England Team Announced - SEVEN CHANGES...!

First topic message reminder :

15. Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
14. Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)
13. Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
12. Mike Tindall (Gloucester Rugby)
11. Mark Cueto (Sale Sharks)
10. Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
1. Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
2. Steve Thompson (London Wasps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
4. Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers)
5. Tom Palmer (Stade Francais)
6. Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
7. Lewis Moody (Bath Rugby, capt)
8.James Haskell (Ricoh Black Rams).

Replacements:

Lee Mears (Bath Rugby)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Simon Shaw (Unattached)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
Delon Armitage (London Irish)

What can you make of this selection?

Romania haven't shown much ability this world cup. Never a team to be taken too lightly but they are a long way behind England and a few selections in this team relate to that...

One massive one I don't understand though is why on earth is the substandard Richard Wigglesworth in the replacements instead of the incredibly promising and exciting Joe Simpson?

Mark Cueto back into the back three after an injury, Foden and Ashton will enjoy the experience, hopefully getting a few good tries, a great opportunity to show their running skills, lets hope there are plenty of side steps and great angles, maybe a try like in last autumns Eng vs Oz game from Ashton ?

Centers return Manu and Mike, looked a good center partnership against Ireland and probably the first choice one.

Half backs sees Benny and Jonny given a go. Ben Uoungs although better than wigglesworth by a country mile is not on his best form. Does get England moving faster and has a good vision and reading of the game. JW is JW and this is a great opportunity for him to show his attacking flair that he is famous for when playing at Toulon.

Back Row seems a little harsh on Wood to not be in. I think wood croft and Haskel are the top three players and a combo of to 6.5s and an 8/7 in haskell is probably the best weapon england have... but moody is not a bad player at all and if he can find his best form will be a huge asset. also an inspiring captain.

Second row, well Lawes is out and poor old shaw is probably knackered and best saved for the Scots next week.

Front row sees Cole start his third match, Thompson start ahead of Hartley, and Corbisiero ahead of Stevens. I guess England are thinking this will reduce their front five penalty count which was shocking last weekend, and could have been worse...!

Should be a win at a canter for England, you would expect a 40-50 point win again.


Does England know who their best team is or is there still a lot of experimenting going on? There seems to be a lot of the same trying of different combinations within all parts of the team. The only consistent, certain and solid selections seem to be Foden, Ashton, Tuilagi and Cole. Everything else looks up for grabs.

There are a lot of talented players in this England side, but the machine is not as well oiled as it was going into the Six Nations. This Romania match should help grease the necessary areas.

rugbyfan wrote:I'v got the answer! how about put Simpson AND Wigglesworth on the bench! Bring Simpson on if we're losing and Wigglesworth on if Youngs gets injured!

Brilliant why didn't I think of that?

To be fair, this kind of sums it up, it's a bit of a 50-50 call. I would personally take the same decision as MJ, I can see why people would select Simpson - I just wouldn't. At least we can all agree that Youngs starts right?

I agree - its a close call. Maybe if Simpson had been given a bit more time in the warm ups then we could have made a more accurate assessment?

rugbyfan wrote:I agree - its a close call. Maybe if Simpson had been given a bit more time in the warm ups then we could have made a more accurate assessment?

Very good point - He could have at least made an appearance from the bench in one of those matches. At least we would have a better picture of his 'international' ability - as we've all seen what he can do for wasps.

rugbyfan wrote:I agree - its a close call. Maybe if Simpson had been given a bit more time in the warm ups then we could have made a more accurate assessment?

By a bit more I take it you mean any time at all! He was fairly unlucky to get no time whatsoever, I expected a showing off the bench, but yeah, with more to show we could make a better assessment. England need some impact on the bench - I think Stevens and Shaw are great impact players for instance thanks to their ball carrying. Flood could also be an impact sub if Wilko starts.

propdavid_london wrote:

rugbyfan wrote:I agree - its a close call. Maybe if Simpson had been given a bit more time in the warm ups then we could have made a more accurate assessment?

Very good point - He could have at least made an appearance from the bench in one of those matches. At least we would have a better picture of his 'international' ability - as we've all seen what he can do for wasps.

to be fair to MJ he was forced to change his plan once Danny Care got injured - Simpson probably wasn't given game time as he wasn't really in MJ's plans before care's injury

What is Simpson actually better at than Wigglesworth?

