who has the best chance in the WC out of the NH teams?

Ok so if all did go according to plan and Wales play Ireland in one quarter final with England against France in the other there'd be a NH route to the final

so i was just wondering from what we've seen so far who would you're money be on to make the final?

England have always done well at World Cups and they've once again got a chance to make the final and if they face France in the quarters im sure they would really fancy themselves to at least make the semis as they always seem to beat the frogs

I think this Welsh side is very young and talented, full of athletes capable of competeing with the best but with a lot to prove, they would fancy their chances against the Irish although they'd know that they'd have to be on top of their game, Ireland have a lot of old heads in their side and it would be a case of Youth vs Experience

France.. well if they turn up on the day against England and come away with a win they could go all the way, who knows? but their French anything could happen really

i would imagine for the Irish many of their great players over the years such as BOD, POC and ROG now know that this is their last chance to acheive at a World Cup so they will be desperate to go out with a bang where as possible Quarter final opponents Wales have many players just starting out on the international scene

I can't call it at all. Both QF's could go either way. Wales look very good I have to say. Ireland however showed a composure and ability to close out the game against Australia that Wales just lacked against SA.

England look in marginally better shape than France. However I would expect France to bounce back from the drubbing they took against the AB's and England struggled against the Pumas in their only tough game so far.

Again a SF would be really hard to call between any of the sides and they've all beaten each other in recent seasons.

England would be slight favourites as they've beaten the other 3 sides this season and will take confidence from that.

I think the form book from the group stages will go out the window come the KO stages though and it will come down to which side can hold their nerve and take their chances.

I agree with Rodders - it is very hard to call and you could easily see any of the games going either way.

Wales have shown a lot of talent, and great physicality, but there are still signs of some of the old failings there... I can see Wales being strangled by Ireland, particularly if our lineout doesn't function.

Good point re Drico POC et all however I don't think anything separates any of the top NH teams. It is a lottery really. Id fancy Ireland to beat Wales at home but in NZ it really could go either way. France on paper are much stronger than England but in reality England have the bragging rights and form.

So England to beat up the french and Wales to get smished (kiwi for smashed) by Ireland. Actually that might be what I hope happens.

Wales and Ireland game could go either way and if it comes off then the back row battle will be key and great to watch (hope Lydiates fit).

Priestland v Sexton would be good as well to young 10s.

England seem to have the voodoo sign over France but as we all know and say France are France then there is the Lievremont selection policy - does he have one

The side that can do enough and maintain consistency. Ireland are capable of raising their game but are they capable of maintaining it. France can beat anyone if they so desire but are capable of beating themselves as well. Wales look in good form but in a tight situation might lack mental strength. England are not playing neither well nor badly but know what they have to do to win. France are an enigma.

All are worth a shout as all are capable of winning. It´s one of the closest World Cups to call and that is a very good thing.

And then there is the Irish problem - in that we all know what they CAN do its just they have only done it twice in .. how long?

For the record I do think England are shaping up nicely, and in Manu we have one of the young players of the tournament.

There are seemingly a lot of posters on here who are in awe of the French. I'm really not convinced they're that all that great (on paper or otherwise).

I think it's likely to be an Ireland/England semi-final.

lost,

I agree Tuliagi is shaping up nicely but do England know who their next best centre option is.

From our POV I would def add North and Faletau in same bracket as youngsters of the tournament

Safeasmilk that's generally the Irish and Welsh supporters. No surprises there. Especially Ireland struggle with France.

Wales are playing well at the moment and there is a clear game plan with key players coming back to form. This season they beat both England and Ireland whilst playing poorly so every reason to be cautiously optimistic as they have shown well in all 3 games to date and a convincing win against Fiji will leave them feeling in good fettle. They will then fear no one which is a great turning point for a Wales team recently.

Ireland Wales = 50 50 (well, I would expect Ireland to win)

I hope England beat France in the other match but there is NO HOPE of that happening.

You have heard it here 1st. The French will run out easy winners.

SF of Ireland v France.

Repeat of 1987 final. Same result too.

Oh yeah- and Ireland to win in the 3rd 4th place play off against Boks!!!

Boyne wrote:

You have heard it here 1st. The French will run out easy winners.

