Would Ireland really prefer to play Wales?

First topic message reminder :

Don't get me wrong, the historic win against Australia was vitally important. It has given us so much confidence and belief. But as far as the 'advantage' of topping the group goes, i'm not sure its an advantage at all. I honestly am worried about playing wales. They are on fine form and they have the advantage of familiarity. With SA only beating them 17-16, are we really much better off if we top the group in the short term?

Also, it would annoy me so much more if Wales beat us to the semis than if SA beat us to get there.

But sure... none of those options are gona happen!

biltongbek wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:A lot of drivel is being written in this post by over emotional Cents from both sides - Indeed, the only balanced and sensible statement on this thread to date is the one posted by McKay highlighting the obvious fact that, "George North would eat your whole team..." - Can we please cut out the emotional staff and keep to the sensible ones such as the George one.

So how's that mancrush going RubyGuby?

Does George know about it?

Yep, he knows about it - and a restraining order has been issued by the courts!

mckay1402 wrote:By the way you can have Andy Powell if you like.

er.. cough...we're good thanks....

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think both Ireland and Wales have a lot of talent atm, I see a bright future for us both.

The real question is, would you swap any of your players for any of the English ones?

It's truly amazing what a good performance does for a side. Irish fans were bemoaning their recent performances and poor results before beating Aus and Wales have hardly been lighting up the world even though they managed a good defeat by SA. Now both sides are full of world-beaters.

Nobody ever seems to want to swap any of theirs for English players and English players never get in a world VX

Flippin' Celts!

PS You'll be supporting the Scots against us next. Oh, you are. Grrrr.

Given that the other option would be SA, most certainly. The Boks improved in their second match, Wales didn't look as good in their second

Should be a good, close match, but I'd back Ireland's extra experience and nous to see them triumph in the pressure of a knock out game.

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Nobody ever seems to want to swap any of theirs for English players and English players never get in a world VX

Flippin' Celts!

PS You'll be supporting the Scots against us next. Oh, you are. Grrrr.

don't feel alone bud, we have an unknown guy by the name of Jaque fourie, plays for arguably one of the least creative back lines in world rugby (or so I'm told), has scored 31 tries in 63 tests, but yet he always comes in second or third.

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Nobody ever seems to want to swap any of theirs for English players and English players never get in a world VX

Flippin' Celts!

PS You'll be supporting the Scots against us next. Oh, you are. Grrrr.

If it makes you feel any better we'll take Courtney Lawes and Manu Tuilagi of your hands

Come on Scotland!

Come on youre seriously suggesting that Wales would be a preferable draw to SA on the grounds that Wales didnt lose as heavily to SA as they usually do?

biltongbek wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Nobody ever seems to want to swap any of theirs for English players and English players never get in a world VX

Flippin' Celts!

PS You'll be supporting the Scots against us next. Oh, you are. Grrrr.

don't feel alone bud, we have an unknown guy by the name of Jaque fourie, plays for arguably one of the least creative back lines in world rugby (or so I'm told), has scored 31 tries in 63 tests, but yet he always comes in second or third.

Fourie? The 'english' replacement 7?

biltongbek wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Nobody ever seems to want to swap any of theirs for English players and English players never get in a world VX

Flippin' Celts!

PS You'll be supporting the Scots against us next. Oh, you are. Grrrr.

don't feel alone bud, we have an unknown guy by the name of Jaque fourie, plays for arguably one of the least creative back lines in world rugby (or so I'm told), has scored 31 tries in 63 tests, but yet he always comes in second or third.

For the record, Fourie has been my favourite centre for the past few years. I think he is without doubt the best 13 in the world

biltongbek wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Nobody ever seems to want to swap any of theirs for English players and English players never get in a world VX

Flippin' Celts!

PS You'll be supporting the Scots against us next. Oh, you are. Grrrr.

don't feel alone bud, we have an unknown guy by the name of Jaque fourie, plays for arguably one of the least creative back lines in world rugby (or so I'm told), has scored 31 tries in 63 tests, but yet he always comes in second or third.

It's a conspiracy! Still, I'm sure all his world cup winner's medal keeps him warm at night

As a passionate Welshman I would take Lawes and Foden off your hands anyday.

COME ON WALES
COME ON SCOTLAND
COME ON IRELAND

COME ON THE CELTS!!!

