ROG asked to delay retirement plans

From RTÉ:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/worldcup/2011/0918/ireland_ogara.html


Ireland will seek to persuade Ronan O'Gara to shelve any retirement plans after the fly-half hinted the World Cup will be his Test swansong. An emotional O'Gara indicated in the aftermath of yesterday's magnificent 15-6 victory over Australia that his 11-year international career was almost over.

"It's massive, this is it for us. I'm done with Ireland in a few weeks," he told RTÉ Sport. "I've had a great time in this jersey but I want this to be the biggest time. It's a great team, a great bunch of lads and it means a lot to us."

Team manager Paul McNaughton revealed an effort would be made to convince O'Gara, who kicked two crucial penalties at Eden Park, to continue playing for Ireland. "Ronan hasn't talked formally to us about it. There's no doubt he still has something to offer the team after the World Cup," said McNaughton.

"He's contracted for the next couple of years. Undoubtedly (coach) Declan Kidney and the management will be encouraging him to stay on. "He's a very, very important part of the set-up here."

O'Gara has kicked 1,039 points for Ireland during his 113-cap career, but has slipped to second place in the fly-half pecking order behind Jonathan Sexton. The 34-year-old, who made his debut in 2000 and has been on three Lions tours, could yet reclaim the number 10 jersey given Sexton's unconvincing performances against the USA and Australia so far this month.

What do fans think? Should he carry on for a little while yet? My personal view is,unless he no longer enjoys playing or isn't fit to do so, I think he could continue for another year with Ireland.

I think he could easily play on for another year but if thats his decision we should respect it. If it is his decision, Keatley needs to be first choice at Munster though.

I kind of suspected as much from him to be honest. Going out after a big tournement is perfect. He is a great player and could probably play 1 or 2 seasons but if he chooses to stop then i think that his decision should be respected.

Bet that'll pash Keatley off.

He still has a lot to offer but I'm not surprised. He was one of the most influential Irish players of the last 5/6 years.

I'm sure that if he insisted on retiring the Irish camp would respect his decision.

Do you think they could persuade him otherwise?
Who will replace him internationally with Sexton if he does retire?

Keatley or humphreis,probably Keatley.

Thom - would Humphries be a better choice at the moment? Just because of his experience with Ulster - playing in Europe especially. I'm sure Keatley will come good once he's been with Munster a while though.

He surely won't be the only one hanging up his international boots.

Part of me hopes he goes ... it used to be said that it was harder to get off the Ireland team than to get on to it (this was back in the 60s and 70s when auld warriors stayed on way best their best before date.

Ireland need to continue the process of bringing in younger players as Kidney has been doing over the last few years so that we don't suddenly find ourselves looking at a whole team full of newbies. If the older players go in October, we have a sound nucleus of younger players (mid to late 20s) who now have the experience to take over the helm and lead the next crop on to further international success (what ever that may be).

The time will come when we will be reminiscing with youngsters about ROG and his kicks and giving one of them a cuff around his ear if he dares to have the temerity to ask

Was he REALLY that good?

Yes, lad, he really was that good and this guy playing now isn't worthy of cleaning his boots ...

Thomond wrote:Keatley or humphreis,probably Keatley.

Just out of interest, and I'm feeling mischevious, would you have said that if he was still at Connacht?

I would prefer Keatley,Humpheys has the tendency to do something insane and he is a poor tackler.

Kia - harder to get off the team than on it?! That's true for some - Mr Hayes and Mr Wallace!

I don't think he will be the only one giving up his green shirt after the RWC, I wonder if BOD will also be "persuaded" to hang on a bit longer. He's only 31/32 whereas Wally and ROG are 34/35...

Ok, heres the question- should Irish players who have retired from internationals count against a provinces NIQ quota?

Non Irish-qualified means not eligible for the national side. If a player rules himself out of international selection, he is no longer available for international honours and his continuing selection at provincial level weakens us in the exact same way a foreign player taking up a position in the team does. Someone who could play for the national side isn't getting gametime.

If ROG retires and we have Sexton, Keatley and Humphreys all first choice at their provinces it'll be a blow but we'll recover as Keatley gets the top level experience he needs to have a shot at this level. If ROG retires but is still first choice for Munster, we have a much bigger problem.

