NH Finalist

Correct me if im wrong, but the odds are that the 1/4s on one half of the draw will be,

England vs France
Ireland vs Wales

(This is assuming Samoa and Scotland dont upset the odds and France dont beat NZ)

Which will mean a SF of

England/France vs Ireland/Wales

Which gaurentees a NH finalist,

Also, Aus or SA will be out at the 1/4s.



Bravo Ireland, I dont mind lossing to Ireland in a 1/4 as much as Aus

well let's not get ahead of ourselves but I would fancy Wales against ireland...shame Rees isn't there to take a quick lineout again

mckay1402 wrote:well let's not get ahead of ourselves but I would fancy Wales against ireland...shame Rees isn't there to take a quick lineout again

Well we still have Mike Phillips

I think Wales should worry about Samoa before talking up their chances against an Ireland team which beat Aus.... the 3N champs who have beaten both SA & NZ this year.

Wales' performance against SA was nothing compared to Ireland's against the form team in the world.

Sadly FA, Australia were not showing any form today, thry looked nervous, overawed, and panicky.

Most of them played asindividuals rather than a team.

Where are people getting the impression that we're not worrying about beating Samoa? Are these people aware that none of the people on this forum will be playing?

I am confident that Wales will win their remaining group matches and go on to play Ireland in the Quarters...hell I'm even confident that we'll beat Ireland

mckay1402 wrote:Where are people getting the impression that we're not worrying about beating Samoa? Are these people aware that none of the people on this forum will be playing?

I am confident that Wales will win their remaining group matches and go on to play Ireland in the Quarters...hell I'm even confident that we'll beat Ireland

Likewise, although, I will be happier looking forward if we beat Samoa tommorow.

I think its 50/50 if its Ireland vs Wales,

If Ireland play like they did today and Wales play like they did last week it will be the game of the tournement.

We have two difficult games before we have to worry about the QF's.

Well done Ireland, very good performance and Australia were strangled. One thing though, before my Irish mates get too carried away, Ireland didn't look like scoring a try and will need to get a bit more creative to progress.

Yeah Biltong for me its simply a matter of Oz having no back ups for their stars. Pococks replacement along with the rest of the back row were invisible but can't take it away from Ireland. They really took it to them. Good to see Drew Mitchell back though only on for a few minutes. I'm a real fan of his guts and determination. One of the old school Oz players and a real fighter.

Cooper and Genia were reduced to scraps and Beale tried his heart out- he's a great player alright.

How Ireland slowed Oz down was huge

True Taylorman, Ireland were fantastic at the breakdowns, but it is clear australia can't play their fluid rugby with a referee like bryce Lawrence, he single handedly ensured there was no flow in this match.

And for that you have to give credit to Kidney as well, they maaged to slow everything down, what did surprise me about Australia though, they kept high body positions in the tackles and Ireland had the simple task of making sure Australia didn't get the ball out.

NZ would do well to drop the game against France and thus let France, SA and Aus slug it out on the other side of the draw!

Yer bryce Lawrence killed the game for the Aussies . the irish were only to happy to play the start stop game rather than try and outrun the Wobblies(damn near impossible)

Im hoping the RWC final is reffed by a frenchman personally

fa0019 wrote:Wales' performance against SA was nothing compared to Ireland's against the form team in the world.

Agreed we ought to worry about Samoa first and foremost but what exactly do you base that statement on? Ireland were terrific, maybe or maybe not better than Wales. I personally felt the performances themselves were very similar but to suggest that Wales' performance was "nothing" in comparison is ridiculous. Is that a genuine view you felt the need to express or, as I more strongly suspect, the urge to take a shot at the slightest of opportunities?

"One thing though, before my Irish mates get too carried away, Ireland didn't look like scoring a try and will need to get a bit more creative to progress."

You don't get it do you mate? The object of the game is to score more points than the other team. How you do it it is immaterial to the result. OK now?

If those are the QFs, based on comparative performances and styles of play I'd back Ireland to beat Wales, France to beat England, then France to go through to the final.

Bullsbok wrote:Yer bryce Lawrence killed the game for the Aussies . the irish were only to happy to play the start stop game rather than try and outrun the Wobblies(damn near impossible)

They played to a winning strategy. If the Aussies don't want to be deafened by the ref's whistle in future they ought to invest in some better scrummaging props and generally better strength in depth through the forwards. As today proved, the backs can't easily survive if the forwards are being dominated.