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:A lot of drivel is being written in this post by over emotional Cents from both sides - Indeed, the only balanced and sensible statement on this thread to date is the one posted by McKay highlighting the obvious fact that, "George North would eat your whole team..." - Can we please cut out the emotional staff and keep to the sensible ones such as the George one.

So how's that mancrush going RubyGuby?

Does George know about it?

Yep, he knows about it - and a restraining order has been issued by the courts!

That's right Bilton - they had to restrain young George from shaking my hand after the match - It took all the New Zealand Army (that's about 3 then), Police, Firemen, a dozen Maoris and Kiri Te Kanawa - George was in tears

Poor George, you got to feel for the man.

SafeAsMilk wrote:
It's truly amazing what a good performance does for a side. Irish fans were bemoaning their recent performances and poor results before beating Aus and Wales have hardly been lighting up the world even though they managed a good defeat by SA. Now both sides are full of world-beaters.

Nobody ever seems to want to swap any of theirs for English players and English players never get in a world VX

Flippin' Celts!

PS You'll be supporting the Scots against us next. Oh, you are. Grrrr.

Haha I was only joking I have always thought Ireland is full of world beaters, just they never proved it out on the pitch! Still have a lot to prove.

I actually think England have some great players coming into maturity this world cup also. I think it's funny how MJ was slated for his selection of Haskell before the six nations, and now he has really stepped into the number 8 position. Tuilangi looks like he could be a good player, however good old Nevin Spence taught him a lesson not long ago

Comfort wrote:

biltongbek wrote:don't feel alone bud, we have an unknown guy by the name of Jaque fourie, plays for arguably one of the least creative back lines in world rugby (or so I'm told), has scored 31 tries in 63 tests, but yet he always comes in second or third.

Fourie? The 'english' replacement 7?

See, I told you he was unknown.

biltongbek wrote:

Comfort wrote:

biltongbek wrote:don't feel alone bud, we have an unknown guy by the name of Jaque fourie, plays for arguably one of the least creative back lines in world rugby (or so I'm told), has scored 31 tries in 63 tests, but yet he always comes in second or third.

Fourie? The 'english' replacement 7?

See, I told you he was unknown.

I jest of course, we all know that Fourie isnt english.

this other lad you speak of though, I actually named him as one of my predictions for top-try-scorer of the world cup. to be fair, that same day i thought we could potentially play shane at fullback and brew on the wing against Samoa.

I have these days

Can't see Ireland putting in another performance like the Australian game in the quarter final. Think we'll see them back to their 6Ns form.

Also, if (and it's still an if at this stage) Wales do qualify and get Ireland, I think it will be a God awful game. It'll be like the game at the MS six months ago, lots of kicking, lots of nerves, both team trying not to lose the knock out game rather than going out to win it. Then, whoever comes out on top of the 'you kick a penalty, we kick a penalty' back and forth around the 50th minute will realise they might be onto a bit of a hiding, and decide to play a bit. Suddenly the game will open up, and it's all to play for and even more jittery than before.

A poster said Ireland will get the steam in the scrum and breakdown; couldn't disagree more. Feel Adam's performance against Samoa was a blip on an impressive record, and, if Lydiate is fit, with Warburton as well, we have the fetcher you don't. I'd also say Ireland will have the better backs; Wales have offered very little out wide so far, and, unless it's broken field and Shane or Hook finds a mismatch, I don't see that changing. It'll be a narrow game from Wales, and Ireland should realise that they would do well to move it wide if they want to win the match.

Ireland showed the way according to All Blacks
James Mortimer - (20/09/2011)

After watching Ireland shock Investec Tri Nations champions Australia over the weekend, the All Blacks have said that the men in green have shown the blueprint to beat any team.

Ireland defeated the Wallabies 15-6 in a major boilover that technically sends them to the All Blacks side of the draw, with seeding dictating that the Bledisloe Cup rivals will now face each other in the semi-finals.

Assistant coach Wayne Smith said that Ireland played a game that the All Blacks hadn’t seen so far in the World Cup.

"The physicality of their game was way up compared to what we've experienced so we've got to get that really quickly," he said.

Ireland’s game wasn’t anything unique, but showed a time honoured plan that again proved that physicality was king.

"They've issued a blueprint for rugby in showing that nothing changes,” Smith said.

