Rugby Divers

First topic message reminder :

After watching H Brussouw tonight and Yachvilly(sp) against J Kaino the other evening, i think its time players should be cited for that type of behaviour. Im not talking about whether what happened to them was illegal or not, that is not the point. This diving has been creeping into our game for a while and is very depressing- are we going to become like football soon? Brussouw was 'struck in the face' yes, but by a flat hand and it was really a push, going down like that was bad enough but the crying to the ref is even worse. Yachvilly the other night reminded me of Rivaldo. This isnt only targeted at those 2 players, they have just been 2 recent examples. If this behaviour was stamped out by IRB surely it would benefit the game, and would be welcomed by the rugby community?

I agree it´s got no place in the game - let´s not get into the perpetrators as I haven´t watched the game today. I did see Weird Al Yankovilly respond to a Kaino elbow in a theatrical way. Not excusing Kaino but don´t like seeing people milk a penalty or pretend something happened when it did not.

It ain´t cricket and it ain´t rugby.

There's another worrying trend I've noticed which is related to this, which is "playing possum" in NZ terms.

The referee is required to stop the game immediately if there is a serious injury.

I noticed in both the NZ v FRA game, and also again today in SA v SAM that there were incidences where a team had quick ball behind the defensive line where a member of the defending team lies prone near the ruck motionless.

Suspiciously, shortly after the ref pulls up play, the player does a brief bit of ham acting. Stagger, stagger, shakes head, rubs eyes, and jogs back to position.

Play then resumes from a scrum with a set defensive line.

I think the rule should be that if play is stopped on your behalf, you have to leave the field and come back on at the *next* stop in play.

If you are talking about hougaard, he did leave the field.

But Samoa restarted from a scrum - hardly their strong suit in the game.

come on ghost, how else should the game restart. apart from the fact that they were 5 meters out, they were hardly running at unorganised defence.

Will you say sorry once we have confirmation that hougaard is out for the rest of the world cup with concussion?

Ok, ok, fair enough. In this case it might not have been an example of what I'm talking about.

But in the France/AB match it certainly was a premeditated attempt to get the game stopped.

We saw something similar from Genia (or was it Beale?) in one of the games prior to the 3N (I'm getting old, can't remember which one), where he lay prone until the ball was kicked towards him, at which point he jumped up and ran 40 meters with it beating half a dozen defenders.

Seems like it's becoming illegal to criticise any South African player on these boards.

Yes Paul Williams was very much in the wrong for holding Brussow back and for striking him in the face, the card was the right choice.

However, this card would have been awarded without Brussow attempting a Tom Daley-esq dive. If that wasn't a dive, from one of the hardest men, in one of the hardest teams in the world, then either Paul Williams is superman in disguise or Brussow replaced by a helium balloon replica at half time.

Yes, you are correct Heinrich Brussow is a sissy, there feel better.

He took a dive from the 10 meter diving platform.

And no it is not illegal it is tiring.

when we do something closely resembling thuggery we never hear the end of it.

When we are being struck, hit kicked or anything in that manner we are supposed to stand tall and firstly not retaliate ( as that constitues thuggery) and dare not fall over ( as that is seen as acting)

Go suck a lemon.

every f...n game there is a reason why we don't deserve to win.

Against wales we were lucky

against Fiji the opposition was poor

against Namibia we were told they can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

And now we aren't allowed to be struck and fall over.

pathetic.


We must be the most undeserved and lucky log leaders ever in pool D

Haha well I'm glad we agree, even if only under slightly exaggerated circumstances.

I think most people are letting go of the "SA are thugs" tag, it's just over defensive SA fans that keep bringing it up, in fact i've seen a lot more "Pacific Islanders are thugs" comments hovering around lately. After all, this thread is more about Brussow being a sissy than a thug.

And of course SA are going to get criticised at every oppertunity, they're one of the best teams in the world, that's why people will keep picking. Take the publicity as a compliment but also learn to take as well as you give (not directly to yourself but i've seen a lot of criticism coming from SA fans in general).

I generally take it from wence it comes, and as far as taking what you are giving.

Not sure how to respond to that as I give credit where it is due and as a neutral will be objective about other teams.

I didn't see today's incident. I think that if you hit a guy in the face you should be off the pitch. Also if a player is hit,I don't think it's diving. It is "simulation" as the Americans call it.

Biltong bru though you knew the status quo already . the Boks cannot win and be congratulated without someone whinging that the other team was better.It never happens there's always a reason why we shouldnt have won . I've come to accept that and hence never pass up the opportunity to remind people the only team that deserves to win is the one that puts more points on the board end of story.

biltongbek wrote:Yes, you are correct Heinrich Brussow is a sissy, there feel better.

He took a dive from the 10 meter diving platform.

You have to admit it is rather amusing that this guy can burrow into a ruck and take the full weight of several counter ruckers and yet goes down like an Essex girl when he gets a tickle on the chin

By the way, you guys did look like losing it for a bit but your defence was staggering. I have never seen Boks have such little possession, not even sure they got into opp 22 in the 2nd half. Best pull your socks up by semi as you have to stop the Blacks!

biltongbek wrote:And no it is not illegal it is tiring.

when we do something closely resembling thuggery we never hear the end of it.

When we are being struck, hit kicked or anything in that manner we are supposed to stand tall and firstly not retaliate ( as that constitues thuggery) and dare not fall over ( as that is seen as acting)

Go suck a lemon.

