All Blacks v France...

First topic message reminder :

First, before expanding on my title, need to say Wales / Samoa today was too tight for comfort. I'm as hopeful as most that we will see a Wales / Ireland QF with the prospect of meeting another of the 6 Nations sides in the Semis, as we (Wales) have beaten these sides and as such wont have the physiological problems that we get when meeting SH sides, but there is a long way to go yet and discussed on other threads. So just going to leave my fingers crossed and wait and see.....

...but back to the title.

Some posted that the All Blacks may decide to throw the game against France to ensure an easier passage through to a final. If France think the same, we could end up with the most boring (yet humorous maybe) game ever in a RWC. Can just see it know.... Ma Nonu creeping up behind Carter and tying his boot laces together for a laugh.... you may even see McCaw staying on side at the breakdown... Can you believe that. How ridiculous is that going to be.

Actually, I don't think either side will go out to loose a game on purpose, but it must be in the back of their minds.

Any thoughts....

Dim wrote:France look to be heading down the throwing the game route by playing an entirely new half back pairing of Yachvili and Parra, don't think I've ever seen Parra at 10 before, it could only happen with Lievremont...

Disagree about going down the garbage route. If indeed this is the actual match roster, the only position to quibble with is out half. The rest of the team is solid. And good. I've never seen Parra at out half in any Internationals, but perhaps he has experience at club level? He does boss a game quite well.

I'd prefer Dagg over Mils at this stage ,he might not be as sound defensively but Israel Dagg is devastating from the back.PLus he can kick for posts a skill which might prove useful should one of the French forwards decide Carter is due an early shower and a trip to the hospital

Parra does have a bit of 10 experience at club level (a couple of games for bourgouin during his 1st pro year back in 2006-2007) and when he was a youngster. at least he's dynamic and like to run the ball a bit.

a big bet from ML on that but he had to do something about trinh-duc which is shame because he was one of our essential players before the worldcup.

the rest of the squad is actually consistent with the performances from the 1st two games, one could argue with Traille at 15 but we know that ML likes him and he will bring some defensive power to a backline which would look otherwise a bit light (specially given the average form of our centres).

I for one do not blame lievremont this time and he's right to name his team early in the week so thta they can train properly together. hope NZ dont put more than 40 points through us and that we get to score a few.

Skrela is crocked,Trinc-ducnh benched ,Parra Started versus Canada in atrocious conditions and played damn well.France side v Canada was more convincing than v Japan.
IF the crocks make the All Blacks side,expect Ali Williams starting at lock,Thomson at 8,Cowan at scrum half,Mils at full back.
Dagg and Kahui on the wings.Weepu covering 9and 10,SBW,and Cory Jane as backs cover.Whitelock,Hore,Vito,and Afoa.
That will be what I would expect,personally Cory Jane and Dagg on wing,Kahui,Ellis,and Ben Franks but it won`t happen.
Don`t think either side will throw it ,but the bonus for a loss is either side can still qualify.

New Zealand will win at a canter

French team:

Traille
Clerc
Rougerie
Mermoz
Médard
Parra
Yachvili
Picamoles
Bonnaire
Dusautoir
Nallet
Pape
Ducalcon
Szarziewski
Poux

So mostly their first choice team as far as I can read Lievremont. Parra at ten is an interesting one, but with TD out of form and no other viable options you can understand the call, and Parra looked good there against Japan.

Traille at FB is hard to understand, given Heymans has recovered enough to take his place on the bench. I can only guess that it may have something to do with France beating NZ with him there four years ago...

The wingers and centres is easily their best combination IMO. Glad to see Mermoz in there, and his partnership with Rougerie could be interesting.

Back row is always strong for France, but surprised Harinardoquy isn't starting. Picamoles is an excellent n°8 who's been ignored far too long.

Second row is their best combination too.

Front row is more limited. Surprised Servat isn't on from the start, but maybe as he's still just come back from injury and started the last two games he needs a break. Would have liked to see Barcella (human wrecking ball) start, rather than the solid but unspectacular Poux.

So all in all, only two selections I'm unhappy with, a couple of others I could quibble about but understand, and the rest is France's strongest team IMO. For Lievremont, that's pretty good...

Brilliant!

Well done France.
Looks like we'll finally get our hardest pool game for 20 years!!

Faith has been restored.

Now the AB's really look forward to the rest of the tournament which now has a clear road ahead and they can plan with a target in mind. Everything is now up to them...

I told you, mate! And we are now vindicated.
Life is good.
You owe me a beer.

Name your brew...!