“If you win up front and you win the gain line and you win the collisions, then you're probably going to win the game.

He said that the strategy employed by Ireland was not only applicable to the Wallabies, but to any team in world rugby.

"I don't think it's a blueprint to beat southern hemisphere teams, it's a blueprint to beat anyone,” he said.

"They were exceptional. I don't know if too many teams would have beaten them on the day with that intensity.”

All Blacks prop Ben Franks was also an interested observer during Ireland’s boilover, saying that they nullified Australia and hurt them during the set piece engagements.

"Ireland had that plan and it worked, they stopped Australia and they've got really good backs," he said.

"When you play a team, if you can take away their set-piece you'll take away their strike, you'll take away their ability to score points.

"Ireland will be on a real high and they'll be using their scrum as a weapon from now on."

http://www.allblacks.com/news/17512/Ireland-showed-the-way-according-to-All-Blacks

miaow wrote:Can't see Ireland putting in another performance like the Australian game in the quarter final. Think we'll see them back to their 6Ns form.

Also, if (and it's still an if at this stage) Wales do qualify and get Ireland, I think it will be a God awful game. It'll be like the game at the MS six months ago, lots of kicking, lots of nerves, both team trying not to lose the knock out game rather than going out to win it. Then, whoever comes out on top of the 'you kick a penalty, we kick a penalty' back and forth around the 50th minute will realise they might be onto a bit of a hiding, and decide to play a bit. Suddenly the game will open up, and it's all to play for and even more jittery than before.

A poster said Ireland will get the steam in the scrum and breakdown; couldn't disagree more. Feel Adam's performance against Samoa was a blip on an impressive record, and, if Lydiate is fit, with Warburton as well, we have the fetcher you don't. I'd also say Ireland will have the better backs; Wales have offered very little out wide so far, and, unless it's broken field and Shane or Hook finds a mismatch, I don't see that changing. It'll be a narrow game from Wales, and Ireland should realise that they would do well to move it wide if they want to win the match.

You mean the refs will revert back to penalising Ireland the way they did in the 6Ns for not releasing and the poor reffing of the scrum?

No, back to the directionless, mistake-ridden and poor rugby Ireland played in the 6N.

Would love to see Ireland and Wales both play at their best in the quarter final. Show Celtic rugby at its best on the world stage. Ireland would be favourites in my mind. Magners League, Heineken Cup or Six Nations, Irish teams have the edge over Welsh ones. It's not totally one sided or anything, but Ireland do have the edge.

The Irish are also raised on gritty knockout rugby. Four Heineken Cup wins in five(edit: sorry thats 6 years just to be accurate) years will hopefully stand to us in the heat of battle, even though this is obviously a higher level.

Sin é wrote:

miaow wrote:Can't see Ireland putting in another performance like the Australian game in the quarter final. Think we'll see them back to their 6Ns form.

Also, if (and it's still an if at this stage) Wales do qualify and get Ireland, I think it will be a God awful game. It'll be like the game at the MS six months ago, lots of kicking, lots of nerves, both team trying not to lose the knock out game rather than going out to win it. Then, whoever comes out on top of the 'you kick a penalty, we kick a penalty' back and forth around the 50th minute will realise they might be onto a bit of a hiding, and decide to play a bit. Suddenly the game will open up, and it's all to play for and even more jittery than before.

A poster said Ireland will get the steam in the scrum and breakdown; couldn't disagree more. Feel Adam's performance against Samoa was a blip on an impressive record, and, if Lydiate is fit, with Warburton as well, we have the fetcher you don't. I'd also say Ireland will have the better backs; Wales have offered very little out wide so far, and, unless it's broken field and Shane or Hook finds a mismatch, I don't see that changing. It'll be a narrow game from Wales, and Ireland should realise that they would do well to move it wide if they want to win the match.

You mean the refs will revert back to penalising Ireland the way they did in the 6Ns for not releasing and the poor reffing of the scrum?

Yeah because the refs were definitely the reason we were poor

Feckless,

I would say they would be slight faves due to fact they beat Australia whilst we lost to SA.

That said our Regions have never won a HC but that tends to mean nothing when these to play in the 6 Nations and generally the games are close with penalties or drop goals winning it.

As said before I just hope the first choice back rows are all fit as that will be great battle.

