ROG asked to delay retirement plans

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From RTÉ:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/worldcup/2011/0918/ireland_ogara.html


Ireland will seek to persuade Ronan O'Gara to shelve any retirement plans after the fly-half hinted the World Cup will be his Test swansong. An emotional O'Gara indicated in the aftermath of yesterday's magnificent 15-6 victory over Australia that his 11-year international career was almost over.

"It's massive, this is it for us. I'm done with Ireland in a few weeks," he told RTÉ Sport. "I've had a great time in this jersey but I want this to be the biggest time. It's a great team, a great bunch of lads and it means a lot to us."

Team manager Paul McNaughton revealed an effort would be made to convince O'Gara, who kicked two crucial penalties at Eden Park, to continue playing for Ireland. "Ronan hasn't talked formally to us about it. There's no doubt he still has something to offer the team after the World Cup," said McNaughton.

"He's contracted for the next couple of years. Undoubtedly (coach) Declan Kidney and the management will be encouraging him to stay on. "He's a very, very important part of the set-up here."

O'Gara has kicked 1,039 points for Ireland during his 113-cap career, but has slipped to second place in the fly-half pecking order behind Jonathan Sexton. The 34-year-old, who made his debut in 2000 and has been on three Lions tours, could yet reclaim the number 10 jersey given Sexton's unconvincing performances against the USA and Australia so far this month.

What do fans think? Should he carry on for a little while yet? My personal view is,unless he no longer enjoys playing or isn't fit to do so, I think he could continue for another year with Ireland.

roddersm wrote:Yes but by the sounds of McNaughton any new contract would likely be regarded as an NIQ since he would not be available for Ireland, which is understandable from an IRFU perspective.

That would obviously mess Munsters plans up as I presuming they have filled their NIQ quota?

There is a precedent created by David Humphrey's retirement from international rugby. There would be blue murder if O'Gara was denied a contract in Munster over this, particularly if Munster were going to be supplying another outhalf in Ian Keatley. Realistically, Munster will find it very difficult to supply two outhalfs to the national cause anyway.

To be fair Sin E, Leinster have two scrum halves at the World Cup.



And I'd imagine that the IRFU contracts now have different clauses. We've got far bigger on the whole IQ/NIQ front since Humphreys retired.

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:Yes but by the sounds of McNaughton any new contract would likely be regarded as an NIQ since he would not be available for Ireland, which is understandable from an IRFU perspective.

That would obviously mess Munsters plans up as I presuming they have filled their NIQ quota?

There is a precedent created by David Humphrey's retirement from international rugby. There would be blue murder if O'Gara was denied a contract in Munster over this, particularly if Munster were going to be supplying another outhalf in Ian Keatley. Realistically, Munster will find it very difficult to supply two outhalfs to the national cause anyway.

Yeah it's a precedent but it's certainly NOT a precedent that should be repeated. Because the IRFU made a mistake and it left us with a critical lack of depth at outhalf until the emergence of Johnny Sexton.

I suspect/theorise/guess it wasn't an issue because Humphreys agreed behind the scenes that if there was a serious injury problem he would come out of retirement. I can only imagine O'Gara being offered a new provincial contract of he breaks his IRFU contract would be contingent on a similar proviso. Munster would be upset, O'Gara would be upset, but the IRFU has the power to veto contract offers.

Sin I thought about Humphreys too.

Did we have the NIQ quota's back then? If so I presume Humphreys must have been within Ulsters quota. If not you have a point, otherwise it's irrelevent.

Where's Geoff when you need him?

... besides,wouldn't that be "red murder"? Freudian slip there sin?

red_stag wrote:To be fair Sin E, Leinster have two scrum halves at the World Cup.


And I'd imagine that the IRFU contracts now have different clauses. We've got far bigger on the whole IQ/NIQ front since Humphreys retired.

