lewis's nose was broken.

lovely_london wrote:

JDandfries wrote:Lovely London - what a guy you are!!!

This kindo f thing happens all the time - and is totally irrelevent, all that matters is the outcome.

Klitchko was winning the fight - Lewis wins by stoppage
Taylor was winning the fight - Froch wins by stoppage
McCelland was winning the fight - Benn won by stoppage
Foreman winning the fight - Ali wins by stoppage
Graham was winning the fight - Jackson wins by stoppage

But I am sure he knows that, and I think he is trying to say lewis was lucky to win - all i say is, actually watch teh fight, the tide was turning and momentum firmly with lewis, then if you still aint sure, look at Vitali's face!

Are you serious? In the last round Klitschko landed more punches than lewis. So how does that show the tide was turning? And the cut was made in the 3rd round not the 6th.

And let's not forget lewis's nose was broken.

You're almost as bad as D4........!

lovely_london wrote:

JDandfries wrote:Lovely London - what a guy you are!!!

This kindo f thing happens all the time - and is totally irrelevent, all that matters is the outcome.

Klitchko was winning the fight - Lewis wins by stoppage
Taylor was winning the fight - Froch wins by stoppage
McCelland was winning the fight - Benn won by stoppage
Foreman winning the fight - Ali wins by stoppage
Graham was winning the fight - Jackson wins by stoppage

But I am sure he knows that, and I think he is trying to say lewis was lucky to win - all i say is, actually watch teh fight, the tide was turning and momentum firmly with lewis, then if you still aint sure, look at Vitali's face!

Are you serious? In the last round Klitschko landed more punches than lewis. So how does that show the tide was turning? And the cut was made in the 3rd round not the 6th.

And let's not forget lewis's nose was broken.

Is this the return of Fedor?????

Only one way to find out Sean Alan Wells vs Usain Bolt, who wins?

I think it could be fedor.

If I knew the number of punches that landed was all that mattered.......

SUGGEST YOU ACTUALLY WATCH THE FIGHT!!!

Clueless

Heavyweight history is absolutely littered with examples whereby the title changed hands, or remained in the hands of the defending champion, by virtue of come - from - behind wins.

All the way back to Corbett v Fitzsimmons in 1897 and all the way through to Hasim Rahman knocking out Lennox Lewis there have been many examples, some of them extremely high profile and some of which have, quite literally, changed the heavyweight landscape for good. Marciano v Walcott and Foreman v Moorer would be two excellent examples.

Had Lewis knocked Vitali out with a combo, or had he unleashed a volley which had left Klitschko propped up against the ropes, we wouldn't be having this discussion. As it is, the fight was ended by a cut. Unsatisfactory, granted, but a legitimate means of winning and losing a fight.

Whether we like it or not.

I don't think it was unsatisfactory at all, there were about 5 cuts, all of which gave an indication of teh accuracy of Lewis's punches - couldnt see VK lasting more than another 3 rounds anyway.

A good win by Lewis, who to be fair was out of condition and almost retired at that stage

JDandfries wrote:I don't think it was unsatisfactory at all, there were about 5 cuts, all of which gave an indication of teh accuracy of Lewis's punches - couldnt see VK lasting more than another 3 rounds anyway.

A good win by Lewis, who to be fair was out of condition and almost retired at that stage

Neither do I, JD.

I'm just making the point that some do find it unsatisfactory, but that this doesn't render the win any less legitimate.

rowley wrote:Only one way to find out Sean Alan Wells vs Usain Bolt, who wins?

Alan Wells of course!

Who is the better actor, Perry Fenwick (Billy in Eastenders) or Sydney Poitier?

Michaels, Sean wrote:

rowley wrote:Only one way to find out Sean Alan Wells vs Usain Bolt, who wins?

Alan Wells of course!

Who is the better actor, Perry Fenwick (Billy in Eastenders) or Sydney Poitier?

An Sidney Poitier, David Brent's favourite actor.