True bedford. Once the Welsh pull on the red jersey they can be greater than the sum of their regions. Ireland often achieve less than their provinces. I do think the Heineken Cup wins are helpful psychologically though. When Sexton was missing kicks against Australia the Irish didn't drop the heads. The players have real experience of digging out a victory no matter what.

miaow wrote:No, back to the directionless, mistake-ridden and poor rugby Ireland played in the 6N.

miaow - Ireland gave away 16 penalties to Italy (first game in 6Ns). 6 of those were scrum ones. By the last game (England) it was down to 8 (2 were for the scrum).

Thank god we won't have Poitre reffing our matches in the world cup.

MBTGOG wrote:

Sin é wrote:

miaow wrote:Can't see Ireland putting in another performance like the Australian game in the quarter final. Think we'll see them back to their 6Ns form.

Also, if (and it's still an if at this stage) Wales do qualify and get Ireland, I think it will be a God awful game. It'll be like the game at the MS six months ago, lots of kicking, lots of nerves, both team trying not to lose the knock out game rather than going out to win it. Then, whoever comes out on top of the 'you kick a penalty, we kick a penalty' back and forth around the 50th minute will realise they might be onto a bit of a hiding, and decide to play a bit. Suddenly the game will open up, and it's all to play for and even more jittery than before.

A poster said Ireland will get the steam in the scrum and breakdown; couldn't disagree more. Feel Adam's performance against Samoa was a blip on an impressive record, and, if Lydiate is fit, with Warburton as well, we have the fetcher you don't. I'd also say Ireland will have the better backs; Wales have offered very little out wide so far, and, unless it's broken field and Shane or Hook finds a mismatch, I don't see that changing. It'll be a narrow game from Wales, and Ireland should realise that they would do well to move it wide if they want to win the match.

You mean the refs will revert back to penalising Ireland the way they did in the 6Ns for not releasing and the poor reffing of the scrum?

Yeah because the refs were definitely the reason we were poor

Well, they were penalising us a lot because they couldn't get their heads around the gang tackle. I believe Kidney sought clarification from the IRB about it.

Ireland's provinces have been not short of some mighty fine foreign players for a while whilst Wales' regions have had a few has-beens or never weres.Very few Irish fells would get into our side and vice versa.All on the day.

Twelve Irish players started the Heineken Cup final for Leinster. That's twelve players with big knockout cup experience in the pocket, no matter what Nacewa, Hines and Strauss did. All I'm saying is that experience of winning multiple quarter finals, semi finals and finals will be helpful to the Irish squad in the heat of a tough knockout cup match, when composure is required.

There are many Welsh players I wish were Irish. At the moment we probably need a 12 most. So I'd love if Roberts was Irish.

We need a fullback but you havent got one either!

Will Wales unravel against Fiji though???

orb wrote: Will Wales unravel against Fiji though???

No

Sin é wrote:

miaow wrote:No, back to the directionless, mistake-ridden and poor rugby Ireland played in the 6N.

miaow - Ireland gave away 16 penalties to Italy (first game in 6Ns). 6 of those were scrum ones. By the last game (England) it was down to 8 (2 were for the scrum).

Thank god we won't have Poitre reffing our matches in the world cup.

Utterly pointless comparing what was a very poor performance against Italy, which you were lucky to win, with what was, for me, my favourite rugby performance of last season. Against England you were absolutely superb, and penalty counts are useless as a gauge of how good the ref was; England conceded penalties because they couldn't handle the pace, intensity and skill of the Irish team (from 1 to 15), and you concewded against Italy because you were struggling. I also believe the England performance was better than the Australia game; if the rain hadn't come down, and mistakes/consolidating the win hadn't slipped into the Irish game, you could have reached 40 points against them. It was an utter hammering, whereas the Aussie game was a solid, composed 80 minutes of rugby, which Ireland found themselves on top of in the final quarter. The England game, Ireland were clearly on top from the first minute.

It's a good point to raise about Fiji. It will be a tight game, much more like Wales v Samoa than SA v Fiji.

However, if we do go through, I think that, because Ireland have produced a world class performance and won, they won't play as well again. Alright, this is just meaningless speculation, and it may not matter as much as the fact that Ireland have a very good record against Wales, and always win the tight games (often with a ROG drop goal after SJ has dropped us in front, and I wouldn't rule it out again), but I still feel it will be difficult to get up mentally again to such an extent for Ireland.

