England 41 - 10 Georgia

First topic message reminder :

"England ran six tries past Georgia for a 41-10 win, but were made to work overtime for their victory in Dunedin on Sunday.

Whilst England bagged maximum points against the brave Georgians, who never gave up until the final whistle, Martin Johnson will know there's still plenty of work ahead in what was another unconvincing display by his side." PR


Georgia:

Gigauri, Machkhaneli, Kacharava, Zibzibadze, Todua, Kvirikashvili, Abuseridze, Khinchagashvili, Bregvadze, Kubriashvili, Zedginidze, Maisuradze, Sutiashvili, Gorgodze, Basilaia.

Replacements: Giorgadze, Zirakashvili, Datunashvili, Chkhaidze, Samkharadze, Berishvili, Khmaladze.



England:

Foden, Ashton, Tuilagi, Hape, Armitage, Flood, Youngs, Stevens, Hartley, Cole, Shaw, Palmer, Wood, Moody, Haskell.

Replacements: Thompson, Corbisiero, Croft, Deacon, Simpson, Wilkinson, Banahan.

England looked a lot more composed today. This group is not the easy group that some people think it is, to come out of this group you will have to play just as well as teams in the other groups.

perand25 wrote:Not too bad in the end ,just got to stop the front row from giving away so many penalties

Can we end world hunger while we're at it?

GangGreen wrote:i can see england finally start to cut lose in final 15

You would have thought so.

Amazing Georgian effort. Accolades have to go to them.


What can England take from this?

Commentators think that the game is full of positives.

Personally I am not so sure.


Georgia had the upper hand up front far too much for a team ranked 12 places below them who have never beaten a top 15 team.

England's backline were excellent but England continued to go route one with the forwards completely negating their huge pace and skill advantage outside.

A better referee than Kaplan would have put at least two England players in the bin in the first half. He hardly reacted to a very cynical defence by England.

Good win in the end. Look decent with ball in hand, just need to stop with the indiscipline so that we actually have the ball!

faraway wrote:Stuart Barnes: England performance is not as good as Ireland's last night, all the glory will go to Georgia, yeah yeah they got the 5 points but their performance wasn't good....

so England needed to perform and NOT get 5 points!!!!!!!

Barnes really is a c*ck

eirebilly

I hope your having a laugh, are you suggesting that performances to beat NZ, SA and OZ are at the same level as playing Scotland and Georgia???!!!

It is the group every team wanted!!!

I didn't think the English starting 15 were bad, they just need to get the penalty count low

You don't need to beat NZ, SA and Oz to get out of the group. You need to beat Samoa, Italy and Canada

Barnes is smack on there perand, what is wrong with what he said, Ireland played a better team, and their pack was dominant, England played a battling Georgia side who has played an extra game!! How do those games compare???

thebluesmancometh wrote:eirebilly

I hope your having a laugh, are you suggesting that performances to beat NZ, SA and OZ are at the same level as playing Scotland and Georgia???!!!

It is the group every team wanted!!!

Yeah you are right, the group is urine easy and we are Poopie. Well done.

Ye you have to beat those teams, which are more than on par with the likes of Argentina, and Fiji a better side than Georgia, and you have to do it with a game against one of the big teams, which makes it harder as you'd have lost one and the nerves will be higher as it's all or nothing!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Barnes is smack on there perand, what is wrong with what he said, Ireland played a better team, and their pack was dominant, England played a battling Georgia side who has played an extra game!! How do those games compare???

Barnes is a co#k though

theres been a fair few dubious ref decisions again against england today. like the last hand in a ruck, yet the replay showed nobody hand there hand in.

thebluesmancometh wrote:eirebilly

I hope your having a laugh, are you suggesting that performances to beat NZ, SA and OZ are at the same level as playing Scotland and Georgia???!!!

It is the group every team wanted!!!

Nobody had to beat NZ, SA or OZ to get out of their groups though did they.
The point is that Wales and England and Scotland had tough groups because they had 3 sides in who had a good chance of qualification and a 4th side capable of giving tough games.
Ireland couldve lost to Australia and still strolled through their group.

Cumbrian

You need to get off your horse mate, I didn't have a go at England I merely stated they have the easiest group in the tournament, they avoid the top 4 teams in the world and draw Argentina and Scotland, in the right order, all other groups are tougher!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:eirebilly

I hope your having a laugh, are you suggesting that performances to beat NZ, SA and OZ are at the same level as playing Scotland and Georgia???!!!

It is the group every team wanted!!!

I am not having a laugh at all. Argentina is a very tought team to beat as is Scotland. Georgia are also very physical. I am just saying that its not the really easy group that people are making it out to be.

England's group is the easiest to top but also one of the easiest to go out in. I'd say both Argentina and Scotland are better than Samoa (although that's a matter of opinion and Samoa are much improved).

peter

When you play a 3N team it takes a lot out of you win or lose, plus playing one first up means EVERY GAME AFTER THAT IS A MUST WIN!