Yes chewed. Was thinking that myself. Oz really are in the poos now. As Biltong says they're now limited by two things. If they get a tough ref they wont get quick ball and they don't have reliable backups for their star players.

Teams know how to slow them down now so they'll need to come up with something new. SA and NZ now look the more likely semi finalists. Ireland look stronger than Wales but not a lot of difference there.

alcoombe wrote:If those are the QFs, based on comparative performances and styles of play I'd back Ireland to beat Wales, France to beat England, then France to go through to the final.

Recently England, France and Ireland have been paper, scissor and stone. England beat France, France beat Ireland and Ireland beat England. It's not 100% accurate (England beat Ireland a few weeks ago, Ireland beat France in 2009 and France beat England in 2010) but for a good few years that generally rule has held. As such I'd back England over France in a one-off game. Based on absolutely nothing but gut feeling, I'd probably back Wales over Ireland.

englandglory4ever wrote:"One thing though, before my Irish mates get too carried away, Ireland didn't look like scoring a try and will need to get a bit more creative to progress."

You don't get it do you mate? The object of the game is to score more points than the other team. How you do it it is immaterial to the result. OK now?

Many thanks, but I don't need a lecture from you on the object of the game. My point is that Ireland will need more creativity in the back line to match their forward effort to progress. Do you always take such sarcastic tone when you post. OK now?

robbo277 wrote:

alcoombe wrote:If those are the QFs, based on comparative performances and styles of play I'd back Ireland to beat Wales, France to beat England, then France to go through to the final.

Recently England, France and Ireland have been paper, scissor and stone. England beat France, France beat Ireland and Ireland beat England. It's not 100% accurate (England beat Ireland a few weeks ago, Ireland beat France in 2009 and France beat England in 2010) but for a good few years that generally rule has held. As such I'd back England over France in a one-off game. Based on absolutely nothing but gut feeling, I'd probably back Wales over Ireland.

Agreed. Not sure why but I feel that if Wales can beat Samoa and Fiji they will be battle hardened enough to do Ireland as well. As long as we can keep Adam fit that is...

Bullsbok wrote:Im hoping the RWC final is reffed by a frenchman personally

After the display Romain Poite showed this morning I bet you are.

Congrats to Ireland, who played a good old fashioned,Irish style game of blood, guts and thunder.

Nice to see that barring any further "upsets" we may well be guaranteed a NH finalist.

As a side note, apparently Bryce Lawrence is the favourite to ref the final if NZ fail to make it. God help us.

People complaining about lack of tries should get a life.... from a neutral standpoint the game had so much drama, so much tension that I couldn't have cared less if tries were scored.

Aus are meant to be the best attacking side in the world but were impotent in attack against a massive wall of green jerseys.
You have to earn RWC victories...even in the pools. It could be argued that Aus took Ireland a little too lightly just as they did ENG in 07... it may have just cost them the RWC also... no team as ever lost a match and then go on to win the same RWC tournament.

The RWC needs victories like today, if its always a Aus-NZ final (albeit there has never been one) I think the world would turn off very quickly.

LondonTiger wrote:Congrats to Ireland, who played a good old fashioned,Irish style game of blood, guts and thunder.

Nice to see that barring any further "upsets" we may well be guaranteed a NH finalist.

As a side note, apparently Bryce Lawrence is the favourite to ref the final if NZ fail to make it. God help us.

I don't think that Lawrence favoured one side or the other, but he did miss a lot today.

I'd normally agree that I think England have the hoodoo over France (4 wins from the last 5 matches), but I continue to be worried by our breakdown performance, and I've got a feeling that when they get to the knockout stage the French team (principally the large number of high quality players whose last WC this will be) are going to revolt against ML and just play for themselves, which is the sort of inclined French side that can be near unbeatable.

I think that Irish forward performance would edge the Welsh one we saw the other day. Both very good, but I think the extra wiliness, experience and tactics of the Irish pack would take it. Not to mention that Wales have a pool that will sap them more physically and is more likely to result in a few knocks.

alcoombe wrote:I think that Irish forward performance would edge the Welsh one we saw the other day. Both very good, but I think the extra wiliness, experience and tactics of the Irish pack would take it. Not to mention that Wales have a pool that will sap them more physically and is more likely to result in a few knocks.