I wouldn't have an issue with scrumhalfs because we are well covered. At one stage, Ireland had 3 munster Scrumhalfs coming up to the world cup. I actually think that Stringer was dropped when Murray became an option because Munster would be really stuck without him .... and thats with having Duncan Williams who is fairly handy. Leinster had to bring back Cillian Willis for rwc cover as well. Not so easy to find an extra outhalf.

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:Yes but by the sounds of McNaughton any new contract would likely be regarded as an NIQ since he would not be available for Ireland, which is understandable from an IRFU perspective.

That would obviously mess Munsters plans up as I presuming they have filled their NIQ quota?

There is a precedent created by David Humphrey's retirement from international rugby. There would be blue murder if O'Gara was denied a contract in Munster over this, particularly if Munster were going to be supplying another outhalf in Ian Keatley. Realistically, Munster will find it very difficult to supply two outhalfs to the national cause anyway.

Yeah it's a precedent but it's certainly NOT a precedent that should be repeated. Because the IRFU made a mistake and it left us with a critical lack of depth at outhalf until the emergence of Johnny Sexton.

I suspect/theorise/guess it wasn't an issue because Humphreys agreed behind the scenes that if there was a serious injury problem he would come out of retirement. I can only imagine O'Gara being offered a new provincial contract of he breaks his IRFU contract would be contingent on a similar proviso. Munster would be upset, O'Gara would be upset, but the IRFU has the power to veto contract offers.

Well, we could have done with Humphs at the last world cup (and it was speculated on often enough that he might go as world cup cover).

Humphreys was not the problem about lack of options at outhalf - it was contempomi and a few others that delayed Sexton's emergence. Ian Keatley (2 years younger) has more club caps than Sexton.

Ireland should be able to cope without ROG for the next 6Ns using Keatley on the bench. Sexton might blossom without O'Gara being around.

Sin é wrote:Stringer was dropped when Murray became an option because Munster would be really stuck without him ....

Sin this might come as a shock to you but how Munster might fair in he RABO without certain players was not a consideration in the RWC squad selection.

The RWC and Ireland are a wee bit higher up the IRFU and Kidneys priority list

Stringer's fall from grace was quite surprising,he was second/third choice in the 6N and didn't feature in the warm up games. I was an advocate for taking him but Murray proved me wrong.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:Stringer was dropped when Murray became an option because Munster would be really stuck without him ....

Sin this might come as a shock to you but how Munster might fair in he RABO without certain players was not a consideration in the RWC squad selection.

The RWC and Ireland are a wee bit higher up the IRFU and Kidneys priority list

I'm sure they are - but pulling 3 scrumhalfs from the one club would be stupid. I bet if Leinster thought that they would be sending 2 SHs to the world cup, they would have held onto Paul O'Donoghue.

Yes it was Thomond. Mind you he played in the 6N and was poor against Wales. Murray seemed to come from nowhere.

However the real odd one was the way Boss seemed to be out in the cold and then brought from nowhere and TOL, a Kidney favourite, discarded in a total U-Turn.

Kidney does work in mysterious ways

Sin I'm just saying that Kidney's only concern would have been taking the players he felt he needed. The inconvience to the provinces wouldn't have even entered into it.

If Ireland won the RWC, no one would care if the provinces were bottom of the league.

roddersm wrote:Yes it was Thomond. Mind you he played in the 6N and was poor against Wales. Murray seemed to come from nowhere.

However the real odd one was the way Boss seemed to be out in the cold and then brought from nowhere and TOL, a Kidney favourite, discarded in a total U-Turn.

Kidney does work in mysterious ways

Not mysterious at all. O'Leary wasn't (and still is not) fit. Murray was a more like-for-like for Tomas O'Leary. I reckon they originally thought they were bringing O'Leary, Reddan & Stringer, but changed to Reddan, Murray & Boss because that would have meant that Munster would have been down 3 SHs between world cup & injury. I think Boss is lucky as it is obvious that Kidney does not rate him as you would expect him to have benched at some stage by now at least.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:Yes but by the sounds of McNaughton any new contract would likely be regarded as an NIQ since he would not be available for Ireland, which is understandable from an IRFU perspective.