When you have giants like Scotland and Argentina it makes the whole tournament a different prospect, allowing to play different half back combos for example, resting players and giving others an opportunity.

If we vote I guarentee you every team would pick Englands group 10 times out of 10, wether your looking at just attempting to qualify as you lot are eluding to, or trying to win the world cup!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Ye you have to beat those teams, which are more than on par with the likes of Argentina, and Fiji a better side than Georgia, and you have to do it with a game against one of the big teams, which makes it harder as you'd have lost one and the nerves will be higher as it's all or nothing!!!

You're trying too hard. Samoa, Italy and Canada (the last one particularly baffling) on par with Argentina?

thebluesmancometh wrote:Cumbrian

You need to get off your horse mate, I didn't have a go at England I merely stated they have the easiest group in the tournament, they avoid the top 4 teams in the world and draw Argentina and Scotland, in the right order, all other groups are tougher!!!

I'm not on a horse, I'm on my couch

Perhaps, I would be on my 'horse' because as soon as England win you guys come on here to remind us how easy our group is.

Maybe our group isn't as difficult as some, but that doesn't make it easy. The way some of you guys go on we've got the easiest group there's ever been. Whereas I've been listening to people build Samoa up to be some kind of rugby playing God's for weeks. Wales' group is harder, but it's not THAT much harder.

Will the Georgian number 18 get cited for "tackling" Ashton after he scored his try. If Lawes gets two weeks on the sidelines then the Georgian player should get at least the same. Something tells me the incident won't get the same publicity though.

Hammer

Thats a little one eyed, Samoa have beaten Australia recently, what were Scotlands and Argentinas last attempts at that, I'd put Samoa and Fiji somewhere on par with both of those teams, thats not including THE REIGNING WORLD CHAMPS!

How can you possibly beleive Englands group is the easiest to lose, 2 given results and 2 hearty challengers, i'd switch England with Italy and expect Italy to qualify.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Hammer

Thats a little one eyed, Samoa have beaten Australia recently, what were Scotlands and Argentinas last attempts at that, I'd put Samoa and Fiji somewhere on par with both of those teams, thats not including THE REIGNING WORLD CHAMPS!

How can you possibly beleive Englands group is the easiest to lose, 2 given results and 2 hearty challengers, i'd switch England with Italy and expect Italy to qualify.

Who cares? Eng won, Wales won. Let's just chill out a bit, yeah?

thebluesmancometh wrote:Barnes is smack on there perand, what is wrong with what he said, Ireland played a better team, and their pack was dominant, England played a battling Georgia side who has played an extra game!! How do those games compare???

yes the Georgian were superb, yes the English looked shocked by the Georgian physicality but what irritated me was the fact that he completely dismissed England bonus point win, as if that would NOT effect the group's standing at all. I think the English are getting better every match and it would be nice for once if Barnes gave some credit to the English side, some players were really good but he moaned about every single mistake they did and said nothing about Georgian mistakes.

I know it's great to have a good performance but it's better to have bonus point win, after all that's what will get you out of the group.

Cumbrian

I havn't slated England, I havn't said it was an easy group, there are none at this level, but I am responding to comments that it's the toughest, from I'm guessing English fans trying to justify their performances so far.

Samoa aren't great, they are physical and now organised, and they have beaten the tri nations champs in their warm up, that earns them respect in my eyes!

Robbo

The Georgian 18 hasn't dropped his knees into someones back while in touch after play has stopped, it was a little silly you must agree, but he was so wound up, a few touch and go 'late' shots he wasn't in total control. How long is he out for, you're gonna need him excellent player, everyone wants a Lawes type!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Hammer

Thats a little one eyed, Samoa have beaten Australia recently, what were Scotlands and Argentinas last attempts at that, I'd put Samoa and Fiji somewhere on par with both of those teams, thats not including THE REIGNING WORLD CHAMPS!

How can you possibly beleive Englands group is the easiest to lose, 2 given results and 2 hearty challengers, i'd switch England with Italy and expect Italy to qualify.

You got out of bed too early if youre trying to win an argument by saying Italy are better than Scotland and Argentina
Bear in mind that England were a top seed so they couldnt have got a Tri nations side in their group....but that means they are mor likely to get one in the quarters.
Noone would debate that Wales are in the all round strongest group in the tournamnet, but to pretend that France having Tonga as their bigest challenger or Ireland having Italy is tougher to qualify against than Scotland is silly.

Sorry is this all about England? I was talking in general. Stop being so anglo-centric, do you work for ITV

To look how easy a group is you should immediately discount the top team because 2nd place will go through. Scotland have beat Australia AND South Africa reasonably recently. Argentina have battered France. I'm not sure how it's one-eyed, Scotland and Argentina are both ahead of Samoa in the rankings (based on results). As I said it's debatable as to who's best but in terms of getting out of the group there's not much between them.