Same thing at Ulster if Paddy Wallace was to retire. We have Luke Marshall and Nevin Spence kicking around and Ireland desperately need new blood in the centres. If Wallace isn't an international after the RWC we'll struggle to justify selecting him.

What we should do, creative thinking, is have retired internationals sign for Connacht,

I don't think counting them as NIQ's would do any good Notch, besides there are a reasonable number of players who have ruled themselves out of international rugby in the past, only to come back to it.

I think O'Gara should keep going for 2 more seasons, by then someone like Keatley or even Jackson might be ready to play second fiddle to Sexton.

There was a time Cari, when Irish props would turn up with their grandchildren watching from the stands - I exagerrate, but you get my point. It was embarrassing.

hayes's srummaging was weak - but he was peerless in line-out lifting; Wally was an out-and-out 7 and quite simply the best in Ireland - and still capable of playing at international level despite his advancing years.

I wouldn't be surprised if BOD, D'Arcy, POC and DOC for starters all hung up their boots. Realistically none of them will figure in 2015; none will figure in 2013 Lions tour.

It will be sad to see them go, but like our friend Gibson (and I saw him play) we will just have to say "Thanks for the memories".

Paul McNaughton is right. These players will still have a lot to offer the team. We were surprised that The Bull was in the squad during the summer, but I am sure DK told him - You aren't going to NZ but we need your experience and particularly your expertise in the line-out. This is one thing which I think Kidney has really done for the team. Like Fla handing out the shirts for yesterday's game. Everyone who is in the squad has a role to play and it is important, even if it is not on the pitch. And I believe the players have bopught into this. When DK was appointed, consensus was that he was a very good man-manager, a facilitator and the transition in the squad has been proof of this.

I could see Paul going to the Lions tour,he will be 34/35 that's not too bad.

Interesting question Notch because you are right retired IQ players are retricting the number of available players for Ireland.

I'm surprised that ROG has come out with this now. It's a distraction we don't need during the tournament.

I think ROG is playing as well as ever and could play another season or two but at the end of the day we need to build towards the next WC so it is better for the side that we start bringing in younger players like Keatley.

If ROG doesn't have the motivation to continue without the carrot of another WC or Lions tour to build towards then fair enough but for the sake of the side I'd like to see him carry on for another season as we see how Keatley and Paddy Jackson etc. develop.

Kia - yeah it was good to see Fla there, and the others who weren't picked to play in the match. I guess it perpetuates the team bond.

I don't think Wally will retire yet - and God willing if his knee gets better - he won't need to. He's been brilliant. I for one will be gutted if he has to give up sooner because of injury.

If he is forced to retire, I just hope we see more of him doing punditry like his brother on telly

That's an intersting question Notch and answering that they should count as NIQs would have some interesting consequences.

I think the rise (and rise) of Conor Murray might be a template. I watched Murray in one of his very early senior games for Munster. Can't rememeber if it was his first. he had ROG beside him. Now Murray has since said how much he, as a boy, admired ROG and now he was playing beside him ...

The thing that really impressed me that day was seeing ROG look after him, mentoring him - not telling him what to do, just encouraging him, telling him it was alright when Murray got it wrong, saying well done when M got it right. Little things like that which help a young inexperienced player's confidence.

I think that that is the way we will have to use some of these retired players. Yes maybe ask some of them to go to Connacht (it's not exactly hell anymore, is it?) and use their experience to bring on the new players.

Thats how we use NIQ players in this country. Guys like Johann Muller, BJ Botha, Rocky Elsom and Felipe Contepomi have played that role. But the number of those guy we can have is still restricted.

I was surprised by this. Surely he's on a very well paid contract, which was offered under the presumption that he'd be available for Ireland? I dunno. He's given so much to Irish rugby we can't begrudge him his wish to retire if he wants to.

In his interview he was very emotional. I'd say not getting selected to start stung him. Not that he holds anything against Sexton or anything. I just think at 34 he's realizing his career is coming to and end. The fact that he mentioned his wife and kid in the interview makes me think he was feeling some very personal emotions after the game as well as feeling the high of victory.

Maybe he prematurely blurted that out even though he hasn't fully thought it through or discussed it with anyone yet.

Only he knows if his heart is still in it he is not the sort of player that will be happy playing second fiddle to anybody.