Eden Parks going to be grand this week after a relatively quiet start for the AB's- sneaking through while the attention goes on the big match ups...now its their turn...can't wait...

Poor showing from Lievremont. As small as it may be, there is a chance France could have toppled the AB's and given themselves a kinder KO draw. Scotland or the Pumas sound just fine if you're coming off the back of thwarting the home favs. Since when has this safety first approach been beneficial in the long run? For warmups it can be understood but at the highest stage?! More sides seem to be growing less ambitious and more traumatised by risks as the years go by. Surely this could lead to the RWC losing considerable value...

Knowsit17 wrote:Poor showing from Lievremont. As small as it may be, there is a chance France could have toppled the AB's and given themselves a kinder KO draw. Scotland or the Pumas sound just fine if you're coming off the back of thwarting the home favs. Since when has this safety first approach been beneficial in the long run? For warmups it can be understood but at the highest stage?! More sides seem to be growing less ambitious and more traumatised by risks as the years go by. Surely this could lead to the RWC losing considerable value...

Not quite with you knowsit. You mean kinder draw for the quarters? The kinder draw for them is the other side surely. They are familiar with England France Ireland and Wales and wouldnt have to meet a SH team till the final.

Its not a lot kinder when they have to then meet either SA or Oz in the Semi is it? Or is there a view that harder road is now that without the SH teams?

Don`t kid yourselves that is a VERY strong French side,Iwant an All Blacks win.Because to win a RWC after losing a group is something no one has achieved yet.

What is the feeling going in to this match from the Press in NZ ?

Just a quiet confidence going on here. We're more interested in getting our key players back on the field. McCaw, Dagg and Mils are 100%.

Carter is almost there and Read will train fully next week for Canada. NZ will just do the business this week and a win is likely given current form. At Eden Park in front of 60,000 the AB's won't want to lose and for the French to beat the AB's with a team that clearly isn't performing as well they'd have to be jumping out of their skins and theyve no reason to given the runner up position is an ok spot.

They've named a half to start at 10 for the first time so this isnt likely to be 'one of those games'

Don't expect an upset with this one...

Personally I think the All Blacks will destroy France. Home advantage is so important. They have a point to prove.

Rather than choose between scrum-halves Morgan Parra and Dimitri Yachvili, France coach Marc Lièvremont has done what only he could...he has picked both to face the All Blacks in Auckland on Saturday.

As result, France will have an all-new half-back pair for their most important game in four years.

Regular fly-half François Trinh-Duc, who started both of France's games so far and has been one of the few regular features of the French team during the Lièvremont era, is left on the bench.

Elsewhere, full-back Damien Traille and loose forwards Louis Picamoles and Julien Bonnaire are rewarded for their strong performances against Canada.

Up front, hooker Dimitri Szarzewski starts his first game of the tournament, allowing William Servat to take a break on the bench.

Aurélien Rougerie and Maxime Mermoz will play in midfield together for just the second time. Their only other game as pair was back in March when France beat Scotland in the Six Nations.

Maxime Medard comes in at left wing, with Rougerie reverting back from playing on the wing against Canada to center in place of David Marty, who had a poor match against the Canadians.

Parra has never started a match at 10 for France and will likely be pitted against Dan Carter, arguably the best fly-half in the world, at Eden Park.

"I thought about this long into the night, especially the decision about the half-backs, which wasn't an easy one," said Lièvremont.

"Francois Trinh-Duc is paying the price a bit for the last two games, and Morgan has done very well when he's played."

Parra has not played fly-half at club level for three years, and has made two just fleeting appearances for France in this position.

"Even though he's not the biggest of lads, he's very courageous and I trust the backrow will protect him," added Lièvremont.

Lièvremon appears attempting to shake Trinh-Duc out of his slump in form.

"I'm expecting him to react. I'm disappointed with his two performances and I've told him that," explained the coach

"He has trouble accepting when he's underperformed, which is a necessary thing to be a champion."

With utility back Jean-Marc Doussain having arrived from France late Monday, and expected to feature against Tonga in the final Pool A game, Lièvremont has clearly issued Trinh-Duc a challenge.

It was a brave move from the coach, seeing as Trinh-Duc has been his first-choice flyhalf for three years.

"There will be competition for places, perhaps there hasn't been enough of that for Francois," said Lièvremont.

"Picamoles has been rewarded for his last match. "I've always reproached him for his inconsistency, now he has the chance to show he can play two good matches at the highest level. It's up to him to see if he can take it."

