The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the virtual rugby pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the collage of great current hookers pictures on the bar. We've got Tincu, Ledesma, Ford, Best, Thompson and Bennett all in action. Graffiti's a banning offence

So pull up a chair....what'll it be?




Previous pub: https://www.606v2.com/t13864-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-pub#475041

Llanelli and Scarlets, Notch, their history got combined at the start of the regions. (that does confuse me at times but guess they felt the need to have a bit of history to give fans something to connect with and invest in).

Just been reading back, gutting for Martyn Williams that he's broken his arm, glad he got a good reception at Ravenhill though, the man's a legend.

MrsP wrote:Any thoughts LDPCP?

I mean on the travellers, not just, "Do you have any thoughts at all?"



Although, your thoughts on anything will be greated with all due reverence.

Plenty of thoughts mrsp, sadly it is difficult to type them all on my phone. I deal with travellers regularly and they come in all shapes and sizes. Sadly in my experience the bad ones who contribute nothing and take everything vastly outnumber the good ones who contribute to society whilst maintaining their traditional values.

I forgot your puter was deceased.

Or is it just requiring intensive care?

rugbydreamer wrote:Llanelli and Scarlets, Notch, their history got combined at the start of the regions. (that does confuse me at times but guess they felt the need to have a bit of history to give fans something to connect with and invest in).

Just been reading back, gutting for Martyn Williams that he's broken his arm, glad he got a good reception at Ravenhill though, the man's a legend.

I can't help but feel that is very disrespectful to fans of other clubs from the Scarlets region. I suppose it makes sense, but its stuff like that that divides Welsh rugby fans. Still, judging by 606, we can't exactly throw stones in our glass house of provincial infighting!

I don't actually think the likes of the Quins or Llandovery mind too much Notch. Remember Llanelli was pretty much a region anyway so guess it made sense to take over the history. It is a bit weird though.

and ha! no Notch you can't. It's a bit weird but Welsh fans seem to be getting on pretty well on this site, much better then on old 606 anyway!

Think it is deceased mrsp, we'd been discussing getting a new one anyway.

Well I hope you get one at a reasonable price.

I would offer some advice, but I wouldn't know a Byte if it bit me...

Pete
Does it have to be a new one ? if you kept the other one so long then I presume the state of the art stuff is not your top priority,
Some very good bargains to be had in the reconditioned market you can even get a good refurb from PC World

Would like a new one to be honest, been looking at a few today, don't have to cost the earth.

Have a look at the PC World site you will get a higher spec refurb for a similar priced new one but still have the same guarantee,

I've come to have a more nuanced relationship with the guardian since the phone hacking scandal and wikileaks- it's made mistakes- but this is a quality piece of journalism.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/19/battle-for-the-burqa

I'm an atheist and a secularist, but the burqa ban is very much illiberal and statist. If the European Court of Human Rights agrees, it could scupper similar plans across Europe. That's exciting to me. That would be one for the 'win' column.

If they can wear them does that mean I can wear my crash helmet in a bank or do we make it illegal for shop keepers to have a notice up no No Hoodies.

No, but you can wear whatever you like in the street. They can't.

So should they take them off when going into banks or shops ?

I think if you're a proprietor or manager of a shop and a bank you have to make a judgement call and I think it would be incredibly churlish to ask a woman by herself or with kids to do that if she poses no obvious threat.

If a group of men in crash helmets walk into a bank, you might worry they pose a threat. If a single woman with a kid walks in with her face covered you probably don't need to publicly humiliate her in that way.

In fact, I would go so far as to say in 95% of cases there's no need for them to do that if they enter a bank or shop. Unless you're suffering from some form of paranoia.

I think if asked to do that, they should comply but would have every right to be pretty unhappy and angry about it.

As am I when asked to remove my spiderman mask in public

One for Cari: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10752956

Night all.

If they want to wear the gear so be it their husband would not let them out in public without it anyway standard issue clothing and walk two paces behind.

Sounds like proper order to me. Women have the right to be enslaved.

Oh I wish that was true

I can't agree with you at all on this Notch, they are horrible things that degrade the women they cover up. They have no place in our society and cause far to many problems than they are worth.


I personally feel very uncomfortable by them as well

Exactly hughie,,, My wife went to the loo in a hotel in Manchester and she was convinced there was a man in there wearing the gear.

Then stop wearing them Hugs. You are a handsome lad. Dont cover up.

Cymroglan wrote:Exactly hughie,,, My wife went to the loo in a hotel in Manchester and she was convinced there was a man in there wearing the gear.

