Horrible end to a great night! Shocking ref!

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i ve have watched a good dozen times now and it gets worse every time , ortiz took a ko shot flush without even looking at floyd , his mind is ealsewhere and eyes are on cortez hopeing for some guidence on what to do next ! but cortez is looking to the side of the ring ! just shocking ! yes its protect yourself at all times but cortez job is to protect the fighters as wel , if he did say box or fight on his eys and mind should have been on the action , its clear to see ortiz had not have a clue on what was going on , on the other hand floyd did , and without a thought ,left right fight over , floyd took the opportunity for a cheap shot and it paid off , not blameing him he would have won anyway and its good to see the best boxer on the planet back but just feel for ortiz , he lost due to a situation out of his hands ! it has to be the worst piece of refereeing i have ever seen and it ruined a fantastic contest !

How about one of the famous catchweights the commissions love..?

BALTIMORA wrote:How about one of the famous catchweights the commissions love..?

Like I said BALTI some people just dont understand that team Pacquiao doesn't want the fight...You got fists here saying allow random testing when other top sports do it because a lot of people tend to cheat....Ortiz got dominated in the 4th punching thin air does not win you rounds.

Balti, well spotted, that's a glaring omission of mine...I find the catchweights highly annoying. If they are genuinely the only way to make a fight happen then I'm all for it, but of late there have been far too many that are made just to try and gain the psychological advantage, despite the physical advantage being minimal. See Pacquaio vs Cotto.

PBF, take off your Mayweather tinted glasses and watch the 4th again...Ortiz enjoyed his biggest successes of the fight and, like it or not, got through to Mayweather a couple of times.

There is zero evidence that Pacquaio cheats, just some nonsense made up by Malignaggi and Mayweather Sr, two blithering imbeciles that nobody bothers listening to (apart from, seemingly, the die hard Mayweather fans). We all know this fight not happening is due to Mayweather worrying about his unbeaten record (whilst he may believe he would beat Pacquaio, and there is a good chance he would, he also knows that if there is one other capable of beating him, then it is Manny) and also the fact that if Mayweather were to lose his legacy as the best of his generation and one of the ATG's goes up in smoke.

I, like many others, am sick of Mayweather's talking about Pacquaio, and wish he would centre more on fighting him. A good example would be the fact that, recently, Mayweather said 'Pacquaio - you're next', only to then say, when interviewed a week later, that he hadn't said anything of the sort, and that he doesn't need Pacquaio. Make your mind up man!

I think the problem with this fight is not fear so much as egos. Frankly, the whole silly saga is boring me.

Agreed, egos probably play as big a part as any. Let's leave it at that.

Fists of Fury wrote:Balti, well spotted, that's a glaring omission of mine...I find the catchweights highly annoying. If they are genuinely the only way to make a fight happen then I'm all for it, but of late there have been far too many that are made just to try and gain the psychological advantage, despite the physical advantage being minimal. See Pacquaio vs Cotto.

PBF, take off your Mayweather tinted glasses and watch the 4th again...Ortiz enjoyed his biggest successes of the fight and, like it or not, got through to Mayweather a couple of times.

There is zero evidence that Pacquaio cheats, just some nonsense made up by Malignaggi and Mayweather Sr, two blithering imbeciles that nobody bothers listening to (apart from, seemingly, the die hard Mayweather fans). We all know this fight not happening is due to Mayweather worrying about his unbeaten record (whilst he may believe he would beat Pacquaio, and there is a good chance he would, he also knows that if there is one other capable of beating him, then it is Manny) and also the fact that if Mayweather were to lose his legacy as the best of his generation and one of the ATG's goes up in smoke.

I, like many others, am sick of Mayweather's talking about Pacquaio, and wish he would centre more on fighting him. A good example would be the fact that, recently, Mayweather said 'Pacquaio - you're next', only to then say, when interviewed a week later, that he hadn't said anything of the sort, and that he doesn't need Pacquaio. Make your mind up man!

Take your glasses off and watch the round again Mayweather catches Ortiz time and time again no way was that round close...The fight is not happening because your fighter Pacquiao knows once he faces Floyd Mayweather his money making days is over...Bob Arum's cash cow is done.