Lièvremont. had considered waiting until Thursday to name his team on the same day as New Zealand, but he does not expect much chopping and changing in the All Blacks team.

"I'm not expecting any big surprises, except the name of the center who will play with Conrad Smith," he said.

"I expect to see the best of the All Blacks in this match."

France 15 Damien Traille, 14 Vincent Clerc, 13 Aurélien Rougerie, 12 Maxime Mermoz, 11 Maxime Médard, 10 Morgan Parra, 9 Dimitri Yachvili, 8 Louis Picamoles, 7 Julien Bonnaire, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Pascale Papé, 4 Lionel Nallet, 3 Luc Ducalcon, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Jean-Baptiste Poux.
Replacements: 16 William Servat, 17 Fabien Barcella, 18 Julien Pierre, 19 Imanol Harinordoquy, 20 Francois Trinh-Duc, 21 Fabrice Estebanez, 22 Cédric Heymans.

Date: Saturday, September 24
Kick-off: 20.30 ( 08.30 GMT)
Venue: Eden Park, Auckland
Referee: Alain Rolland (Ireland)

Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Mils Muliaina and Israel Dagg are all expected to be fit for New Zealand's clash with France on Saturday.

The quartet were sidelined for the All Blacks 83-7 victory over Japan on Thursday but are recovering well from their various niggles and took part in training on Monday.

"It looks like they're all on track to be available this Saturday," said All Blacks assistant coach Wayne Smith.

"Richie had quite a big session and finished it doing some of the forward unit work. Daniel got through a bit of work today and (his back) had freed up a bit better but he still is not 100 per cent."

"The back is still stiff and a bit uncomfortable but I think the positive thing today was that he goal-kicked after training and that's a really good sign. Mils got through a lot more and is pretty close to right and Israel looked pretty free."

Number eight Kieran Read has already been ruled out of the clash with France due to a foot injury but having begun to run again is expected to make his first appearance in the competition against Canada on October 2.

Despite having flattered to deceive in their victories over Japan and Canada, Smith believes France will prove quite a handful - but one that the All Blacks are ready for.

"We've studied them through the Six Nations and in pre-World Cup games so we have a pretty good feel for what their patterns are and from my experience patterns don't change a lot with individuals," he said.

"We've got a really big game this week and we've got to get really get some edge. We've been watching all the other teams play and if you look at a couple of games - Ireland is a good example - the physicality of their game was well up from what we've experienced so we've got to get that really quickly."

Yeah theres just not this anti French feeling that some seem to think there is. We respect the French as we do other teams. Is revenge for 2007 a big factor this week? Well no. Not really.

We've played France a few times since then so its water under the bridge. If it were knockout then that would be different, but it aint and life goes on for both no matter who wins. the stakes are not as high for this one.

What we are hoping for is a good hard match and I'm not totally convinced we're going to get it.

Worth mentioning that the referee will be Allan Roland.

So far rated (by Stag's mates) as the second worst referee in the tournament:
https://www.606v2.com/t14044-referee-ratings-after-round-1

With a dismal ratings for everything, but particularly that tackle area and bottoming out on "attitude".

TheGreyGhost wrote:Worth mentioning that the referee will be Allan Roland.

So far rated (by Stag's mates) as the second worst referee in the tournament:
https://www.606v2.com/t14044-referee-ratings-after-round-1

With a dismal ratings for everything, but particularly that tackle area and bottoming out on "attitude".

Thanks for that contribution GW. Referees play a huge part in setting the environment for an exciting flowing contest (when England aren't involved).

Interesting that we've again been landed with a the worst northern hemisphere ref in the tournament for our clash with France.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Thanks for that contribution GW. Referees play a huge part in setting the environment for an exciting flowing contest (when England aren't involved).

Interesting that we've again been landed with a the worst northern hemisphere ref in the tournament for our clash with France.

I thought that was Wayne Barnes

"I thought about this long into the night, especially the decision about the half-backs, which wasn't an easy one," said Lièvremont.

"Francois Trinh-Duc is paying the price a bit for the last two games, and Morgan has done very well when he's played."

Parra has not played fly-half at club level for three years, and has made two just fleeting appearances for France in this position.

"Even though he's not the biggest of lads, he's very courageous and I trust the backrow will protect him," added Lièvremont.

Lièvremon appears attempting to shake Trinh-Duc out of his slump in form.

"I'm expecting him to react. I'm disappointed with his two performances and I've told him that," explained the coach

"He has trouble accepting when he's underperformed, which is a necessary thing to be a champion."