Hardly. You've rolled that one out plenty of times already

Just because you've got an inferiority complex towards our gallic friends it doesn't mean we all think your way chum.

I don't think England are quite fit enough to win it, they look powerful but lack fitness in the pack, any team that are able to match them up front, but can also keep their energy to the end of the game will win.

France are in a mess, their players are arguing with their coach, neither do they respect him, and they know he is leaving after this world cup.
Their combinations are a mess also, with no part of the team settled. France have 1 big game and will hurt someone, probably England, but they are not better than England, Ireland or Wales.

Wales, we can be very proud of our players, however simply getting out of our pool is going to take a monumental effort. It is already having an effect, Shane Williams has a knock, Warburton has a minor knee injury, Hook and Lydiate may miss the next 2 games. Wales have probably already peaked, they could beat Ireland, but won't have enough left to win the semi final.
The Namibia fixture fell wonderfully for us, and has given our key players 2 weeks rest before the Fiji game.
However Fiji look shot of confidence with a terrible set piece, and if Wales start well, they could well put them to the sword.

Ireland are looking very sharp, but so many of their players are still off form, several players have stepped up to the challenge but many who should be doing better are off form, and not performing.
Everything for them could depend on how much they have to put into the Italy game a mere 6 days before the potential quarter final with Wales. The Italian pack is massive and very physical, beating them could be costly.

So for my 5th Paragraph... "who has the best chance in the WC out of the NH teams?" I think every game is a 50/50 game, they are all equal!

SafeAsMilk wrote:

Boyne wrote:

You have heard it here 1st. The French will run out easy winners.

Hardly. You've rolled that one out plenty of times already

Just because you've got an inferiority complex towards our gallic friends it doesn't mean we all think your way chum.

I rate them. I also rate England, but not as highly. Whats the issue? Can I not express an opinion? Oh and I honestly dont think that by beating Romania's 2md string that England have "turned the corner" (see BBC Sport for a larf)

Safeasmilk Boyne is praying he can get a prediction right just once. Will he? I doubt it.

Funny to see the Irish and Welsh fans (Boyne and Rubyguby) build up their sides.

We'll have to wait and see.

England have the world cup pedigree and are unbeaten so far in the world cup.

No issue at all Boyne. You keep on expressing that opinion as often as you want.

Beshocked, yup it appears they have short memories.

I'd go with Ireland. Lots of belief in the squad, key players finding form at the right time and that back row.

I think it'll be an England vs Ireland semi-final, with Ireland edging it.

I really hope Ireland and Wales meet in the QF. That'll be an absolute corker. Both sides have looked good this tournament.

England should beat France. Lievremont has made such a mess of things, and I think the French players know that they're poorly prepared. England's defence is strong, and Scotland will give their front five a good warm-up ahead of the QF.

God there is quite a lot of nonsense about the England team. Win a few games and it's the same old story they are world beaters again. By comparison to their last 7 years of mediocracy they have showed some form and consistency. Over night they are over rated again. Reality is they are no better in any way to France, Ireland or Wales all of whom could hand them a pounding on their day.

Obviously there are a few more results needed before we can be sure of the QF line-up (England losing to Scotland could throw a huge spanner in the works).

However, assuming England v France and Wales v Ireland, I'd reckon:

England should be fairly reasonable favourites against France. Recent history suggests we are a side they have trouble against, and they are in a mess courtesy of the Lievremont selection lottery. My concern though is that France are the one side that is always capable of playing one match where they are unbeatable.

I think Ireland will just be too smart for Wales, and will beat them in a similar way to their victory over Australia - stop the opponents playing and take the opportunity for points when they come. Expect Ireland to have a bit more success in attack though, as the Wales defence is not as good as the Aussies.

Semi final - well, I hope it isn't against Ireland, as they have been such a bogey side for England over the last 8 years (I'm ignoring the warm-up match, as I don't think either side was only interested in the result of that one). Close one to call, but I fear the quality of the Irish back row might just be too much for us (assuming 1F, SOB and Heaslip remain fit).