Excellent idea. I can throw away my invisible-man suit now.

Just wear a dress you would not look out of place in Manchester.

When you have a few min guys have a look at this video, I think this woman deserves a medal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W86jlvrG54o&feature=related

Aye I should gibbo. That's the thing though I could wear one and wonder round London for the day and no one would know who I am.

This is an extreme point I know, but if I go into a post office in a balaclava I'm going to be arrested in an instant. Now you can see more of my face in a balaclava than you can with a burca but no one bats an eyelid when a burca strolls in. It's going to cause a mess


Balaclava Baddy Blames Burca

hughie1986 wrote:I can't agree with you at all on this Notch, they are horrible things that degrade the women they cover up. They have no place in our society and cause far to many problems than they are worth.

I think banning them causes even more problems. It opens the door to all sorts of discrimination. Basically, if someone makes a decision to wear an article of clothing- they should be allowed to unless it's infringing on someone elses liberty.

I may not agree with their decision to wear it, but I will defend their right to make that decision.

Cymroglan wrote:If they want to wear the gear so be it their husband would not let them out in public without it anyway standard issue clothing and walk two paces behind.

A lot of women interviewed for the piece I posted chose to wear the gear without any form of pressure from families.

That there is the problem notch, a lot of the time its not the womans choice and she is forced to wear it by the husband.

It's a pity that the women don't get a say in the matter,,,, Some religious freak will be making the decision for them.

I think people feel uncomfortable because they can't see the face, and facial expressions are a large part of communication.

My personal thoughts on the Burqa are that it's an absurd, impractical article of clothing and I personally don't share the values that lead to it's adoption. How can you ban someone from wearing an article of clothing though?

There are some situations where you have to show your face, and they have to be handled sensitively. But I've worn a balaclava before, when I was living in Aberdeen and had to walk my dog in blizzard conditions with driving wet sleet.

Notch wrote:

Cymroglan wrote:If they want to wear the gear so be it their husband would not let them out in public without it anyway standard issue clothing and walk two paces behind.

A lot of women interviewed for the piece I posted chose to wear the gear without any form of pressure from families.

Do you think they would dare say otherwise.. Spend some time in their company and you will soon realise they don't laugh actually they rarely talk.

All women should be allowed to wear what they like without intimidation. Like The Slut Marches back a few months ago. Kind of the opposite to this.. . Yet the same. When does a Religious right transcend a Civil right or Law? Its a tricky area.

But, covering your complete face should be banned for pure recognition purposes in banks, shops, airports etc.

I live in an area where its more than common. I look out my window to the park and literally 10's of joggers wearing full burcas. Some with sun-glasses. Which is a hoot. No disrespect, but it is.

Happy Birthday me

hughie1986 wrote:That there is the problem notch, a lot of the time its not the womans choice and she is forced to wear it by the husband.

And yet if the woman makes a choice to wear it of her own volition, that is breaking the law in France. They have no right to wear it anymore, the state is restricting it's behaviour.

Cymroglan wrote:

Notch wrote:

Cymroglan wrote:If they want to wear the gear so be it their husband would not let them out in public without it anyway standard issue clothing and walk two paces behind.

A lot of women interviewed for the piece I posted chose to wear the gear without any form of pressure from families.

Do you think they would dare say otherwise.. Spend some time in their company and you will soon realise they don't laugh actually they rarely talk.

Your experience with women wearing burqas ≠ the motivations of every woman who wears a burqa. The motivations will vary hugely between countries and individuals.

I've already said I disagree with the wearing of the burqa myself by the way. I think it's distasteful, and underlines a fundamentally unbalanced gender relationship. I think that men forcing women to dress in a certain way is inherently wrong. BUT I cannot in all good conscience support a ban on an item of clothing. I cannot say the state has any business introducing legislature to regulate what people wear.

Like skinheads- some skinheads are violent and racist. Should the state introduce laws banning hair to be cut shorter than a certain length? What if I get my head shaved and am a model citizen.

You have to see the irony here. One French politician who supported the ban described burqas as walking prisons. Now, women who commit to wearing it are frightened to leave the house. They can't get jobs. People shout insults at them in the street and deny their right to wear the clothes. They face prosecution. That's a real 'prison' one entirely of the States creation.

Cymroglan wrote:When you have a few min guys have a look at this video, I think this woman deserves a medal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W86jlvrG54o&feature=related

Cymro,

She has 2 medals. Those fantastic boys she has raised. I bet she couldn't think of a more valuable prize.