I think you will find it is the journalists that constantly want to talk about Pacquiao not Floyd Mayweather so get it right just listen to that link I gave you.

Open your eyes and the truth is in front of you fists...Pacquiao is the one to blame not Floyd Mayweather.

Sorry mate, I've tried to put together a balanced argument and you clearly don't even want to open your eyes to it. I'm through with discussing the matter with those that let their 'affection' for one fighter completely cloud their judgement.

Fists of Fury wrote:Sorry mate, I've tried to put together a balanced argument and you clearly don't even want to open your eyes to it. I'm through with discussing the matter with those that let their 'affection' for one fighter completely cloud their judgement.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/423320-arum-called-out-for-lying-by-top-rank-insider-days-before-ellerbe

You really believe Bob Arum?

The genius of PBF wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Balti, well spotted, that's a glaring omission of mine...I find the catchweights highly annoying. If they are genuinely the only way to make a fight happen then I'm all for it, but of late there have been far too many that are made just to try and gain the psychological advantage, despite the physical advantage being minimal. See Pacquaio vs Cotto.

PBF, take off your Mayweather tinted glasses and watch the 4th again...Ortiz enjoyed his biggest successes of the fight and, like it or not, got through to Mayweather a couple of times.

There is zero evidence that Pacquaio cheats, just some nonsense made up by Malignaggi and Mayweather Sr, two blithering imbeciles that nobody bothers listening to (apart from, seemingly, the die hard Mayweather fans). We all know this fight not happening is due to Mayweather worrying about his unbeaten record (whilst he may believe he would beat Pacquaio, and there is a good chance he would, he also knows that if there is one other capable of beating him, then it is Manny) and also the fact that if Mayweather were to lose his legacy as the best of his generation and one of the ATG's goes up in smoke.

I, like many others, am sick of Mayweather's talking about Pacquaio, and wish he would centre more on fighting him. A good example would be the fact that, recently, Mayweather said 'Pacquaio - you're next', only to then say, when interviewed a week later, that he hadn't said anything of the sort, and that he doesn't need Pacquaio. Make your mind up man!

Take your glasses off and watch the round again Mayweather catches Ortiz time and time again no way was that round close...The fight is not happening because your fighter Pacquiao knows once he faces Floyd Mayweather his money making days is over...Bob Arum's cash cow is done.

I think you will find it is the journalists that constantly want to talk about Pacquiao not Floyd Mayweather so get it right just listen to that link I gave you.

Open your eyes and the truth is in front of you fists...Pacquiao is the one to blame not Floyd Mayweather.

Since when did Pacquiao start asking for blood tests or he wouldn't fight somebody

PBF - we have been over this ground before, have we not? If I remember rightly, it didn't end too well, so if you want to discuss the matter then at least do so in a balanced and debateable way. Don't dismiss the opinions of others.

The Galveston Giant wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Balti, well spotted, that's a glaring omission of mine...I find the catchweights highly annoying. If they are genuinely the only way to make a fight happen then I'm all for it, but of late there have been far too many that are made just to try and gain the psychological advantage, despite the physical advantage being minimal. See Pacquaio vs Cotto.

PBF, take off your Mayweather tinted glasses and watch the 4th again...Ortiz enjoyed his biggest successes of the fight and, like it or not, got through to Mayweather a couple of times.

There is zero evidence that Pacquaio cheats, just some nonsense made up by Malignaggi and Mayweather Sr, two blithering imbeciles that nobody bothers listening to (apart from, seemingly, the die hard Mayweather fans). We all know this fight not happening is due to Mayweather worrying about his unbeaten record (whilst he may believe he would beat Pacquaio, and there is a good chance he would, he also knows that if there is one other capable of beating him, then it is Manny) and also the fact that if Mayweather were to lose his legacy as the best of his generation and one of the ATG's goes up in smoke.

I, like many others, am sick of Mayweather's talking about Pacquaio, and wish he would centre more on fighting him. A good example would be the fact that, recently, Mayweather said 'Pacquaio - you're next', only to then say, when interviewed a week later, that he hadn't said anything of the sort, and that he doesn't need Pacquaio. Make your mind up man!