What Wales lack is belief. If they can beat Wales then they´ll be full of confidence and they have a nice balance of strong forwards, with a good scrum (albeit a shaky lineout sometimes), and a backrow that can steal ball and take the ball up strongly and centres (particularly Roberts) in great touch who are able to burst through with some pace out wide. That´s a nice balanced team. They just lack that mental strength and self belief if the game is tight.

Ireland have shown good form with some players - particularly in the pack and notably in the back row - and have some nice balance in the backs of experience and cutting edge. But there are still weaknesses to be exploited by smart opposition.

England have the advantage of experience in knockout rugby and know what they need to do to get through a game and close it out. Their discipline will be key as they can´t afford to let France into the game with easy kicks or be a man short through a sin binning.

France are their own worst enemy and need to find a way to gel as a team. If they get some confidence and some front foot ball they have a nice balance of finesse in the backs and power up front. They haven´t been in great form but one team who can re-write the form book is France.

leinsterbaby you haven't looked at the recent world rankings have you?

England are the 6 nations champions.

We have beaten every side in the 6 nations this year. No other side in the 6 nations can say that. We beat Wales and Ireland away, you beat us at your place.

It's arrogant of us to think we can beat sides we have beaten this year is it?

The team with the highest ranking, best win ratio of the 4 teams this year, the 6 nations champions and the side with the best record in the world cup surely must be the favourites. Oh and being currently unbeaten in the competition.

Is it arrogant to say that England should get further based on those facts?

I think England have the upper hand on France... why?

They have a 3-1 win record since the last world cup inc. this years 6N.
Are unbeaten in the competition thus far and probably will be up to the QF,
Will have greater support in the stadium (England fans always travel well),
Have a 3-0 win record in meaningful RWC matches against France.
JW should be playing (to the French this is important... he is the thorn in their side).

The French can beat anyone on their day but they seem to have a problem when they play England in an important crunch match.

Ireland look the better of the all celtic QF. When you look at the side they have better forwards overall IMO and an equally impressive backline. They also managed to surpass the mental barrier of actually beating a 3N team.

Mental toughness is so important in these matches. Like the French with the English, its all good being apparently better in most departments but if you can't deal with the mental aspect of the game... you will lose. Ireland passed this barrier... Wales baulked.

I'd predict a IRE vs. ENG semi and would probably give ENG the edge at the moment... purely out of experience of players like Moody, Thompson, Wilkinson, Tindall & coach Johnson in these unique situations. But given we're still not over with the pool matches a lot can change from here.... if this is the matchup... it will be one hell of a game though and no more than 10 points in it come the end.

beshocked wrote:leinsterbaby you haven't looked at the recent world rankings have you?

England are the 6 nations champions.

We have beaten every side in the 6 nations this year. No other side in the 6 nations can say that. We beat Wales and Ireland away, you beat us at your place.

It's arrogant of us to think we can beat sides we have beaten this year is it?

The team with the highest ranking, best win ratio of the 4 teams this year, the 6 nations champions and the side with the best record in the world cup surely must be the favourites. Oh and being currently unbeaten in the competition.

Is it arrogant to say that England should get further based on those facts?

Who cares about rankings. Ireland were ranked 4th prior to the warm up games. Team ranked 8 has beaten the 2nd ranked team already. I never said anything about arrogance. I said England team, media, fans etc. are getting carried away. I don't think England are that good really. I wouldn't be surprised if someone hands them out a pounding and sends them home.

From what I have seen, Ireland have shown the right balance and maturity to go all the way on that side of the draw so based on tournament form, I'd say Ireland.

Based on potential, England. Last 2 finals, 6 nations champs, ability to play above themselves in World cup knockouts (07 practically an understatement). Their pool form doesnt fully suggest finals material as they have a lot to work on but luckily for them they get a good testing against a desperate Scotland this weekend- perfect last pool game for them pre- quarters. A chance to lock in the final pieces.

Then France/ Wales. Same reasons as Kia for Wales- theres still a faint whisper in the ear of the players...'lose'...'lose'...'lose'... and they need to get rid of it altogether...

France are France... Scotland and Italy I don't think will qualify.

beshocked wrote:leinsterbaby you haven't looked at the recent world rankings have you?

England are the 6 nations champions.