He simply may feel his standards starting to drop, no Irish fan would want people like Bod, Poc, Rog and the others to retire but you do sense that if Ireland beat Wales (or whoever) in the Quarters, then beat England / France in the semi then many of these players may want to finish on a high.
The England 2003 team did something similar when they were sucessful.

As for Rog he isn't the biggest bloke, he has played for Ireland since 2000 and has 110+ caps, his body needs to last him till he is 80+ years old, not 35, 36 till the end of his playing career. There is only so much a person can take and maybe rog feels he is at that limit.

Bod is another I don;t expect to be around much longer, you rarely see backs playing into their mid 30's at the highest level. He has played for Ireland since 1999 and has 110+ caps too, he has had a lot of injuries and maybe he may decide to call it quits, it's not always about age but the body also.

People like Scott Quinell, Neil Jenkins, and Scott Gibbs all retired at 31 after long international careers because their bodies were knackered, and they played when the game was amateur for the most part. So imagine how modern players have to cope with the size players are today!

BOD and POC will want to go to the lions in 2013 imo and BOD has said so himself so they can go on as for ROG Sexton could still use him as a help with kicking. He could well get a player/coach role with Munster for a season or two. He will be missed though.

AlynDavies wrote:He simply may feel his standards starting to drop, no Irish fan would want people like Bod, Poc, Rog and the others to retire but you do sense that if Ireland beat Wales (or whoever) in the Quarters, then beat England / France in the semi then many of these players may want to finish on a high.
The England 2003 team did something similar when they were sucessful.

As for Rog he isn't the biggest bloke, he has played for Ireland since 2000 and has 110+ caps, his body needs to last him till he is 80+ years old, not 35, 36 till the end of his playing career. There is only so much a person can take and maybe rog feels he is at that limit.

Bod is another I don;t expect to be around much longer, you rarely see backs playing into their mid 30's at the highest level. He has played for Ireland since 1999 and has 110+ caps too, he has had a lot of injuries and maybe he may decide to call it quits, it's not always about age but the body also.

People like Scott Quinell, Neil Jenkins, and Scott Gibbs all retired at 31 after long international careers because their bodies were knackered, and they played when the game was amateur for the most part. So imagine how modern players have to cope with the size players are today!

He might wish to go out on a high while still in the mix and not discarded (thinking Nugget) and even though they just won a grand Slam I think this RWC might be the pinnacle of achievement for Ireland

I must be a seer.

As I in effect asked the same question an hour earlier than this OP.

[edit : That reads altogether wrongly.

What I meant to say that I understand entirely the reason why Ireland would want to extend ROG's career. They are in exactly the same position as England with Jonny and Flood]

I really hope he hangs on just a bit longer. As Kia said, having such an experienced player alongside the youngsters is so good.

I remember Ruan Pienaar running himself nearly into the ground to shepherd Paddy Jackson when he had to start against Glasgow last season.

Couldn't begrudge him his decision though if it's really what he wants.

I think TOG should retire but not immediatly after the RWC.
I think keatley (not IHump) should be brought into the 6n extended squad and possibly given bench time against Italy or Scotland. then should be brought down south in the summer and start against the BaaBaa's or another club team and possibly bench a match also against a 3N team.

I think BOD will have to retire soon he looks closer and closer to spent and at times he is a liability because he plays through injuries. The lad is a hero.
I think we really need Spence and O'Malley to push on but I think earls will be used as a stop gap internationally until one of them is ready (I expect Spence)

Not insulting Earls just see him as a winger myself.

Think there will be a year or two where we don't really know who are 13 is where as I think Sexton will slot in cleanly at 10 with a combination of Wallace, Keatley and Humphreys taking over when ROG retires.

Probably be best if D'Arcy retired immediately. He can only manage a performance if players outside and within are all on their best games.

You never see D'Arcy shining on his own. And when he does he's outshone by the stars around him.

I agree with Portnoy. Throw McFadden in as Wallace isnt exactly young. I really don't think earls is the answer to Ireland's 13 jersey after BOD so it would be good if McFadden got in there nice and early and made the way easier for who ever takes over for BOD be it Earls, Spence, whoever.

One thing that must be said, Rog has been an absolute hero, he has had so many good days and his mental strength has to be admired, great players, great reader of the game and above all else a great servant to ireland

I think now would be a great time for one of Irelands best and most successful players to bow out and concentrate all his rugby at Munster for another year or two.