Take your glasses off and watch the round again Mayweather catches Ortiz time and time again no way was that round close...The fight is not happening because your fighter Pacquiao knows once he faces Floyd Mayweather his money making days is over...Bob Arum's cash cow is done.

I think you will find it is the journalists that constantly want to talk about Pacquiao not Floyd Mayweather so get it right just listen to that link I gave you.

Open your eyes and the truth is in front of you fists...Pacquiao is the one to blame not Floyd Mayweather.

Since when did Pacquiao start asking for blood tests or he wouldn't fight somebody

He fights leftovers, fighters coming off loses, catchweights etc....Pacquiao asked for $10m for every pound over the limit Floyd Mayweather agreed...Whats wrong with asking for random drug tests? In a world where people cheat its only fair to have the best testing for the biggest fight out there...if Pacquiao wanted to fight Floyd Mayweather he would take the drug test simple as.

He fights leftovers, fighters coming off loses, catchweights etc....Pacquiao asked for $10m for every pound over the limit Floyd Mayweather agreed...Whats wrong with asking for random drug tests? In a world where people cheat its only fair to have the best testing for the biggest fight out there...if Pacquiao wanted to fight Floyd Mayweather he would take the drug test simple as.

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But if Mayweather wasn't afraid of losing then he would drop the drug test. He's fought the same opponents as Mayweather of late.

There's no excuse for either man. Mayweather is only asking for the tests because Pacquiao is or had been refusing them. The catchweight situation with Pacquiao is the same. Unfortunately there is a certain onus on Pacquiao to disprove the allegations against him. His reluctance to do so is extremely persuasive.

To be fair to them both deciding how to best divide up $100+ must be an absolute nightmare. Can fully understand why this has been so tricky for them.

The Galveston Giant wrote:He fights leftovers, fighters coming off loses, catchweights etc....Pacquiao asked for $10m for every pound over the limit Floyd Mayweather agreed...Whats wrong with asking for random drug tests? In a world where people cheat its only fair to have the best testing for the biggest fight out there...if Pacquiao wanted to fight Floyd Mayweather he would take the drug test simple as.

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But if Mayweather wasn't afraid of losing then he would drop the drug test. He's fought the same opponents as Mayweather of late.

Floyd Mayweather wants to help clean up the sport of boxing...Mosley and Ortiz took the test why cant Pacquiao?

Why should Floyd Mayweather drop the test when boxers put their lives on the line...He fought them after Floyd Mayweather beat them up big difference.

If Pacquiao wanted the fight and wasn't afraid he would take the test.

Floyd Mayweather wants to help clean up the sport of boxing...Mosley and Ortiz took the test why cant Pacquiao?

Why should Floyd Mayweather drop the test when boxers put their lives on the line...He fought them after Floyd Mayweather beat them up big difference.

If Pacquiao wanted the fight and wasn't afraid he would take the test.

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If Mayweather wanted the fight and wasn't afraid he wouldn't have invented the test in the first place, surely thats clear, they have both been fighting the same opponents.

The Galveston Giant wrote:Floyd Mayweather wants to help clean up the sport of boxing...Mosley and Ortiz took the test why cant Pacquiao?

Why should Floyd Mayweather drop the test when boxers put their lives on the line...He fought them after Floyd Mayweather beat them up big difference.

If Pacquiao wanted the fight and wasn't afraid he would take the test.

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If Mayweather wanted the fight and wasn't afraid he wouldn't have invented the test in the first place, surely thats clear, they have both been fighting the same opponents.

Like I said he fights the same opponents coming up with poor form and losses already at catchweights BIG difference. Floyd Mayweather wants the fight and wants to help clean up the sport of boxing but Bob Arum and team Pacquiao are trying to twist it around.

Upto people if they want to believe a self confessed liar like Bob Arum.

Asking someone to take the test is totally valid, particularly when you look at ePac's record and jumps in weight over past 5 years.