That would obviously mess Munsters plans up as I presuming they have filled their NIQ quota?

There is a precedent created by David Humphrey's retirement from international rugby. There would be blue murder if O'Gara was denied a contract in Munster over this, particularly if Munster were going to be supplying another outhalf in Ian Keatley. Realistically, Munster will find it very difficult to supply two outhalfs to the national cause anyway.

Yeah it's a precedent but it's certainly NOT a precedent that should be repeated. Because the IRFU made a mistake and it left us with a critical lack of depth at outhalf until the emergence of Johnny Sexton.

I suspect/theorise/guess it wasn't an issue because Humphreys agreed behind the scenes that if there was a serious injury problem he would come out of retirement. I can only imagine O'Gara being offered a new provincial contract of he breaks his IRFU contract would be contingent on a similar proviso. Munster would be upset, O'Gara would be upset, but the IRFU has the power to veto contract offers.

Well, we could have done with Humphs at the last world cup (and it was speculated on often enough that he might go as world cup cover).

Humphreys was not the problem about lack of options at outhalf - it was contempomi and a few others that delayed Sexton's emergence. Ian Keatley (2 years younger) has more club caps than Sexton.

Ireland should be able to cope without ROG for the next 6Ns using Keatley on the bench. Sexton might blossom without O'Gara being around.

Nah, the problem was our second best 10 at the time- Paddy Wallace- wasn't playing in that position because of a player not available to play for Ireland (David Humphreys). We had our reserve flyhalf at the RWC in 2007 in the situation that he wasn't playing that position for his province due to a retired player.

It was damaging to Ireland because Wallace never got the time on the pitch he needed to get any kind of form or experience in the position he was one injury away from playing at the highest level, and some of us are concerned about the same situation repeating itself with O'Gara/Keatley. It's nowhere as bad though, because there is a credible alternative to Keatley as back-up in Ian Humphreys and there are more games and hence a lot more chances for Keatley to play.

The problem in having four provinces who are allowed to sign NIQ players is always going to be making sure you have all the players in your 30-man squad getting gametime in the biggest games. We have to be very careful about who we bring in as NIQ and how we manage players; something that we've done very well by and large, with a few notable blunders like the Humphreys situation.

I understand how Munster fans feel because Humphreys was an icon to us, and more than that he was an experienced player and a leader at a time when we really, really needed that. It's no coincidence that our worst spell in the professional era came during and after the 2007 World Cup when he was missing injured and eventually forced to retire because of it.

When a guy inspires your team to a European Cup victory, it's very hard to stand back and objectively say he should lose his contract if he retires from international rugby and you'd have found very few Ulster fans keen on the idea in 2006. Munster fans would be screaming blue murder if the IRFU let him go overseas, not least because of the mentor role he can perform for Keatley. But the IRFU should not let sentiment cloud their decision making either way.

Anyway, it's probably a moot point as O'Gara has a contract to 2013 to play for the national side. I personally still feel O'Gara should stay with Munster but it's a valid argument.

Sin é wrote:Not mysterious at all. O'Leary wasn't (and still is not) fit.

Yeah those bruised egos are a killer. I'm not entirely convinced by the back injury story!

Notch, ROG would be a bit of an icon for Munster - he too has played a big part in Munster's European achievements (he was selected as the best player of the first 15 years!) And Munster is also going through a transition - quinlan, Foley, Hayes - all the old guard moving on.

I'd say the IRFU wouldn't chance losing any support for the international team from Munster supporters - there is a recession on! And doing something like that would revivive all the old feelings that Munster players were 2nd class citizens in the IRFU's world.