He will have a huge roll to player in the development of younger players such as Deasy and Keatley.

Blue,I think that having Keatley start would be more beneficial to Ireland if ROG retires. He would still have a big role to play.

Yeah Keatley has only just got to Munster, I'd like ROG to go and start teaching him like crazy, give the kid more advice, tips and tricks than he knows what to do with!

Keatley's already dodgy defensively, don't make it worse!

Thomond wrote:Blue,I think that having Keatley start would be more beneficial to Ireland if ROG retires. He would still have a big role to play.

Ah no Thomond ROG has a big roll to play in Munster winning this years HC . Keatley is not there yet.

ROG is playing some of his best rugby at the moment.

BlueMuff wrote:

Thomond wrote:Blue,I think that having Keatley start would be more beneficial to Ireland if ROG retires. He would still have a big role to play.

Ah no Thomond ROG has a big roll to play in Munster winning this years HC . Keatley is not there yet.

ROG is playing some of his best rugby at the moment.

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that would bring Munster beyond the number of allowed NIQ players in their squad!

It's something I think we have to crack down on. It was the same with Humphreys and Ulster in 2006/2007. At that time Paddy Wallace was the 'back-up' 10 for Ireland and he couldn't get a start there for Ulster because Humphreys (now retired and unavailable for the national side) was our 10. Had O'Gara pulled up injured we would have been screwed because Ulster and Leinster, in Humphreys and Contepomi, had players not available for the national side at 10.

To get a squad of 30, we need Irish-eligible guys getting gametime in all key positions like 10, 9, 1, 2 and 3. They need to be available for the national side.

I think O'Gara should be allowed to continue with Munster- but only if he agrees he will come out of retirement if there are injury problems and he's asked by the coaches to do so.

Keatly will get to start loads of games for Munster and he will be involved in all of Munster's Heineken Cup games. Its not as if he has just been playing AIL for the last couple of years (he got Connacht to an Amlin semi recently with Connacht) and put it up to Leinster in particular a few times in the interpros. He is also playing very well so far with Munster. He will be more than adequate back-up for Sexton for a while.

I've no doubt that ROG would give Ireland a dig out if there was an injury problem. Just don't expect him to spend weeks in camp away from his family just to warm the pine. That would be soul destroying.

Once this world cup is over we'll be building for the next. Elder statesmen standing aside now so that the next generation have 4 years of unbroken opportunities to knock the poop out of their positional rivals is a good thing.

And each of them will head off into the sunset with, I hope, all of our blessings and thanks (even if, you know, they're from Munster ) But lets not worry about that now, we've got a world cup to win.

Sin é wrote:Keatly will get to start loads of games for Munster and he will be involved in all of Munster's Heineken Cup games. Its not as if he has just been playing AIL for the last couple of years (he got Connacht to an Amlin semi recently with Connacht) and put it up to Leinster in particular a few times in the interpros. He is also playing very well so far with Munster. He will be more than adequate back-up for Sexton for a while.

I've no doubt that ROG would give Ireland a dig out if there was an injury problem. Just don't expect him to spend weeks in camp away from his family just to warm the pine. That would be soul destroying.

You know what? We have squads of 30-35 players and matchday squads of 22 men. On any tour, in any World Cup, SOMEONE has to do it. I bet Buckley, McFadden, Boss, Jennings and Wallace would love to be in the situation ROG is in.

Sin é wrote:I've no doubt that ROG would give Ireland a dig out if there was an injury problem. Just don't expect him to spend weeks in camp away from his family just to warm the pine. That would be soul destroying.

There's plenty of players who would walk barefoot over broken glass to "warm the pine" for their country. If ROG isn't prepared to then he doesn't deserve to wear the green jersey again. Paddy Wallace for example has sat on the bench and spent weeks in camp for years without ever complaining. If ROG doesn't want to be a team player then good riddance and to just come out with this two games in to the tournament and announce it in public without discussing it with the coaches is very unprofessional and shows a blatant disregard for his teammates.

A lot of assumptions in that last paragraph rodders.

I think ROG has a bit more air miles on the clock than any you mention in that list.

ROG has subbed 31 matches at international level to Paddy Wallace's 14 sub appearances (and has played more than double the no. of pro games between club & province).

Come back when some of them have made 30+ sub appearances bench and have over a 100 caps, and see how they think then.