We have beaten every side in the 6 nations this year. No other side in the 6 nations can say that. We beat Wales and Ireland away, you beat us at your place.

It's arrogant of us to think we can beat sides we have beaten this year is it?

The team with the highest ranking, best win ratio of the 4 teams this year, the 6 nations champions and the side with the best record in the world cup surely must be the favourites. Oh and being currently unbeaten in the competition.

Is it arrogant to say that England should get further based on those facts?

while that is true wales and ireland have also beaten england and england havent been playing aswell as they did during the 6nations (considering the tougher opposition at the 6n) so dont count your blessings yet, and you still have to beat the scots and i dont think they are exactly going to rollover and let england have an easy ride to the quarters

leinsterbaby wrote:I don't think England are that good really. I'm pant-wettingly desperate for someone to hand them out a pounding and send them home.

Fixed that for you.

If Scotland beat England, what do Argentina need to do to top the group? I guess the scots would need to deny England a bp?

An England NZ quarter is not impossible?

SafeAsMilk wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:I don't think England are that good really. I'm pant-wettingly desperate for Ireland to play they so inevitably they can hand them out a pounding and send them home.

Fixed that for you.

Cheers. By the way I will support England if they get to the final, I just don't think they are as good as the hype suggests. It's not just the Eng media. It seems much of the Aus and NZ media have them penciled in for the final already.

[quote="leinsterbaby"][quote="SafeAsMilk"]

leinsterbaby wrote:It seems much of the Aus and NZ media have them penciled in for the final already.

Purely on their knockout performances alone Leinster. All 5 of their non WCup exits were against SH teams and this time there are likely none in that side. The logic is compelling. Though France are in the same boat- 5 semis and two finals... hard to ignore...

It´s inevitable the media go back to previous RWC form given that there´s nothing in the matches. Fact is any of those 4 sides is capable of getting to the final.

Once you´re in the final, you´re worth a shout. But it´s probably not an exaggeration to say that whichever side makes it to the final, they would prefer their opposition is not NZ.

Leinsterbaby have you not read what Taylorman said?

Seriously what hype? Is it out of the question for the 6 nations champions to reach the final if they top the pool?

You get so carried away with Ireland beating Australia. England beat Australia home and away in their last two encounters. Hammered them in one.

The crucial thing is that Wales and Ireland both won their matches against England at home whereas England beat both away.

England were pretty rubbish in the 6 nations but still won.

I don't think Wales and Ireland are as good as the hype suggests. Neither could beat France in the 6 nations. Wales lost to South Africa. Wales have lost the last 3 out of 4 games vs England.

[quote="Taylorman"][quote="leinsterbaby"]

SafeAsMilk wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:It seems much of the Aus and NZ media have them penciled in for the final already.

Purely on their knockout performances alone Leinster. All 5 of their non WCup exits were against SH teams and this time there are likely none in that side. The logic is compelling. Though France are in the same boat- 5 semis and two finals... hard to ignore...

Yes but bar wilko it is a different team and management more or less from top to bottom. This England team is nowhere as good as the 03 team not even close. The 07 final appearance was very unexpected.

leinsterbaby wrote:It's not just the Eng media. It seems much of the Aus and NZ media have them penciled in for the final already.

The Aus and NZ media are just going on past World Cup experience. England have done it before. Ireland's previous World Cup form is a bad joke. Not unreasonable of of the media to assume the same will happen again. I get the impression that their knowledge of European rugby isn't great. I don't think the Heineken Cup or the 6 Nations are widely watched. And there's generally a greater respect for the English team down South because they have beaten them down there and won a World Cup down there.

A lot was made of the supposed arrogance of Australian pundits in the lead up to the Irish game and a lack of respect for the Irish team. But Ireland had done little to earn any respect in the sh. We hadn't won a game down there since the 1979, when we beat Australia twice I think. We'd only won two games of rugby in New Zealand ever. And neither were against test teams. During this World Cup our team can change the attitude of the southerners towards Irish rugby. We've already beaten Australia. A run to the final would result in the nz and aussie media being happy enough to give us the plaudits we deserve. A bunch of Triple Crowns and one 6 Nations win in Europe doesn't really wash with them. They believe they're superior. We have to get big results in their back yard to make them respect us. And we're on our way to doing that hopefully.