More physically sapping or better preparing for the later rounds, it depends on which way round you choose to translate it. All I know is Wales have it all to do in the group first and foremost. Since when aren't the QF's a tough draw for all involved?

alcoombe wrote:.

I think that Irish forward performance would edge the Welsh one we saw the other day. Both very good, but I think the extra wiliness, experience and tactics of the Irish pack would take it. Not to mention that Wales have a pool that will sap them more physically and is more likely to result in a few knocks.

Ireland won today due to dominating the breakdown and slowing down Aus ball, they wont have the same freedom against the Welsh pack,

Ireland and Wales play in a similar way and the forwards pretty much cancel out,

Whoever wants it more and suffers the least injuries will win if its a Ireland v Wales QF.

An England v Ireland/Wales semi would be great.

EnglishReign wrote:An England v Ireland/Wales semi would be great.

hold on the england thing requires 2 things, to beat scotland and to beat france, now beating an off form scottish team may not be too bad but never dismiss the french and likewise, ireland COULD still lose to italy and wales COULD lose to samoa. (i hope neither could does happen but too early to talk about qf)

I always dismiss France and always win.

Italy are still a big game, but we have a better fixture list than them now. Ireland will have to get more creative though as we won't be able to dominate other teams like we did today. Warburton was immense against south africa and could pose problems. If Ireland were to make it to the semi's I think we would stand a much better chance against England than Wales, we can't seem to beat France

Rocky wrote:If Ireland were to make it to the semi's I think we would stand a much better chance against England than Wales, we can't seem to beat France

Umm, you might want to look at the last game Wales played against England and the last game Ireland played against England *cough*

**England than France, whoops, still a little excited after earlier. If we make it to the semi's I don't think our last warm up game will matter for anything. Remember in the last world cup when South Africa put about 40 points past England in the group games, then how tight the final was? I'm hoping that we turned a corner today, and that the terrible performances in the warm ups are behind us, maybe i'm being over optimistic though.

Time will tell, I'm not trying to do Wales down, that was an excellent performance from them the other day, I just feel that the extra experience of the Irish 2nd & back rows coupled with Kidney's usually better tactical preperation would see them edge it with nous at key moments on the day. In big day matches the older, wiser heads usually win out.

Could well be Ireland vs Samoa in the q/f. We shall see.

I think the All Blacks may now be getting slightly worried after this result as they are likely to have either South Africa or Australia as semi-final opponents.

Assume,NOTHING,Ireland have to get past Italy not a given,France may well beat NZ.Indeed it would make sense for the All Blacks to rest key players ,and go for the soft side of the draw.
SA v Aus tralia one goes out,France take out England or vice versa.
All Blacks mop up Ireland ,Scotland,Wales.Then it`s last man standing.
Don`t think it will Happen ,all Blacks will be the A side or as many who are fit.France very well could win they would be doing the All Blacks a favour,
BUT Aus with Pocock and Moore back won`t be easy for ANY team,BUT
if you take there form over last 2 years NOT the 3Ns where no one but them were interested.They have`nt exactly been consistent.

"Indeed it would make sense for the All Blacks to rest key players ,and go for the soft side of the draw."

You are having a laugh?

Mr Thunder wrote:Could well be Ireland vs Samoa in the q/f. We shall see.

I think the All Blacks may now be getting slightly worried after this result as they are likely to have either South Africa or Australia as semi-final opponents.

Well, its better than SA in the Semi final and Australia in the final - NZ will be very relieved that one of SA or Aus will be knocked out before they meet.

Artful_Dodger wrote:"Indeed it would make sense for the All Blacks to rest key players ,and go for the soft side of the draw."

You are having a laugh?

I don't think any team looks to throw a game, especially in the situation mentioned above. SA won by a solitary point last week, today Australia lost. I am sure that there will be no easy games in the Quarters and all teams that qualify will deserve to be there.

There's no point trying to win it if you're worried about who you'll play

wales606 wrote:

Mr Thunder wrote:Could well be Ireland vs Samoa in the q/f. We shall see.