The only reason Wales' group is considered the group of death is because Wales have a habit of losing to PI teams in World Cups. England had a very similar group 4 years ago and no-one suggested it was a group of death.

faraway

You don't have tpo preach to me about the win over performance, we were awesome V SA for 1 point and awfull V samoa for 4, I agree 5 points is 5 points, especially considering all the changes made. But anything wouldve been better than the argy performance so it's hard to argue that England are getting better, they've gone from Average to ok, job done, against much weaker opposition.

faraway wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Barnes is smack on there perand, what is wrong with what he said, Ireland played a better team, and their pack was dominant, England played a battling Georgia side who has played an extra game!! How do those games compare???

yes the Georgian were superb, yes the English looked shocked by the Georgian physicality but what irritated me was the fact that he completely dismissed England bonus point win, as if that would NOT effect the group's standing at all. I think the English are getting better every match and it would be nice for once if Barnes gave some credit to the English side, some players were really good but he moaned about every single mistake they did and said nothing about Georgian mistakes.

I know it's great to have a good performance but it's better to have bonus point win, after all that's what will get you out of the group.

England need to be able to realise quickly where to play a team. In this game they were not winning up front, they were struggling, but when the ball went wide the backs were dominant.

For England to do well in this world cup they have to play intelligently.

Georgia were very good 1 to 10 but poor outside. England were quality outwide and should ave looked to exploit that far more than they did.

A good bonus point result is what England wanted, that is what they got, but all the wrongs of their last six or seven games have not been put right yet..!

Johnson has become a canny and intelligent coach during his tenure and I am sure the lads will be given a tough time over the next week in training. They will come out a better team.

I think some of the England players are a bit retarded (given some of the penalties) so not sure if they can change tactics mid game

thebluesmancometh wrote:Cumbrian

I havn't slated England, I havn't said it was an easy group, there are none at this level, but I am responding to comments that it's the toughest, from I'm guessing English fans trying to justify their performances so far.

Samoa aren't great, they are physical and now organised, and they have beaten the tri nations champs in their warm up, that earns them respect in my eyes!

Robbo

The Georgian 18 hasn't dropped his knees into someones back while in touch after play has stopped, it was a little silly you must agree, but he was so wound up, a few touch and go 'late' shots he wasn't in total control. How long is he out for, you're gonna need him excellent player, everyone wants a Lawes type!

You're bearing the brunt for the crap I've had to swallow all week about our group. Look at it from my point of view. I've just watched my team fight their way to a tough and deserved victory and almost before the final whistle is blown people are devaluing it. It pisses me off.

As for excuses about the performances, we've started slowly is all. They'll get stronger as the tournament goes on, you can already see signs of it.

I have respect Samoa too, they're a good team, but some people really have been over-egging the pudding with them.

I'm not comparing Wale sgroup to Englands, I'm comparing all groups, If your looking to win the world cup topping your group is a priority, so you have to beat everyone, including the top seed, plus how can you discount the top seed unless you don't have to play them, If we discount them then Argentina should be discounted also? So Scotland is a tougher opposition than say Italy, Samoa, Tonga, I wouldn't, then you go further down and even considering fixture lists, that was Georgias third game and Englands second!

The fact is playing a top seed team doesn't just take more effort from your first team but if lost means every other game is a must win just to qualify, it's tougher playing 3 finals in a row than being comfortable and rotating your squad!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Barnes is smack on there perand, what is wrong with what he said, Ireland played a better team, and their pack was dominant, England played a battling Georgia side who has played an extra game!! How do those games compare???

I meant just in general. He is a c*ck for comparing the games though as there was no comparison to be made

thebluesmancometh wrote:faraway

You don't have tpo preach to me about the win over performance, we were awesome V SA for 1 point and awfull V samoa for 4, I agree 5 points is 5 points, especially considering all the changes made. But anything wouldve been better than the argy performance so it's hard to argue that England are getting better, they've gone from Average to ok, job done, against much weaker opposition.

Actually, i just wanted to point out that Stuart Barnes is a biased a**

thebluesmancometh wrote:I'm not comparing Wale sgroup to Englands, I'm comparing all groups, If your looking to win the world cup topping your group is a priority, so you have to beat everyone, including the top seed, plus how can you discount the top seed unless you don't have to play them, If we discount them then Argentina should be discounted also? So Scotland is a tougher opposition than say Italy, Samoa, Tonga, I wouldn't, then you go further down and even considering fixture lists, that was Georgias third game and Englands second!

The fact is playing a top seed team doesn't just take more effort from your first team but if lost means every other game is a must win just to qualify, it's tougher playing 3 finals in a row than being comfortable and rotating your squad!