England are going out in the QF - whether against France or NZ. FACT. END OF.

You got to be in it to win it,,, Everybody has a chance just some more than others

England Ireland and Wales all have key players and injuries in our next game could change everything.
I'm glad Wales used the fringe players today they performed well even if it was against one of the weaker sides.

Well Said Feckless Rogue, punch those SH lads in the nose hard enough and often enough and they will HAVE to listen.

Only thing is then an ambush is hard to pull off, they'll know what makes you tick.

Disrespect England at your own peril , they're a team with champion pedigree coached by a WC winner , you can be rest assured when the time comes England will stand up to be counted ..like they did in 91 , 03 and 07 .

npot being biaesd but england have improved again at the right time and have the pedegree- anyone that underestimates england are foolish.

but all the same wales and ireland look very good, better than in previous world cups

france not so- however we know that they could pull a win of any of us- but id never bet on them to do two on the spin.

France will beat England.

Wales will beat Ireland.

Wales will beat France.

All Blacks will beat Wales in the final.

Clear as anything.

clear as mud that one

I can't call it either
Ireland should surely beat Wales on surge of Aussie victory but if Wales play anything like they did v SA I would say Wales.
England always produce at RWC and with france in disarray in camp the smart money is on them. But France are France and you just don't know.

I go Wales and england

Funny thread this one - there's actually nothing between these 4 teams - Pedigree counts for fxck all IMO and should be kept for describing dogs. Pedigree, form blah blah blah - If they were the key factors then the All Blacks would have won the last 5 world cups. Every fan of those nations has a right to be optimistic and the rest is just an individual opinion, not a fact.

PS - Have England already finished their 2011 RWC DVD - It will look good alongside the Grand Slam one

England if they get to the quarters will beat France. They will simply strangle the French. However they still have to get past the scots, They should do it with somethingto spare but a hurt scotland in blustery conditions with rain forecast is somthing that should scare every English Rugby fan. However, I think they will come a cropper to one of the celtic nations in this tournament.

Ireland have simply not been consistent this summer, They were poor in teh warmups, gave an awesome forward display against the ozzies but have been unconvincing in victory against the USA, clinical against the russians. A wales Ire QF is close to call but I think Ireland will lose that one. But then I would say that wouldnt I. Winner of Wales vs Ireland will make the final.

Scotland have one chance, play out of their skins against the English and knock them out of their stride, get in their faces with a rush defence and hope the English lose composure. Argentina should get the bonus point tho which makes this game really interesting. Even if the scots win they will go out in the quarters.

France are falling apart, Lievremont is just way out there, he still doesnt know his best team, they are arging amongst themselves and seem riddled with self doubt. The romantic in me says that these are the times the French turn it on and do somthing special but honestly with a pragmatic Rugby head on I dont think they have it in them.

Wales as long as they dont implode against Fiji or get stitched up by the Boks will be in a very good place for the quarters. Beating Fiji and Samoa will have exorcised some ghosts for Wales, they have some talented youngsters bursting through and some experienced old heads to keep feet on the ground. They seem tyo be hitting a good run of form and will be a real handful for the Irish. I think they will win the quarter final.

Following Englands magnificent achievements this year, there is only one word to sum everything up.... Lucky!

Now lets get back to dreaming about that Wales V New Zealand final with us probably losing 49-0 like the last time we played them in the World Cup!

France are at their most dangerous when they are falling apart and looking clueless - be careful you've ben warned

Alyn last time we played them it was a classic even though we lost 53-37. Game of the 2003 tournament imo

"If they were the key factors then the All Blacks would have won the last 5 world cups"



in recent times NZ have form but not pedegree, thats the difference.

pedegree is about having experienced players- players/coaches that are in the side that have done it before.

Sadly the only thing that NZ players can feed from previous world cups is a feeling of letting people down and choking.

Nopw that wont stop them turning the corner they are just so good at the game to not. But it is the only hope other nations have-- The fact they dont have pedegree in world cups.

TycroesOsprey wrote:Alyn last time we played them it was a classic even though we lost 53-37. Game of the 2003 tournament imo

Yeah but we have't beaten them since 1953