If there is no issue, then he just has to simply take the test, and call PBF's bluff - not taking the test just arouses suspicions, and it doesnt help that he has Bob Arum speaking on his behalf - he may aswell have Scott McClellan talking for him

Yeah, Mayweather did take a bit of a cheap shot, and at the time I was livid. However, Ortiz started it with a headbutt. His apologising, kissing etc afterwards was just plane embarrassing. He was like a kid out of his depth in there. Cortez was cortez; the worst ref in the business. He has been for some time now. Even before his recent mess ups, I always thought him inconsistant, twitchy, and just downright rubbish as a ref

...as for the pac testing. If Pacquiao is now saying yes he'll take the test, what's the problem floyd? Personally, despite the various arguements, pacquiao was right in not taking the test. Mayweather started the rumours and has tainted his Pac's legacy. Mayweather was on Pac's case to take tests to answer and quash the rumours HE started. Bizarre. Even if he takes the test, do you think that's going to stop??? The post fight press conference is telling. Pacquiao could agree to give him a pint a day, Mayweather will not accept the fight unless Pac shows real signs of slowing down, as he started to do in the Mosely fight.

BritnDub wrote:...as for the pac testing. If Pacquiao is now saying yes he'll take the test, what's the problem floyd? Personally, despite the various arguements, pacquiao was right in not taking the test. Mayweather started the rumours and has tainted his Pac's legacy. Mayweather was on Pac's case to take tests to answer and quash the rumours HE started. Bizarre. Even if he takes the test, do you think that's going to stop??? The post fight press conference is telling. Pacquiao could agree to give him a pint a day, Mayweather will not accept the fight unless Pac shows real signs of slowing down, as he started to do in the Mosely fight.

Pacquaio has not agreed at all despite what he says to media is different from what happens in negotiations...this is just more bs from Bob Arum and team Pacquiao...If he agreed what does he not to do the testing for the Marquez fight to make a point then huh?

Pacquiao tainted his own legacy by refusing them...Pacquiao will not fight Mayweather Bob Arum wants to milk him for all he is worth before feeding him to Floyd Mayweather.

Like I said people can keep believeing the likes of Bob Arum...I am done with this thread.

The genius of PBF wrote:

BritnDub wrote:...as for the pac testing. If Pacquiao is now saying yes he'll take the test, what's the problem floyd? Personally, despite the various arguements, pacquiao was right in not taking the test. Mayweather started the rumours and has tainted his Pac's legacy. Mayweather was on Pac's case to take tests to answer and quash the rumours HE started. Bizarre. Even if he takes the test, do you think that's going to stop??? The post fight press conference is telling. Pacquiao could agree to give him a pint a day, Mayweather will not accept the fight unless Pac shows real signs of slowing down, as he started to do in the Mosely fight.

Pacquaio has not agreed at all despite what he says to media is different from what happens in negotiations...this is just more bs from Bob Arum and team Pacquiao...If he agreed what does he not to do the testing for the Marquez fight to make a point then huh?

Pacquiao tainted his own legacy by refusing them...Pacquiao will not fight Mayweather Bob Arum wants to milk him for all he is worth before feeding him to Floyd Mayweather.

Like I said people can keep believeing the likes of Bob Arum...I am done with this thread.

PBF, I know you have your favourite in this scenario but you can't deny that neither party is free from blame.

Hmmm, you're done with this thread. Nevermind, I'll answer your points anyway.
1) Pacquiao is probably adhering to all the usual test for boxers for JMM. You saying he needs to prove himself to Floyd in that fight as well as accepting testing for a Mayweather fight. Should he do Mayweathers ironing, and clean his cars while he's at it?? If Pac IS accepting testing, then what has JMM fight got to do with it?
2) Pacquiao refused to bow to the demands of someone who had tainted his own hard work and achievements by rumour and slander. Pacquiao has gone on to make millions (if the accountants can find it !!!) and remains P4P no 1.
3) Maybe Arum is BS'ing, but Floyd's not exactly Mr Truthful either, so maybe refrain from saying what was said in negotiations that you have no knowledge of.