With utility back Jean-Marc Doussain having arrived from France late Monday, and expected to feature against Tonga in the final Pool A game, Lièvremont has clearly issued Trinh-Duc a challenge.

It was a brave move from the coach, seeing as Trinh-Duc has been his first-choice flyhalf for three years.

"There will be competition for places, perhaps there hasn't been enough of that for Francois," said Lièvremont.

"Picamoles has been rewarded for his last match. "I've always reproached him for his inconsistency, now he has the chance to show he can play two good matches at the highest level. It's up to him to see if he can take it."

Lièvremont. had considered waiting until Thursday to name his team on the same day as New Zealand, but he does not expect much chopping and changing in the All Blacks team.

"I'm not expecting any big surprises, except the name of the center who will play with Conrad Smith," he said.

"I expect to see the best of the All Blacks in this match."

Is it just me, or does Mad Marc sound like he's given up?

France by 20.

It should be the best match up of the World Cup so far.

France front row, despite packing a punch is hardly first team quality no Servat and no Mas could prove to be crucial. Parra at 10 is a funny call aswell, only way France will win the game is for the centres and wingers to dominate, Mermoz on paper was the best centre in Europe last season, and when getting over the game line Medard and Clerc as we all know are clinical finishers.

I just feel that New Zealand are far too strong, they have depth and quality all over the field, every player has put in a shift so far and have impressed, Dagg and Kaino especially. Still no Kieran Read of course, but with the lack of quality in the French back row compared to New Zealand's, I think the All Blacks won't have any trouble in that department. Picamoles and Bonnaire despite being good players, are nowhere near good enough to start, maybe one should but Hari and Lakafia offer something more in my view.

Whilst NZ should win, I think they'll struggle against France. Again. For all their relative talent, the AB still do not posess a scrum half with commensurate ability and both the Wallabies and Boks showed that if you can disrupt them at the breakdown and put the 9 under pressure then they're eminently beatable.

France have their problems, consistency being but one, but I would not be suprised if they caused an upset here. Its not like they havent done it before.

I like the way you consider selected games.

It didn't look like NZ had too many troubles against Australia in Auckland last time out did it?

Not sure how your rating of NZ's stocks at 9 are derived.

If any side can "Disrupt the breakdown and put the 9 under pressure" they go a long way to beating any team, however this is similar to "how to become rich" really isn't it. Easier said than done.

The absence of Read is a bigger issue for NZ, and it was the problems in the back row that actually caused NZ problems in both Pt. Elizabeth and Brisbane.

sexton_style wrote:It should be the best match up of the World Cup so far.

France front row, despite packing a punch is hardly first team quality no Servat and no Mas could prove to be crucial. Parra at 10 is a funny call aswell, only way France will win the game is for the centres and wingers to dominate, Mermoz on paper was the best centre in Europe last season, and when getting over the game line Medard and Clerc as we all know are clinical finishers.

I just feel that New Zealand are far too strong, they have depth and quality all over the field, every player has put in a shift so far and have impressed, Dagg and Kaino especially. Still no Kieran Read of course, but with the lack of quality in the French back row compared to New Zealand's, I think the All Blacks won't have any trouble in that department. Picamoles and Bonnaire despite being good players, are nowhere near good enough to start, maybe one should but Hari and Lakafia offer something more in my view.

Totally disagree about the french backrow.. there is huge talent available to France here. Picamoles is in better form than Harinordoquy atm who is considered one of the world's best 8s. He is world class in my view and should be definitely be starting. Dusautoir last world cup outplayed McCaw, I don't see how they aren't go have any trouble in that department. If they have that attitude well they are going to be in for a surprise, but I don't think they will be that naive.

What a game! I respect the French side and they are one of my favourite teams to watch in world rugby simply for the anticipation of seeing them play something special. Unfortunately they have played something special against us twice in World Cups but this is our backyard now and we won´t want to give up the easiest quarter final. Lots to play for and every week we´ve had a special game (Sa vs Wales, Australia vs Ireland) and I have my money on this one being a cracker too.

Agree entirely Rory that Read´s absence is a huge loss. Vito doesn´t cut it for me and that French backrow is impressive. The battle will be won up front and a few players in the AB pack not quite on top of their form. Hopefully Carter will pull through the match. Certainly confident but certainly nervous at the same time.

kia kaha

TheGreyGhost wrote:Thanks for that contribution GW. Referees play a huge part in setting the environment for an exciting flowing contest (when England aren't involved).