No it wasn't. It was their second game. It was just 4 days ago instead of 8 (similar to Samoa). I'd say Scotland are better than Italy, Samoa and Tonga. I'd say Argentina are better than Italy, Samoa and Tongo (or England if you take Argentina as top seed).

Also I'd say getting out of your group is priority. Topping it is a bonus.

And you said England's group is the easiest.

Can we all just agree that , mostly, Barnes is a c0rk

Gatts wrote:Can we all just agree that , mostly, Barnes is a c0rk

+1

Probably the only thing everyone on here would agree to.

PSb - Argentina are top seeds in England's pool. They were the 4th ranked team in the world when the pools were drawn. England were very lucky NOT to draw NZ, SA or Aus. A 1 in 4 chance of avoiding them and we did avoid them.

I definitely would not have wanted Wales' pool.

Gatts wrote:Can we all just agree that , mostly, Barnes is a c0rk

I'd disagree... 'C*ck' doesn't do him justice, he is a complete dong.

Gatts wrote:Can we all just agree that , mostly, Barnes is a c0rk

We call him Thrush , as hes an irritating ****

Well done England on another win. Not a great performance but thats a tough old game to get out of the way.

I didn't see the whole game but I was very impressed with Georgians. They carried very strongly and showed excellent handling skills. They look like they could hold their own in the 6N if they were given the chance.

Looks like Shaw and Thompson played well for England.

thebluesmancometh wrote:If your looking to win the world cup topping your group is a priority

Not necessarily, Wales & France will be better off for not topping their group. Some people have even suggested (though it would never happen) that SA & NZ try to finish second for easier knock out games.

niwatts wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:If your looking to win the world cup topping your group is a priority

Not necessarily, Wales & France will be better off for not topping their group. Some people have even suggested (though it would never happen) that SA & NZ try to finish second for easier knock out games.

I don't think it makes much difference.

By the looks of the tournament all of the quarterfinalists will be good teams and tough to beat.

thebluesmancometh wrote:I'm not comparing Wale sgroup to Englands, I'm comparing all groups, If your looking to win the world cup topping your group is a priority, so you have to beat everyone, including the top seed, plus how can you discount the top seed unless you don't have to play them, If we discount them then Argentina should be discounted also? So Scotland is a tougher opposition than say Italy, Samoa, Tonga, I wouldn't, then you go further down and even considering fixture lists, that was Georgias third game and Englands second!

The fact is playing a top seed team doesn't just take more effort from your first team but if lost means every other game is a must win just to qualify, it's tougher playing 3 finals in a row than being comfortable and rotating your squad!

Youre worng on pretty muchh every count.

England had a much asier group last tme. They were abysmal in all their games, got hamered by SA, but stll qualified reasonably comfortably.
They then went on to reach the finalandonly didnt win the worldcup because the tMO did his job properly and that try wouldnt have ben worth 11 points anyway.

Besuides I dont think anyone seriously expcts England to win the wc this time, group qualification is the priority.

Wales could lose two games in their pool and qualify. They dont have to win every game, and again Im not debating that they have a toughr group anyway. But England would be happier in Irelands group where theyd be facing teams who have never beaten them and a side they have beaten on the last two occassions, most recently a one sided spanking.

some stats:

England made more offloads than any other team at the WC in this match. To me, it looked like we were sometimes trying a bit too hard to force them, Banahan especially needs to look before off-loading. However it's a positive sign that England are trying to keep the game moving.

England conceded 11 penalties in the first half, just three in the second. Same story as against Argentian last week. Is it that it takes England that long to react to the ref? Do they need to have a man sin-binned before they start cutting it out? Or do they only wake up after a half-time "chat" from MJ?

Simon Shaw led the tackle count in this match with 18 tackles. Impressive stuff from a 38 year-old. Actually thought Shaw was excellent today...

Will the Georgian player who led with the knees on Ashtons last try be cited?

It does make a diff.

If NZ top group they play Arg/Scot, Fr to play Eng
If SA top group they now play Aus...expect them to throw Samoa game, come 2nd and play Ireland

Probably not. I imagine they'll think it'll teach him not to swan dive. Will Tuilagi get cited for his dangerous tackle? The guy could have bruised his bum when he landed on it.

Gatts, if you want to win it you need to be able to anyone and everyone.

HammerofThunor wrote:Probably not. I imagine they'll think it'll teach him not to swan dive. Will Tuilagi get cited for his dangerous tackle? The guy could have bruised his bum when he landed on it.

Gatts, if you want to win it you need to be able to anyone and everyone.

yes of course i know but nevertheless, professional era, lots of back room boy will be working out every permutation. I am categorically not suggesting anyone will throw a game

Ashton isn't the only player so far in the RWC to do the swan dive is it only wrong if an English player does it?