As mentioned though, these two teams are pretty much equally matched. I still think Wales have two games to improve the backs because, at present, we wouldn't score a try against Ireland. It's a tantalising prospect, as it's a game both teams and their fans feel they can win, whereas that might not be the case against a SANZAR nation. I'll end with this though; Ireland still have to play Italy, and Wales Fiji. They've both played two games, and there have been upsets. They still have two games to play. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, we all know where that can get us...

orb wrote: Will Wales unravel against Fiji though???

Possibly the score is still 0-0, but Fiji have never been Samoa for us, and Fiji are in a mess at the moment.
One lucky win in 2007, when everything that could of gone wrong did go wrong. Stephen Jones missed nearly all his kicks the Ref let Fiji get away with murder, several late / dangerous tackles went unpunished, in fact they only had a player carded when their flanker kneed Stephen Jones in the groin.
Luckily with Wayne Barnes as ref he won't tolerate that behaviour from them.
I think this Wales team is no where near as fragile as the 2007 one, they have character and will dog out a win against a weaker nation if they need to, though Fiji have a habbit of giving up and collapsing at the moment so lets hope they do it against us.

AlynDavies wrote:

orb wrote: Will Wales unravel against Fiji though???

Possibly the score is still 0-0, but Fiji have never been Samoa for us, and Fiji are in a mess at the moment.

Really. Didn't they just draw with you at Millenium last year? They looked ok then.

But I agree Wales look really good at the moment. Ireland seem to have taken the accolades but with the SA and Samoa matches I'd rate Wales just as good, if not better. They'd probably be glad to be just under the radar for now, as are NZ with all this excitement going on.

Perhaps both our feathers will plume a lttle bit later, more when it really counts

miaow wrote:

Utterly pointless comparing what was a very poor performance against Italy, which you were lucky to win, with what was, for me, my favourite rugby performance of last season. Against England you were absolutely superb, and penalty counts are useless as a gauge of how good the ref was; England conceded penalties because they couldn't handle the pace, intensity and skill of the Irish team (from 1 to 15), and you concewded against Italy because you were struggling. I also believe the England performance was better than the Australia game; if the rain hadn't come down, and mistakes/consolidating the win hadn't slipped into the Irish game, you could have reached 40 points against them. It was an utter hammering, whereas the Aussie game was a solid, composed 80 minutes of rugby, which Ireland found themselves on top of in the final quarter. The England game, Ireland were clearly on top from the first minute.

Yea, Ireland's were struggling against Italy. 6 scrum penalties means that your pack are on the back foot and turning over possession. If Ireland's first game was the perfect England game and then disimproved to Italy standard, to finish on a low, I might agree with you. Ireland steadily improved over the competition. Wales only won with a dodgy try and that was a home fixture for them.

Poitre is a shocking ref (Italy game) and as for Kaplan (Wales)
Bryce Lawrence (England & Aus) is a great ref

By the way, the weather was poor for the Aus game, so it wasn't the time to be throwing the ball around.

Taylorman wrote:Really. Didn't they just draw with you at Millenium last year? They looked ok then.

But I agree Wales look really good at the moment. Ireland seem to have taken the accolades but with the SA and Samoa matches I'd rate Wales just as good, if not better. They'd probably be glad to be just under the radar for now, as are NZ with all this excitement going on.

Perhaps both our feathers will plume a lttle bit later, more when it really counts

Oh dear god did you see the side we put out for that Fiji draw?
15 Lee Byrne
14 George North
13 James Hook
12 Andrew Bishop
11 Aled Brew
10 Dan Biggar
9 Richie Rees

1 Paul James
2 Huw Bennett
3 Adam Jones
4 Ian Gough
5 Deiniol Jones
6 Ryan Jones
7 Dan Lydiate
8 Jonathan Thomas

16 Richard Hibbard
17 John Yapp
18 Bradley Davies
19 Toby Faletau
20 Mike Phillips
21 Stephen Jones
22 Tom Shanklin

It is a very experimental team and Fiji only just scraped the draw!

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Also when was the last time Wales won a HCup or got to a semi final.

The O's have done well in the Magners sporadically however.

How many players off each team would the other want?