Interesting that we've again been landed with a the worst northern hemisphere ref in the tournament for our clash with France.

personnally think he's one of the best NH referee (in terms of being consistently ok, maybe never fantastic but also never horrible and unfair) but again am a bit biaised as the french tend to like him coz he tends to give an advantage to the dominant scrum (he also speaks french fluently which helps). at least it's never a lottery with him at scrum time unlike with other refs. but then again, its your right to prefer barnes or Clancy...

(thinking about it am not to sure if am not describing Poite rather than Rolland style of refereing so apologies if that's the case)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10753239

World Cup's $460 French farce

the real farce is the cost of tickets!
what did they expect when they bought them, France showing with Dominici, Jauzion and co? if so, well they have been conned by some marketing trick.

all article based on some conspiracy theory that borders on ignorance.

some really poor journalism here , a so called rugby writer says "Lievremont's Saturday team left out his entire first choice front row, one top lock and key back row man Imanol Harinordoquy" .... front row: one injured and 2 out of game time and form, top lock?? only worldclass lock is maybe nallet and he's playing, harinordoquy ?? he has been average so far and not ML fault if we has better than him.

so he puts a SH at 10 but his back up 10 is out for injury and his replacement has just arrived.

did ticket holder complained when NZ played some players out of position in 2007?

some really poor and lazy journalism I agree.

"left out his entire first choice front row" - Mas is injured so could hardly start! Seervat has started 2 in 2 and after time out of the game needs a break, not as if Szarsiewski is a terrible option. Would have liked to see Barcella in there though.

"one top lock" - assuming he's refering to Julien Pierre, who's been starting most games recently. Pape is a better lock though IMO so very pleased about this one.

"Harinardoquy" - as you say been out of form. Bonnaire and Picamoles played well against Japan, hence are in the team.

Parra at ten - FTD has been poor so far, and France were much better against Japan when Parra came on at ten. With Doussain having barely arrived, there's no way he can start (or even play) yet, so apart from Traille/Estebanez who are awful FHs there's no other valid option.

NO mention of the team from 11 to 14 which is as strong as I've seen from Lievremont for some time...

Shoddy, amateurish journalism I'm afraid, determined to find far-fetched conspiracy theories from somewhere. This is Lièvremont's strongest side, and I actually agree with most of it!

BRING IT ON!!!!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Hopefully Carter will pull through the match.

Bit strange really. Carters happily goalkicking at practice which if anything puts more strain on any back problem than anything else other than full contact, which he avoided yesterday. These injuries to Mils, Dagg, Read and McCaw and carter just sound like things that might keep coming back over the next few weeks.

I’m a France supporter and my only concern with the team is Traille at full back. I’ve seen him play full back twice for France, against England in 2007, where it was his mistake that let Lewsey in for a try in the first few minutes and against Japan where he dropped the catch that allowed Canada’s first try.

He’s not a full back or a fly half, he’s a centre and a crap one at that.

I think the New Zealand journalists are just looking for something to moan about to be honest.

Hi Jaysus. Yes I think so to. When I saw the team I was rapt. It didn't help when I thought I heard last night one of the players saying they didn't want to win.

Not saying Taylorman that his back injury is dodgy. Will be just good for his confidence and the likes of Dagg and McCaw (it seems Mils is for the scrap heap before his 100th cap. No room for sentiment in a World Cup. Hope that loss of sound judgement and experience doesn´t come back to bite us but good in a way to see form being rewarded) to pull through a tough game with no injury worries.

Also Read is back in training and hope he makes an appearance in the Canada game and gets some much needed match fitness.

I am going to be looking at the scrums with great interest. Our scrum has been a strength in recent years but in recent months it has looked a bit shaky or at least not as dominant as before. Great opportunity to see where we´re at with a big French pack. Also want to see more aggression at the breakdown. Owen Franks liked the aggression from the Irish. Let´s see him with some controlled aggression too but maintaining the discipline as well.

Just seen the weather forecast. A clear night after a sunny day in Auckland. That´s good for the spectacle of the game. NZ are usually quite handy in the wet but let´s see a dry deck so all facets of the game are tried and tested on the night. Focus will be on Kahui and Dagg to see how they perform, whether Cowan raises his game after feeling the pressure from Ellis and whether some dominance or at least parity can be achieved up front in the set piece and general breakdown.

Dim wrote:France look to be heading down the throwing the game route by playing an entirely new half back pairing of Yachvili and Parra, don't think I've ever seen Parra at 10 before, it could only happen with Lievremont...

Nope - 32 tests for France and none of them at 10.

Lievremont could not be more French if he was wearing a stripey t-shirt, smoking Galloises and carrying a baguette.