Are We Too Harsh on "Quitters"??

No doubt we hate to see someone quit in the ring, but are we not too harsh on somebody who has quit before making us never give them a second chance? There is the saying once a quitter always a quitter but is having a mental limitation not the same as having a physical limitation? Some people can't cope when it gets too tough, I know I wouldn't be able to cope taking shot after shot in a tough fight, no doubt these guys dedicate themselves but they don't know there mental limitations until it's tested making it not really there fault, right?

It depends on the circumstances, if a boxer uses it as an easy way out then we have the right to be harsh on them. Andre Dirrell is a prime example in his fight against Abraham. The moment the fight was brought to him, he used a late punch as an excuse to quit.

On the other aide of the coin... after the Margarito loss, a lot of people were saying Cotto quit. Yet put in to consideration the questionable circumstances a lot of people were harsh on him. Yet you can't accuse the guy of being a quitter, it was that or potentially suffer further damage.

If it were me and I felt I was taking necessary damage and the ref or corner are not doing their job, I think I would have the sense to pull myself from the fight in the hope I could fight another day, as Cotto did.

If I were in the shoes of Dirrell? I would fight on to a good win...

At the end of the day boxing is a sport in which you're going to get hurt. Some people should accept that and if they use excuses to quit, they're letting themselves and the fans who spend more money than most other sports down.

We should be harsh on those who use the excuse, not on those who are sensible enough to say "no more".

boxing is very hard

It is very hard. I wanted to quit in my first bout, didnt in the end but I think when it's going against someone quitting is probably on all their minds to some extent even at the highest level.

my brother was telling me about this guy from my area who is quite "hard" he had his first amatuer fight and wanted the towel thrown in after the first punch...it seperates the men from boys...if the fighting doesn't the training will...

boxing is very hard and while it looks easy, it certainly isn't, the only punch these arm chair specialists have had to the face is when that girl they fancied threw a cup of it over them at the christmas party!

I think that if you criticize them in context of a boxer against his opponent then you probably arent being harsh. If you criticize them and call them cowardly etc in reference of your ability to knock them spark out - then you are not being harsh - just stupid.

ortiz quit against maidana, and seems to have come through it- he got a shot at mayweather

Awfully complex issues, here, and the truth is that none of us knows what flicks the switch to ' quit ' though I would suspect that it is a fighter's mind which gives way before his courage does.

Nothing will ever convince me that Duran was ' afraid ' of Leonard. I believe he was simply afraid of humiliation. Likewise Liston second time out against Ali.

Probably the first time around too Windy. Half fit and starting to get worked over, he surrended to his own pride rather than to Ali. Also, I was wondering if there was a book entitled Liston/Sonny or something like that. I seem to remember reading that Liston was the fittest he had ever been before Ali got ill and had to postpone the second fight. Was quite a comprehensive cover of Listons life - I think it was his wife and his trainer who were being quoted in that part. I distinctly remember the words, "broke Sonny's heart". Obviously the statement needs to be taken with a pinch of salt but I throughly enjoyed reading the book. I leant it to someone in pakistan and forgot to get it back. Would dearly love to read it again.

I read the same about Liston's training for the second fight, Shah.

As to the books, I don't have the titles offhand, but there are a couple of fairly in depth ones covering Liston. I read one a few years ago, lent it to my son, never saw it again and I'm blowed if I can remember the title. Must call him to ask. All I remember is that it covered Patterson, Liston and Ali in good detail and had the word ' King ' somewhere in the title.

That's going to niggle me, now.

HumanWindmill wrote:I read the same about Liston's training for the second fight, Shah.

As to the books, I don't have the titles offhand, but there are a couple of fairly in depth ones covering Liston. I read one a few years ago, lent it to my son, never saw it again and I'm blowed if I can remember the title. Must call him to ask. All I remember is that it covered Patterson, Liston and Ali in good detail and had the word ' King ' somewhere in the title.

That's going to niggle me, now.

Windy suspect the book you refer to is King of the World by David Remnick, agree is excellent. There are a few Liston books out there, perhaps the most famous is Night Train by Nick Tosches. A lot of people love it but I found it over written and a bit pretensious. Rob Steen's Sonny Liston is better for my money. Bob Mee has also written one called Ali and Liston which is good but pretty much covers the same ground as the Remnick book so is a bit unnecessary and as Patterson features far more in King of the World it is by far the better buy.

rowley wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:I read the same about Liston's training for the second fight, Shah.

As to the books, I don't have the titles offhand, but there are a couple of fairly in depth ones covering Liston. I read one a few years ago, lent it to my son, never saw it again and I'm blowed if I can remember the title. Must call him to ask. All I remember is that it covered Patterson, Liston and Ali in good detail and had the word ' King ' somewhere in the title.

That's going to niggle me, now.

Windy suspect the book you refer to is King of the World by David Remnick, agree is excellent. There are a few Liston books out there, perhaps the most famous is Night Train by Nick Tosches. A lot of people love it but I found it over written and a bit pretensious. Rob Steen's Sonny Liston is better for my money. Bob Mee has also written one called Ali and Liston which is good but pretty much covers the same ground as the Remnick book so is a bit unnecessary and as Patterson features far more in King of the World it is by far the better buy.

Thank you kindly Jazzy Jeff.

That's the one, jeff.

Thanks for putting me out of my misery.

ShahenshahG wrote:Probably the first time around too Windy. Half fit and starting to get worked over, he surrended to his own pride rather than to Ali. Also, I was wondering if there was a book entitled Liston/Sonny or something like that. I seem to remember reading that Liston was the fittest he had ever been before Ali got ill and had to postpone the second fight. Was quite a comprehensive cover of Listons life - I think it was his wife and his trainer who were being quoted in that part. I distinctly remember the words, "broke Sonny's heart". Obviously the statement needs to be taken with a pinch of salt but I throughly enjoyed reading the book. I leant it to someone in pakistan and forgot to get it back. Would dearly love to read it again.

I've got to be honest with you, Liston although obviously draws some criticism for this but if this were a modern day fighter he would get torn to shreds like Mitchell was for not "Having perfect preparation" Hate to sound like I'm bashing the old guys but these are the kinds of things that they are seemingly allowed to get away with.

True but Liston was hated anyway - just less than Ali

I quit smoking and everybody was really supportive

I think we'd be lucky to see a modern heavyweight hit the scales as well trained a even a half fit Liston.

Say what you like about the Klitschko's but they at least come in in supreme shape.