Anyway, I don't think Kidney would want to force ROG to play if he didn't want to. All the players talk about his philosophy that there is more to life than rugby and Kidney (and Leinster) know all about wanting to put your family first.

Anyway, by the time that comes around, a couple of NIQ spots will be up - Borlase, Howlett & Mafi.

We can well do without Borlase as we have managed up to now to do so.

Sin é wrote:Notch, ROG would be a bit of an icon for Munster - he too has played a big part in Munster's European achievements (he was selected as the best player of the first 15 years!) And Munster is also going through a transition - quinlan, Foley, Hayes - all the old guard moving on.

Why are you repeating the exact points I just made?

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:Notch, ROG would be a bit of an icon for Munster - he too has played a big part in Munster's European achievements (he was selected as the best player of the first 15 years!) And Munster is also going through a transition - quinlan, Foley, Hayes - all the old guard moving on.

Why are you repeating the exact points I just made?

I thought you were referring to David Humphreys being an icon for Ulster

I was referring to Humphreys and O'Gara occupying similar status in their respective provinces.

Sin O'Leary isn't there because he's not good enough or at least didn't play well enough in the warm ups. It has feck all to do with Munster being short of scrum halves or TOL being injured.

roddersm wrote:Sin O'Leary isn't there because he's not good enough or at least didn't play well enough in the warm ups. It has feck all to do with Munster being short of scrum halves or TOL being injured.

So you think his on-going back injury has nothing to do with O'Leary's poor form?

After ROG's singing performance on ITV this morning, he has to go.

Thats not what I said. He was fit and available for selection at the time of the selection of the squad. He didn't make the cut because his form wasn't good enough. It's not for me to say whether that is down to his back or not.

What I am sure off is that Kidney didn't take Boss instead of TOL or Stringer because Munster were short of scrum halves. That is nonsence.

It's possible Sin, but it doesn't really matter does it?

God ROG is such a motor mouth. When I watched this interview live I did feel the emotions he was feeling but just thought typical ROG making it about himself again. Sometimes he should be banned from post match interviews.

Having said that he has been a great servant and although he didnt do too mach harm and probably just got caught up in the emotions of the game I wish he would just avoid trying to grab the headlines and go under the radar a bit more.

leinsterbaby wrote:God ROG is such a motor mouth. When I watched this interview live I did feel the emotions he was feeling but just thought typical ROG making it about himself again. Sometimes he should be banned from post match interviews.

Having said that he has been a great servant and although he didnt do too mach harm and probably just got caught up in the emotions of the game I wish he would just avoid trying to grab the headlines and go under the radar a bit more.

I would be of the total opposite to be honest. I find the boring cliches from POC and BOD so uninteresting.

ROG is a big personality in the game and certainly makes in much more interesting whether hes giving his view on the Premiership, Munster v Leinster or anything for that matter.

If all players were PC like POC and BOD the world would be very boring. I always look forward to hearing what he says.

Yes Im sure you do but the point is its not great for the team when he is always blabbing on about himself.

The last world cup the media focused on ROGs gambling addiction and he hogged the lime light putting unnecessary pressure on the team. Post WC he hinted after Ireland played NZ that he prefered playing for Munster again creating unnecessary tension.

Granted its entertaining for fans and the media but so is PDiv.

leinsterbaby wrote:Yes Im sure you do but the point is its not great for the team when he is always blabbing on about himself.

The last world cup the media focused on ROGs gambling addiction and he hogged the lime light putting unnecessary pressure on the team. Post WC he hinted after Ireland played NZ that he prefered playing for Munster again creating unnecessary tension.

Granted its entertaining for fans and the media but so is PDiv.

You think he was at fault because the media were having a go at him about his gambling?

I suppose you think he was delighted about all the attention his marriage got as well.