I think the All Blacks may now be getting slightly worried after this result as they are likely to have either South Africa or Australia as semi-final opponents.

Well, its better than SA in the Semi final and Australia in the final - NZ will be very relieved that one of SA or Aus will be knocked out before they meet.

Agreed Thunder-if anything this has made the AB's overall job of winning the cup easier as, assuming they beat France, they would only have to beat one 3N side.

I would have real worries about how we turn up for the italy game - let alone wales in any potential QF. Ireland definitely have a tendency to lose focus in those kind of games where they're expected to play a bit more open and running. And God forbid they start calling us strong favourites !!

But sorry, contrary to the nonsense in this thread, Ireland-Wales is a 50-50 game only if you're wearing Welsh rose-tinted glasses. In our 13 games since 2000, Ireland have won 10 and the last one was (as we all know) was a Wales victory (at home) by virtue of a clearly illegal play (not that that was the Welsh players fault). Sure, on the day, Wales could quite easily put in a performance to topple Ireland and Ireland could put in a performance to throw it away all on their own... But if both teams play their best, then Ireland should win.

So I would say a Wales QF would be 55-45 for Ireland.

It's removed one less serious obstacle from NZ's path, but it's also probably given a NH side a smidgen more of a chance. I wouldn't have backed any NH side to beat NZ (we don't have the right sort of game), but the better of SA-Aus might do it before the final and a NH side has more chance of beating one of those.

France to win the WC.

Not a lot of talk about england and they will figure somewhere given the competitiveness of the NH sides.
NZ could justifiably drop to France and gain the non sh side of the draw.
Teams have done it to us in the past- scotland in 2007 playing their seconds to make fot a better knockout chance.. So dropping a match wouldnt be setting a precedent.
But its not in our make up to lose a test deliberately so that wont happen. Plus we'll want a tough match before knockout.
SA now look the team to beat unless key injuries hit. And they still have to play samoa.

Taylorman wrote:Not a lot of talk about england and they will figure somewhere given the competitiveness of the NH sides.
NZ could justifiably drop to France and gain the non sh side of the draw.
Teams have done it to us in the past- scotland in 2007 playing their seconds to make fot a better knockout chance.. So dropping a match wouldnt be setting a precedent.
But its not in our make up to lose a test deliberately so that wont happen. Plus we'll want a tough match before knockout.
SA now look the team to beat unless key injuries hit. And they still have to play samoa.

don't do that Taylorman, we have been seen as the most vulnerable Tri nations team since the start of the RWC, and nothing has yet suggested we are the team to beat, sure we have shown progress, but that is all.

biltongbek wrote: don't do that Taylorman, we have been seen as the most vulnerable Tri nations team since the start of the RWC, and nothing has yet suggested we are the team to beat, sure we have shown progress, but that is all.

that's right... the Saffers look awesome. unbeatable. let's all talk about the saffers! they're the only team in green worth talking about. everybody keep looking over there.

good luck with that biltongbek...

Here here!.

Go Bokke...! The Fiji win was clinical I have to say. AB's beat them similarly a while ago but this is one Fiji wanted and fought for...and were put to the sword by a ruthless World Cup defending champion team...

Sound good? Unfortunately its true Biltong... you were right all along and if SA keep this up they could win it- mind you Oz havnt done you a favour meeting you one match earlier in all likelihood.

I suppose as Bullsbok I think said it- SA and Oz hammer the daylights out of each other in the quarter- with stretchers everywhere, we can pick up the pieces the next week!

Just kidding... I'm just glad nothing major has happened this tournament yet other than good rugby. The train debacle last week didn't help but other than that things look to be going well so far.

Ran into a large group of South Africans during the week. Really good bunch and they were enjoying themselves.

offload wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:"One thing though, before my Irish mates get too carried away, Ireland didn't look like scoring a try and will need to get a bit more creative to progress."

You don't get it do you mate? The object of the game is to score more points than the other team. How you do it it is immaterial to the result. OK now?

Many thanks, but I don't need a lecture from you on the object of the game. My point is that Ireland will need more creativity in the back line to match their forward effort to progress. Do you always take such sarcastic tone when you post. OK now?

Yeah! What you said and what I said the first time.