C'mon Biltong, every team has their pantomime cliche

South Africa are thugs who rely entirely on the up and under
NZ are chokers who cheat and poach pacific islanders
England play 10 man rugby and are full of foreigners
Australia are devious but can't scrum
Scotland can't score a try
Ireland are the nearly men who never quite make it
Wales can beat anyone on their day, but it's never their day, aside from which they're too lateral and it's the coach's fault.
France are erratic and are either brilliant or shocking, with no middle ground.
Italy have a formidable front row but no backs
ALL of the Pacific Island teams can only run the ball and put in big hits, but have no discipline, are unfit and have no set piece.

Amongst that lot, just being labelled thugs occasionally is actually quite a compliment.

Ghost, did you cut and paste that from wikipedia. Wonderfully accurate.

Highly accurate stuff GreyGhost, you should add "it's the referees fault" for Wales though....maybe for the All blacks too

And maybe "All referees hate England". That bit's true. No really it is

I love listening to Welsh people after they've just lost.

Classic was the 2007 game, where Wales held NZ to 19-12. In the dying stages Alun Wyn Jones stole an intercept pass, and with Mils part of the attacking formation, had an unopposed run to the line.

You could hear the disbelieving welsh jaws hit the seats all around the park, and Jones himself looked left, then right, then right, then left like a long sighted crossing guard, searching for the unseen AB defender who was NOWHERE near him. The hand of history beckoned him into a line of all time Welsh rugby heroes aside legends such as JPR Williams, Mervyn Davies and Barry John.

Unfortunely Jones seemed to stop to shake it, clipped his feet together like Dorothy and half tackled himself on the 22. Carter arrived on the scene as he was half way down and stripped the ball. The game was lost.

After the game I heard disgruntled Welsh supporters complaining "What the hell is wrong with our coaches? Do they not devote any training time to what to do when you get a break away with an open try line? Look at Habana, when he gets an intercept, he knows just what to do."

I swear, it's a true story.

That was 2009 or 08 wasn't it (no AI in 2007, except South Africa for Wales)

Good god, you are right. I'm two years older than I thought. Suddenly that hair line isn't looking nearly as bad as I thought.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Good god, you are right. I'm two years older than I thought. Suddenly that hair line isn't looking nearly as bad as I thought.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Good god, you are right. I'm two years older than I thought. Suddenly that hair line isn't looking nearly as bad as I thought.

biltongbek wrote:

GangGreen wrote:Brussow was within his rights to try and free himself but clouting Williams around the head was going abit too far, if Williams had grabbed his face as he was on the receiving end of more than 1 'strike to the face' the boks would have been going mad about him buying a decision, but because it was a big bad Samoan that pussed Brussow it was the right decision? Rubbish!
Brussow went down like a sack of sh_ t and bought that red card, yellow it should have been, red card, no chance

So you are now the expert on how Brussow should have gone down. I would like to know how he bought that red card.

He was hit, went down, got onto his knees, Owens stopped the game came walking over, Brussow looked at him, said two words(can't lipread) and walked away.

I do not understand why this is an issue. I agree the red card was harsh, but that was not up to brussow, that was up to the NH assistant referee.

Please watch it again and instead of thinking this is yet another shot you can take at a south african rugby player, be objective.

I can see that this is what you felt when i wrote it, but like i tried to say it really isnt directed at your player or S.A, i think Brussouw is a fantastic player, and i have the upmost respect for Springbok rugby. It just so happened that that was on last night and was still peed off after Yachvilly, and have been seeing it for quite along time from all teams. I have watched a few times and we obviously wont agree on him diving-fair enough-but its not really the point, forget that incident, what about other diving/falling over/waving hands/simulation incidents?

To be honest, I am momentarily peeved of at the rugby world, so don't really care.

woke up this moring having to read that our best back line player is out of the world cup, and last night having read on Rugby heaven, stuff.nz at how unlucky the samoans are and that Owens gave SA all the benefit of the doubt and we were once again lucky to win and blah blah blah.

so mate, i really don't give a s...t at the moment.

biltongbek wrote:To be honest, I am momentarily peeved of at the rugby world, so don't really care.

woke up this moring having to read that our best back line player is out of the world cup, and last night having read on Rugby heaven, stuff.nz at how unlucky the samoans are and that Owens gave SA all the benefit of the doubt and we were once again lucky to win and blah blah blah.

so mate, i really don't give a s...t at the moment.

biltongbek, my first experience of the old site was the 1000+ posts article complaining about England being in the 2007 final. There was another smaller one complaining they were in the semi. Apparently they were rubbish and didn't deserve it.

It's just because the jealous of our awesomeness

biltongbek wrote:To be honest, I am momentarily peeved of at the rugby world, so don't really care.

woke up this moring having to read that our best back line player is out of the world cup, and last night having read on Rugby heaven, stuff.nz at how unlucky the samoans are and that Owens gave SA all the benefit of the doubt and we were once again lucky to win and blah blah blah.

so mate, i really don't give a s...t at the moment.

And yet Biltong, you're up at 4.30a.m. presumably watching the cup and posting on a RWC thread...

It's great to have the Boks with us at a RWC in NZ finally, and I for one believe they've looked intimidating. You have the depth to go all the way despite your injuries and I'm looking forward to meeting SA in the semi final.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

c_b_g_b_OSP wrote:I've just got to ask. When has Lee Byrne dived? It might well be the old rose tinted glasses being an Osp and Welsh fan, but I can't remember seeing him dive?!?

Sorry i forgot about that sniper on the grassy knoll

So you can't think of a time either then Peter?

c_b_g_b_OSP wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

c_b_g_b_OSP wrote:I've just got to ask. When has Lee Byrne dived? It might well be the old rose tinted glasses being an Osp and Welsh fan, but I can't remember seeing him dive?!?

Sorry i forgot about that sniper on the grassy knoll

So you can't think of a time either then Peter?

End of the Wales Scotland game, you know the one where he either dived or was shot by a mystery gun man.