Surely, its best if the team are kept out of the limelight anyway. One thing is for sure, he has drawn the spotlight away from Jonathan Sexton's poor return on kicking

Sin é wrote:
Surely, its best if the team are kept out of the limelight anyway. One thing is for sure, he has drawn the spotlight away from Jonathan Sexton's poor return on kicking

Thats just it sin he has drawn attention exactly to that, which was his plan. A real team player would have backed Sexton. You didn't see Wilkinson using the media to snipe at and heap pressure on Flood. Whoever is not starting is supportive of the other, especially in public.

It was poor show from ROG but its done now. Time to move on.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Surely, its best if the team are kept out of the limelight anyway. One thing is for sure, he has drawn the spotlight away from Jonathan Sexton's poor return on kicking

Thats just it sin he has drawn attention exactly to that, which was his plan. A real team player would have backed Sexton. You didn't see Wilkinson using the media to snipe at and heap pressure on Flood. Whoever is not starting is supportive of the other, especially in public.

It was poor show from ROG but its done now. Time to move on.

The point I'm making is that everyone is ripping into ROG, not Sexton (and taking pressure off him).

From what I've seen (twitter etc), ROG is very well liked within the squad, so I doubt if anything bothers them too much as to what he says. None of Sexton's team mates would have been very happy with him if Ireland lost by a missed penalty last weekend, by the way.

It was Sexton who won the game Sin with the drop goal. It was 9-6 when ROG came on and I've no doubt Sexton would have kicked the one in front of the sticks that ROG got.

Sextons final kick was off the post and a good strike. In fact with a kinder bounce BOD would have scored a try.

I don't think the team are going to judge their place kicker do you?

rods, I'm speaking from the point of view that at the end of the day the main issue for the Ireland squad with regard to Sexton & O'Gara is that they do their main job well on the pitch and take the points when offered.

The only way ROG will affect the team is if he doesn't produce on the pitch when he is there. Likewise for Sexton.

Their teammates might get annoyed if they are continually being asked by the media what the story is though and why it was probably deemed necessary for ROG to clear the air at the press conference.

I do think it can affect team if your kicker keeps missing their kicks though, even if you scrape through at the end. People are still talking about how ROG nearly lost the grandslam when he had a nightmare of a kicking day against England.

Sin é wrote:People are still talking about how ROG nearly lost the grandslam when he had a nightmare of a kicking day against England.

Are they?

Sin é wrote:
I do think it can affect team if your kicker keeps missing their kicks though, even if you scrape through at the end. People are still talking about how ROG nearly lost the grandslam when he had a nightmare of a kicking day against England.

Off course it can but it doesn't change the teams view of the goal kicker as a person. It takes b*lls to step up and take the kicks whether you miss or not. I'm 100% certain no player is going to be p*ssed off with their kicker for missing their goals. Sexton needs to nail those kicks but his teammates will think no differently about him one way or another.

I hadn't thought about ROG's kicking in that England game until you mentioned it. I do remember when Humphreys missed the drop goal against Australia and the penalty against France though

roddersm wrote:It was Sexton who won the game Sin with the drop goal. It was 9-6 when ROG came on and I've no doubt Sexton would have kicked the one in front of the sticks that ROG got.

Sextons final kick was off the post and a good strike. In fact with a kinder bounce BOD would have scored a try.

I don't think the team are going to judge their place kicker do you?

You got to be kidding me. You dont really think that a drop goal in the first half when we had a penalty under the posts was the winning of the match????? No wonder your so blinkered if your really believe this.

4 from 11. Thats the reality no where no good enough and even most Leinster fans bar you would admitt that.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
I do think it can affect team if your kicker keeps missing their kicks though, even if you scrape through at the end. People are still talking about how ROG nearly lost the grandslam when he had a nightmare of a kicking day against England.

Off course it can but it doesn't change the teams view of the goal kicker as a person. It takes b*lls to step up and take the kicks whether you miss or not. I'm 100% certain no player is going to be p*ssed off with their kicker for missing their goals. Sexton needs to nail those kicks but his teammates will think no differently about him one way or another.