Edit: And for the record - ROG has subbed 3 more times than David Humphreys at this stage (28 sub appearances, 44 starts for Ireland).

greybeard wrote:A lot of assumptions in that last paragraph rodders.

Some yes but the facts are that he announced publically after the Australia game that he was quitting after the RWC despite not having formal discussions about it either with Kidney or the IRFU, his employer. I'm sorry but that is totally unprofessional and it's an unneeded distraction in the middle of the biggest tournament there is. I can't imagine Jonny Wilkinson pulling a stunt like that.

I'm sorry but no player is bigger than the team and ROG has let himself and his country down with his selfish behaviour.

Sin é wrote:I think ROG has a bit more air miles on the clock than any you mention in that list.

ROG has subbed 31 matches at international level to Paddy Wallace's 14 sub appearances (and has played more than double the no. of pro games between club & province).

Come back when some of them have made 30+ sub appearances bench and have over a 100 caps, and see how they think then.

Are you seriously arguing this point? O'Gara has more of a right to feel pished off with not being picked than other players?

Lets just leave it here Sin pal

roddersm wrote:

greybeard wrote:A lot of assumptions in that last paragraph rodders.

Some yes but the facts are that he announced publically after the Australia game that he was quitting after the RWC despite not having formal discussions about it either with Kidney or the IRFU, his employer. I'm sorry but that is totally unprofessional and it's an unneeded distraction in the middle of the biggest tournament there is. I can't imagine Jonny Wilkinson pulling a stunt like that.

I'm sorry but no player is bigger than the team and ROG has let himself and his country down with his selfish behaviour.

Funnily enough, you and Notch seem to be the only ones 'offended'. Johnny got to start a game already and anyway, he walked out on the RFU years ago for the big bucks in France.

At least Johnny got a few minutes against Australia last summer when on tour - O'Gara didn't even get a minute on the pitch. It must have seemed a bit of a waste, particularly when his wife was heavily pregnant (she gave birth to a child a week after he came home) and they have twins under 3 years old.

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:I think ROG has a bit more air miles on the clock than any you mention in that list.

ROG has subbed 31 matches at international level to Paddy Wallace's 14 sub appearances (and has played more than double the no. of pro games between club & province).

Come back when some of them have made 30+ sub appearances bench and have over a 100 caps, and see how they think then.

Are you seriously arguing this point? O'Gara has more of a right to feel pished off with not being picked than other players?

Lets just leave it here Sin pal

No, he has missed more of his kids growing up than the rest of them. He has different priorities now.

I'm not offended at all, I think he has every right to retire at the time of his choosing after everything he's done for Ireland.

But I don't think if a player makes himself unavailable for the national side he should count as Irish Qualified at his province anymore. Maybe this would be a good time for a move overseas?

If he wants to retire I support his decision 100% and wish him well for a life beyond rugby. Having said that, the aim of the provinces is to provide players to the national side and the IRFU need to judge the situation carefully.

Sin I can't speak for Notch. I'm not offended but I am p*ssed off at the way this has come about and the timing of it.

This is something that the players and management can do without right now.

I can't understand what ROG's motivation is for announcing this now other than to sway the selection panel in his favour. Regardless of his reasons its an unprofessional way to behave.

Notch wrote:I'm not offended at all, I think he has every right to retire at the time of his choosing after everything he's done for Ireland.

But I don't think if a player makes himself unavailable for the national side he should count as Irish Qualified at his province anymore. Maybe this would be a good time for a move overseas?

If he wants to retire I support his decision 100% and wish him well for a life beyond rugby. Having said that, the aim of the provinces is to provide players to the national side and the IRFU need to judge the situation carefully.

Not worth his while going overseas now. He'd be better off financially just retiring in Ireland and getting his tax back. He has said in the past that he would like to coach in France for a year or so as he speaks French. I'm sure he would get plenty of job offers with his playing cv.

If he does not make himself available to Munster, they will have to get the chequebook out anyway to get an outhalf - so they may as well hold onto him.

roddersm wrote:Sin I can't speak for Notch. I'm not offended but I am p*ssed off at the way this has come about and the timing of it.

This is something that the players and management can do without right now.

I can't understand what ROG's motivation is for announcing this now other than to sway the selection panel in his favour. Regardless of his reasons its an unprofessional way to behave.

Most of the reputable papers have said that he hinted at retirement. Thats all.