Is he a better passer? No. Does he kick better? No. Does he defend better? No.Are his game management skills as good? No. Is he more experienced? No

He can run a bit but he's just like Youngs but not as good.

beshocked wrote:What is Simpson actually better at than Wigglesworth?

Is he a better passer? No. Does he kick better? No. Does he defend better? No.Are his game management skills as good? No. Is he more experienced? No

He can run a bit but he's just like Youngs but not as good.

does he play for sarecens? No

there you go, there's your answer! he he (i am only kidding!)

[quote="beshocked"]What is Simpson actually better at than Wigglesworth?

quote]

making breaks that lead to/set up tries

propdavid_london wrote: we've all seen what he can do for wasps.

Finish mid table and fail to make an impact in Europe?

Interesting selection in that it appears to be pretty much the first choice starting XV (allowing for the absence of Lawes and Easter), but a few of the replacement choices are uninspiring (Wilson, Mears, Wiggy). Obviously Shaw and Wood have to be on the bench, as the only available squad player for 2nd and back rows, and similarly Flood is the only other cover for 10 and 12. Glad to see Armitage included ahead of Bananaman.

Hopefully we'll play well, like we did for about 15 minutes in the 2nd half v Georgia, and should have too much pace and power for the Romanian team (which from what I've seen does not include Tincu in the starting line-up, suggesting that they are giving this one away so as to concentrate their resources on their final match against Georgia).

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

propdavid_london wrote: we've all seen what he can do for wasps.

Finish mid table and fail to make an impact in Europe?

Stand out in a badly performing team!

propdavid_london wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

propdavid_london wrote: we've all seen what he can do for wasps.

Finish mid table and fail to make an impact in Europe?

Stand out in a badly performing team!

So why isnt Varndell in for Ashton :P

Yeha OK joking asied Simpson couldve bene in Youngs' position , didnt he miss out on the place when Youngs first joined the squad through injury? Since Youngs has bene in hes proved worth his place of course. I just think with Care being second choice and a similar strong running SH that Wigglesworth was an obvious 3rd chocie offerings omething different ( a kicking game and experience). Simpson is unlucky that he didnt get the opportunity.

Well I for one will be glad when Care's back. It's only when you look at these troubles now you realise how good we had it with the Care/Youngs duo.

And after all this arguing really wish MJ had just chosen Lee Dickson as third choice!!

Nathan I am not completely one eyed.

Wigglesworth is obviously behind Youngs and probably Care too but he has his pros. Certainly better than Simpson imo.

Also I have hardly been defending Stevens who was appalling against Georgia.

rugbyfan isn't that what the centres, wingers and full backs are for?

If no England fan wants Wigglesworth I would happily have him back at Saracens.

In my opinion a scrum halves job isn't to make breaks. It is to kick well,be resolute in defence, pass well and to have good game management skills. If he can break it's a bonus but you need the fundamentals in place first.

If Simpson fails to break what can he fall back on?

beshocked wrote:Nathan I am not completely one eyed.

In my opinion a scrum halves job isn't to make breaks. It is to kick well,be resolute in defence, pass well and to have good game management skills. If he can break it's a bonus but you need the fundamentals in place first.

If Simpson fails to break what can he fall back on?

No a scrum half should be able to do all those things including make breaks. If a scrum half couldn't kick for toffee you wouldn't play him internationally, why should it be different for making breaks?

Wigglesworth would have made a fine third choice, and is a good second choice. To be honest he's had what 3 games and has played well in two of them ( I think it's that many)

England have so many issues in the forwards it's very difficult to focus on the 9 at the mo.

I am very surprised that Hartley in not in the team at all. including the bench, Thompson deserves his spot im my opinion.Should Mark Cueto actully be startting though? Armatage as done well since he startedIn my opinion

I have been quite critical of England's performances to date and therefore was really looking for some signs to be optimistic prior to all the knock out games. But having seen the Romanian side and that they have rested most of their top side prior to their big game V Georgia exactly what will we learn from this clash? Of course we can only play what is in front of us, but if the opposition is very poor and we run up a cricket score will it really prove that we are learning from the previous games and improving? There are lots of articles on "watershed" meetings and honest internal reviews from within the England camp and I am expecting them to improve big style. But I am not sure this game will really tell us much......we will have to await the Scotland game to truly understand where the England team standard currently is.

But if they don't concede too many penalties I think we will all be happy with that for starters.