Haye would smash Vitali Klitschko into retirement...Haye breaks Vitali down for a late knockout.

The genius of PBF wrote:Haye would smash Vitali Klitschko into retirement...Haye breaks Vitali down for a late knockout.

Really?

Michaels, Sean wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:Haye would smash Vitali Klitschko into retirement...Haye breaks Vitali down for a late knockout.

Really?

How this kid won the prediction league I have no idea....!

Haye went into hiding against WK, where he had a chance of a KO - what will he be like against VK, who actually enjoys a fight??

Not a chance, man against boy - i can see Vk punishing him like Lewis did to Tyson

Think we should all wait to see how the toe heals before we make a prediction.

If Vitali comes to fight against Haye he gets knocked out...It makes me laugh how you all buy into this myth that Vitali cant be hurt.

He was on the verge of being knocked out against Lewis, by the end of the 6th round he was hanging on for dear life...He was lucky the fight was stopped which saved him the embarrassment of being picked off the canvas.

Lets also not forget how he was rocked and hurt by Corrie Sanders...Luckily for him Sanders is fat and cant fight at the same intensity after the first few rounds...Haye can keep this up for all 12 rounds.

Vitali does not have the speed or athletiscm of his brother and this will cost him against Haye.

I believe in David Haye's talent...You need to have fought in the ring to truly understand boxing.

The genius of PBF wrote:If Vitali comes to fight against Haye he gets knocked out...It makes me laugh how you all buy into this myth that Vitali cant be hurt.

He was on the verge of being knocked out against Lewis, by the end of the 6th round he was hanging on for dear life...He was lucky the fight was stopped which saved him the embarrassment of being picked off the canvas.

Lets also not forget how he was rocked and hurt by Corrie Sanders...Luckily for him Sanders is fat and cant fight at the same intensity after the first few rounds...Haye can keep this up for all 12 rounds.

Vitali does not have the speed or athletiscm of his brother and this will cost him against Haye.

I believe in David Haye's talent...You need to have fought in the ring to truly understand boxing.

Interesting points. Fair play

I was going to respond directly to PBF, but I reaslise he is on the WUM again, every he makes is bollox

The genius of PBF wrote:If Vitali comes to fight against Haye he gets knocked out...It makes me laugh how you all buy into this myth that Vitali cant be hurt.

He was on the verge of being knocked out against Lewis, by the end of the 6th round he was hanging on for dear life...He was lucky the fight was stopped which saved him the embarrassment of being picked off the canvas.

Lets also not forget how he was rocked and hurt by Corrie Sanders...Luckily for him Sanders is fat and cant fight at the same intensity after the first few rounds...Haye can keep this up for all 12 rounds.

Vitali does not have the speed or athletiscm of his brother and this will cost him against Haye.

I believe in David Haye's talent...You need to have fought in the ring to truly understand boxing.

Haye's power isn't in the same league as Lewis' nor can he keep up a high level of intensity for 12 rounds, the Wlad fight destroyed any aura he once had as a dangerous fighter.

The Money Man wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:If Vitali comes to fight against Haye he gets knocked out...It makes me laugh how you all buy into this myth that Vitali cant be hurt.

He was on the verge of being knocked out against Lewis, by the end of the 6th round he was hanging on for dear life...He was lucky the fight was stopped which saved him the embarrassment of being picked off the canvas.

Lets also not forget how he was rocked and hurt by Corrie Sanders...Luckily for him Sanders is fat and cant fight at the same intensity after the first few rounds...Haye can keep this up for all 12 rounds.

Vitali does not have the speed or athletiscm of his brother and this will cost him against Haye.

I believe in David Haye's talent...You need to have fought in the ring to truly understand boxing.

Haye's power isn't in the same league as Lewis' nor can he keep up a high level of intensity for 12 rounds, the Wlad fight destroyed any aura he once had as a dangerous fighter.

Haye has knockout power in both hands and can stop Vitali Klitschko.