The genius of PBF wrote:

BritnDub wrote:...as for the pac testing. If Pacquiao is now saying yes he'll take the test, what's the problem floyd? Personally, despite the various arguements, pacquiao was right in not taking the test. Mayweather started the rumours and has tainted his Pac's legacy. Mayweather was on Pac's case to take tests to answer and quash the rumours HE started. Bizarre. Even if he takes the test, do you think that's going to stop??? The post fight press conference is telling. Pacquiao could agree to give him a pint a day, Mayweather will not accept the fight unless Pac shows real signs of slowing down, as he started to do in the Mosely fight.

Pacquaio has not agreed at all despite what he says to media is different from what happens in negotiations...this is just more bs from Bob Arum and team Pacquiao...If he agreed what does he not to do the testing for the Marquez fight to make a point then huh?

Pacquiao tainted his own legacy by refusing them...Pacquiao will not fight Mayweather Bob Arum wants to milk him for all he is worth before feeding him to Floyd Mayweather.

Like I said people can keep believeing the likes of Bob Arum...I am done with this thread.

Irrespective of whether he is trying to milk him, do you not think that a $100m+ superfight is not the pay days of all paydays? thats more than Pac would get for his next 3 fights put together. And even if he loses, there would be another $100m rematch.

You comment makes no sense.

Both camps are full of BS - anyone who says that 1 camp is right and the other is wrong, is very blinkered.

Adam D (Hobo) wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

BritnDub wrote:...as for the pac testing. If Pacquiao is now saying yes he'll take the test, what's the problem floyd? Personally, despite the various arguements, pacquiao was right in not taking the test. Mayweather started the rumours and has tainted his Pac's legacy. Mayweather was on Pac's case to take tests to answer and quash the rumours HE started. Bizarre. Even if he takes the test, do you think that's going to stop??? The post fight press conference is telling. Pacquiao could agree to give him a pint a day, Mayweather will not accept the fight unless Pac shows real signs of slowing down, as he started to do in the Mosely fight.

Pacquaio has not agreed at all despite what he says to media is different from what happens in negotiations...this is just more bs from Bob Arum and team Pacquiao...If he agreed what does he not to do the testing for the Marquez fight to make a point then huh?

Pacquiao tainted his own legacy by refusing them...Pacquiao will not fight Mayweather Bob Arum wants to milk him for all he is worth before feeding him to Floyd Mayweather.

Like I said people can keep believeing the likes of Bob Arum...I am done with this thread.

Irrespective of whether he is trying to milk him, do you not think that a $100m+ superfight is not the pay days of all paydays? thats more than Pac would get for his next 3 fights put together. And even if he loses, there would be another $100m rematch.

You comment makes no sense.

Both camps are full of BS - anyone who says that 1 camp is right and the other is wrong, is very blinkered.

Adam for someone who is only a casual follower of the sport your last sentence is about as sensible a thing as has been said on this debate in many a year. Multi million pound deals are negotiated daily in other businesses with none of this fuss, too many egos and self interests in this one, they should all be locked in a room and not allowed out until a deal is agreed, because the constant soap opera BS is embarassing and nobody comes out of this with even a scrap of credit.

... I'd have loved Pacquiao to have accepted testing as I wanted to see the fight, but I can also see why he didn't.

As for the weight classes, have you actually SEEN how thin pac was in his early career. By all accounts, he was still pretty much living rough with poor diet etc. THat's different to someone like Roy Jones who was ripped at middleweight, and then pretty ripped as a heavy weight. Personally, I think HE was on something (and I'm not talking about the whole Ripped Fuel debate.) Also, Holyfield (as much as I hate to say as he was a favourite fighter of mine) would seem to have had 'help'. But Pac doesn't seem to follow these examples

One of the main bones of contention as far as critics of Pacquiao are concerned is the seeming disparities between his excuses for not wanting to submit to the testing. None of these little incidental things does his credibility any favours. Only a fool would think Mayweather was acting out of any kind of altruism in demanding blood testing, but Pacquiao seems to have no real, VIABLE reason for his continued resistance.

I am new to this site, but felt I had to say my piece about the Mayweather v Ortiz fight.