I hadn't thought about ROG's kicking in that England game until you mentioned it. I do remember when Humphreys missed the drop goal against Australia and the penalty against France though

Of course they are not going to say anything to the player who does miss them* - but that won't stop them thinking "I wish ROG (or Sexton) was here instead despite ROG (Sexton) being complete tools on occasion."

*they might want to see them putting in hours of practice though before letting them off.

BlueMuff wrote:
4 from 11. Thats the reality no where no good enough and even most Leinster fans bar you would admitt that.

No it isn't and if it doesn't improve then Sexton should be dropped. However there were signs of improvement against Australia.

You do realise I'm an Ulster supporter?

Sin you are some craic!

Reddan and Sexton are the best half back pairing in Irish rugby. Good things happen when they play together. Sextons kicking must imporove though and ROG needs to focus on being a team player all the time.

leinsterbaby wrote:Reddan and Sexton are the best half back pairing in Irish rugby. Good things happen when they play together.

They didn't set the world on fire in the first two games. As of now they are I think Murray could snake his way in if we reach the quarters.

Murray is grand and I know Reddan isnt amazing but that would be a pretty daft move unless Reddan seriously hit OLeary lows or something it aint gonna happen.

Reddan was very good v Australia. One of his better games. Sexton was good bar his goal kicking.

He didn't create much aainst OZ,it is the whole team's problem but he has to take some blame.

His job as scrum half is to get quick ball to the outside backs which is what he did. He is not Genia so no darts around the rucks but he barely put a foot wrong all night. Decent performance by Irish scrum half standards.

Why the would you start 3 cap Murray in the quarters of a world cup? What the hell would that achieve. If you ask me its madness. I think Boss should be ahead of him anyway. Not that he is a bad player but there is a time for giving a guy his first caps and the knockout stages of the WC isnt one of those times. Boss brings as much to the table as any of them anyway.

1. ROG shouldn't have brought it up in the middle of a World Cup
2. It wasn't calculated. He was holding back tears and blurting out whatever came into his head.
3. If Sexton gets his kicking up to standard he'll remain first choice because of his superior defending and his partnership with Reddan, D'arcy and BOD.
4. ROG gets another chance to stake his claim in the next game.
5. Sexton will probably start against Italy. If he keeps missing most of his kicks ROG will come on and will probably start in the quarter finals too.
6. If D'arcy doesn't recover they might both start together anyway.

Case closed.

I just noticed that in the time it took me to type that ye have veered off into a discussion about the 9 jersey. Has to be Reddan for me.

Could you explain why its a daft move? Reddan is lucky that Murray is a newish cap and Sexton is his team mate in Leinster. Kidney is great as well as he usually gets Reddan off before he does his mandatory headless chicken moment that usually gives away points in every game he plays.

Reddan was decent enough against Australia - but he did throw some poor passes where he was lucky that the ball bounced the right way.

I rewatched the game with SH commentators - intersting to get their take on who they rate.

How did you get it with SH commentators Sin? Downloaded it?

Feckless Rogue wrote:How did you get it with SH commentators Sin? Downloaded it?

Yes. Do you want an pm?

BlueMuff wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:God ROG is such a motor mouth. When I watched this interview live I did feel the emotions he was feeling but just thought typical ROG making it about himself again. Sometimes he should be banned from post match interviews.

Having said that he has been a great servant and although he didnt do too mach harm and probably just got caught up in the emotions of the game I wish he would just avoid trying to grab the headlines and go under the radar a bit more.

I would be of the total opposite to be honest. I find the boring cliches from POC and BOD so uninteresting.

ROG is a big personality in the game and certainly makes in much more interesting whether hes giving his view on the Premiership, Munster v Leinster or anything for that matter.

If all players were PC like POC and BOD the world would be very boring. I always look forward to hearing what he says.

Me too. Phook mediocrity and platitudes.