And,

Happy Birthday!

2011 why do they actually need to wear it what purpose does it serve ?
If they want to wear it on religious grounds fair enough then wear it in the place they go and worship in.
This is nothing to do with religion it's the fact that the average Arab male thinks that women are beneath them they are only on this earth to serve their husbands.
They come from a society that will jail a woman if she is a victim of Cuddle in a bad way they are just a bunch of insecure control freaks.

Diolch MrsP Thank you

Jebus, dont DO that Cymro! Wipes tears from eyes. Amazing vid.

Happy Birthday man! Happy Everyday!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgqD826HGuI

Diolch Mr G

Cymroglan wrote:2011 why do they actually need to wear it what purpose does it serve ?
If they want to wear it on religious grounds fair enough then wear it in the place they go and worship in.
This is nothing to do with religion it's the fact that the average Arab male thinks that women are beneath them they are only on this earth to serve their husbands.
They come from a society that will jail a woman if she is a victim of Cuddle in a bad way they are just a bunch of insecure control freaks.

I agree with everything you say, but how does any of that justify the state intervening to ban it?

Isn't it ironic that you complain about the burqa and male dominated Arab society taking away women's voices and yet when a few women complain to a journalist that they are being persecuted against because they are wearing it and because of the furore created by the ban you're not listening to them?

A government creating the climate where a woman can be attacked in the street because she is wearing a burqa is no different to religion creating a climate where a woman can be attacked for choosing not to wear a burqa or hijab.

A few women complain to a journalist and more than likely she did this in the precence of her husband.
Nobody is stopping them from wearing it all they are being asked to do is to stop wearing it in public.

Notch has a strong point you know. A very valid one at that. Its just getting into dangerous waters around Europe right now.

But, I think the Law of the Land, where reasonable - as I think it is in this case, should be upheld.

In April, France introduced a law against covering your face in public.

That is the law of the land French people have to abide by it so why should anybody else be exempt.
If I went to a Muslim country I would be expected to accept their laws so why should they get any special privileges from anybody else.

Cymroglan wrote:In April, France introduced a law against covering your face in public.

That is the law of the land French people have to abide by it so why should anybody else be exempt.
If I went to a Muslim country I would be expected to accept their laws so why should they get any special privileges from anybody else.

I'm debating the justness of the law. And also, the net effect of the law in practice.

The French people don't seem too unhappy about it but I guess you will get a small minority that will complain.
I would though sympathise with a French villager who lived in the mountainous region of France if he was fined for wearing a balaclava during a blizzard.

I know this discussion is over but ...
The burqa and niqab are essentially about men controlling women. The Koran decrees that men and women should dress modestly. This has been interpreted by some men as women should completely cover themselves. It is not a requirement of the Islamic religion for women to do so - it is cultural.

Part of the reason is that men have always insisted on women being the guardians of morals of society. This has been done in every society through history. In our society this is manifested by someone saying of a Cuddle in a bad way victim "She was asking for it".

It is all based on the myth that men are unable to control their urges (just being a bit wary of the filters on here, but you know what I mean); and the further myth that if men cannot satisfy their "urges" it will do irreperable damage to ... I never found out what bit of men would be irreperably damaged if they couldn't satisfy themselves . In order to reduce the temptation for men, women had to dress in utterly ridiculous clothing, like burqas and niqabs etc.

However, in spite of the extreme controlling of the garment, simple fact is that women in Muslim countries still get attacked; very unfortunately it is of course ALWAYS their fault.

Undoubtedly the women in the report Notch referred us to DID make a choice to wear these garments. One has to ask why? Some of them were converts. Everyone knows of the zeal of converts. Has no one told them that this is not a religious requirement?

As to the religious freedom issue, I am sure if this goes to a human rights court, the defendants (presumably the French Govt) will have a whole swathe of Imams and Sharia lawyers who will insist that these are not religious requirements - they are cultural, masquerading as religious.

Does a state have a right to ban inappropriate culture? Would you object to some of the more obscene rap lyrics being banned?

If these women are in prison, it is of their own making. They should obey the law of the land. They can do this quite easily and still obey the strictures of the Koran to dress modestly.

Flip me Flip heavy or what? Who the Flip started that one? Notch? Burqa.

Happy B.day Cymro! Can't wait for this week to be over: I'm not used to working 50+ hours in a week and exercising each night!!

Penblwydd hapus Cymroglangloyw