Ireland:
Bradley Davies (maybe for DOC)
Philips (maybe for Reddan)
Roberts (for Darcy)

Wales:
Rory Best (only in the abscence of el capitain)
POC (any team would want him)
Ferris for Lydiate (probably)
BOD (for J Davies)

Sum of all parts though

scrum: should be an Irish win (due to injuries at the present moment we know of)
lineout: pretty even I'd say
breakdown: Ireland but not as much as I think people would imagine
backplay: Wales

no way mate, i seriously would keep lydiate i think both back row combos are working well and i think the scrum would be even as we did do well against a powerful SA scrum

Sin é wrote:

miaow wrote:

Utterly pointless comparing what was a very poor performance against Italy, which you were lucky to win, with what was, for me, my favourite rugby performance of last season. Against England you were absolutely superb, and penalty counts are useless as a gauge of how good the ref was; England conceded penalties because they couldn't handle the pace, intensity and skill of the Irish team (from 1 to 15), and you concewded against Italy because you were struggling. I also believe the England performance was better than the Australia game; if the rain hadn't come down, and mistakes/consolidating the win hadn't slipped into the Irish game, you could have reached 40 points against them. It was an utter hammering, whereas the Aussie game was a solid, composed 80 minutes of rugby, which Ireland found themselves on top of in the final quarter. The England game, Ireland were clearly on top from the first minute.

Yea, Ireland's were struggling against Italy. 6 scrum penalties means that your pack are on the back foot and turning over possession. If Ireland's first game was the perfect England game and then disimproved to Italy standard, to finish on a low, I might agree with you. Ireland steadily improved over the competition. Wales only won with a dodgy try and that was a home fixture for them.

Poitre is a shocking ref (Italy game) and as for Kaplan (Wales)
Bryce Lawrence (England & Aus) is a great ref

By the way, the weather was poor for the Aus game, so it wasn't the time to be throwing the ball around.

Hmmm, really bizarre that you're sticking with this ref conspiracy. It's got nothing to do with it mate

Wales, despite the try, were the better team in that game. But that's not really the point either.



I don't think I said Ireland should throw it around against Australia? They played the right tactics...

Sin é wrote:
Well, they were penalising us a lot because they couldn't get their heads around the gang tackle. I believe Kidney sought clarification from the IRB about it.

Sin I think you are mistaken. Ireland were not penalised for the gang tackle. They were penalised mainly for not releasing the tackled player. The confusion was that it was the assister or 2nd man in that was being penalised, on several occaisions Rory Best, O'Connell or DOC, because they were competing for the ball. This was legitimate under the old rules but under the new ones they had to show their hands in the air, to emphasis they had released the tackled player before competing as the ref was counting them as assisting tacklers. This confused Ireland as they were not actually the tackler.

Once they realised they had to also show their hands in the air before competing the penalty count went down. I don't recall any penalties for the gang tackle as this is not against the rules.

Rods - I think we are agreeing with each other. I know who was wrongly being penalised. Kidney did bring it to the attention of the IRB and I know it was suggested that they show their hands, but I don't think it happened. I think Kidney/Kiss demonstrated to the IRB/Refs of what was going on, so the refs stopped penalising Ireland for it.

Edit: I remember Sean O'Brien & David Wallace getting penalised for it.

Sorry sin no bother. It's just this maul tackle thing has come back into the spotlight again. To my recollection this was not the cause of our high penalty count in the 6N rather something we intoduced after we were being penalised for competing on the deck.

I actually think we are one of the most disciplined and efficient teams in the world at the breakdown/tackle area and a lot of credit has to go to Kidney, Smal and Kiss for this.

Absolutely Ireland would prefer to play Wales rather than South Africa - are you serious?

I'd still say some are jumping the gun. Wales still have Fiji to overcome (no disrespect to the Namibians) whom we haven't beaten since 2005 and are less likely than ever to lie down for us. Like Samoa, if they get a sniff they're more likely to jump on the opportunity than not and I for one would rather not look beyond them and suffer an identical humiliation to last time.

Likewise, in the unlikely event that Samoa upset SA we're by no means guaranteed safe passage. One step at a time fellas.

Forgot to add that as far as which Irish players I'd pick for Wales if I could would be BOD in place of JD2 just for the Lions combo return and Kearney to settle the fullback conundrum. There are a couple more that'd certainly give me a headache.

Well it would be better than going home