I couldn't quite understand what Ortiz was thinking, he had a reasonable amount of success in the 4th, backed Floyd up & landed some decent shots, I thought it was a pretty even round, & then he headbutts him, weird! Ortiz comes across to me as a strange guy, all the kissing & cuddling was bizarre to say the least, yeah touch gloves, but get on with it, the occasion was way to big for him. I don't think he is cut out to be a boxer, he has reasonable skill but not the mindset. Yeah, he did well against Berto, I always thought Berto was overrated though.

Mayweather's response was cheap, but he had just been nutted in the mouth, I would be pretty p!ssed off & more so with Ortiz kissing & cuddling me! The 'protect yourself at all times' does come into play. As for Cortez, how the hell is he still refereering? He is getting work on his long history in the game. He did not have control of the situation & was clearly unaware of what was happening at that point, as he wasn't looking. It's not the first time he has had a stinker, it's time he called it a day, he does have a duty of care towards the boxers, which was missing.

I'm not a Mayweather fan but can't deny he is the best at the moment. If he & Pacman ever fight, as much as i'd love to be wrong, I can't see Manny beating him, but thats for another topic.

Yep, well hopefully the noises being made that he's accepting testing are true (yes I know it's Arum, but just maybe he actually wants to sort this fight out). Pacquiao's not getting younger, and neither is Floyd. Also, I think both are showing signs of slowing (though are still far ahead of the rest).

BritnDub wrote:Yep, well hopefully the noises being made that he's accepting testing are true (yes I know it's Arum, but just maybe he actually wants to sort this fight out). Pacquiao's not getting younger, and neither is Floyd. Also, I think both are showing signs of slowing (though are still far ahead of the rest).

Probably more of a factor is that neither is Arum, although I'm sure he's figuring out a way to take it with him.

after floyd landed the left hook ortiz had enough time to put his gloves up and move back.instead he did nothing which allowed floyd to land the straight right.
also if you watch the fight again youll see ortiz use his head in rounds 2 and 3 aswell.
bottom line is ortiz should have known mayweather was angry and was eager to get him back,so he should have been alert and kept his gaurd up.

tunes666 wrote:It was a cheep shot, simple as.

no sportsmanship at all.

he could see full well that Ortiz was not defending him self or fighting and he smacked him twice. for me that's a cheep shot regardless ...

And he wont fight Pacman because he knows he is one of the only boxers out there who is a threat to him... why not box him?, huge money, huge credibility... and if he supposedly thinks he has his number then what's the problem?

DUCKING.

it was manny who refused to take the test not floyd.so how exactly is floyd ducking manny?
if manny had of agreed to take the test like ortiz and mosley,and then mayweather had of pulled out, then that would of been mayweather ducking.
mayweather is technically and defensively the best boxer,plus he's the best counter puncher.he also believes he's the best,so why would he be scared to fight manny?manny struggled to land shots on mosley because mosley had half decent movement,and that frustrated manny.he also struggled against marquez because marquez was a technically better boxer.manny performs at his best against boxers who are easy to hit.
manny cannot outbox floyd.

The genius of PBF wrote:

Floyd Mayweather wants to help clean up the sport of boxing...Mosley and Ortiz took the test why cant Pacquiao?

Why should Floyd Mayweather drop the test when boxers put their lives on the line...He fought them after Floyd Mayweather beat them up big difference.

If Pacquiao wanted the fight and wasn't afraid he would take the test.

Firstly on the initial post, can't see how Floyd can be forgiven for this on the basis of what Ortitz did.

Ortitz was completely out of order with the headbutt, he was docked a point and could have (probably should have) been disqualified there and then.

At this point though the ref took control of the fight and punsihed him with the points, Floyd may have been 'legal' in what he did but he was far from sportsmanly. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Which takes me to the post above, it does seem that Floyd thinks he is bigger than the sport. The sports rules aren't good enough for him they need to be changed, the referee's punishment wasn't good enough for him he wanted his own retribution.

Mosley and Ortitz took the tests because of money. Would they have taken the tests if Floyd had suggested that they were on PED's?

Pacman doesn't need Floyd and Floyd doesn't need Pacman. They are both used to people giving them anything they want for a fight and I can't see either ego letting the other get the upper hand until the fight is no longer relevant.